Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chiyo 08-30-06, 05:28 PM	First a bit of explaining, I'm a DM myself and have been for a while now so getting a good handle on exp awards. In the campaign I play (not DM) in, the group is often inconsistent. It's a large group and some people miss few or up to half the sessions. DM usually pulls their character off the game for the session they miss so they don't earn exp during those times. Anyway, personally I hardly ever miss a session. Last couple of adventures, we had a significantly lower number of players (3/5) and we ended up fighting lots of stuff. And I'm the record keeper for the group since I'm there just about every time. Two sessions ago, I thought exp award was on the low side but I couldn't exactly judge the CRs and stuff. But last session we fought well known monsters and not too many of them. Can't say the conditions were set for reducing CRs by much if any. Actually we fought some of them in dark, low ceiling tunnels so if anything conditions were against us. Anyway, I figured the exp should not only level me to 5th but place me about halfway to 6th level. DM turns in exp awards and I end up just short of 5th level. Even allowing for some leeway and error on my part, I basically got less than half the exp I calculated based solely on the monsters we defeated (not even counting traps since I can't get exact CR). You see where I'm getting at. I don't want to sound rude to my DM and I kinda know that he's trying to keep people on the same playing field but it just doesn't seem very fair or rewarding. Would you approach the DM about it? Ask him to justify why exp award was so incredibly low? Say nothing to see if the trend continues? I guess if on top of that the lower level players weren't also handed in extra goodies (weapon +4 at lvl 2) when I have got one magic item total in 5 levels, it'd be more acceptable but I feel just a bit like getting the short end of the stick of making it a point to come to every game at this point. Any advice in such situation?
thenotoriousJIM 08-30-06, 05:48 PM	He wants to keep the party at the same level, that is fine. My group divides everything equally among everyone. If you give more XP to the people who are always there, the part time players will stop comeing. That means that a party of 5 turns into a permanant party of 3. My actual advise is to find another player who will always show up. That way you have 4 players and can cut the no shows.
kelvinaw273 08-30-06, 06:06 PM	I'll add my voice to that. Your real problem is your players not turning up, not your DM. He is just tryiong to ekeep the playing field level by not letting the shows get ahead of the no-shows. It's not fair on you, but it is fairer for the group as a whole. His only other option if he wants the no-shows to keep coming at least occasionally is to give them unearned experience points - which is just as unfair on you. Find new players, or a way of getting the no-shows to turn up. That's the best solution.
pres_man 08-30-06, 06:19 PM	Ask your DM about it. Really, you should discuss it with him. Keeping the group close to level and dropping gimme items on people who don't show, is just rewarding their behaviour while punishing yours. Your DM could always institute a rule that characters never fall more than 1 or 2 levels below the lowest consistent member of the party. Who cares if they get "bonus xp", if they are still behind the rest of the party. Frankly, I think you guys shouldn't consider the "floaters" as actually real party members. They shouldn't be taken into account when considering story lines or anything. If they show, the DM should just increase the number of creatures the party is fighting to account for them. In my own game, I have a player that works crappy jobs, and may not be able to attend a game for a month or longer. Her character just drops off into the background and heads out for their own adventures. When she starts showing up again, her character ends up running to the party for a brief time. Basically she is a recurring cameo, but I don't take any consideration of the storyline with her character, or how fast the rest of the party levels, since they are the real party and she is just a happenstance companion.
Nidair 08-30-06, 06:31 PM	The XP awards are not rules, just guidelines. If an encounter was handled with much ease, or maybe with more difficulty than normal, your DM can change the amount of XP you get for it. Other factors such as terrain advantage, or decreased monster (or pc) stats can also explain a change in the experience given. But let's not forget the main purpose of D&D is not about XP or whatever. It's about having fun!
DarkNick 08-30-06, 07:14 PM	I'm with Nidair. Are you there for the exp or are you there for the game? And does it really matter if it takes a bit longer to go up a level? I can see how you might feel gyped. But really the DM does not owe anyone exp. We don't really have this problem in my games. Players just play the other characters for them. The natural equilzer of that is non-present player characters tend to die more often and they miss out on bonus exp for good roleplaying, and they miss out on the choice items etc.. Maybe you could suggest this to the DM as a way to keep things a little fairer. Or maybe you could ask if the present players could get an exp bonus for being there.
