Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wonder_Petz 03-17-07, 10:45 PM	My DM is using the old version of dnd with 3.5 and that completely screws up the xp. Ive been getting 20 xp for killing a 75 hp minoutaur. He's convinced hes right and wont change. Ive been playing my paladin for a month and am only level 3.:(
Ace_of_time 03-17-07, 10:52 PM	What do you mean old version? can you give us more to go on. how many people you play with. how long did it take to kill it.
Rerecros 03-17-07, 10:59 PM	:D Situations like this are what the pointy corners on the PHB are for.
Wonder_Petz 03-17-07, 11:00 PM	There is no actual 75 hp minoutaur, it is just and example of whats been going on. I thought people would be smart enough to understand that the "old version" is like AD&D, the one with THAC0s and AC going down. There is 3 people in our party.
Morwen 03-17-07, 11:03 PM	Does your DM have the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide? If he does, ask him to take a look at the "Rewards" section on pages 36-41. It clearly spells out that in normal circumstances, you should award XP as derived directly from the monsters' CR.
Wonder_Petz 03-17-07, 11:07 PM	I've tried but he won't budge. I think my best option is to quit.:surrender
DyloniusFunk 03-17-07, 11:43 PM	There is no actual 75 hp minoutaur, it is just and example of whats been going on. I thought people would be smart enough to understand that the "old version" is like AD&D, the one with THAC0s and AC going down. There is 3 people in our party. Well for a lot of people here the "old" version is 3.0. Just the idea of a DM trying to combind 3.5 and 2nd Edition is something that very rarely comes up. I'm sure some do it and maybve it wokrs for them but it's not a common thing. Now from what you've told us, and to be fair, that really isn't a lot, it sounds like the DM is useing the leveling guidelines from 2nd Edition, which from what i've been told, were a lot slower than 3.X. In fact i've heard many say that PCs level way to fast in 3.X compared to 2nd. I suggest you talk to your DM, tell him you would appreciate it if he would decide on one system, either 2nd Edition or 3.X, and run the game enbtirely in that system. If he feels the PCs will level to fast there are plenty of ways to control leveling. The trick is to find the ones that control the progress to a levle you like but still let your players level at a decent rate.
Mouseferatu 03-18-07, 12:02 AM	Ive been playing my paladin for a month and am only level 3.:( How often do you play? The level guidelines for 3.5 suggest that you ought to level roughly every 13.3 encounters. In my experience, that corresponds to a level every 3 or 4 games (on average, not universlaly), so level 3 after a month is actually quite appropriate, assuming you're playing once a week.
DrMorganes 03-18-07, 12:28 AM	Point of fact, your DM is the sole arbiter of things such as XP awards. The guidelines listed in the DMG are nothing more than that - guidelines. 3.x adjusted the recommended XP awards, as well as the amount of XP needed to level, in response to complaints from previous editions that it took too long for PCs to reach a new level. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, eh? Asmodeus would be proud... It boils down to this: talk to your DM. Explain to him that you're unhappy with how slowly you're leveling. Ask why he's mixing two essentially incompatible versions of the rules. If he refuses to budge, you have some options. First, suck it up and deal. It's only a game, after all... Second, exercise Rule -1 and walk. Nothing says you have to play with this guy. Third, start your own game using the 3.5 Core Rules. Invite your current DM to participate. He may enjoy the change of pace.
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-18-07, 01:01 AM	Show him page 38 in the DMG. TELL him that THESE are the numbers he should be dividing up between the group. If he doesn't budge again, you have two options: Kill him or leave.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 03-18-07, 02:24 AM	Show him page 38 in the DMG. TELL him that THESE are the numbers he should be dividing up between the group. If he doesn't budge again, you have two options: Kill him or leave. This is complete and utter BS. The DMG is not your DM. Nor are any of the rules in it binding. In fact in the very same chapter it staes that XP may be adjusted based on the challenge of the encounter. It further explains that the DM may use ad-hoc XP whenever they feel like. Quiet frankly the amount of XP given in a game is soully up to the DM. Stop whining.
