Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ressurrector 01-09-06, 02:59 PM	So, I write up a chaotic/good Warlock, and the DM approves the class and so-forth. Then he pulls me aside and asks me if I could play an Evil Warlock, since it would fit with what he's planning in the campaign. He says that if it dosen't work out, I can just change back to Good with no penalties. The rest of the party is Neutral and Good. So, I was thinking of playing Lawful/Evil and going along with most things through enlightened self-intrest. Then mabye playing the evil part when the opportunity presents itself. I'm figuring that the DM may have my character indentured to some kind of Demon or Devil (or give the option). So, anyone have any suggestions on how to play this character? I've never played an Evil character before, and doing it in a non-evil group makes it even harder.
phelanarcetus 01-09-06, 03:24 PM	Let's see... As far as D&D is concerned, Evil means selfish, primarily. And likely not too trusting, even if you're lawful. After all, if you're selfish, it colors your view of the people around you. They're probably selfish too. Of course, you're intelligent as well as evil, and aware that your worldview doesn't mesh very well with that of your erstwhile allies. So you're going to be concealing your selfishness somewhat. When the party is negotiating the fee or reward for doing something, you should be pushing for more reward. After all, you're putting your hide on the line... so you'd better get a good payment for it. And your services are in demand... but you control the supply. Sure, the good characters want to make sure they don't take so much that the village can't feed itself this year, but do you really care? No. At least some of the payment up front. When it comes to enemies, you can be ruthless. Mercy? For the weak. Let them live, they'll just come back and you'll need to beat them again. Taking prisoners back? Only if it's in the contract - otherwise it's a waste of effort. You may want to disguise your evil by a strong adherence to law and contracts, and a generally distrustful nature. Sure you "want" to believe these guys, but you've just been burned too many times. You and another party member are both nearly dead, and you have a wand of cure light wounds? Use it on yourself... if he's still alive next round, you can see about him. No alignment-related qualms about looting the dead, or anything like that. Got a magical item that's at least a little evil? Doesn't mean it has to be destroyed - a tool is a tool. (I was in a game where the spell Death Knell was ruled to be evil, this is a good example.) Need information from a captive? Well, your allies might suggest bribery, but you can suggest torture or dominate or some invasive use of telepathy.
ressurrector 01-09-06, 03:39 PM	Let's see... As far as D&D is concerned, Evil means selfish, primarily. And likely not too trusting, even if you're lawful. After all, if you're selfish, it colors your view of the people around you. They're probably selfish too. Of course, you're intelligent as well as evil, and aware that your worldview doesn't mesh very well with that of your erstwhile allies. So you're going to be concealing your selfishness somewhat. When the party is negotiating the fee or reward for doing something, you should be pushing for more reward. After all, you're putting your hide on the line... so you'd better get a good payment for it. And your services are in demand... but you control the supply. Sure, the good characters want to make sure they don't take so much that the village can't feed itself this year, but do you really care? No. At least some of the payment up front. When it comes to enemies, you can be ruthless. Mercy? For the weak. Let them live, they'll just come back and you'll need to beat them again. Taking prisoners back? Only if it's in the contract - otherwise it's a waste of effort. You may want to disguise your evil by a strong adherence to law and contracts, and a generally distrustful nature. Sure you "want" to believe these guys, but you've just been burned too many times. You and another party member are both nearly dead, and you have a wand of cure light wounds? Use it on yourself... if he's still alive next round, you can see about him. No alignment-related qualms about looting the dead, or anything like that. Got a magical item that's at least a little evil? Doesn't mean it has to be destroyed - a tool is a tool. (I was in a game where the spell Death Knell was ruled to be evil, this is a good example.) Need information from a captive? Well, your allies might suggest bribery, but you can suggest torture or dominate or some invasive use of telepathy. I like the way you think, this sounds like a good way to play evil, and yet not screw up the group.
