DM killfrenzy [Archive] - Wizards Community

DM killfrenzy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
HippieKiller
02-11-05, 11:27 AM Ok guys, here's the deal

My dm enjoys killing PC's, today he killed half the party ( 2 people), we are lvl 4 by using 10 shocker lizards and dealing 12d8 damage to the party rogue and wizard. The wizard missed the first save and was death in the first round and the rogue got the first 3 saves but the DM kept bashing and he died, the cleric and fighter barly survived.

This happens every session although this was the worst one yet. Mostly we're just lucky that nobody dies. (usually pc's get atleast at -8 before being cured).

What can we do? this dm enjoys it too much and I think that he won't stop with it. Just get a new dm??
Vapthorne
02-11-05, 11:35 AM Just get a new dm??

Yes.

Wait until next session when he sets up a new TPK and then get a new DM. A DM without player is just a guys with a lot of books.

But, first, I'd try to talk to him. Ask him what the deal is. If he's a friend, then he's not someone you might not just walk out on. Tell him your concerns, and remind him that DMing a D&D game is not meant to be a powertrip or killfest. It meant to be fun for players too.
Black Kitten
02-11-05, 11:39 AM Option 1 - Getting a DM is the easy way out in this one. Effective, quick, painless... but it may be a shame as well.

Option 2 - I myself have found myself blessed with a very constructive party of players and if either of us doesn't like a part, we talk about it. We are genuinly concerned with eachother's fun.

If our DM decides that someone has to die during the session because he feels like it, we'll respect that and throw my character before him to slaughter :evil:

Then again, talking to your DM may help. Maybe telling him that you would like him not to kill you (if need be by fudging a few rolls, what I start to did when I anticipated a TPK), but to make it occasional and only if the plot deserves it.

For example, you could arrange with your DM that he tries to keep character death from happening in most occasions, except for the times that he thinks someone deserves death (either because it's a plot-part, an extremely tough endfight that is very lethal or because someone has been stupid enough to endanger your character). And with that say that he should try to use common sense in this rather than his need to kill your characters.

I think he may well end up trying to find ways of killing your characters within these boundries, if he does, refer to *option 1
Joe Khol
02-11-05, 11:41 AM Do you know the DM is enjoying killing PCs and won't stop or are you just assuming this is the case? Have you actually spoken to the DM about this? Told him that you aren't happy with the level of danger in his games? Have you spoken to the other players? Do the agree with you?

99 times out of 100 this kind of problem is nothing more than a misunderstanding or a taste for a difference style of game which can be easily resolved by a short, friendly chat. It very rarely reaches the point where you have to get rid of the DM and though I'm sure you'll get the usual knee-jerk replies telling you your DM is an idiot and you should drop him but I wouldn't listen to them if I were you.
HippieKiller
02-11-05, 11:45 AM No dude, the pc's talked about this and we all agree.

And the Dm is laughing and having alot of fun, when killing a pc. Phrases like: hahaha"I'm gonna get YOU are more rule then exception.
And at the start of every sessions he throws a dice and there he decides who he try to kill. And he really tries hard.
Mandarbgrim
02-11-05, 11:47 AM That is a CR 8 or 9 encounter. Were you supposed to run away?
HippieKiller
02-11-05, 11:50 AM That is a CR 8 or 9 encounter. Were you supposed to run away?

No we were completely surrounded, earlier in the session we killed a Juvenile green dragon :eek:
Mandarbgrim
02-11-05, 11:53 AM I would go with Black Kitten's advise.
_Twisted_
02-11-05, 11:53 AM When in doubt run.

He might not find it so fun when the whole group runs whenever an encounter looks tough. If you don't fight them he will have designed the encounter for nothing and may change his attitude.

Make sure your PCs are well prepared for escaping. Make fast characters (monks, barbarians) and prepare spells like invisibility, expedious retreat, longstrider, hide from animals, hide from undead etc.

Of course as stated before you could just get a new DM.
HippieKiller
02-11-05, 12:00 PM When in doubt run.

He might not find it so fun when the whole group runs whenever an encounter looks tough. If you don't fight them he will have designed the encounter for nothing and may change his attitude.

Make sure your PCs are well prepared for escaping. Make fast characters (monks, barbarians) and prepare spells like invisibility, expedious retreat, longstrider, hide from animals, hide from undead etc.