Chiyo 08-30-06, 09:36 PM	Trust me, this isn't a case of encounters being too easy. Even if they have been 2 CR lower each for circumstances, that'd have been plenty enough to level me. After a while at the helm as DM, you kinda know if encounters were easy because of good rolls or just setup too easy and that wasn't the case. And the feeling doesn't get better when exp is given out in individual emails either when in previous campaigns the same DM used to give them openly at the beginning of the nexxt session. That's why I asked. I like the DM's game and have enjoyed with better groups before. I don't want him to think I don't like his game but still, like someone said I'm getting de facto penalized for showing up and that's not a good feeling and effectively spoiling my enjoyment of the game. Maybe he'll consider having the absentees be played by other players or some other solution. But not saying anything is like saying everything is fine. I'm considering what if this keeps on happening and I don't want to keep getting frustrated over it. Like some suggested, maybe new players wouldn't hurt or just a kick in the junk as wake up call for the current ones. So I think it'll be worse if I don't mention anything to him. Not during the game session so as to not undermine his authority and hurt other players feelings. Being the only woman in the group, I don't want to pass as the whiney b**** who wants to have her way but still how about talking to him privately prior to next session to let him know that I'm not so happy about the status quo? Maybe he'll tell me I need to miss a session or two until the others catch up hehe
Aeromus 08-30-06, 11:02 PM	DMs control the flow of XP. Seriously comaplining about xp in 3.5 is just stupid. Go play 2nd or 1st edition for a few years then come back and whine about 3.5 XP. According to the rules you level once ever 13.33c encounters. I can do 13 even CR challenges a night in a agme. My players can level once a game. 20 weeks we;re off to new characters. Slowing the XP makes MOST players concentrate on the world. The roleplay and the fun. In fact you're prolly one of those players that has never aged a character past starting age + 3 arent; you? In other words, shut up and play, or ***** and start the downfall of the game.
Mitchell 08-30-06, 11:21 PM	That seemed a bit harsh. Just have a casual chat and mention it. I think letting them stay 1 level behind the regulars is reasonable. It keeps the part-timers close enough to be able to function when they do show up, while giving the regulars a little acknowledgement. But all in all, it's just not a big deal to me. I don't mind slow leveling. Lets me get more mileage out of my characters.
Tequila_Sunrise 08-30-06, 11:25 PM	DMs control the flow of XP. Seriously comaplining about xp in 3.5 is just stupid. Go play 2nd or 1st edition for a few years then come back and whine about 3.5 XP. According to the rules you level once ever 13.33c encounters. I can do 13 even CR challenges a night in a agme. My players can level once a game. 20 weeks we;re off to new characters. Slowing the XP makes MOST players concentrate on the world. The roleplay and the fun. In fact you're prolly one of those players that has never aged a character past starting age + 3 arent; you? In other words, shut up and play, or ***** and start the downfall of the game. Have you had a real bad day, dude? It shows. I started playing in 2nd edition and it was tough; I consider 3rd to be vast improvement. But this isn't a problem of editions, this is a problem of DM management and I sypathize with the OP. While her DM is in a difficult possition, they're not handling it very well in my estimation. I've had similar problems like theirs before, as a DM, and I've never penalized consistent players while giving boosters to the inconsistents.
Galroth 08-30-06, 11:28 PM	In the group I play in it depends on why you didn't show up, but if it was because of work or family obligations you get full exp. If you just decide not to show up you get squat, and you are aware that you get nothing. That way the dm doesn't have to scale back exp to keep people together, and you aren't getting penalized because you had to work that weekend for some reason.
