Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shaselai 01-28-05, 08:33 PM	It seems the DM is being unfair to couple players and more favorable to others- for example, we fought a group of drow and I killed their leader among others and the party finished off some small fries.. then when it came to loot i said "i will loot the leader" while others are busy healing and chatting etc. DM: " from the leader you find a magic whip +1 and a magic ring water walking and glove dex +2" (i have better stuff than those and he knows it) Me: "ok, what about the bodyguard?" DM: "he has some drow armor that turns to dust when shined by sunlight and 10pp" After he told me that he immediately told the party sorcerer DM" while you were searching the wizard drow (the player didnt declare he was searching AT ALL) you find a cape of displacement Minor." I think he was being a bit unfair in the fact that it seems the stuff a measly wizard (~L7 from the fireball dice roll that were made) can have something that valuble (25K) while i get crap. I mean i cant really use any of those anyway- but thank god the sorcerer will need to make a difficult decision between that cape and the +4 charisma from his cape :) Also, the DM tries to give "powerful pcs" crap while pcs who he likes the good stuff. I understand that perhaps sometimes games should be balanced but the way he handed out stuff didnt make sense- the leader should have better stuff that a wizard- not some crap that I - and other PCs cant even use. We are L10- a +1 whip or +2 dex is not gonna cut it... So what should I do?
fdnickerson 01-28-05, 08:57 PM	The party should pool loot.
shaselai 01-28-05, 10:28 PM	Pool loot... thats a new one... people in the party are greedy... theres no way the sorcerer is going to give up anything that will enhance him.
CycloneRanger 01-28-05, 10:42 PM	It seems to me that you are whining about something that is not even a problem. You have described a single instance of a DM giving out treasure that is not exactly even. Why do you think you should get more than anyone else anyway? Also, are you saying that your DM tailors the treasure so that the PCs can make use of it? That is ridiculous in my opinion. I equip my NPCs with whatever they would logically use. I don't care what the PCs do with it, or even if they can use it at all. In summary...I recommend that you get over it.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 01-28-05, 10:50 PM	Agreed. If a PC get a nice item, another get first pick next time. Or get more cash. I played once in a group where you got what was on the foe you looted. We ended up fighting after killing the BBEG to see who got to keep the stuff. The DM almost died laughing when the gards found us nearly dead from our own bickering. The escape almost cost us our lives. :D As for the leader having better items... Usually, it's true. But there are a lot of explanations why the underlings could have better gear (wealthy noble trainee, loot, etc). And beside, it's the DM's decision. If you find his magic item track record (don't judge with just one instance), tell him.
fdnickerson 01-28-05, 11:22 PM	Pool loot... thats a new one... people in the party are greedy... theres no way the sorcerer is going to give up anything that will enhance him. 1. You're making fun of me for stating the obvious. Well, if its so obvious, why haven't you done it? 2. If you can't share, then stab him in the back and take it. Either you're a team or you're not. If you're a team you'll have to find some method of apportioning loot. If you're not, then sooner or later you'll degenerate into backstabbing anyway so you might as well get the first shot in.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 01-28-05, 11:42 PM	1. You're making fun of me for stating the obvious. Well, if its so obvious, why haven't you done it? Mouahahahahahaha-wahahahahaha!!! Elegantly said. I'll have to remember it, for it's too good not to recycle. Can I get a franchise? Can I get a written authorisation to use your pearl of wisdom? Please?
Mr. Wilson 01-29-05, 03:15 AM	Come now, let's play nice, there's no reason to call someone an idiot, as following your logic you even got the description of the loot wrong; it should have been a "Nice looking" whip and some leather gloves. Unless, of course, you have the appraise or appropriate craft skill. For the sake of moving along, I often just flat out tell them what an item is as long as it's a minor magic item, no sense in roleplaying out the different acts to figure out what something does. Not when I could spend that time actually advancing the plot instead of piddle-footing around. As to the original poster, if you think this is a pattern, bring it up. A fair DM shouldn't be playing favorites because it draws the ire of the rest of the group.
