Post/Author/DateTime	Post
StalkerEntreri 04-18-07, 07:37 PM	I am playing a Tiefling Rogue; and I am trying to play my character as Chaotic Neutral; I tried to steal from someone in the bar and he wouldn't let me; and then he faces us up with enemies that are about 100 feet away; says they already know we are there even though I was making hide/move silently checks while walking. He has no traps for me to disable, he doesn't let me use my skills and we're fighting Necromancers...undead are a rogue's worst enemy, do you have any advice? If nothing else I want to at least **** him off with this character before I make another one
danielinthewolvesden 04-18-07, 07:45 PM	I am playing a Tiefling Rogue; and I am trying to play my character as Chaotic Neutral; I tried to steal from someone in the bar and he wouldn't let me; .... Sorry, I never met your character and from just these two facts I already hate him too. You appear to be playing a disruptive PC, always annoying to everyone EXCEPT the guy playing him. And you seem to think that rogues are theives, which they are NOT.
kelvinaw273 04-18-07, 07:46 PM	There are some feats somewhere that allow your sneak-attacks to work on undead, I'm sure someone will call them out? Otherwise I can only suggest a few levels of Wizard (Necromancer) and make good use of Invisibility to Undead ...
Zankue 04-18-07, 07:49 PM	Sorry, I never met your character and from just these two facts I already hate him too. You appear to be playing a disruptive PC, always annoying to everyone EXCEPT the guy playing him. And you seem to think that rogues are theives, which they are NOT. I totally agree, CN is a way of saying I wanna be evil but my DM won't let me, so Im gonna be as close as I can get to it, and annoy the DM for not letting me be evil, try being a CG character that only steals when down on his luck. Definitely do not pi** off the DM this will just lead to worse things.
Rahlious 04-18-07, 08:08 PM	There are some feats somewhere that allow your sneak-attacks to work on undead, I'm sure someone will call them out? I'd like to know what those are too.
BoringInfoGuy 04-18-07, 08:14 PM	Sorry, I never met your character and from just these two facts I already hate him too. You appear to be playing a disruptive PC, always annoying to everyone EXCEPT the guy playing him. And you seem to think that rogues are theives, which they are NOT. Sorry, you are reading too much from too little. Chaotic Nuetral does not always mean disruptive player. (Nor does it always mean I really wanted to be evil, Zankue) And rogues can be thieves. It is no longer a requirement. But it is by no means banned. Now, StalkerEntreri does want to annoy the DM, which would be disruptive. But this could also be from annoyance over having his characters abilities negated. Imagine you made a character. Now imagine if every time you tried to use an ability, the DM comes up with a reason why it doesn't work. Wouldn't you be rather annoyed? Everyone wants a chance for their character to shine. So, who's really being the jerk here? The DM, the player, or both? I don't know. Not enough information. As for my advice to the OP. Don't bother trying to annoy the DM. There are no good results from this. Try talking with some of your fellow players. What is their take? Do they feel you are disrupting the group? Or do they think the DM is coming down hard on you? If your fellow players think it's you, then you need to either adjust your play style, or try to find a group that matches it. If it's the DM, then when you talk with him, you can point out that other players notice him giving your character a hard time. Or perhaps you may find that you are just making a mountain out of a molehill. You won't know until you start asking.
DyloniusFunk 04-18-07, 08:18 PM	Sorry, I never met your character and from just these two facts I already hate him too. You appear to be playing a disruptive PC, always annoying to everyone EXCEPT the guy playing him. And you seem to think that rogues are theives, which they are NOT. I totally agree, CN is a way of saying I wanna be evil but my DM won't let me, so Im gonna be as close as I can get to it, and annoy the DM for not letting me be evil, try being a CG character that only steals when down on his luck. Definitely do not pi** off the DM this will just lead to worse things. And the Jump To Conclusions squad has come onto the field :rolleyes: Ok the guy says he's stealing from a bar, where is that disruptive? He's not stealing from teh players, he's doing what rouges can do. They don't have to be thieves but they CAN be thieves and that's the kind of character the guy wants to play. Now again as long as it's only something he does against NPC characters so it's him vs the DM where is the harm. it's like " Ok guys meet you back at the inn, i got some stuff to do" and thats how he spends his downtime. If he tries it against players it's a different story To the OP it sounds like your DM is either new or has his head up his ass. DM's are supposed to provide a well rounded experience so every character get to shine. It sounds like this guy has made it his mission to screw your character over. Now the question is did you know you would be fighting undead when you made the rouge, or did the DM suggest another class?