Aeromus 08-31-06, 02:34 AM	Have you had a real bad day, dude? It shows. I started playing in 2nd edition and it was tough; I consider 3rd to be vast improvement. But this isn't a problem of editions, this is a problem of DM management and I sypathize with the OP. While her DM is in a difficult possition, they're not handling it very well in my estimation. I've had similar problems like theirs before, as a DM, and I've never penalized consistent players while giving boosters to the inconsistents. The DM specifially says to ad-hoc XP if you want a faster/slower game. The DM may be diving by 2/3/12 before splitting to the party which he has 110% all rights to do. The only rights the player has in this regard is to ask, "Are you lowering XP because you want us to progress slower?" And, even that's a bit of a push. But then again maybe he doesn't know how to do it, and you could approach him. I didn't have a bad day I just don't understand the constant whining. The player got XP. It's not like the DM said "Ok no xp's for joo mwaahahahahaa" What's worse then a DM gimping a player on XP, is a player that writes down, charts out, and inspects my/his/her handy work, and then declares shenanigans. If you whined to me, or shadowed my every move as a DM and confronted me over something that you'll get sooner or later anyway, I'd offer you the DM screen and roll a character. Did you not give you a class defining feature at the appropriate level? No he gave you the XP he thinks you deserve. You want more? Do more stuff.
Treebore 08-31-06, 02:51 AM	Talking to him is a definite. I always hated the players who had problems with things going on and never talked to me about it, just left. so definitely talk. If he isn't reasonable about why, or doesn't "fix" things, you can walk whenever you want. He may be handing out the candy to the no-shows because he thinks/hopes it will encourage them to show. Its obvious to others he is wrong, but it may not be obviosu to him. So he may ALSO not be considering how he could be throwing mud in the faces of his reliable players. Another possibility since you are the only girl in the group, he may be trying to be extra careful to not appear to have a crush on you. Whether he does or does not have one. Or he may be a sexist pig. So talk to him. Try to find out.
lousywithnames 08-31-06, 02:53 AM	We had a similar problem in our group. Half the players couldn't make it to every session. So we discussed it amongst everyone and decided that people who weren't at a session get full XP (to solve the mixed-level problem) but no treasure. Works well enough. Perhaps something like this could work in your game?
SamiPeikko 08-31-06, 04:52 AM	Ask privately from your GM if he has decided to slow down the advancement of the party. Tell him that it is easier for you not got frustrated with slower advancement if you know how and why it happens. It may be completely unrelated to the missing players, for example your DM just likes to run games at these levels. Or it can be simple mistake, like XP divided by 5 instead of 3 beforehand. Of course it could be an attempt to keep you from getting too far ahead of others, but you can't know that unless you ask. It certainly sounds wierd that characters are given personal treasure. It is equally weird that you have not found magic items from your enemies. +2 sword is something you could find, but of course its value should be divided equally. I believe our GM has decided to cut XP awards in half. Reason for this would be simply our high stats. We can take on enemies with rather high CR, and because of that would advance on levels every 5 encounters or so. I'm fine with it, so I'm not going to bring it up.
Nidair 08-31-06, 08:36 AM	I wonder why you even think you're DM is nagging you. Let me tell you, there is no thing as a DM 'fudging' XP. He is free to distribute XP as he wants. The values written in the DMG are merely guidelines for this task. ECL and CR have little to do with this. Most CR's in the later books are way off anyway. The difficulty depends much more on the compilation of your party. Drow encounters are easy if your party includes 3 or more members who don't use magic. Ethereal Marauders are a lot more difficult when nobody has a good Spot skill. Think about that before you whine to your DM about the illusionary thing called "RAW". So I think it'll be worse if I don't mention anything to him. I think it'll be much worse if you do mention anything to him. As Aeromus said, maybe you can even get your character to level 6 - a new character though.
pres_man 08-31-06, 09:47 AM	I think it'll be much worse if you do mention anything to him. What? When is it ever a bad idea to discuss concerns with your DM? Is that the type of game that is common, "Question me and I shall rain death and destruction on you!" If anything would make me want to discuss it with the DM it is this attitude. If he can't justify himself in a reasonable manner (this is why you ask outside of game time, so he has time to form his response), but instead is just acting like a tool, FIND OUT NOW. Life is too short to game with morons. Determine if this DM is one or not, though give him the benefit of the doubt. You want more? Do more stuff. Actually you are contradicting yourself here. You are implying that it is at least in some part in the hands of the player how much xp they get, yet earlier you claimed that the amount of xp given is totally dependent on the DM. So which is it? If a DM only wants to give out 300 xp for entire game session, irregardless of how much the PCs do or overcome, how is a player suppose to "do more"?