Titan W 01-09-06, 03:42 PM	I happen to be in the exact same situation (More of my own will). "We do not ask for your poor or your hungy. We do not want your tired or your sick. It is your corrupt we claim. It is your evil that will be saught by us. with every breath we shall hunt them down. Each day we will spill their blood 'till it rains down from the skies. Do not kill, no not ****, do not steal. These are pricipals which every man can embrace. These are not polite suggestions. They are codes of behavior and those of you who ignore them will pay the dearest cost. There are varying degrees of evil. We are do lesser far from filth. Do not to push the bounds and cross into true corruption, into our domain. For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see we three. And on that day you will reap it. And we will send you to wahtever god you wish." ((Cookes to whoever know what movie that's from)) I think that describes the type of Evil that a good party could tolerate. Not so much the "I kill anyone who gets in my way" But the select destruction of other evil without morality or mercy. Any who defile that which you stand to pretect will be slaughtered in the most painful way without mercy. No matter how much they beg they will faill to your blade. And if they are lucky, they will die quickly. That's how I plan on playing my character, not so much evil in that they desire to destroy life and gain power though slaughter, but that they have no mercy for anyone who dare trusspass upon their moral grounds. Uncairing for those who commit any true crimes. (Very much lawful, and very much evil)
Gedrin 01-09-06, 04:16 PM	Just for the sake of caution, I'd try to get some more info from the DM about why he wants you to be the only evil character among a party of good characters.
ressurrector 01-09-06, 04:19 PM	Just for the sake of caution, I'd try to get some more info from the DM about why he wants you to be the only evil character among a party of good characters. Yes I'm trying to get info, but I'm guessing it has something to do with contracting some sort of evil outsider.
Templetroll 01-09-06, 07:25 PM	Yes I'm trying to get info, but I'm guessing it has something to do with contracting some sort of evil outsider. At which point you're outed as evil and then... How do you think the rest of the party will react to that revelation? Instead of possibly roleplaying dealing with an evil outsider they will be dealing with you.
ressurrector 01-09-06, 07:41 PM	At which point you're outed as evil and then... How do you think the rest of the party will react to that revelation? Instead of possibly roleplaying dealing with an evil outsider they will be dealing with you. I'm guessing it would be hidden, and behind the scenes. As far as the party should ever be concerned I'm netural. I'm not going to play stupid evil, I'm not going to let it out that he dosen't give a darn about anyone else unless I'm sure it can't bite me in the ass.
Feor 01-09-06, 09:21 PM	I'm not going to play stupid evil, I'm not going to let it out that he dosen't give a darn about anyone else unless I'm sure it can't bite me in the ass. First Rule: It can always bite you in the ass. But that's half the fun of roleplaying an evil character in a good party. :)
ressurrector 01-09-06, 09:28 PM	First Rule: It can always bite you in the ass. But that's half the fun of roleplaying an evil character in a good party. :) Make that fairly sure :D
Draith 01-09-06, 10:13 PM	There's more freedom in playing evil than good since you can perform acts of good without sacrificing your "principles". One good way to play evil is to slowly corrupt everyone by appealing to an aspect of what they believe in and twist it in a way that is advantageous to you. Paladins for example adhere strongly to law, appeal to that strict adherence. Help them strengthen that belief in law until it supersedes their belief in good.
Bellator_33 01-10-06, 04:02 AM	try to get all the neutral characters if not evil but leaning towards it. you know, tell them that a captured enemy has said they will kill you all in your sleep. Just keep pushing to get the party as sinister as possible. maybe even get them in a situation where they have to fight good people e.g. on the run from the law. Of course, my first thought was how do you know the dm hasn't told other members in the party to be evil too, and you could all gang up on any paladins.
Elemental_Elf 01-10-06, 04:18 AM	Of course, my first thought was how do you know the dm hasn't told other members in the party to be evil too, and you could all gang up on any paladins. For that matter, how do we know each member of the party has not been told to be evil and just pretend to be good/neutral! Paladins of Slaughter disguised as Paladins of Honor. Clerics of Nerull hiding behind the veil of Pelor. Yes much corruption can occur because of this! Ohh and are you sure your character isn't going to become a Acolyte(sp?) of the Skin? That requires the summoning of a Demon... Meh prolly not but w/e, lol.
Salookanana 01-10-06, 04:35 AM	I would try to turn your party to evil, or atleast hating paladins. Try spinning a tale of woe how your family (which was probably as evil as you) was slain by palidins, which drove you to near madness, and generally harp on about their controlling nature. If you want to have an evil PC the way I like it, have him slow to make friends, but once they are made, will treat them well and will mercillessly kill for them. Even if not asked to do so. And remember- mercy is for losers! Charity is for monks. Only paladins care about the greater good. Whats in it for YOU?