Millennium 03-18-07, 02:42 AM	This is complete and utter BS. So is what the DM is doing. He is using a version of a monster that was not designed for this game, and is in fact severely hurting his players' progress and enjoyment. This last is important, because there is in fact one, and only one, wrong way to play D&D: any way that isn't fun. His players are not having fun, and that makes him wrong. The DMG is not your DM. Nor are any of the rules in it binding. In fact in the very same chapter it staes that XP may be adjusted based on the challenge of the encounter. It further explains that the DM may use ad-hoc XP whenever they feel like. Indeed, but this DM is clearly screwing something up big time if he's trying to use a set of monster stats from 2e, which are only slightly more 3e-compatible than GURPS statistics are. Do we know exactly why he is insisting on using 2e monster stats in 3e?
kelvinaw273 03-18-07, 03:47 AM	My DM is using the old version of dnd with 3.5 and that completely screws up the xp. Ive been getting 20 xp for killing a 75 hp minoutaur. He's convinced hes right and wont change. Ive been playing my paladin for a month and am only level 3.:( How many sessions and encounters have you played in that month? I play once a week and after a month I would still expect to be level 1! In fact, the old AD&D system should be giving you more xp per encounter as you rise in level, and there is a section (in UA I think) that gives old xp handouts and an amended xp/level table for PCs. Are you sure he isn't just using this alternative system? If he is it is perfectly legitimate and balanced.
Bedevere 03-18-07, 08:53 AM	I'd like it if my DM used 2nd edition monsters stats against us. AC -10. No will, reflex, or fortitude saves AT ALL. at higher end, the rules forbidding levelling twice in one session become commonplace. EVERYTHING being worth xp, no matter how weak.
Matthew77 03-18-07, 09:59 AM	You need to decide what you're really upset about. Do you not like the inclusion of rules from previous editions? Or are you just upset because you aren't gaining levels as fast as you would like? Unless you play 5 times a week or something, 2 levels in a month is a bit faster than I would expect to gain levels. I anticipate a level every 3 sessions or so, depending on the successfulness of the party. Maybe you are just used to leveling up faster and are now playing with a DM who likes a slower power climb? IMO, the actual rules for assigning EXP are the least important rules in the DMG. As long as distribution seems fair and in proportion to character's actions, I don't really care what system is used to determine the actual numbers.
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-18-07, 10:40 PM	This is complete and utter BS. Actually, no. It's RAW. If the DM is houseruling things like this, he may very well **** off his players because it's frustrating when it goes this slow. The DMG is not your DM. No, but it is the RAW, so the DM is houseruling. Houseruling of this kind should also be passed by the players (which the DM relies on, making him not the final arbiter of everything). In fact in the very same chapter it staes that XP may be adjusted based on the challenge of the encounter. It further explains that the DM may use ad-hoc XP whenever they feel like. That means that they should be giving some bonus XP for more challenging encounters, not twenty times less! Quiet frankly the amount of XP given in a game is soully up to the DM. It may surprise you, but the players don't have to take all the crap the DM throws at them. What? It's his campaign? Okay, but the players are the ones that the DM needs to justify his more outrageous rulings to.
SokenzanMarauder 03-18-07, 11:08 PM	My DM is using the old version of dnd with 3.5 and that completely screws up the xp. Ive been getting 20 xp for killing a 75 hp minoutaur. He's convinced hes right and wont change. Ive been playing my paladin for a month and am only level 3.:( A month and you're level 3? What level do you expect to be? Further, how often do you play? If it's once a week then you're leveling up damn fast, if it's five times a week you need to get out more. -Gene
Kursk 03-18-07, 11:16 PM	No, but it is the RAW, so the DM is houseruling. Houseruling of this kind should also be passed by the players (which the DM relies on, making him not the final arbiter of everything). I almost spit out my drink! Sorry, players don't pass on house rules. :rofl:
DyloniusFunk 03-18-07, 11:19 PM	I almost spit out my drink! Sorry, players don't pass on house rules. :rofl: If you bring up idiotic house rules in the middle for no good reason than to be an ass, players will pass on them by leaving your game. On the other hand you start the game with a list of rule changes and make sure all your players understand them then everything works out. Two different approaches, one of them sure to leave you with players.