Chiyo 08-31-06, 10:50 AM	Thanks for the replies. It's a possibility that the DM may be scaling down exp to slow down the progression. If that's the case, I don't have a problem with it at all as long as it's across the board. And that'd be easy to explain in quick chat with DM I think. I don't think there'd be a reason for him to get offended if he has to explain that right? As DM, I wouldn't. But to be precise, I'm not concerned about the absolute amount of exp as much as about the discrepancy in relative exp. Basically in sessions when people are missing, we seem to be gaining half or less of what I'd consider would be normal exp for the challenges and then when everyone is here, exp progression seems to get back to normal. I mean, out of about 11 sessions, some players have missed 4 and we're still all 4th level? I'm willing to listen to good arguments about that too but in my perception something's just not adding up no matter how I slice it. I'd be happy to find out that there is a good reason for all this but honestly I don't see a way for me to find out except by talking to the DM about it. If it turns out that I can't talk in calm mature fashion with the DM about it, I'd rather walk out of his campaign I think. It's not worth the hassle if I'm gonna get frustrated over it and can't even have discussion about stuff like that. Good idea about having no shows get exp but no treasure. Doesn't keep them back, only they'll be less well equipped. Maybe that'll be an option to discuss. DM's not keeping character sheets of players in between sessions so we'd have to change that so that all characters can be played even if their player isn't there. Anyway, I'll email him and see what he says.
Aeromus 08-31-06, 10:56 AM	What? When is it ever a bad idea to discuss concerns with your DM? Is that the type of game that is common, "Question me and I shall rain death and destruction on you!" If anything would make me want to discuss it with the DM it is this attitude. If he can't justify himself in a reasonable manner (this is why you ask outside of game time, so he has time to form his response), but instead is just acting like a tool, FIND OUT NOW. Life is too short to game with morons. Determine if this DM is one or not, though give him the benefit of the doubt. Actually you are contradicting yourself here. You are implying that it is at least in some part in the hands of the player how much xp they get, yet earlier you claimed that the amount of xp given is totally dependent on the DM. So which is it? If a DM only wants to give out 300 xp for entire game session, irregardless of how much the PCs do or overcome, how is a player suppose to "do more"? No I'm not. The poster didn't say, "Hey in the last 10 games we killed 17 cr 8 giants and always got 300 xp." He said "We seem to be getting roughly half the normal RaW xp when xp is divided." So with the latter being the rule that's used, doing more, gets more. If it had been the prior reason I'd have said, roleplay more and collect your 300 xp by building a better character. Storywise. Nice attempt to stump my words. But, it was just an attempt. I'm not a harsh stand on many topics. But, whining about only getting half the xp you THINK you deserve is one of the things that just angers me. Although not as much as the "Weild a greatsword, and make a two weapon attack with my armor spikes crap that's still in the Official FaQ."
Yaeri 08-31-06, 01:05 PM	Talk things through with your DM, in private. Better that, than silently fretting about it until it's no longer worth it for you and you leave without saying anything. Your DM knows that with D&D's Experience system, characters who lag behind in level, automatically start to catch up to the others after a while right?
Cifer 08-31-06, 02:37 PM	I fail to see your problem. Yes, you get less XP when the others are not there - do you feel punished by gaming more than them? Look at it this way: If your DM handed out XP as normal, the other players would truly be behind you, their characters would become useless and you'd basically lose them as soon as they realize they don't contribute anything to the game anymore. I'd guess they have reasons for not coming to game sessions - punishing them for having duties in real life seems hardly fair either, does it? Your DM knows that with D&D's Experience system, characters who lag behind in level, automatically start to catch up to the others after a while right? They do so only if they have the same amount of encounters during their catch-up period as the others - this works for ressurections, not missing players. I just did a bit of math until lvl 6: When one of the players shows up every second session only, they still lose massive amounts of experience and lag behind two and more levels which is hardly mitigated by the system. Good idea about having no shows get exp but no treasure. Doesn't keep them back, only they'll be less well equipped. Doesn't keep them back? Nice try... it in fact harms them more - no equipment means your "combat potence" lags behind the value indicated by your level. You don't get more Exp as if you were weaker than others in Level, but you still are weaker in combat power (and in other ways).