Draco Strang 01-29-05, 03:33 AM	I think that everyone in the universe should get along, and DMs and PCs should never ever have conflict. Group hug, anyone? Seriously, relax man. So what if your BBEG had crap loot and his wizard had something neat. Either pool your loot, or do something about the sorcerer if the money is that big of an issue to you.
fdnickerson 01-29-05, 08:14 AM	Mouahahahahahaha-wahahahahaha!!! Elegantly said. I'll have to remember it, for it's too good not to recycle. Can I get a franchise? Can I get a written authorisation to use your pearl of wisdom? Please? To Vegetable: In a word. yes. Begin Beating of Dead Horse. Back to the topic at hand. Shaslei, your problem isn't that the DM is being unfair. Its that the DM has the opportunity. If there's a rule 0 for players its this: Never abrogate to the DM any decision the players can make on their own. The DM has enough power already. You say the DM is dividing the loot unfairly. Of course he is. But then again the whole system of loot division is unfair in this game. Its overbalanced toward combat actions. I certainly wouldn't want to play a cleric in it. Find a better way to divide your loot. And, Do it yourself. Don't rely on the Dm to decide for you. In other words, PYL! End Beating of Dead Horse.
Juan Moore 01-29-05, 08:50 AM	it should have been a "Nice looking" whip and some leather gloves. Actually, it's "supple leather gloves". :D And if he really wanted to be mean, he'd have told you that the 10pp you snagged were 10 silver pieces. :P A recommendation... fancy new eq looted from a slain foe should go to the person who needs it most. If no one needs it, sell it and split the cash. And make sure your group rogue or someone with diplomacy bargains for an increase in price.
shaselai 01-29-05, 04:21 PM	Actually, it's "supple leather gloves". :D And if he really wanted to be mean, he'd have told you that the 10pp you snagged were 10 silver pieces. :P A recommendation... fancy new eq looted from a slain foe should go to the person who needs it most. If no one needs it, sell it and split the cash. And make sure your group rogue or someone with diplomacy bargains for an increase in price. I had a DM who didnt tell what the item is until we specifically identified it.. For example, one time we were doing a quest and i was given a pair of glasses that made me "see better"- which can mean many different things and i wasnt told anything else till i spent the money getting it identified... Yeah cleric sucks in loots. I remember one time i got from L1 to L6 being a cleric and the only magical items i got from loot was a potion of cure light wounds and scroll of summon monster 1. Well i did get a magical +1 shield from the rogue as a handydown. That party was more greedy- the fighter and rogue basically grabbed everything before anyone else could get a glimpse of the items.. Back to this campaign, well the sad thing is this incident is the only incident thus far in THIS campaign for dividing treasure. Its sad because it took us about 2 meeting times (~4 hours each) to get through a few rooms and a battle. As for the DM it is known that he makes these choices and people tried to talk to him before but nothing happened. Anyway, after last session where we wasted 3 hours of gametime i am looking to get out of it and find a more serious group of people to play with... anyone around new haven area in CT :)?
Xenocide 01-29-05, 05:01 PM	I'm a DM but when my party divies up treasure it usually goes around with, "Who can make most use of this?" and distributing it that way. Old items and useless ones are sold. Money is divided evenly and sales of equipment goes to a party treasury for magic purposes to assist whoever is falling behind. The archer's bow was weak so party paid for half of it so he could keep up. It also covers major expenses and assists in the upkeep of their keep, hiring people, etc.
shaselai 01-29-05, 05:17 PM	i guess i never had that luck in a campaign with a "nice" party. the closest thing we had on one campaign was 2 players grabbed everything and sold the useless stuff privately then gave 50% back to party treasure and it is used only for party purposes- so no investing in a better weapon for another. I was also in campaigns where PCs rob uncounscious bodies of other PCs then heal them and tell them the stuff they took was the fee for healing.and no they are not evil.