Kursk 03-18-07, 11:49 PM	If you bring up idiotic house rules in the middle for no good reason than to be an ass, players will pass on them by leaving your game. On the other hand you start the game with a list of rule changes and make sure all your players understand them then everything works out. Two different approaches, one of them sure to leave you with players. Mine are pre-printed unless s/g totally weird/unexpected comes up, at which point I make a ruling. Sorry, there are no votes allowed. Never lost a player yet due to it.
Ace_of_time 03-19-07, 12:04 AM	It depend on what power level your playing in. Low power games should gain 1 level every 4 games. High powers should gain 1 every game but they have to fight the big boys. I say you talk to the other players first just to tell if it is just you or not. Than sit down at the beginning of the next game as a group of players and tell the DM that you all need to know what the rules are that everyone is to follow and the game is half your's too and would like some clarification. The only one who knows what rules he is useing is him.
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-19-07, 12:06 PM	Sorry, there are no votes allowed. Never lost a player yet due to it. Then you're either lucky or reasonable. This DM gave 20 XP for killing a Minotaur (likely with class levels), so yes, the players get to veto it.
Bruunwald 03-19-07, 12:19 PM	So far there seems to be a great deal of reluctance on the part of the OP to tell us how often he plays. That means those defending the DM's right to houserule are winning, while those who are arguing that the DMG should be the DM and that the DM has no right to run his game the way he sees fit (besides being wrong in general), are whining... oop! I meant, losing. Look, stop being such babies about this. As far as any of us can tell, this guy is levelling up quickly. Until he gives us evidence otherwise; for instance, that he has been gaming every night for the past month, then as far as we know, he's only played three sessions and has gone up a level in each. He hasn't even clarified what it is he meant by "old version" of D&D. You all are being nasty to each other for no reason. OP: Clarify or admit you're being a weenie. One or the other.
Bruunwald 03-19-07, 12:21 PM	Then you're either lucky or reasonable. This DM gave 20 XP for killing a Minotaur (likely with class levels), so yes, the players get to veto it. You are jumping to wild conclusions and taking the word of someone who obviously has little experience and cannot or will not clarify what they meant. You are also (like the OP), assuming things about the DM's scale that you can't know. As far as you know, the minotaur is the only creature they've met, yet they've still gone up two levels. Or can you read minds now, too?
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-19-07, 12:23 PM	Or can you read minds now, too? I always could.
Kursk 03-19-07, 12:26 PM	Then you're either lucky or reasonable. This DM gave 20 XP for killing a Minotaur (likely with class levels), so yes, the players get to veto it. Not lucky. The only workable veto is to not play.
Orcmonk220 03-19-07, 12:28 PM	To me, that seems very unfair. 20 XP is rat-worthy. I think you could possibly try to convince him again, and show him the levelling tables in the DMG, and how long it will take you to progress at that rate. However, I'm sure you've tried that, so I'm going to go back to reading...
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-19-07, 12:31 PM	The only workable veto is to not play. So the players don't get to tell the DM "No, you're not going to do it like this"? No. That's bossy and totally disruptive to the fun the players are supposed to be having. And, no, I don't give **** about the DM having fun if he's having fun by being a jackass to the players. D&D is supposed to be cooperative, not the DM's chance to boss other people around. The DMG guidelines only work if the DM is a reasonable person.