JD 01-10-06, 06:02 AM	[big ol' quote] It's been a while since I've seen it, but it sounds like Boondock Saints? Anyway, I've just drawn up a character that I think many people would consider evil. I wasn't intending for him to go that way; I just realised while making him that all of my previous characters were heroic in some way. My aim was to create a character who wasn't heroic or self-sacrificing in any way whatsoever. I made him, in essence, a corrupt cop who was forced to flee his hometown after bungling a scam to raid the town's treasury. After a while I took a step back and said to myself, "Hang on, this guy's a bit evil." He's going to be fun to play. Remember that evil characters can have friends too, ressurrector, even if they are of differing alignments. True, you may disagree a lot (depending on how subtle you are), but if you're continually saving each other in combat that can forge a bond that goes beyond such things.
Millennium 01-10-06, 07:13 AM	If you're not comfortable playing Evil, then you shouldn't play Evil. Barring that, here are some atypically-Evil (but undeniably Evil, at least by D&D morality standards) characters and concepts that you might consider using as points of reference: Albel Nox from Star Ocean: Until the End of Time is cool, and by cool I mean totally sweet. He's also Chaotic Evil to the core, yet he's not a mindless destroyer. If Margaret Thatcher and Freedy Kruger got together in the most visually-horrific love scene ever to sully the mind of humanity, Albel would be the resulting child. Despite this, he manages to work decently (if not exceptionally) as part of a team, and he actually gets a fair amount of screen time to explain his philosophy. Almost any protagonist from the works of Ayn Rand would be considered Lawful Evil under D&D's morality system (Anthem being the major exception, where I'd say the protagonist is more like Chaotic Neutral). If you're going to go down this route, I'd suggest Atlas Shrugged; it's one of her longest works, but also one of the easiest to stomach if you don't agree with her philosophy. Avoid The Fountainhead if you've never read anything by her before. Steve Jobs is Neutral Evil. Don't worry, Mac fans, I'm a Mac fan too, but let's face it: he just is. In D&D terms he'd be like a Neutral Evil Bard20 focusing on oratory or something.
DarkWarriorKarg 01-10-06, 07:46 AM	Lex Luthor, from Smallville, is a nice example of Lawful Evil. His father is Neutral Evil
BadCatMan 01-10-06, 08:07 AM	I think the first thing to do would be to announce to the other players, with the DM present, "Hey guys, I made a Warlock, but [DM] wants him to be evil. I think he's got something planned. I went with Lawful Evil." That way, if your character does have to be a bastard about something, they'll know that its your character (and the DM), and not in fact you yourself being a bastard. Or if you don't want to be evil, Just Say No To Evil.
9JACK9 01-10-06, 11:17 AM	To be honest, there's nothing wrong with playing an evil character, ress. From a roleplaying aspect, it's actually really a challange, to be willing to create a character that differs so much from the ones we usually all play. The best part, the one that you can fall back on, is that if you really find yourself not comfortable with it, you DM said that you can go back to Good if you want, right? "No penalties"? I definatly aggree with phelanarcetus, on pretty much all accounts. Maybe with the exception of this: Instead of Lawful Evil, give Neutral Evil a try. I don't know how you created your character before, and I'm not going to try and tell you how you should play him, but this is a pretty good "on the fence" alignment that gives you a lot of room to work in... You could play him any number of ways, but one that works well is the "Silent, unfeeling, outsider route". (Please note that this does not translate to "Angsty, goth, wanna-be-drow route" in any way, shape, or form.) If you are, infact, following the "Complete Arcane" defination of a Warlock, then your character could very well have a demonic heritage, and evil could very well JUST BE a part of his nature, a nearly-untraceable taint of evil left over from when a devil or demon touched his bloodline... diluted by generations and generations of his family, but still there, after all these years. If I where you, I'd play this to the hilt! Who can say what even a small bit of demonic corruption can have on someone? I'd make it so that he's almost cursed, not really all that Lawful, or all that Chaotic, but just totally unable to tell right from wrong. A small part of his sub-concious replaced with a demon's will, giving him a sick, morbid instinct. "Oh, brigands ran into that farmhouse? Ok, we'll just throw a torch through the window, light the house on fire. That way, when they come out the front door, the fighter can cut em' down. Ranger, if they try and open a window, think you can pick em' off from here?" The good news is, NOBODY in your party is going to approve this plan. But it will help instill a feeling that your character isn't all that wonderful of a person, and the Neutral aspect of his personality will be ok with "Hearing the Paladins plan" before lighting a torch. By all means, it's totally up to you. But if you want a roleplaying challange, evil's the way to go.