JulesCARV 08-31-06, 02:55 PM	Personally, I don't really like the whole CR/EL/XP system that much anyway; I prefer more freeform experience systems along the lines of, "they should get to level up about once every four three hour game sessions, plus or minus for how much time we waste in out of character chatter, wasting time, and such, and they're level four now, so about 1000 xp per session, and a bit more for those who are still level three."
MrPiskie 08-31-06, 09:34 PM	I definitely second that a little talk with the DM is in order. If it's the same people who are absent consistently and the DM is worried about keeping the levels even, you might want to suggest sending the laggards on a side-adventure or two, if that's feasible. It's more work, but it's how I'd try to deal with it if I were DM. But whatever you do, don't be angry, whiny, or demanding. There's little that screws up a game faster than disharmony in the group. Not that you'd do that, but it bears keeping in mind.
pres_man 08-31-06, 10:59 PM	No I'm not. The poster didn't say, "Hey in the last 10 games we killed 17 cr 8 giants and always got 300 xp." He said "We seem to be getting roughly half the normal RaW xp when xp is divided." So with the latter being the rule that's used, doing more, gets more. If it had been the prior reason I'd have said, roleplay more and collect your 300 xp by building a better character. Storywise. Yes, but if the DM is purposefully trying to limit the speed that they are advancing then I seriously doubt we can assume the consistency of said DM, or if said DM will infact offer additional opportunties for more xp. But let us say that the consistent players infact overcome 50% more encounters in a given session, hoping to get more xp. Well now all the DM has to do is give them only 1/3 instead of 1/2 of the xp, as he was doing before. Thus, same result yet the players are working even harder for less. They overcome 100% more encounters, now the DM gives them 1/4 as much xp, net gain = 0. As long as the DM is working under the assumption that he does not want the consistent players to get too far ahead, then he can keep changing the xp award to get that desired end. Since the DM is not being held to be consistent, there is nothing that will make him be, but himself. Now he very well might be consistent, in that case perhaps they could get more xp by "trying harder" (whatever the heck that would be), but more likely the DM would just slow the game with non-xp gaining "roleplaying" thus still limit how much xp the party gets. The player should make it clear that the DM should not be slowing the game for part-timers. A DM should be "spoiling" (making decisions in favor) the constant players, they are the ones showing respect to the DM's game by being there every week. The part-timers should just be happy that they don't have to start at 1st level every time they have been gone for a few weeks. Suggest to the DM that he give the part-timers 1/2 xp when they aren't there (their characters will be 'NPCed' but won't die), and they can never get more than a level or two behind the main party.
Yaeri 09-01-06, 05:48 AM	Suggest to the DM that he give the part-timers 1/2 xp when they aren't there (their characters will be 'NPCed' but won't die), and they can never get more than a level or two behind the main party. Seconded. This keeps the game fair for the players who do show up, without making it impossible for the others to be useful as well.
LastOfTheEld 09-01-06, 08:47 AM	Something major you forgot to explain (or if you did, I missed it, and I apologize) is the reasoning for other people missing sessions. If they have work or a previous engagement made before the game-time was set, they miss the game and it's completely understandable. If they have another responsibility instead of D&D, like work, they're already missing the fun of playing the game, and holding them behind would make things even worse for them. However, if they are missing the game because they don't feel like playing, or something along those lines, then in my mind they should definitely not make up the XP they missed. From what I gathered your main complaint is about the unfairness of the overall game directed towards your character. I'd agree with some of the others in that you should talk to the DM in private. Maybe even just drop him an email, politely discussing the problems you're having with the game. After all, the magic item distribution, from how you've explained it, seems rather unfair. But then again, it's tough to justify why one character should have gotten a +4 weapon at level 2. Just my thoughts on the matter.