StarFyre 03-19-07, 12:34 PM	In defense of that DM, some comments: I believe 3.XE has been made, in some ways, too much like a video game. Dumbed down, faster preogression to reward power gamers, etc, however, that said...much of 3.0 and 3.5E i find brilliant. GREAT advances in table top gaming (yes, really). I explained to my players, who know I am quite a harsh DM...that I want to use the 2E fighter progression table for all classes instead of the 3.XE one. SO the exp chart looks like: 2k, 4k, 8k, 16k, 32k, ...., 2.6M (I think 2.6 million as the final step to 20th level..and then epic levels i would modify based on epic level handbook). They were ok with this. Also, I use different exp awards. I refuse to let an orc give 300 exp to a party at level 1..seeing how even with the more powerful monsters, an orc can still be taken out with some arrow shot, etc. As creatures get more powerful, I use the standard CR vs chart table..HOWEVER, for weaker stuff, I either use a 2E or my own modification. To see how I am doing, I use a template in excel I made, that tracks all the players, gives a running exp total..shows the fighter exp chart, and I have spots for notes (ie. CR creature exp modified by 50%, etc..or whatever commetn I put). From this, I can analyze how I am doing and see how players are progressing. I also give much more experience for solving stuff (we don't use dice rolls to solve puzzles/traps, they have to figure it out in real life) and for roleplaying. Now, the difference from this, I told my players up front and before we started, we had a 1 session discussion on gameplay, what we expect, styles of games (pc vs console 'so called' rpgs, etc). This way there was no surprises. I think any DM who uses lots of custom rules or modifies stuff needs to sit down and discuss with all players/potential players first. (we play with mainly 3.5E, but some stuff from 3.0 where we prefer it's version, and stuff we've taken or converted from back in 2E (the combat/tactics and Spells/magic detailed critical hit system for example)). Isn't the DM's job to discuss/mediate/and respond to issues? Bring this up with the DM before quitting and find out all his/her reasons for this.... Sanjay
Kursk 03-19-07, 12:36 PM	So the players don't get to tell the DM "No, you're not going to do it like this"? No. That's bossy and totally disruptive to the fun the players are supposed to be having. And, no, I don't give **** about the DM having fun if he's having fun by being a jackass to the players. D&D is supposed to be cooperative, not the DM's chance to boss other people around. The DMG guidelines only work if the DM is a reasonable person. No, they don't. Never in my player or DM experience has that been the case. But, I've always gamed with mature people. If s/o had used language towards others that you've exhibited they were tossed, physically, from the premises.
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-19-07, 12:39 PM	No, they don't. Yes, they do. Unless they already agreed to play this way. It's not the DM's job to be a jerk to his players, it's his job to create a world and control it. If the players don't agree to the DM's rules, the DM can either compromise or get out. If s/o had used language towards others that you've exhibited they were tossed, physically, from the premises. That doesn't mean you're mature, it means you're coddled.
Kursk 03-19-07, 12:48 PM	Yes, they do. Unless they already agreed to play this way. It's not the DM's job to be a jerk to his players, it's his job to create a world and control it. If the players don't agree to the DM's rules, the DM can either compromise or get out. That doesn't mean you're mature, it means you're cuddled. When you've played and DMed 1/2 as long as me let me know your thoughts. Experience tends to color and shape your ideas. You're still very young and life will enhance your ability to deal with these types of situations.
SokenzanMarauder 03-19-07, 12:51 PM	I always could. I knew it! Another file for the case. :cool: -Gene
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-19-07, 12:54 PM	When you've played and DMed 1/2 as long as me let me know your thoughts. Experience tends to color and shape your ideas. You're still very young and life will enhance your ability to deal with these types of situations. I've DMed for 3 years straight. I know what my players will and will not take from me. I'm nothing without my players so it's best to keep on their good side (and for them to keep on mine). My group has played too long together for us to break up because of small arguments (added to the fact that they're all my personal friends), so we always compromise. You'd be surprised at how little credit DMs often give their players.