Of course as stated before you could just get a new DM.
With all respect but we can not study spells that you mentioned, alot of the time we can't run away and then we need better spells.

And in the shockerlizard case, the wizard was dead the first round......
tompulsar
02-11-05, 12:17 PM Okay here's the easiest way out.
You as a group all agree to fudge your rolls.

Forget your sheilds and armor spells.

Pick fights with things stronger than you.

If he can't see what you roll on a save, lie and say it was lower than it was.

Don't check for traps.

Just be the sloppiest adventurers you can be that way he can get a TPK

"TOTAL Player kill! Woooo! I Got YOU!" he'll say. Then when he's done holding the stitch in his side from the gales of laughter he falls into, just smile at him and say...

"Whellsir I guess your campaign is over" Then look at you other party members and say "Who's DMing next?"

Then have a fun game :D

Easy as A-B-C... plus the effort of actually trying to get killed without your DM catching on can be pretty fun too. ;)

Good Luck!
zerpentor
02-11-05, 12:54 PM a few quick ideas came to mind after reading this thread...

next time to get into one of the usual encounters where you are surrounded and have little chances of surviving... surrender or refuse to fight. If the DM rolls a dice to determine who is destined to die that session, then you must make new characters all the time and assume they are not as meaningful as a character used for many sessions... keep refusing to fight or surrender even if you die all the time.. hopefully the DM will get bored since you aren't struggling anymore and clearly show you don't really care. If by miracle he pits you against something that you can beat easily or with some effort then go for it.

another option is start making identical characters within the group like 5 halfling bards with only music instruments and no armor or weapons. Basicly make it obvious to the DM that you are unfit for combat... he will probably kill the characters, but then just do the same thing again like a dwarf that stays too drunk to fight.

how about refusing to go adventuring and just stay at the inn? when you run out of money just find an alley to sleep in.

bottomline.. deprive him of the satisfaction of "yes! i got you!!! and there was nothing you could do!!"

sabotage everything he tries to do... as players you have more power than he does. A DM spends time preparing a session (usually anyway) and if his efforts are ruined time and again it will **** him off (unless he just opens the MM on a random page everytime to see what the next encounter should be)

an easier way to make your frustrations known is a simple "You stink as DM"
if all else fails, put down your dice and pencils and refuse to play at all untill he changes style or passes the DM torch to someone else.
Bane
02-13-05, 04:54 PM Make an all Chaotic Stupid party. Kill each other at a moments notice. He doesn't get to do a damn thing, and you get to fight against approximately equal challenges. If he figures this out, and makes the guy he wants to kill 5 levels lower than the rest of the party, have the party agree that the weakling is the referee for the brawl. Then start meeting somewhere else, and don't tell him where or when.
Bringslite
02-13-05, 06:46 PM If you decide you need to leave or find a better DM, just do it. It isn't really neccesary to play mind games with him our try to teach him a lesson. Time spent trying to get killed or refusing to fight could be better spent starting a new game that you might actually have some fun playing.

I'm assuming you have already (as a group) expressed your dislike of his style and he will not change. Have you guys actually talked to him about it? If you have and he isn't changing then just tell him you will not play anymore and start having fun!
Deacon Liadon
02-13-05, 07:10 PM Ask your DM if he'd like to GM a classic game of Paranoia. Players get the game they want and the DM gets the game he wants.
Snommelp
02-13-05, 07:39 PM When I read the title of this thread, I prepared myself for a banal post about "the DM's not giving me what I want, and I hate him!" Needless to say, you have proven me wrong. Ten shocker lizards is certainly too much for four level 4 PCs. In this situation, I have but one thing to say. Your DM needs to be shot. In the face. With a hammer.
Delfedd
02-13-05, 07:41 PM I just had a funny picture in my mind when you where talking about the shocker lizards.

DM: You enter the cavern. It is about 12 by 13.5 feet along. The walls glow with a light blue. Suddenly ten shocker lizards teleport into the room! What do you do?
PC: Parley. :P
trapspringer
02-13-05, 07:51 PM You could have outrun the shockerlizards. They are like little rat-things. Just step on teh ones that get in your way.