Mandarbgrim 09-01-06, 05:33 PM	I would add to the suggestion of talking to your DM about the issue. My suggestion to the DM in question seconds that the random players only slip to 1-2 levels behind the party, but there are other ways to reward players besides XP & treasure that determines power level more directly. Examples being giving out free feats & special abilities.
King Bulba 09-01-06, 05:47 PM	Personally, I don't really like the whole CR/EL/XP system that much anyway; I prefer more freeform experience systems along the lines of, "they should get to level up about once every four three hour game sessions, plus or minus for how much time we waste in out of character chatter, wasting time, and such, and they're level four now, so about 1000 xp per session, and a bit more for those who are still level three." I don't like that idea but if it works for you then have fun with that. If you give more XP to the people who are always there, the part time players will stop comeing. That means that a party of 5 turns into a permanant party of 3. You are wrong because in 3.5 gives lower level people more exp per encounter so they catch up. If you give everyone the same exp then what do you do about people who are lower level because they were raised?
fatal error 09-01-06, 11:15 PM	Only read about half the posts because something kept nagging at me; It seems about half the posts missed the fact that EXP has only slowed down when people were skipping sessions. He's not so much complaining that EXP is slow in general, but that he is actually be punished by slower advancement so the people that don't follow through on their commitment can keep up. Now, it's pretty obvious that if these extra people are coming relatively often you don't want to kick them out, or kick them out indirectly by making everyone else advance way far ahead of them. So, what to do? Well, for the OP, you should talk to your DM, and maybe help him work out something more satisfactory as a solution. As for the DM, perhaps he should run the characters as NPCs and give full or 3/4ths EXP, though this isn't an option if it's going to slow battles down too much. Another possibility is having other players run multiple characters (saw both these higher in the thread but thought I'd mention them again). Oh, and please, can we hold off on the 'back in the good old days it took ten times as long to level so quit being so impatient, son' (you know you want to say son when you type stuff like that).
SokenzanMarauder 09-02-06, 12:56 PM	I'd say it's probably just that the DM is trying to keep you guys even, or he's just slowing down the experience gain. Personally, I like doing the latter. I generally only award half of what the DMG says to award, if that. But, I prefer slower games as it is. To each their own. -Gene
pres_man 09-02-06, 01:06 PM	I'd say it's probably just that the DM is trying to keep you guys even, Which could be accomplished in other ways, like giving "free xp" to the people missing. "Taking away" xp from the people who are there is silly, why should they be punished for showing up? (By taking away, I mean denying them the xp they would have normal have gotten in this campaign if everyone was present.) or he's just slowing down the experience gain. Which should be done at all times, not just when the other players are gone. Personally, I like doing the latter. I generally only award half of what the DMG says to award, if that. But, I prefer slower games as it is. To each their own. -Gene Well, I also hope your players like slower games as well. Yet if you all are alright with that, then great, but I hope you 1)tell the players at the beginning that you will be given a reduced amount of xp and 2)don't arbitrarily adjust the level xp you get, merely to keep some kind of idea of "balance". The silliest thing about this is the fact that when other are gone the ones there should in fact get MORE xp, not less. If you take out an encounter balanced for your party level, and there are only 3 people present versus 5 you should be getting more xp, since it is only being divided 3 ways versus 5 ways.
SmokeJaguar 09-02-06, 01:51 PM	Pres_man's got it. Your DM, regardless of intentions, is rewarding players for not showing up, which is a good way to reinforce that they have no obligation to the other players to be present. If you hand a 2nd level character a +4 weapon, that's just telling him "Don't bother showing up, you aren't missing anything." You don't give your dog a biscuit when he makes a mess of your carpet, so your DM shouldn't hand out magical, vorpal biscuits to players who crap on his game. Communicating with your DM is crucial here. My gut tells me that he may be inexperienced when dealing with no-shows. Just as important is communicating with your fellow players. You've DMed, so you know how much prep work goes into it and how tough it can be to keep the story going. Maybe the no-show players don't understand this and are not so much being incourteous to the group as they are acting on the assumption that their attendance is unimportant. I don't know the whole situation, but I've bumped into problems like that before. Basically, don't be afraid to help your DM out. DMs who understand the purpose of the game won't be aversed to making it more fun for everyone.