Kursk 03-19-07, 12:57 PM	I've DMed for 3 years straight. 3 Years. Yes, I remember those days. I can't even begin to count the # of different groups, campaigns and characters I've played since then. Always fun though.
kelvinaw273 03-19-07, 01:34 PM	I've DMed for 3 years straight. I know what my players will and will not take from me. I'm nothing without my players so it's best to keep on their good side (and for them to keep on mine). My group has played too long together for us to break up because of small arguments (added to the fact that they're all my personal friends), so we always compromise. You'd be surprised at how little credit DMs often give their players. I'm appalled at how little credit some of the players on these boards give their DMs. 3 Years? Wow. I've only been playing and DMing for 25 ... 1) Players do not get to 'vote' on issues in any game I run, period. I may sample opinion, but there are factors in the game that they do not know about. Just because this DM has awarded a player 20 xp for an encounter does not make him unreasonable. For all we know this is the character that ran and left the rest of the party to deal with it. We do not have sufficient information. 2) I will inform players of every houserule and campaign feature which impinges on them that they need to know, including which xp system I am using. The 'Old' system is an official alternative to the 'New' system, so no, the players don't get to wave the DMG in the DM's face unless they want to get it waved back at them. 3) The DM is the final arbiter of how much xp is awarded for a given encounter exactly as written in the DMG. They can and will amend the emount per character as per the dificulty of the encounter and the emount by which they participated. It isn't just a matter of reading off the party level vs the challenge rating - those are guidelines. 4) If the players do not like it, they can vote with their feet. If I or any other DM is that bad that they do this, we deserve it. Now, on the subject of voting ... The players cannot and should not dictate to the DM for the following reasons: A) They didn't spend a lot of hours preparing a campaign (either slaving over a hot word-processor writing it or else spending a lot of cash buying it and reading it). B) They do not know everything that is going on. The adventure may require them to be at a certain level at a certain point, and the DM may have to fudge things to get them there. Either way, you can only vote on a subject that you understand, if they don't know all the facts, they cannot vote. c) The DM has the right to enjoy the game as well. He is putting himself out to a lot of time and trouble to run something the other players can enjoy with minimal effort. The least they can do in return is try it his way.
SokenzanMarauder 03-19-07, 02:16 PM	Wow, V_T I always thought you had way more than three years under your belt... However, after reading some of the replies on this thread I'm going to formally apologize to you (V_T) for ever calling you an elitist. :P -Gene Edit: For the record, I've got 10 years of experience both playing and DMing (mostly DMing, lazy players!).
Vyvyan Basterd 03-19-07, 02:17 PM	Oh the madness! What whiney, whiney players! It makes me sick. As to the OP: As others have said there must be some missing information here. You are either playing four days a week at eight hours a pop or not only is your DM using alternate experience points, but an alternate leveling system for you to be 3rd level. Who knows? "Old version:" Could mean the DM has converted an old adventure to 3rd Edition. I am currently running a converted Keep on the Borderlands. "Lower XP:" Also in my current campaign the players are more competant in dealing with the threats posed in the Caves of Chaos. And I want to to emerge from the Caves at 4th level. So I am halving all XP awards. And I told them I would be. No arguments from them and even if they did I still have good reason to do so. "DM's Guide on XP:" It states the default method, but goes on to say you can award XP by other methods. One way is story or goal awards. Maybe the minotaur encounter did not further the goal but the DM still threw them some XP for the danger posed by the encounter anyway. The "RAW" on XP gives many options. "My best option is to quit:" I think that option would actually be best for the rest of the group. No offense, but it sounds like your style doesn't mesh with your DM's. "Hurting the player's enjoyment:" Give me a break! This is just immature whining. Gimme what I want or I'm gonna stomp my feet. Do you act this way if you don't receive the suggested wealth per the DMG? Or if the DM creates his own monsters with abilities you have never seen before? Or if the DM describes some weird humanoid beastman but uses the stats for an orc? "The DM is nothing without his players:" True to an extent, but the DM is also due some amount of respect for all the hard work he puts into his game. My players often go one Friday to the next without even a glance at their character. I am either writing or reading all week long preparing. A player of mine recently became overly disruptive. I took some of the blame for allowing myself to be sucked into assinine arguments during game time. As half the problem I offered to step down and let someone else run. I got three "I'm too new I wouldn't be able," two "I'm too busy to run an ongoing campaign," and from the disruptive one (who I actually suggested should run to show me how it was done "correctly") a "Um, it would take me a while to get something ready, um, why don't you keep running?" Yeah, mean old nasty DM, you suck but we don't want your job. If it happens again I'm going to hand my DMG to someone, move from the head of the table and pull out a character sheet. Who running, I'm ready to whine!