KillerVole 04-18-07, 08:19 PM	Don't tick off the DM before you make a new character; that will just make him hate you (as opposed to the character). Ask him nicely if you can change your character for a new one. Don't blame him (some DMs can get irrationally defensive, and won't let you change). Instead, say, "I'm sorry to do this in the middle of the campaign, but a rogue really isn't working for my play style. Would you mind if I switched to a (insert class here) instead?" He'll probably let you, and then you can play a character that the DM can deal with. The DM probably just isn't used to thieves in his games. I once ran a five session quest with only undead enemies planned. After the second session, the party rogue complained. I'd completely forgotten that he couldn't use his abilities on undead, I added living enemies into the rest of the quest for him. A similar approach could work for you DM, if you want to keep this character. Ask him nicely if he can put in a few traps and living enemies, and maybe an ambush for you.
Dazzer 04-18-07, 08:27 PM	Two advice tads. One: Chaotic Neutral doesn't imply steal all you see. Two: At level 4, sub uncanny dodge for the PhB II substitution. When you would normally sneak attack, you don't. Instead you give a -5 penalty to AC for 1 round to the target of your sneak attack. This works on undead, elementals, and other things normally immune to SnK Attack. That will help you against the necromancers. Three: Ask the DM why you cannot use your skills, why things see you, and why nothing you do works. Ask nicely, politely, and tell him it isn't fun for you this way. Perhaps you'll find out he's been rolling so high on spot, or whatnot, that you really are just failing rather than not using. IF YOU MUST steal all that you see, or at least attempt to steal. Follow the Sleight-of-Hand rules detailed in the PhB. DC 20: Take something They get opposed spot, if they succeed, they see you. Although you still take the item in question if you meet DC 20. Have fun.
Kouk 04-18-07, 08:58 PM	The DM may have been trying to avoid getting you killed, or a TPK by stopping you from trying to rob people. If you were trying to steal in a crowded room full of drunk sailors, and you get caught with your hand in their first mate's pockets, they may all attack you. Maybe your mark just happened to be an important NPC that was 5 levels above you. Hiding and sneaking can be tricky sometimes. If you were trying to sneak around something with, say, 120' darkvision you would need cover or some non-darkness concealment. Ask him why exactly you couldn't hide, so you can be better prepared. Just because you may have successfully hidden and/or moved silently doesn't mean the rest of the party next to you was making any effort to hide at all. Were you moving at half your speed or less? If not you start taking penalties. Undead often have nasty traits for seeing in the dark also. With the undead, you shouldn't expect the campaign plans to change totally just because someone made a rogue. Unless this entire campaign is going to be undead intensive I wouldn't change my character much, you will probably get past this adventure. But then again if you expect the character to die soon you may as well go full on fighting the current threat. As for traps, where have you been so far? It is possible the traps are coming, but don't be afraid to remind him you would like to disable some traps.
TwistedPuppy 04-18-07, 09:50 PM	If nothing else I want to at least **** him off with this character before I make another one Okay, way wrong. If you really want to do this, be prepared to not make a new character, because the DM may ask you to leave the game. You might also consider that by doing so you are going to take away from the enjoyment of the other players in the game. I can guarantee in that case every player there will remember how you acted. So you have to weigh the possibility that not only will the DM not want you in his games in the future, but the other players may not want you in their games either. Edit: I don't know about Minnesota, but down here word of players who intentionally cause problems gets around. Bear in mind the old adage about needing 100 "attaboys" to make up for one "oh ****" Maybe the DM is being a jerk, but there isn't enough information to say one way or the other. Even if he is, things won't get better just by proving you can be a bigger jerk than he is.