Wulfgar 09-02-06, 03:30 PM	In our games, you don't show up, you don't get XP, unless you arrange with the DM or another layer to run your character (in which case you get 1/2 XP). Period. That means if the DM or another player runs the PC, all the character really does is fight in battles and apply healing (if a class with healing powers) afterward, offering no other input. The PC will not, a la KotDT, sacrifice himself nobly to save the rest of the party after giving all his kewl magic items to another PC. As for the OP, the DM has a bit to answer for; giving out XP and phat lewt to people who don't show up, while screwing players who do show out of XP and items stinks to the Abyss as some sort of twisted favoritism..
Archangel62 09-02-06, 04:33 PM	The problem is this, by doing it he creates less and less of an incentive for people to show up. What's the point if all my work and progress if I need the others to be here for it to be of any true value and reward. What it does is invalidates the players who took the time to come to the game and rewards those that are irregular. Let's do a different example, a new player comes into your game, Your group has been going since level 1, now are level 8. New player is given extra gear and such to compensate for him not being on the earlier adventures, this rewards the new guy and it is a bit of a slap in the face to the players who were there before.
amethal 09-02-06, 07:32 PM	The DM is trying to strike a balance between those who can turn up most weeks and those who (for whatever reason) are not as consistent. Discuss with your DM your concerns about his solution. You are entitled to express your opinion, and most DMs want more feedback, not less. It won't make you a whiney "female dog"!
Morrowner 09-02-06, 10:52 PM	The DM has got to realize that his behavior is damaging the game by creating a rift between the 3 core players and the 2 Johnny Whenevers. Personally, I really hate this behavior, and if a player can't or won't make a game frequently I won't let them be a party member, they can be a cameo like in another post . I don't let others run the player, I don't offer makeup sessions, I don't give half XP and quarter gear. Its called "tough love". If you want a consistent session you have to do it by the rules and give out this tough love of not getting gear, treasure and XP. Its the only way the behavior will change. A saying about behavior that has always stuck with me is this "If somebody makes a "mistake" that rewards them they will continue to make that "mistake" until they are punished for it." If the players can not own up to their responsibility as part of the party and not only do they not get punished, they get rewarded for it, don't think for a minute that their behavior will change.
Chiyo 09-06-06, 11:09 AM	Well, after talking, the DM admitted reducing the normal XP awards to keep people same level despite 2 players missing many sessions. His rationale is that those are players coming back to D&D and he didn't want them to be discouraged by lagging behind because they missed sessions. Same kinda deal for freebies. He said that those guys are a bit rusty and he wanted to make them feel good about their character's performance even if they don't play them that well in the beginnning. I told my feelings about the whole situation and actually CCed the other two regular players on the discussion. Compromise reached after much arguments is no show = no exp+no treasure. But since DM has extra time, he's gonna arrange make up sessions for those players as needed. If they care to attend those, they'll keep up ok even missing some of the regularly scheduled sessions. If they don't, they'll eventually get kicked out or simply play with lower level characters. I'm ok with that. We'll see how it works.
PhaedrusXY 09-06-06, 03:16 PM	As already pointed out, even if they do fall behind a level, they'll earn XP at a faster rate because of it. So if they are showing up even semi-regularly, they won't fall too far behind. Make sure your DM knows this. It is a part of the 3.5 revision. This wasn't the case with 3.0 XP rules (except in Forgotten Realms...). However, I am somewhat in agreement with the other people who basically said that it is the DMs business alone to determine how much XP to award, and what system to use doing it. In some games I've been in, we didn't even bother with XP at all, really. Every so many games, the DM just told us to level up our characters.