celtredleg 03-19-07, 02:31 PM	I've DMed for 3 years straight. I know what my players will and will not take from me. I'm nothing without my players so it's best to keep on their good side (and for them to keep on mine). My group has played too long together for us to break up because of small arguments (added to the fact that they're all my personal friends), so we always compromise. You'd be surprised at how little credit DMs often give their players. And how often players whine when every little thing is not thier way. You are fortunate that you have had a stable group of friends to play with. Wait a few years until you get wider experience, and run into some of the real whackos that play this game. In any group except old friends, if the DM is not firmly in charge, it will rapidly turn into chaos. There are a million ways to play this game, but you have to play it one way at a time. If the DM lets every player decide on his own changes, you get an unplayable mess quickly. I find it instructive that the OP still has not come back. He emited a whine expecting sympathy, and got less than he wanted, so now he wont reply, that should tell you something, if you are really as good a DM as you claim.
Ace_of_time 03-19-07, 05:40 PM	No players can't veto. Yes the DM is the soul person in charge off every thing in the game if he or she doesn't think a group is a challenge and less it is up to him/her period end of that. Now he has the duty to make things fun and to listen to what the players want in the game and helping them get that if it will not cause trouble. He should talk to the player and then as a group talk to the DM. One player saying things aren't right maybe whining but if the whole group is having the same problem then it need to be fix or they need a new DM. But getting a new DM should be a last step.
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-19-07, 07:11 PM	Wow, V_T I always thought you had way more than three years under your belt... I only have three, but I seem to have a knack for it. My first adventure, which I designed while still learning the rules, was a huge succes and I still sometimes use it today with only minor fluff and mechanic adjustments. My FLGS also regularly holds a RPG get-together. I frequently enlist as a DM and DM for a random bunch of total strangers. I've encountered whiners that almost cried when their character died, despite having nothing to do with the creation (poor sheltered bastards). In my own, group, I tolerate whining (it isn't really whining in those cases), because they don't do that normally. Last Sunday, I had my second session... ever, as a player. My character died pretty soon, but the DM agreed to let him come back later, when the concept would be more viable (there was a roleplaying justification for it, too). However, after reading some of the replies on this thread I'm going to formally apologize to you (V_T) for ever calling you an elitist. :P Eh, I can be a little arrogant. ;P I still maintain that the DM and players should work together, even while world-building. I'm not saying the players should have a say in everything, but they might be allowed to create a hometown for their characters, a PrC/feat they're interested in taking or even a plot hook that the DM might exploit, and the DM should run any questionable houserules by his players before he implements them (by questionable, I mean someting like low-XP campaigns, low-magic campaigns, allowing the players to play characters like the Twice Betrayer of Shar or Warhulking Hurler), in case the players might have a real problem with them. If I got 20 XP for killing a Minotaur (assuming I contributed to the combat), I wouldn't be too happy with my DM, especially if he hadn't told me about it beforehand. So the DM should say something like "I'm thinking this'll be a low-XP campaign. I'll be handing out a lot fewer XP per encounter. It's just to make it last longer/prevent too much powergaming/make you focus on the story." Don't just drop a bomb. Never drop a bomb, because the players might be assuming you're running a standard campaign with only a few houserules and the houserules might disrupt the character they made. Telling the players about it beforehand and maybe compromising is way easier than suddenly introducing a houserule they never knew about and run the risk of a player abandoning the group. Compromising is also sound because there is a distinct possibility that the DM might be making a mistake if his players don't seem happy with a houserule. In short, my philosophy as a DM and a player: The players should get a pawprint on the campaign, same as the DM gets a pawprint on the characters.