Volafor 04-18-07, 11:43 PM	StalkerEntreri, have you openly discussed this with your DM? If not, you should; approach him/her outside of game, and tell him/her up front that you feel like your character is being treated unfairly. Calmly explain your reasoning, and cite specific examples of this perceived unfairness. If your DM is halfway decent, s/he should be willing to at least talk it over with you, so that you can both air your feelings. Compromise will probably be possible, provided your DM isn't hell-bent on killing you. In that case, don't stay with that DM; find another group. When dealing with your DM, it's an extremely bad idea to get passive aggressive "revenge." While this is in no way a condemnation of your current actions, I will agree with TwistedPuppy, and say that if I were your DM, and you deliberately messed up everyone else's game just because you were angry with me, you would be asked to leave. Your best bet is to air the issue in private, out of game--at the start of your next session, perhaps. Best of luck to you! :) ------------------- ...CN is a way of saying I wanna be evil but my DM won't let me... :ahem: I beg to differ. At worst, a well-played CN character will be a shiftless, irresponsible, self-motivated fence sitter who refuses to embark on any major undertaking without a personal motivation to do so. There's no reason why a well-played CN character should ever be confused with an Evil one, except, perhaps, if your CN character is rabid about their attachment to important persons, ideals, or things, in which case they might kill to protect those important persons, ideals, or things. As a matter of fact, it mentions in the Player's Handbook that it's perfectly reasonable for a CN character to slightly favor Good over Evil, based on the notion that most people don't want to surround themselves with Evil beings.
StalkerEntreri 04-18-07, 11:47 PM	To everyone; thanks for the input. But I don't think a lot of you tried to read the post as aposed to skim it and try to flame me. I wanted my character to steal the one time; did I say that he was trying to steal all the time? No. The DM rolled no rolls against my hide/move silently, since he had no screen and no books up; I could plainly see when he was rolling. And for the last post; I don't wanna **** him off to the point where I get kicked out of my group; I love the people I play with; I just want to annoy him to a point and then tell him that's how I feel because he is dis-including me character. And normally I wouldn't mind this; but he allowed a completely new race/class combination to be played before they were finished; and to completely min/max out that character; he was going to be a Duskblade he made for another campaign and the campaign he made it for that one single Duskblade could cast spells from any list and the DM wouldn't listen to me that that was extremely broken; I just think that he doesn't wanna take my advice because he played a Cleric in another game; a good Cleric mind you, and all he prepared was cure spells; I told him that he could change out his spells for healing spells; and have more spells available to be better in different situations; but he wouldn't listen to me. Then I suggested that he try and play a Healer; cause if he wants to be a healer then why not play the Healer class? I dunno
Volafor 04-19-07, 12:15 AM	To everyone; thanks for the input. But I don't think a lot of you tried to read the post as aposed to skim it and try to flame me. And for the last post; I don't wanna **** him off to the point where I get kicked out of my group; I love the people I play with; I just want to annoy him to a point and then tell him that's how I feel because he is dis-including me character. I apologize if you felt flamed by what I said, because that wasn't my intent. I maintain that your best bet is to approach your DM, though there does seem to be some unfairness happening. If the DM wants to keep you as a PC, he'll listen to you, and at least try to respect you.
Nall_The_Azure_Guardian 04-19-07, 12:18 AM	I'd like to know what those are too. You might be thinking of Darkstalker - lords of madness page 179 which lets you hide from things you normally couldn't (blindsense, blindfight and the like) I seem to remember an example somewhere of a remade class to be an undead hunter that got sneak only against undead in one of the DMGs Sacred Strike [exalted] page 45 BoED lets you overcome good DR and makes the dice into d8s But I don't know of anything that lets you sneak attack against undead, they have no organs, its hard to do
daggeroflath 04-19-07, 12:58 AM	I once had a player complain to me that their rogue was useless against the undead... until I pointed out that at the very beginning of the game I'd told everyone this game was a playtest of the Libris Mortis book (that guy never listens to me when he makes his characters...) Your DM should give you some warning about what the campaign is going to be about. If he doesn't, then ask him what kind of game it is and what kinds of characters can fit in it. Some problems are really that easy to solve.