Man in the Funny Hat 09-06-06, 04:14 PM	There is nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with a player having the reasonable expectation of a certain level of xp award given the rules, being disappointed when he perceives he is not getting that award, and certainly not a freakin' thing wrong with asking the DM "what gives?" No, the XP awards are not graven in stone - but players have every reason to expect awards consistent with what they might see in the DMG unless the DM has taken the extremely simple step of saying to them, "This campaign isn't going to follow rules in the DMG like it was on a leash." I'd say it's actually RUDE if the DM gets frisky on certain reasonable expectations - like xp awards - without having the simple courtesy to inform them first. The reason is simple - it prevents silly situations like what is being presented. What the DM's intent is in the matter is irrelevant, if there is even a particular intent at all. It doesn't matter what he's actually doing with XP or why. What IS important is that clearly it's NOT an insignificant matter to players who have (I hate to keep beating this point) perfectly reasonable expectations to the contrary. The solution yet again is simple verbal communication as it so OFTEN is. The OP needs to talk to the DM, ask simply and straightforwardly, "Are you actually awarding standard amounts of XP or not, because it seems like you're not." The DM is obliged to answer this honestly. If the answer is, "No it's not standard awards," the DM would be well advised to apologize for failing to make clear such a simple, yet fundamental change to the way the players can expect the game to go BEFORE they would have agreed to come aboard. It's not a matter of showing the players the math at every session for their approval - it's just common courtesy. This constitutes a fundamental change in how the characters will advance in the game and players should have been made aware of it before play ever began. No, it's not as if this is all that horrific a thing to do - to award less xp than normal. But it is quite offensive that the DM should not be proactive and forthright in informing the players on just what the rules are at the table AT THE START. If anything it's more annoying because it SHOULDN'T have ever become this big a deal. But because the DM has failed to initiate and maintain basic communication with the players there is now at least one player who is upset to some degree over the issue. Finally, I don't care HOW badly a DM might want to encourage players to come back, it is UNFORGIVABLY OFFENSIVE to hand out freebies and favors to people who DON'T SHOW UP (and the reason for not showing up is irrelevant), while players who are faithful attendees get short shrift. As players your characters should get what they get when you are there to play as a result of the natural course of play. Period. That applies for XP, for money, magic, favors from NPC's, whatever. Sorry. Makes my blood boil just thinking about it. Just talk to the DM. Ask him what's the deal and for any explanations he might have. Deal with it calmly from there.
pres_man 09-06-06, 04:20 PM	Man in the Funny Hat: The OP has spoken to her DM, see the post 2 above yours. :) Though I would say, there is nothing wrong with the DM adjusting (slightly) the xp rules without informing the players, obvious large adjustments should probably be mentioned. What I find disturbing in the DM is not acting in a consistent fashion. If the DM always gave out 1/2 xp, because he thought it would be more interesting to level slower, great (well I would like it but some might). Yet if he is sometimes giving full xp and sometimes giving half xp for the same level of challenges then that is inappropriate.
King Bulba 09-06-06, 04:23 PM	The DM has got to realize that his behavior is damaging the game by creating a rift between the 3 core players and the 2 Johnny Whenevers. Personally, I really hate this behavior, and if a player can't or won't make a game frequently I won't let them be a party member, they can be a cameo like in another post . I don't let others run the player, LOL say that to one of my group members, he is late 99% of the time. Then again he is a doctor and saving peoples lives, I think we can afford to play his character untill he arives.
Man in the Funny Hat 09-06-06, 04:38 PM	Man in the Funny Hat: The OP has spoken to her DM, see the post 2 above yours. :)No problem. Missed that post somehow I guess in haste to respond. No apologies though. This really is - or should be - basic stuff, and if it takes shouting at people to get them to wake up to common sense and civility well then I guess I'll be a little uncivil and shout occasionally. :) What I find disturbing in the DM is not acting in a consistent fashion. If the DM always gave out 1/2 xp, because he thought it would be more interesting to level slower, great (well I would like it but some might). Yet if he is sometimes giving full xp and sometimes giving half xp for the same level of challenges then that is inappropriate.Even that kind of inconsistency could be excused by the simple statement, "I'm going to be awarding XP completely off the cuff just based on how I want things to go or to be perceived." Heck, I actively advocate breaking rules, fudging the occasional die roll, and in general using the imagination to supersede the rules on a regular basis. But I always inform players well ahead of time as much as is practical without sacrificing my perogative to have the occasional surprise.