High Octane 01-10-06, 11:27 AM	Lawful Evil. There is no good or evil. There is strong, and there is weak. It is the destiny of the strong to rule over the weak, or destroy them if they refuse. It matters not if you think I am right, my strength MAKES me right. Everything exists in an order of subserviance, a food chain. My power proves that destiny has chosen a place of power for me. Law exists to protect this order of things. Without this order, things would not be the way they should be. To protect this law and order of things, any means that are efficient are necessary. The ends justify the means.
grelna 01-19-06, 03:36 AM	LE is definitely the way to go if you want to roleplay someone from the dark side and not end up with dead PCs littering the countryside. I almost always play good, but when I do play evil, I try to pick character traits that cause the party to feel that they can rely on my character, without actually trying to hide my alignment. For instance: 1) Your word is your bond. If you say you'll do something, you'll do it or die trying. However, if success requires the sacrifice of innocents, you rationalize that it's for the "greater good." You feel nothing but contempt for others who lack your total commitment. 2) You pay your debts, always. If you owed someone 2 copper, you'd take insult after insult from them until you could repay them, at which time you'd toss the coppers onto their bloody corpse. 3) You consider Good to be fine, for soppy idealists who don't understand the way the real world works. Fortunately for the soppy idealists in the party (the other players), you are there to get them out of the trouble their fluffy-bunny worldviews get them into. 4) You lack empathy. If someone demands sympathy from you, you say "cry me a river," or something equally sensitive. However, you take a brutal revenge on anyone who harms any of your friends, even if the revenge is totally disproportionate to the offense. 5) Most of the time, you are just as invested in taking out the bad guys as the rest of the party, whether out of interest in a reward or sheer moral outrage (just because you're evil doesn't mean that you don't draw the line somewhere), but occasionally you may startle the rest of the party by wondering aloud if the bad guys might not have a good thing going that it'd be good to get in on. Although he isn't LE, one fine example of an evil character in a good party is Jayne, from the show Firefly (I'd put him at NE, myself). He's one of my favorite characters, specifically because his worldview clashes so comically with the worldview of the rest of the crew.
Lady Maedhros 01-19-06, 05:28 AM	Jayne is totally CN, don't know what you're talking about. Evil in that corner of the jossverse is more like, say, Nishka. But i'd say yeah, the most important thing you can do is find out exactly what your DM has going, because he might be planning on party conflict, using you for a betrayal or a plotline, or something like that. In which case, you're going to want to set your character up completely differently than if you plan to simply be a party member, but evil. If it *is* just a matter of being a party member, but evil, such that you truly feel that these guys are your mates and you'll look out for them, but your past and methods come back to haunt you and your entire party, then there have been some really good suggestions upthread. But if your DM wants you to sell out your party, you're going to have a very different looking character. AND REMEMBER! Detect evil does not detect anyone who's evil! It detects only priests, blackguards, undead and outsiders until very high character levels! Make sure your DM remembers that or your career will be real short and ugly.
9JACK9 01-19-06, 09:17 AM	AND REMEMBER! [i]Detect evil does not detect anyone who's evil! It detects only priests, blackguards, undead and outsiders until very high character levels! I'm gonna disagree with you, Lady Maedhros... wouldn't a human being fall under the "Evil Creature" catagory of "Detect Evil"? Meaning that from level 10 down, he's show up as "faint"? Granted, Undead and Demons glow like a hotlamp, but you can still pick up Owlbears, goblins, and mindflayers with it, albet faintly, so wouldn't humans fall in there, too? Not that it matters, anyway: "Good guys can't throw the first punch." Even if the paladin DID detect evil, like some of them are want to do, and the warlock DOES show up as evil, what can the paladin do? Nothing. "Being evil" isn't a crime. Commiting them is. Look at grelna's examples. Word for word, only #1 and #2 of those 5 are real "evil" acts. #2 isn't even a evil act if instead of killing him, you spit on the coins and throw them at the guy's feet. What, the paladin's gonna smite you for saying "cry me a river?" He can't! So long as there is an alternative to violence, the paladin has to try another way. When all other methods and possiblities have been exhuasted, then he (or she) can finally resort to violence. The only way the game could get "real short and ugly" is if the paladin player refuses to let his character play with an evil character in it, based on the "Paladin's dont consort with evil in any way, shape, or form" creed. you take a brutal revenge on anyone who harms any of your friends, even if the revenge is totally disproportionate to the offense. *cough* *cough* Ok, so... maybe the END of #4 is evil. So sue me. 3 outa 5 ain't bad, right? Who's with me? Anybody? Anybody? *crickets chirp* But regardless, just because your character is willing to do something like that, dosn't mean he HAS done it. And THAT makes all the difference in the D&D world. (Except in the case of dragons, who you can kill according to color. And undead, who are obviously evil, for some reason or another. And goblins, because the Monster Manual says they're evil. And manticore, and troll, etc... etc...)