Also, if you guys can drop a Juvi-dragon, you must be pretty good tactitions. Maybe your DM is looking to run a more dungeoneering type game than you are. Think of it like a game of Warhammer, but with bigger power levels and smaller armies.
Snommelp
02-13-05, 07:58 PM You could have outrun the shockerlizards. They are like little rat-things. Just step on teh ones that get in your way.

Since they were surrounded, any escape attempt would have drawn several AoOs, which would have been 12d8 to one person (Lethal Shock) and 8d8 to another (Lethal Shock again), more than enough to kill the same two characters that died in the straight fight.
trapspringer
02-13-05, 08:09 PM Not true. You can only hit someone with an AoO. Your wizard cant shoot a fireball because the fighter drew his sword in melee.
Snommelp
02-13-05, 08:14 PM Not true. You can only hit someone with an AoO. Your wizard cant shoot a fireball because the fighter drew his sword in melee.
If by "hit something" you mean make a melee attack, you are correct. I'm blaming that on a brain fart. Still, by the rules, to get through the shocker lizards' spaces requires a successful tumble check, which likely only the rogue would make. Everyone else would fail and then get bitten in an AoO, and then get shocked by the lizards.
angryman
02-13-05, 11:04 PM A DM without player is just a guys with a lot of books.

That's one of the best lines I've ever read on these boards...

Ohh, just swap DMs next time the party dies. And DON'T *****slap him unless he's one of those powergamer DM/players.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable
02-13-05, 11:15 PM In this situation, I have but one thing to say. Your DM needs to be shot. In the face. With a hammer.

Your obsession with hammers is unhealthy, Sno.

No dude, the pc's talked about this and we all agree.

And the Dm is laughing and having alot of fun, when killing a pc. Phrases like: hahaha"I'm gonna get YOU are more rule then exception.
And at the start of every sessions he throws a dice and there he decides who he try to kill. And he really tries hard.

Then why are you still with him? From what you're telling us, the game is dull and the Dm powertrip. Player's rule 0: If you don't have fun in a game, talk to your DM about it. Baring rapid amelioration, leave. What were you expecting us to say? Grow a spine.

If he's the only deal in town and simply MUST get your D&D fix (I know I do :...), why don't you DM a game, for changes, hum?
Snommelp
02-14-05, 12:26 AM Your obsession with hammers is unhealthy, Sno.
In my defense, I just stole that quote from somebody else. The rest of what you said I agree with 100%, by the way. Even if you aren't ready to DM, HippieKiller (and you've proven yourself a better DM than your DM already), there's always the option of Play-by-Post. It's not as fun as playing at a table with people you can actually see, but sometimes you don't have other options.
Super_Demolition_Christ
02-14-05, 03:07 AM punch him
Juan Moore
02-14-05, 09:07 AM I'd drop a fire in his lap... and then dump a bucket of water over him.

Crack him upside the head with the DMG... and then show him where it says it's supposed to be fun for players too.

Barring violence, cheat! Cheat so much he quits! lol

Or just yell at him. That works for us.
Moherajikuyx
02-14-05, 10:30 AM Accept the challenge, build more effective parties, study up strategies, have more fun from more challenging encounters?

It works this way for us. We're lvl 7-9 in an epic FR world. It's not supposed that any adventurer reaches Elminster's level. You have to survive in an unfriendly environment: this gaming day we defeated a lvl 13-15 mage and a lvl 12 cleric, without big risks (I'm a melee cleric and I grappled the mage with silence on me!! Too funny!! I was down at 14 hps but the cleric was dead that round)... That should be a really risky encounter by the CR right? Well then we defeated a mummy lord... We still have a pair of lvl 5 spells, the mage has his fireball and lightning bolt still, and we're helaed back up to max, and the bounty we found already is simply unbelievable. And the adventuring day is not over yet!

I don't think I can give you precise suggestions, it all depends on the dm, but from the little things you told us, I'd say that you should be more sneaky.
To be honest 10 shockerz are more or less CR 5 (officially 6.2, but come on!) and I wouldn't whine so much. The wizard should have been "inside the barbarian's backpack" as we say: how could he get hit first?? The rogue should have been able to flee out of shock range after that first attack too.

These errors happen with us as well: I'm not saying we're perfect! But we recognize it's our fault and we try to learn from our errors.