Tyraxus 04-19-07, 01:00 AM	Check out the Penetrating Strike variant from Dungeonscape. You give up trap sense for the ability to do at least a couple of sneak attack damage dice to flanked undead (or maybe anything immune to crits, I can't remember and don't have my books on me atm).
TwistedPuppy 04-19-07, 01:14 AM	And for the last post; I don't wanna **** him off to the point where I get kicked out of my group; I love the people I play with; I just want to annoy him to a point and then tell him that's how I feel because he is dis-including me character. Don't try to solve this problem in the game, you need to speak with the DM outside the game. What if he's having a bad day and you annoy him "just to a point" and he either throws you out or just shuts down the game and leaves? Regardless of the degree of annoyance you are trying for, it is going to have an effect on others at the table. AGAIN: DO NOT TRY TO SOLVE THIS DURING THE GAME. BY DOING SO YOU ARE INVOLVING THE OTHER PLAYERS IN YOUR PROBLEM WITH THE DM. THAT IS NOT FAIR TO THE DM OR THE OTHER PLAYERS. And normally I wouldn't mind this; but he allowed a completely new race/class combination to be played before they were finished; and to completely min/max out that character; he was going to be a Duskblade he made for another campaign and the campaign he made it for that one single Duskblade could cast spells from any list and the DM wouldn't listen to me that that was extremely broken; What do you mean played before they were finished, and what is completely min/max out the character? Did you explain to him why it was broken? I just think that he doesn't wanna take my advice because he played a Cleric in another game; a good Cleric mind you, and all he prepared was cure spells; I told him that he could change out his spells for healing spells; and have more spells available to be better in different situations; but he wouldn't listen to me. Then I suggested that he try and play a Healer; cause if he wants to be a healer then why not play the Healer class? I dunno I'd say get someone else to talk to him, as it sounds as if you've been critical - overly or not I can't say, I wasn't there - and he has become very defensive about what he's doing when you make suggestions. If you are continuously telling him what he's doing is wrong, or he should do something some other way, at some point he's just going to tune you out.
StalkerEntreri 04-19-07, 01:46 AM	The thing about a duskblade who can cast any spell from any list is broken is the fact that any class that can cast any spell from any list is broken. I just try and make suggestions because during battle he doesn't really do anything because he has no good spells; and he says that all his spells suck except for the healing ones, so I give him a suggestion and then he just turns it down right off the bat because he doesn't have th book; I mean I know people in our group who have the book. Dunno though And I didn't say it before but I didn't know before the game that we were going to be fighting undead
Krusk 04-19-07, 11:55 AM	1-you are CN rogue, who steals pocket change- to a level 4 character- Do you really need to bother with this? eats up game time i can see why he is annoyed. stealing is one thing, but stealing 2gp on a lucky roll is quite another. 2-hide/move silent checks while walking, 1 what were you hiding behind? 2 were the rest of the party? he may have ment they know everyone else is there. 3-no traps, means he dosn't like traps thats just his dm style. 4-as for the undead, grab the item in MIC that lets you sneak attack them. OR is the necromancer himself undead? target him. also you could always try picking up some vials of holy water, and use them during the fight.
BoringInfoGuy 04-19-07, 11:58 AM	Wait, is the DM playing the all spells allowed Duskblade?
StalkerEntreri 04-19-07, 12:27 PM	We were in a giant forest; literally giant the tree's are mile's across; so I was walking and hiding behind parts of tree's; etc. And no the rest of the party wasn't; but because they are aware of them doesn't mean they are aware of me And I was just gonna steal from some random commoner; seemed like what a Chaotic Neutral Tiefling with the Demon bloodline Rogue would be doing in a tavern; plus that is the character I wanted to play. Ever heard of Tasslehoff Burfoot? Yeah...kinda like that. But it doesn't matter because I made a new character for the game
Nephlite 04-19-07, 12:34 PM	1-you are CN rogue, who steals pocket change- to a level 4 character- Do you really need to bother with this? eats up game time i can see why he is annoyed. stealing is one thing, but stealing 2gp on a lucky roll is quite another. What is his character supposed to be poor? Stealing is both flavor and monetary rationale. Profession skills are used to make money and so can Perform and Sleight of hand.
lylac 04-19-07, 12:40 PM	If i was a DM i would hate you also.