Minauros 01-19-06, 09:53 AM	Well I'm interested to know what your DM has up his sleeve! As mentioned already, it could have a bearing on how you devise your character. If he is angling for a betrayal, you would want to be with the party because they are tools to make you stronger and safer. If he wants a morality play, maybe they're actually your best friends. Good guys seem to have a hair-trigger for the evil though, so tread lightly. However, that said, I love Grelna's suggestions for playing evil within a party, and will be incorporating some of them into my own game. I think personally that the most important thing you need is a reason to be with that good group in a functional, cooperative capacity. Come up with that, combined with the other, excellent advice you have already gotten here, and you will have a fun and exciting character to play.
kraegor 01-19-06, 01:28 PM	3 types of Evil Characters: Evil for enjoyment. They just love being evil. They love feeling the rush as they pummel someone in a dark alley. Or they love the thrill of stealing and greed. Whatever thier thrill, they love it. Evil for necessity. Desperation, inspiration, or just plain madness. This character doesn't quite like doing evil, but is forced to because of his situation. His demon master commands it, or he believes every outsider that comes to his village needs to die before they spread thier heathen religion to his people. Etc.. this character is always in conflict with himself. Evil for insanity. These people are the worst. They have no scruples, no honor. They will slit your throat one minute and drink wine with you the next. (yes, the order of that happening is correct). They bathe in the blood of thier enemies, take trophies of thier victims, etc. These people cannot tell the difference between right and wrong. They might love children and be kind and donate to the orphanages, but at the same time, they are the ones that are creating the orphans.
ressurrector 01-19-06, 05:49 PM	But if your DM wants you to sell out your party, you're going to have a very different looking character. AND REMEMBER! Detect evil does not detect anyone who's evil! It detects only priests, blackguards, undead and outsiders until very high character levels! Make sure your DM remembers that or your career will be real short and ugly. Well, first session has happened, last Friday as a matter of fact. So far it does not look like my character is supposed to sell out anyone, and as far as backstory, it's pretty loose atm. Here are some highlights of the night: My character enters the campaign after being cought by someone who's after one of the party members (I was in his room snooping around...). We're tied up, gagged, back to back. I'm also blindfolded. Fail my escape artist checks for the entirety of the fight (joy, oh joy, with my 18 dext....) The group unties their friend and start interrogating me (after removing the gag and blindfold) The other new character (female druid, who actually did get to help some) comes over and unties me over the party's protests. My character acts nice to the druid (cha16), since she freed him, and he's honerable (if evil). There was a paladin in the group, who did detect me as evil aparently, and confronted me about it as we were all on our way back to town. This is a rough remembrance of the conversation. (P=Paladin, C=Cleric, D=Druid, W=Warlock=Me) P and C are walking to my left and right. C: So, you're evil, what are you doing here, and what do you want with our party. I'm not sure I want you traveling with us. W: I'm not traveling with you *******s, you guys are jerks. I am just keeping this lovely and kind lady company (indicating Druid). P: Well, you're evil. D: You guys aren't exactly nice, have you no code of chivalry? Leaving someone tied up and interrogating someone for no reason. W: *Spits on the ground in front of Paladin* I dislike your kind, you're allways so self-righteous, and your god's a prick (paraphrased, but something along those lines) W: Try looking at some of the merchants in town some time. C: They're not traveling with us. W: Neither am I, I'm simply accompanying her *points at D* to the town. C or P (forget which): Well, I still don't like you. W: Fine, I don't care, and I haven't done anything. Pretty much it was D+W vs. C+P, and W+D were winning handily. So far I like this character alot. (the paladin was an NPC being run by another player, and left after that session)
Corrino 01-21-06, 11:30 PM	Boondock Saints rocks. "Brilliant. So now we got a Huge Guy theory and a Serial Crusher theory. Top notch. " "When I raise my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold on judgment, I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who haze me. Oh, Lord, raise me to Thy right hand and count me among Thy saints. Never shall innocent blood be shed. Yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of God. "
ressurrector 01-22-06, 01:10 AM	huh?