One thing I agree with, if your dm says sentences like those you told us than it's a strange way to build up an atmosphere...
HippieKiller
02-14-05, 12:13 PM Wow, alot to reply too :D
Tnx for all your comments,,

When I read the title of this thread, I prepared myself for a banal post about "the DM's not giving me what I want, and I hate him!" Needless to say, you have proven me wrong. Ten shocker lizards is certainly too much for four level 4 PCs. In this situation, I have but one thing to say. Your DM needs to be shot. In the face. With a hammer. hehe, maybe so, but he�s my friend. so I�ll just talk to him AGAIN.

I just had a funny picture in my mind when you where talking about the shocker lizards.

DM: You enter the cavern. It is about 12 by 13.5 feet along. The walls glow with a light blue. Suddenly ten shocker lizards teleport into the room! What do you do?
PC: Parley. hahaha, I couldn�t stop laughing, I�m trying this the next session on friday :D I�ll tell you what happend ;)

You could have outrun the shockerlizards. They are like little rat-things. Just step on teh ones that get in your way.

Also, if you guys can drop a Juvi-dragon, you must be pretty good tactitions. Maybe your DM is looking to run a more dungeoneering type game than you are. Think of it like a game of Warhammer, but with bigger power levels and smaller armies. No chance of running, the first shock which killed teh wizard was suprise cuz apperently we suck at spotting.

We are pretty min/maxed but not stupid overpowered just a good allround party. with a dwarf using 2 dwarven waraxes, a a cleric going for prestige paladin/fist of raziel, a wizard/incantar to be and me a rogue/barbarian tripper. Wizard is gonna be a illusionist and me a ninja spy with Katana (heavy oriental).

Even if you aren't ready to DM, HippieKiller (and you've proven yourself a better DM than your DM already), there's always the option of Play-by-Post. It's not as fun as playing at a table with people you can actually see, but sometimes you don't have other options. hehe, this is actually the solution, the DM and us had a talk and you kinda offered the solution, the DM saw the problem and I�m dm�ing a test session to help improve the DM. Cuz accept for the frezny and insane encounters he is the best DM I know. I will keep you guys posted ;)

Accept the challenge, build more effective parties, study up strategies, have more fun from more challenging encounters? we are doing that, I introduced my fellowplayers to the optimization forum ^^.

To be honest 10 shockerz are more or less CR 5 (officially 6.2, but come on!) and I wouldn't whine so much. The wizard should have been "inside the barbarian's backpack" as we say: how could he get hit first?? The rogue should have been able to flee out of shock range after that first attack too.
they are a CR 8 or something if I�m not mistaken, as I stated before we were surrounded before the wizard was killed (a 55 hp overkill I may add). And me (the rogue wasn�t about to get his buddies killed by the lizards so we stood and fought. ( I survived alot of rounds cuz of evasion)

Tnx for all the replies, I will keep you posted and all suggestions are still welcome.
Salla
02-14-05, 02:30 PM On the upside, your DM is doing better than one I've played under, who would drop a ridiculously overpowered encounter in your lap and screw everything up so that you'd cakewalk through it. "Your magic missile strikes the Ancient Red Dragon in the eye, slaying it instantly." That crap.