PhaedrusXY 03-19-07, 07:43 PM	No players can't veto.Yes, they can. It's called "voting with your feet". What is this thread, anyway? Let's play "who's the oldest fart on the boards"? Here's a hint: Playing a game for ages 10 and up when you're 40+ doesn't mean you're mature.
SokenzanMarauder 03-19-07, 07:47 PM	snip for space saver Ya see V_T, with your initial post I was in a semi-disagree/semi-agree with you mode. However, after reading that, I must say that I completely agree with your style of DMing. *two cookies* Though I know how it feels having hardly any player time. Out of my ten years, I'd say just a little over two has been spent playing. -Gene
celtredleg 03-19-07, 07:56 PM	Yes, they can. It's called "voting with your feet". What is this thread, anyway? Let's play "who's the oldest fart on the boards"? Here's a hint: Playing a game for ages 10 and up when you're 40+ doesn't mean you're mature. Nor does playing it less when you are younger. What the thread was about, is either a complaint about incompatible expectations between a DM and a player, or a whine by a player. There is not enough data given by the OP to tell which. And he hasnt checked back in. The DM certainly could be a short richard, but we dont really know. I dont mind slow progress games, but I do like to know upfront. However, I dont see 2 levels a month to be slow. Its not a race. As for feet voteing, thats one of my favorite responses to a poor situation. There are way more players than there ever have been before. Life is to short to waste it with people who dont view the game similarly to how you do. Even when they are not really the idiots you perceive them to be.
Mystic Theurge 03-19-07, 09:30 PM	I would like to point out that in the Unearthed Arcana there is a variant rule that allows for fixed XP for monsters similar to the old AD&D rules, and perhaps the DM is using this rules set. Perhaps he likes it that way as opposed to having to calculate XP using formulae. It seems to be alot more work to me, but who knows? Being 3rd level after a month of playing? I think it depends on how often you play. If it's once a month, that is a very fast rate. If it's twice a week, it's probably a well paced game. If it's every day, you have my pity.
Ace_of_time 03-19-07, 09:44 PM	Yes, they can. It's called "voting with your feet". What is this thread, anyway? Let's play "who's the oldest fart on the boards"? Here's a hint: Playing a game for ages 10 and up when you're 40+ doesn't mean you're mature. I'm 27. And that just called leaveing. and that should only be the last thing you try.
aotrscommander 03-20-07, 10:27 AM	Given that the XP for a minotaur in AD&D as of the Monstrous Manual was worth 1400 XP, and at ECL 1-3 is worth 1350, I think if anything, you're better off under the older system! 75 hp is not possible for a out-of-the-book version of either, however. So either the minotaur had an elite array, character classes, the DM is in fact awarding XP nothing like AD&D or the OP is not quoting an actual example. I play 2.5 hours per group per week, and going up to level 3 inside a month would be considered pretty good going (you might make level 2 in that time!) My first thought when reading the 3.0 DMG was "300 XP for an Orc?! No way!" My initial opinion was that the XP awarded was way too quick for character advancement, which leads to shorter character playability life. So we just use mostly half combat XP (save for BBEG type fights) and then add story awards. This rate of advancement has actually turned out well, since we have now had characters of up to 14th level (the highest recorded in AD&D was 10th (and that was a Bard). I'm afraid V_T, I have to say that I'm with the DM makes the rules camp (o' course, I am Lawful after all...) That experience is coloured, though, by the fact I've been playing and DMing for the last 17 years and we've never had a DM that made a houserule that was stupid or specifically designed to screw the PCs. Come to think of it, the phrase 'houserule' never even cropped up until I started frequenting these boards, it was just and unspoken rule that the DM decided the rules, and still is. My exposure to the boards has lead me to many revelations, not least of which is that other people play a different way to me! Before I came here, I never would have even considered some of things that I do now. (I actually asked my players last game what method they would like to use for generating stats, rolling or (my) point-buy! However, the response - total apathy - does somewhat support my view that the DM is responcible for the rules, since half the time, the players don't really care! My group's style is both a great blessing (I can run pretty much whatever and however I like as they won't back an eyelid) and less of a blessing when they fateful words "okay, party, what do you do next?" make they way with such undue optimism in the direction of the conversion! (I'd like to think I'm slightly better myself when playing, but that's only either due to mechanical ideas or arrogance!)) The only time that players should get a say in what rules is when the DM is Being An Arse, and that would be better dealt via CryoSilver's method or my own.