Krusk 04-19-07, 04:14 PM	you were hind in the trees. did the DM announce "he sees you guys" or did he announce "they see lylac's character hiding" if the first you just assumed you guys included you. if the second ask the DM not to just have every enemy auto succeed things like that. i read a couple of the dragonlance, remember a bit of tasselhoff. Thing is, he didn't steal from random people. as i remember he loathed thiefs. He just accidently found things, and forgot to give them back. Or if he noticed something was in a position to be stolen by someone he would grab it first, so thieves didn't. As for stealing maybe 2pg from a commoner, why on earth would you bother? go adventure for 15 min and you find at lease 3x this in loot, without risking being thrown in jail. If you need to make money in your spare time, ask the DM to have you roll sleight of hand during your free time. "ok what do you guys do for the next 2 hours until X opens up?" ill roll sleight of hand what do i make pick pocketing? ok cool.
Khoran 04-19-07, 04:56 PM	All I can offer advice for is the traps and the Undead. For the traps, talk to your DM and ask him if you could bring in that so that you could make the most of your class. I remember my first campaign there was 2 trap in the entire game and I only got to disarm one of them. I talked to the DM, next time we did a campaign, there were enough traps. And for the Undead, if you have the Spell Compendium, get a Wand of Spark of Life (The spell is on Pg 196-197). It makes Undead vulnerable to Critical Hits and Sneak Attack. 3rd level cleric or 4th level druid spell.
DoomDuck 04-19-07, 05:41 PM	i read a couple of the dragonlance, remember a bit of tasselhoff. Thing is, he didn't steal from random people. as i remember he loathed thiefs. He just accidently found things, and forgot to give them back. Or if he noticed something was in a position to be stolen by someone he would grab it first, so thieves didn't. Just had to comment on this - Tas was in fact stealing from all those people, as did all kender. The fact that he was "finding items" and "forgetting" was his innocent rationale - he wasn't really consciously aware of stealing things, he just did it without thought. It wasn't to say he was actually just finding things. (This is more clear if you read more Dragonlance.) ~DD
kelvinaw273 04-19-07, 05:47 PM	Just had to comment on this - Tas was in fact stealing from all those people, as did all kender. The fact that he was "finding items" and "forgetting" was his innocent rationale - he wasn't really consciously aware of stealing things, he just did it without thought. It wasn't to say he was actually just finding things. (This is more clear if you read more Dragonlance.) ~DD Kender suffer from racial kleptomania. It isn't that they set out to steal, they just pick up anything valuable that isn't nailed down.
Krusk 04-19-07, 06:29 PM	Just had to comment on this - Tas was in fact stealing from all those people, as did all kender. The fact that he was "finding items" and "forgetting" was his innocent rationale - he wasn't really consciously aware of stealing things, he just did it without thought. It wasn't to say he was actually just finding things. (This is more clear if you read more Dragonlance.) ~DD just to comment... thats exactly what i said. he pocketed everything he could, but genuinly intended to be helpful by it. i remember the quote something along the lines of "i noticed it was just laying there begging for a thief to take it, so i grabbed it to make sure it was safe"
Count_Chumleigh 04-19-07, 07:38 PM	Stalker, I have to say that I would hate your character, too. This is not a pronouncement against you, only the chaotic neutral tielfling rogue you are playing, and how you are playing him or her. You haven't posted anything about his or her personality, so all I have to go by is race, class, and alignment. This is bad enough in and of itself, but those elements are a pretty hateful combination as well. First, you're a tiefling. The only thing that keeps tieflings less annoying than drow is the fact that there isn't any scimitar-wielding tiefling running around in fanfiction, nor any clones thereof. Mind you, being a tiefling doesn't autmomatically make your character an emo douchebag, but neither does it make your character