That said ... there are a variety of childish, yet fun and personally satisfying ways to deal with the situation (I, personally, would tear up my sheet about two sentences into the game while remarking "We all know this is going to be the outcome ANYWAY ... I'm just saving time."), the correct way is to simply tell him, "We aren't having fun. The game is supposed to be challenging without being impossible. If you don't start giving us more appropriate challenges, we're not going to play anymore."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HippieKiller 02-11-05, 11:27 AM	Ok guys, here's the deal My dm enjoys killing PC's, today he killed half the party ( 2 people), we are lvl 4 by using 10 shocker lizards and dealing 12d8 damage to the party rogue and wizard. The wizard missed the first save and was death in the first round and the rogue got the first 3 saves but the DM kept bashing and he died, the cleric and fighter barly survived. This happens every session although this was the worst one yet. Mostly we're just lucky that nobody dies. (usually pc's get atleast at -8 before being cured). What can we do? this dm enjoys it too much and I think that he won't stop with it. Just get a new dm??
Vapthorne 02-11-05, 11:35 AM	Just get a new dm?? Yes. Wait until next session when he sets up a new TPK and then get a new DM. A DM without player is just a guys with a lot of books. But, first, I'd try to talk to him. Ask him what the deal is. If he's a friend, then he's not someone you might not just walk out on. Tell him your concerns, and remind him that DMing a D&D game is not meant to be a powertrip or killfest. It meant to be fun for players too.
Black Kitten 02-11-05, 11:39 AM	Option 1 - Getting a DM is the easy way out in this one. Effective, quick, painless... but it may be a shame as well. Option 2 - I myself have found myself blessed with a very constructive party of players and if either of us doesn't like a part, we talk about it. We are genuinly concerned with eachother's fun. If our DM decides that someone has to die during the session because he feels like it, we'll respect that and throw my character before him to slaughter :evil: Then again, talking to your DM may help. Maybe telling him that you would like him not to kill you (if need be by fudging a few rolls, what I start to did when I anticipated a TPK), but to make it occasional and only if the plot deserves it. For example, you could arrange with your DM that he tries to keep character death from happening in most occasions, except for the times that he thinks someone deserves death (either because it's a plot-part, an extremely tough endfight that is very lethal or because someone has been stupid enough to endanger your character). And with that say that he should try to use common sense in this rather than his need to kill your characters. I think he may well end up trying to find ways of killing your characters within these boundries, if he does, refer to *option 1
Joe Khol 02-11-05, 11:41 AM	Do you know the DM is enjoying killing PCs and won't stop or are you just assuming this is the case? Have you actually spoken to the DM about this? Told him that you aren't happy with the level of danger in his games? Have you spoken to the other players? Do the agree with you? 99 times out of 100 this kind of problem is nothing more than a misunderstanding or a taste for a difference style of game which can be easily resolved by a short, friendly chat. It very rarely reaches the point where you have to get rid of the DM and though I'm sure you'll get the usual knee-jerk replies telling you your DM is an idiot and you should drop him but I wouldn't listen to them if I were you.
HippieKiller 02-11-05, 11:45 AM	No dude, the pc's talked about this and we all agree. And the Dm is laughing and having alot of fun, when killing a pc. Phrases like: hahaha"I'm gonna get YOU are more rule then exception. And at the start of every sessions he throws a dice and there he decides who he try to kill. And he really tries hard.
Mandarbgrim 02-11-05, 11:47 AM	That is a CR 8 or 9 encounter. Were you supposed to run away?
HippieKiller 02-11-05, 11:50 AM	That is a CR 8 or 9 encounter. Were you supposed to run away? No we were completely surrounded, earlier in the session we killed a Juvenile green dragon :eek:
Mandarbgrim 02-11-05, 11:53 AM	I would go with Black Kitten's advise.
_Twisted_ 02-11-05, 11:53 AM	When in doubt run. He might not find it so fun when the whole group runs whenever an encounter looks tough. If you don't fight them he will have designed the encounter for nothing and may change his attitude. Make sure your PCs are well prepared for escaping. Make fast characters (monks, barbarians) and prepare spells like invisibility, expedious retreat, longstrider, hide from animals, hide from undead etc. Of course as stated before you could just get a new DM.
HippieKiller 02-11-05, 12:00 PM	When in doubt run. He might not find it so fun when the whole group runs whenever an encounter looks tough. If you don't fight them he will have designed the encounter for nothing and may change his attitude. Make sure your PCs are well prepared for escaping. Make fast characters (monks, barbarians) and prepare spells like invisibility, expedious retreat, longstrider, hide from animals, hide from undead etc. Of course as stated before you could just get a new DM. With all respect but we can not study spells that you mentioned, alot of the time we can't run away and then we need better spells. And in the shockerlizard case, the wizard was dead the first round......