Matthew77 03-20-07, 01:48 PM	My DM is using the old version of dnd with 3.5 and that completely screws up the xp. Ive been getting 20 xp for killing a 75 hp minoutaur. He's convinced hes right and wont change. Ive been playing my paladin for a month and am only level 3.:( Maybe the DM is reserving significant EXP awards for actions that advance the storyline or achive meaningful character goals. Maybe the OP is in the habit of blowing off his character's motivations and saying "lets just go off in the woods and kill stuff to get EXP." In that case killing some random Minotaur wouldn't be worth much. This may not be the case, but I can think of plenty of scenarios where killing a Minotaur would not deserve an EXP award for the party. When it comes to EXP, trust your DM. The only times I would complain is if certain players recieved drastically higher EXP than the others, or if the pace of gaining levels was so slow that I started to lose interest in the game.
Wonder_Petz 03-20-07, 05:18 PM	I like leveling like everyone. But that's not the point of the game. I'd rather have fun w/ my friends then power level. Thanks for all the suggestions.
Vyvyan Basterd 03-20-07, 05:21 PM	I like leveling like everyone. But that's not the point of the game. I'd rather have fun w/ my friends then power level. Thanks for all the suggestions. I want some of whatever you're having! First you complain the DM's giving out too little XP and now you say you don't enjoy leveling too fast (if I understand what the heck you are saying)? Language barrier? Playing from inside the institution with white walls? :confused:
Ace_of_time 03-20-07, 05:34 PM	Ok people It has already been stated by the OP that there was no minotaur. The OP was giving us an exsample of what was happening he never really fought one.
funnymanmike 03-20-07, 05:35 PM	i as a dm find the xp too fast, beacuse we've played d&d 2e so long and it took us forever to level, our group actuly likes going slowly for xp.. how i do it is each game night your given a set amount of xp, no matter what you do, who you fight or how well you roleplay, they realy like it since they don't ahve to worry about fighing x monsters to try and get some xp for the night and still roleplay here is the chart i use Level / # of game nights required to level Levels 3-5 each take 3 nights Levels 6-9 each take 4 nights Levels 10-14 each take 5 nights Levels 15-20 each take 6 nights Levels 21-27 each take 7 nights if you look hard you can see the pattern i used. we figured it out, and after a year of roleplaying, they should be level 12. i find it focuses more on the game instead of worring about how much xp you get after each fight, at the end of the night you get your xp, and then if you level thats the time to do it. roll your hp in front of the DM and have the rest ready for next week. however i do agree if you pick a rules system use all of the rules system, i am strickt 3.5 (no 3.0 stuff allowed) however my own xp is used.
Vyvyan Basterd 03-20-07, 05:36 PM	Ok people It has already been stated by the OP that there was no minotaur. The OP was giving us an exsample of what was happening he never really fought one. So? I know I am still confused as to how the DM actually went mad as the subject of this thread states.
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-20-07, 06:16 PM	So? I know I am still confused as to how the DM actually went mad as the subject of this thread states. Maybe he went mad in an unrelated incident.
Vyvyan Basterd 03-20-07, 06:23 PM	Maybe he went mad in an unrelated incident. Maybe he read this thread. :D
SokenzanMarauder 03-20-07, 06:34 PM	Maybe he read this thread. :D Could you honestly blame him? -Gene
Ace_of_time 03-20-07, 07:49 PM	Maybe the DM flip and killed all the other players and this guy is the one who got away. The Dm found him and finished him off but in the fight they hit enter and post the first thread so the 2nd post by the OP was really DM trying to cover up.