Nom 01-29-05, 05:36 PM	Yeah cleric sucks in loots. I remember one time i got from L1 to L6 being a cleric and the only magical items i got from loot was a potion of cure light wounds and scroll of summon monster 1. Well i did get a magical +1 shield from the rogue as a handydown.This might be true 3rd Ed, but in 3.5, the a cleric can use most items that a rogue can, and probably should be higher on the armour pecking order than a rogue. Clerics can double as front line combatants; rogues generally have neither the AC or the hp to do that.That party was more greedy- the fighter and rogue basically grabbed everything before anyone else could get a glimpse of the items.The problem was not your class, but the lack of it among the other party members. Back to this campaign, well the sad thing is this incident is the only incident thus far in THIS campaign for dividing treasure. Its sad because it took us about 2 meeting times (~4 hours each) to get through a few rooms and a battle. As for the DM it is known that he makes these choices and people tried to talk to him before but nothing happened.As a general rule, the DM should participate in intra-party matters as little as possible. He may intervene to give new players some suggestions, or if one player is obviously being treated unfairly or being unreasonable (it's OK for characters to be like this, as long as all the players are happy with it). However, if the players are willing and able to set the norms for their group, it is not the place for the DM to countermand these or to impose his own norms beyond the needs of the genre.
shaselai 01-29-05, 06:56 PM	My cleric WAS in 3.5... and he was in the frontline with ac much less than the rouge. I think L6 my cleric had chain shirt, lg shield +1, 10gold, 1 cure light wounds potion and a flail.
Cold Napalm 01-29-05, 09:06 PM	Umm okay... 1) stealing is evil. 2) stealing from party members is even MORE evil. 3) taking items without permission is STEALING. I fail to see how they are not evil? Secondly, your party is EVIL. They are basically stealing from each other all the time. You loot, you grab things when the party pretty much equally contributed to finish the job. So everyone should get an equal cut. If your party can't do even that, they are all evil and backstab away and have fun in your evil campaign.
G-man 01-29-05, 10:08 PM	Ideally, the party should give loot to the character it will benefit the most, provided he will use his newfound "do-dad" for everybody's benefit. For example, the masterwork adamantine greatsword recently acquired by my party was given to my character, a barbarian, giving him an edge in combat that the other players simply don't have. However, this so-called "edge" is tempered by the fact that my character has since asumed greater responsibility for the welfare of the rest of the party. He was simply a combatant in previous battles, but now he acknowledes the gift given him by the party and goes out of his way to protect the weaker, more poorly equipped characters. He faces more danger, takes more risks, and helps those that helped him. They (the party) decided to give him the sword, and now he uses it on their behalf. The loot may go to one character, but the benefits are enjoyed by everybody... Rather than complaining that someone elses's character received better loot than yours, take solace in the fact that the your party has effectively "powered up" making it more formidable than it used to be. Think of the adventuring party as a sports team. In sports, athletes get on hot streaks, and when that happens the whole team generally does better. So what if your character got stiffed in the loot department as long as the party as a whole benefits. Beyond that, remember that it's just a game, so have fun. If you're not having fun, find a way to fix the problem or -- worst case scenario -- get a new hobby. Good luck. I remain, G-man
shaselai 01-30-05, 12:48 AM	its good for your scenario with the barbarian... except our pcs who are buffed usually have the rest "meat shields- clerics, wizards etc." in the front. Like our rogue he can cast obscuring mists and usually casts during combat so monsters willhave harder time get to him (he has blindsight) while other pcs suffer penalties... By the way, is it pointless to RP if the rest of the party doesnt ? i try to rp and some players say "you are too "into" the game" or "who cares who your god is...". I think next week might be my last week there..
HomebrewedMonster 01-30-05, 01:55 AM	All I know is that I would hate playing in your party. A party is suppose to be a team. Back to the topic at hand, I don't think the DM was being unfair. It makes sense for a wizard to have a cloak of minor displacement, it protects him from melee attacks and negates rogues from sneak attacking him. A fighter doesn't need it because he can take more hits and can wear armor, sure it still benefits him, but its better to give to arcane caster to keep them alive. I just cannot fathom the whole "finders keepers" looting. I've never played that way and I hope I never do. I can't see a enjoyable gaming experience when your always fighting the party for treasure. I would suggest party treasure, you pool everything together and then give out the items that will help a person the most. Whatever the party doesn't need sell, and then divide the coin.