any more likeable and/or awesome. Second, you're a tiefling rogue. Rogues are awesome, yes, but tiefling rogues have an air of extreme untrustworthiness about them--not something I'd want to adventure with or play in a game with. Third, you're a chaotic neutral tiefling rogue. Again, chaotic netural is a fine alignment, but in the hands of any rogue--let alone a tiefling rogue--it just screams out, "DO NO TRUST ME; I WANTED TO PLAY EVIL BUT THE DM WOULDN'T LET ME SO NOW I'M CHAOTIC NEUTRAL KTHNXBY." In other words, the combination of your race, class, and alignment lends itself strongly towards being, at least, annoying and disruptive. And sure enough, the first actions you describe your chaotic neutral tiefling rogue as doing are stealing from random commoners--no, scratch that, every commoner--in a tavern. While it is admirable that you didn't steal from party members, wasting valuable game time stealing pittance from peasants is just, well, wasteful. Not to mention stupid, since a barfull of irked peasants is going to blame the tiefling regardless of actual guilt in all likelihood. In summary, try to act against type every now and again. It will do wonders for you and your DM's relationship. Cheers, --Count Chumleigh
danielinthewolvesden 04-19-07, 11:12 PM	Kender suffer from racial kleptomania. It isn't that they set out to steal, they just pick up anything valuable that isn't nailed down. And, altho they are fun to read about, they are also super freaking annoying to play with. But at least they have "comedy relief" working for them, while I do not think this new PC has anything working for him.:P
tahngarth40 04-20-07, 01:28 AM	Most necromancers are squishy and sneak attack ready. Ask your DM if its going to be primarily undead, and if it is than you may want to consider playing something else. Its nice when DMs accomidate their players as much as they can but I find its usually easier for players to accomidate their DM to an extent as well, (that way its 4-6 people trying to keep it within 1 persons playstyle, instead of one person trying to make it 4-6 peoples playstyle) If you don't like the overpowered things that are allowed but nobody else seems to mind, it may be time to search for another group or adapt.
trapspringer 04-20-07, 01:01 PM	Two advice tads. One: Chaotic Neutral doesn't imply steal all you see. Two: At level 4, sub uncanny dodge for the PhB II substitution. When you would normally sneak attack, you don't. Instead you give a -5 penalty to AC for 1 round to the target of your sneak attack. This works on undead, elementals, and other things normally immune to SnK Attack. That will help you against the necromancers. Three: Ask the DM why you cannot use your skills, why things see you, and why nothing you do works. Ask nicely, politely, and tell him it isn't fun for you this way. Perhaps you'll find out he's been rolling so high on spot, or whatnot, that you really are just failing rather than not using. IF YOU MUST steal all that you see, or at least attempt to steal. Follow the Sleight-of-Hand rules detailed in the PhB. DC 20: Take something They get opposed spot, if they succeed, they see you. Although you still take the item in question if you meet DC 20. Have fun. Good Advice. Do that stuff. Ask your DM about the substituion (nicely) pointing out that you didn't know this was going to be an undead campaign, and would like the oppourtunity to play a character more suited to the style of the game.
Alastor_Sevryn 04-20-07, 01:19 PM	Seems sa though it's another case of someone not letting you RP your character. If he's not constantly stealing, then what's the problem? As for the chaotic neutral, I always play that alignment. you just need to know how to do it. for everyone who was asking: truedeath crystal - magic item compendium allows sneak attack on undead, not sure about the price.
Zoycitenega 04-20-07, 10:51 PM	Seems sa though it's another case of someone not letting you RP your character. If he's not constantly stealing, then what's the problem? As for the chaotic neutral, I always play that alignment. you just need to know how to do it. for everyone who was asking: truedeath crystal - magic item compendium allows sneak attack on undead, not sure about the price. True death crystal, greater: 10,000 gp and you need a +3 weapon.