tompulsar 02-11-05, 12:17 PM	Okay here's the easiest way out. You as a group all agree to fudge your rolls. Forget your sheilds and armor spells. Pick fights with things stronger than you. If he can't see what you roll on a save, lie and say it was lower than it was. Don't check for traps. Just be the sloppiest adventurers you can be that way he can get a TPK "TOTAL Player kill! Woooo! I Got YOU!" he'll say. Then when he's done holding the stitch in his side from the gales of laughter he falls into, just smile at him and say... "Whellsir I guess your campaign is over" Then look at you other party members and say "Who's DMing next?" Then have a fun game :D Easy as A-B-C... plus the effort of actually trying to get killed without your DM catching on can be pretty fun too. ;) Good Luck!
zerpentor 02-11-05, 12:54 PM	a few quick ideas came to mind after reading this thread... next time to get into one of the usual encounters where you are surrounded and have little chances of surviving... surrender or refuse to fight. If the DM rolls a dice to determine who is destined to die that session, then you must make new characters all the time and assume they are not as meaningful as a character used for many sessions... keep refusing to fight or surrender even if you die all the time.. hopefully the DM will get bored since you aren't struggling anymore and clearly show you don't really care. If by miracle he pits you against something that you can beat easily or with some effort then go for it. another option is start making identical characters within the group like 5 halfling bards with only music instruments and no armor or weapons. Basicly make it obvious to the DM that you are unfit for combat... he will probably kill the characters, but then just do the same thing again like a dwarf that stays too drunk to fight. how about refusing to go adventuring and just stay at the inn? when you run out of money just find an alley to sleep in. bottomline.. deprive him of the satisfaction of "yes! i got you!!! and there was nothing you could do!!" sabotage everything he tries to do... as players you have more power than he does. A DM spends time preparing a session (usually anyway) and if his efforts are ruined time and again it will **** him off (unless he just opens the MM on a random page everytime to see what the next encounter should be) an easier way to make your frustrations known is a simple "You stink as DM" if all else fails, put down your dice and pencils and refuse to play at all untill he changes style or passes the DM torch to someone else.
Bane 02-13-05, 04:54 PM	Make an all Chaotic Stupid party. Kill each other at a moments notice. He doesn't get to do a damn thing, and you get to fight against approximately equal challenges. If he figures this out, and makes the guy he wants to kill 5 levels lower than the rest of the party, have the party agree that the weakling is the referee for the brawl. Then start meeting somewhere else, and don't tell him where or when.
Bringslite 02-13-05, 06:46 PM	If you decide you need to leave or find a better DM, just do it. It isn't really neccesary to play mind games with him our try to teach him a lesson. Time spent trying to get killed or refusing to fight could be better spent starting a new game that you might actually have some fun playing. I'm assuming you have already (as a group) expressed your dislike of his style and he will not change. Have you guys actually talked to him about it? If you have and he isn't changing then just tell him you will not play anymore and start having fun!
Deacon Liadon 02-13-05, 07:10 PM	Ask your DM if he'd like to GM a classic game of Paranoia. Players get the game they want and the DM gets the game he wants.
Snommelp 02-13-05, 07:39 PM	When I read the title of this thread, I prepared myself for a banal post about "the DM's not giving me what I want, and I hate him!" Needless to say, you have proven me wrong. Ten shocker lizards is certainly too much for four level 4 PCs. In this situation, I have but one thing to say. Your DM needs to be shot. In the face. With a hammer.
Delfedd 02-13-05, 07:41 PM	I just had a funny picture in my mind when you where talking about the shocker lizards. DM: You enter the cavern. It is about 12 by 13.5 feet along. The walls glow with a light blue. Suddenly ten shocker lizards teleport into the room! What do you do? PC: Parley. :P
trapspringer 02-13-05, 07:51 PM	You could have outrun the shockerlizards. They are like little rat-things. Just step on teh ones that get in your way. Also, if you guys can drop a Juvi-dragon, you must be pretty good tactitions. Maybe your DM is looking to run a more dungeoneering type game than you are. Think of it like a game of Warhammer, but with bigger power levels and smaller armies.
Snommelp 02-13-05, 07:58 PM	You could have outrun the shockerlizards. They are like little rat-things. Just step on teh ones that get in your way. Since they were surrounded, any escape attempt would have drawn several AoOs, which would have been 12d8 to one person (Lethal Shock) and 8d8 to another (Lethal Shock again), more than enough to kill the same two characters that died in the straight fight.