The_Dark_One 01-30-05, 06:49 AM	Just out of curiousity, the enemies were using the items you took from their corpses, right? It would make little sense to suddenly find an item that could have helped, but the enemy never used. For instance, DM" while you were searching the wizard drow (the player didnt declare he was searching AT ALL) you find a cape of displacement Minor." if the enemy had been using this item, wouldn't you have some idea that he had one? Note: I firmly believe that enemies should actually use magic items in their possession. I shouldn't kill an enemy and find a +3 longsword that he never drew, just because that's what the random treasure table said that he had. That would be stupid...
JSorenson1979 01-30-05, 08:36 AM	In my games NPCs ONLY have items that they would concievably use...if they have a scroll the use it...if the have a potion they drink it....if they have a magic sword they fight with it. the only time i ever use a random treasure table is for large hoards of treasure. Furthermore...adventuring in D&D is a TEAM effort...and i expect my players to act as such. if they get too greedy and wont act for the good of the team i make them pay for it. and whats with this "you find a cloak of minor displacement" BS...shouldnt players actually have to actually identify that? my suggestion to you, the gilted player, would be to leave that group. but before you do...gather all of their books, dice, minis and other paraphenalia and burn it all. just my two coppers Soren
shaselai 01-30-05, 11:03 AM	Well the thing is i killed the wizard (with the cape) too fast for him to use it... and also my dm is freaking lazy and he basically ignores "minor" details like that.. and wouldnt you not notice if the wizard failedhis displacement? I am more ticked about that the player didnt search and he got something while i searched and got crap. well its not the first time he got something handed to him though. Anyway, i would love to burn their stuff except none of the other 4 players owns anything besides 1 player who owns 2 sets of dice. The DM has an ok collection of 3.5 books and i have the standard 3 plus MM3 and couple of completes. This party is almost just about hack and slash with occasional puzzle and almost no RP.
phant0m master 01-30-05, 01:03 PM	You should leave your group, from what iv seen, they don't roleplay and they don't act in alignment or as a team and the DM sux. I recall alot of in party fighting a stealing and backstabbing in one evil campagn i played in because two of the characters were compleat enemys! This was fun because we all knew it was going to happen, but in your case I think its just bad roleplaying.
DrWorm 01-30-05, 01:48 PM	As a DM, unless the Rogue-ish character is searching a room alone, I generally tell the group what the party found. This and the fact that my players are great about giving items to whom ever can use them best makes the whole thing a non-issue. The party booty is used for tranport, scrolls (made and bought), potions, and healing. So far I have had no party member try to buy magic weapons or armor, to big ticket spending has been limited.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 01-30-05, 09:58 PM	I am more ticked about that the player didnt search and he got something while i searched and got crap. . In my group, when someone say I'm looting the dab guys, it's considered everybody loot. Every player know that ennemies usually have interesting stuff. Are you saying they should not have anything because YOU searched? That's greedy too...
shaselai 01-30-05, 11:23 PM	well, normally i share but like i said if i am dont search first i will get nothing.
IceFractal 01-31-05, 01:30 AM	1) stealing is evil. 2) stealing from party members is even MORE evil. 3) taking items without permission is STEALING. I fail to see how they are not evil? Actually, while it certainly doesn't promote party harmony, stealing isn't inherently evil, its just chaotic. Stealing in a way that hurts the victim is evil though. So for instance, stealing a purse of gold from a rich merchant is chaotic, but not particularly evil. Stealing a peasant's few copper though, would be evil. So as to stealing from your party members, it's often evil (stealing a healing potion that they need, stealing their weapon and thus lowering their chances of surviving combat, etc), but not always (stealing some gems from an already rich mage). Of course, this doesn't mean that the rest of your party won't mind, or will continue adventuring with you if they find out.
Cold Napalm 01-31-05, 04:12 AM	Umm no stealing is an evil act period...not choatic. Don't go all robin hood please...I hated that story and he was marginally not evil because he never kept any of it. If you steal and KEEP it, yer evil period...at least in our culture and that of the culture D&D is based off of (dark agges-middle ages europe).
TRCEttin 01-31-05, 05:58 AM	Sell your crap, take the PP and buy something better, I guess? :/ Of course, if your DM is using the "powerful PCs" excuse (you mentioned that in a quote-unquote manner in post one, so this is sadly likely), he might just say "Oh, the merchants don't have what you need. Yeah. Totally." Worth a shot, though.