Galahdeon 04-20-07, 11:19 PM	well i haven't had a Dm that Hates my character yet, but i was trying to **** off several of my Dm's character. i like testing the bounds of characters will and how far i can push them before they what to strangle me. hey i get a kick out of it, anyway i think i had a point as a dm that i did have a player i was trying to work with but he sort of started working against me. part of a dm doing something that is your weakness is part of their job testing you and your party to the point break, one thing i sent out before i started my campaign was a mission statment on how i will treat their characters and what rights they have playing in my campaign, one part says that i will do what ever i feel is neccessary to challenge their PC, even kill if i feel they are being stupid. so be carefull on what you do, that in cludes asking a dwarf for a weapon to kill elves when the two races are trying to work with a fragal aliance (anoying Power gamer half giant Barbarian).
trapspringer 04-20-07, 11:47 PM	Also remember that just 'cuz there is nothing wrong with your charcter doesn't mean you aren't ****ing up masterfully. The actualy mechanical aspect of D&D is just a core around which to wrap all the hanging out and goofin' off of the people sitting at the table. If your character's actions in game disrupt that social environment, you are doing something wrong. (You can make the argument that it is "the group" that is the problem, but really that point is moot. Their are more of them, so rather than expecting them to leave or change, well... you know.)
Rommel013 04-22-07, 11:28 AM	Count Chumleigh, all of your issues with his character were based on the assumed roleplaying angle his character would/ is doing. Yet you then scold him for Roleplaying in the exact way you described he should? It seems to me that the DM does have a bone to pick with this particular player for whatever reason. Granted as DM's we've all fudged a roll, be it for the benefit of the players or their opponents because it NEEDED to happen for the plot to make sense. However, it would appear that the DM's action go above and beyond that. It seems that this player is being penalized for Roleplaying his character the way he designed it. I personally don't understand why this is. If he wants to pick pockets for idle change, all it does is add to the flavor of the character. Take up time? How long does it take to roll a few dice and for the DM to come up with a small amount of cash?
Count_Chumleigh 04-22-07, 02:53 PM	Count Chumleigh, all of your issues with his character were based on the assumed roleplaying angle his character would/ is doing. Yet you then scold him for Roleplaying in the exact way you described he should? It seems to me that the DM does have a bone to pick with this particular player for whatever reason. Granted as DM's we've all fudged a roll, be it for the benefit of the players or their opponents because it NEEDED to happen for the plot to make sense. However, it would appear that the DM's action go above and beyond that. It seems that this player is being penalized for Roleplaying his character the way he designed it. I personally don't understand why this is. If he wants to pick pockets for idle change, all it does is add to the flavor of the character. Take up time? How long does it take to roll a few dice and for the DM to come up with a small amount of cash? Under this logic, Rommel, no DM would be able to "scold" a player whose concept is "murderous sociopath," nevermind how many random NPCs he's murdered for no reason at all or all the time he's taken up starting fights with the town guard. After all, he's such a higher level than them that they're worth no experience at all and the fight is really over by the time initiative is rolled anyway. Regarding my "assumptions," well, you're mostly right. When I see "Chaotic Neutral Tiefling Rogue," experience tells me it's either going to be an angsty "cloaked figure" loner (who really has no business in a group-based game) or a "Chaotic Stabby" douchebag who exists only to prey on first-level NPCs. There are some archetypes I just plain don't like, and when I DM I go as far as I can without physically striking the player in question to persuade him or her to for the love of god play something else. 2nd-Edition thieves, detect-thump paladins, prankster gnomes, most elves, Thog the Barbarian, Scottish dwarves who don't actually have a Celtic theme--these are just a few of the archetypes that, roleplayed properly, are either disruptive to games or just plain annoying, and I don't like them, and there's not a blessed thing anyone can do about that. Your mileage may vary, and there's not a blessed thing I can do about that, either. However, for the record, I never actually said that my read on Stalker's character was how he "should" be played, only that it was how he was being played. Cheers, --Count Chumleigh
Kuronue 04-22-07, 04:13 PM	To the OP: Your real mistake was mentioning CN on these boards. Didn't you know that CN isn't a real alignment, it's just shorthand for "psychopathic disruptive character"? It was in the latest errata. @.@ I've actually just introduced a CN tiefling (or maybe halffiend, I havn't rolled her up yet) NPC, debating the class as well (they're just chatting, I'll have a sheet before I make any rolls). So far, she's mostly been struggling with the language barrier of being new at learning common, and she's made a few not-quite-PC statements (such as "babies are good for drugs") based on the fact that she grew up in the 9 Hells, so of course she doesn't know much about the way the material planes work. She shows up as faintly evil because she's leaning towards evil, but she's trying so hard to become good...
Ace_of_time 04-22-07, 09:11 PM	I am playing a Tiefling Rogue; and I am trying to play my character as Chaotic Neutral; I tried to steal from someone in the bar and he wouldn't let me; and then he faces us up with enemies that are about 100 feet away; says they already know we are there even though I was making hide/move silently checks while walking. He has no traps for me to disable, he doesn't let me use my skills and we're fighting Necromancers...undead are a rogue's worst enemy, do you have any advice? If nothing else I want to at least **** him off with this character before I make another one What did the DM tell you about the game world before you rolled this PC? Does your DM like to use traps? What were you trying to steal? What were the enemies?
Ace_of_time 04-22-07, 09:19 PM	We were in a giant forest; literally giant the tree's are mile's across; so I was walking and hiding behind parts of tree's; etc. And no the rest of the party wasn't; but because they are aware of them doesn't mean they are aware of me And I was just gonna steal from some random commoner; seemed like what a Chaotic Neutral Tiefling with the Demon bloodline Rogue would be doing in a tavern; plus that is the character I wanted to play. Ever heard of Tasslehoff Burfoot? Yeah...kinda like that. But it doesn't matter because I made a new character for the game Tass doesn't steal things people ether drops them and he has to pick them up to give them back or borrows them and will return it when he meets them again.;) ha ha
pmurray@bigpond.com 04-23-07, 01:03 AM	[QUOTE=Count_Chumleigh;12153580Rogues are awesome, yes, but tiefling rogues have an air of extreme untrustworthiness about them--not something I'd want to adventure with or play in a game with.[/QUOTE] I'm playing a halfling Rogue/Warblade, and I'm going to ask the DM if I may apply the tiefling template at level 4 instead of going up a level (his demonic heritage has not manifested until now). It's a long shot, but it will be v. nice if he buys it. Dex 20 (weapon finesse, natch), darkvision, and some minor energy resistances.
lizzistardust 05-04-07, 04:41 PM	Sorry, I never met your character and from just these two facts I already hate him too. You appear to be playing a disruptive PC, always annoying to everyone EXCEPT the guy playing him. And you seem to think that rogues are theives, which they are NOT. Well, ya know, some rogues are thieves. Just because they gave the class a more general name, that hardly means that their previously suggested role has to be excluded now.
Johnny_Angel 05-04-07, 04:54 PM	I totally agree, CN is a way of saying I wanna be evil but my DM won't let me, so Im gonna be as close as I can get to it, and annoy the DM for not letting me be evil, try being a CG character that only steals when down on his luck. Definitely do not pi** off the DM this will just lead to worse things. I don't think that CN means that he's trying to be evil. The only thing the op mentioned was that he tried to steal from someone in a bar - definately NOT lawful, but not necessarily evil. True all Rogues aren't thieves, but Rogues can be thieves if the player controlling the character chooses for his character to act in that way. Honestly, I am still in the process of reading the thread, and I haven't read page 2 yet, but from what I've read so far, I don't see anything that makes the op wrong. What's wrong with a rogue trying to sneak up on his opponents?
danielinthewolvesden 05-04-07, 06:30 PM	Well, ya know, some rogues are thieves. Just because they gave the class a more general name, that hardly means that their previously suggested role has to be excluded now. Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger can be a great mugger or "stand and deliver" style thief. Wizards would be even better with magic. Bards would be perfect con-men. And so forth. Any class (well except Paladin and maybe Monk) can be a thief.
Ace_of_time 05-06-07, 11:52 PM	Why not monk?
danielinthewolvesden 05-07-07, 12:29 AM	Gotta be Lawful. Let us not get into a debate about whether or not it might be Lawful to steal, OK?