trapspringer 02-13-05, 08:09 PM	Not true. You can only hit someone with an AoO. Your wizard cant shoot a fireball because the fighter drew his sword in melee.
Snommelp 02-13-05, 08:14 PM	Not true. You can only hit someone with an AoO. Your wizard cant shoot a fireball because the fighter drew his sword in melee. If by "hit something" you mean make a melee attack, you are correct. I'm blaming that on a brain fart. Still, by the rules, to get through the shocker lizards' spaces requires a successful tumble check, which likely only the rogue would make. Everyone else would fail and then get bitten in an AoO, and then get shocked by the lizards.
angryman 02-13-05, 11:04 PM	A DM without player is just a guys with a lot of books. That's one of the best lines I've ever read on these boards... Ohh, just swap DMs next time the party dies. And DON'T *****slap him unless he's one of those powergamer DM/players.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 02-13-05, 11:15 PM	In this situation, I have but one thing to say. Your DM needs to be shot. In the face. With a hammer. Your obsession with hammers is unhealthy, Sno. No dude, the pc's talked about this and we all agree. And the Dm is laughing and having alot of fun, when killing a pc. Phrases like: hahaha"I'm gonna get YOU are more rule then exception. And at the start of every sessions he throws a dice and there he decides who he try to kill. And he really tries hard. Then why are you still with him? From what you're telling us, the game is dull and the Dm powertrip. Player's rule 0: If you don't have fun in a game, talk to your DM about it. Baring rapid amelioration, leave. What were you expecting us to say? Grow a spine. If he's the only deal in town and simply MUST get your D&D fix (I know I do :...), why don't you DM a game, for changes, hum?
Snommelp 02-14-05, 12:26 AM	Your obsession with hammers is unhealthy, Sno. In my defense, I just stole that quote from somebody else. The rest of what you said I agree with 100%, by the way. Even if you aren't ready to DM, HippieKiller (and you've proven yourself a better DM than your DM already), there's always the option of Play-by-Post. It's not as fun as playing at a table with people you can actually see, but sometimes you don't have other options.
Super_Demolition_Christ 02-14-05, 03:07 AM	punch him
Juan Moore 02-14-05, 09:07 AM	I'd drop a fire in his lap... and then dump a bucket of water over him. Crack him upside the head with the DMG... and then show him where it says it's supposed to be fun for players too. Barring violence, cheat! Cheat so much he quits! lol Or just yell at him. That works for us.
Moherajikuyx 02-14-05, 10:30 AM	Accept the challenge, build more effective parties, study up strategies, have more fun from more challenging encounters? It works this way for us. We're lvl 7-9 in an epic FR world. It's not supposed that any adventurer reaches Elminster's level. You have to survive in an unfriendly environment: this gaming day we defeated a lvl 13-15 mage and a lvl 12 cleric, without big risks (I'm a melee cleric and I grappled the mage with silence on me!! Too funny!! I was down at 14 hps but the cleric was dead that round)... That should be a really risky encounter by the CR right? Well then we defeated a mummy lord... We still have a pair of lvl 5 spells, the mage has his fireball and lightning bolt still, and we're helaed back up to max, and the bounty we found already is simply unbelievable. And the adventuring day is not over yet! I don't think I can give you precise suggestions, it all depends on the dm, but from the little things you told us, I'd say that you should be more sneaky. To be honest 10 shockerz are more or less CR 5 (officially 6.2, but come on!) and I wouldn't whine so much. The wizard should have been "inside the barbarian's backpack" as we say: how could he get hit first?? The rogue should have been able to flee out of shock range after that first attack too. These errors happen with us as well: I'm not saying we're perfect! But we recognize it's our fault and we try to learn from our errors. One thing I agree with, if your dm says sentences like those you told us than it's a strange way to build up an atmosphere...
HippieKiller 02-14-05, 12:13 PM	Wow, alot to reply too :D Tnx for all your comments,, When I read the title of this thread, I prepared myself for a banal post about "the DM's not giving me what I want, and I hate him!" Needless to say, you have proven me wrong. Ten shocker lizards is certainly too much for four level 4 PCs. In this situation, I have but one thing to say. Your DM needs to be shot. In the face. With a hammer. hehe, maybe so, but he�s my friend. so I�ll just talk to him AGAIN. I just had a funny picture in my mind when you where talking about the shocker lizards. DM: You enter the cavern. It is about 12 by 13.5 feet along. The walls glow with a light blue. Suddenly ten shocker lizards teleport into the room! What do you do? PC: Parley. hahaha, I couldn�t stop laughing, I�m trying this the next session on friday :D I�ll tell you what happend ;) You could have outrun the shockerlizards. They are like little rat-things. Just step on teh ones that get in your way. Also, if you guys can drop a Juvi-dragon, you must be pretty good tactitions. Maybe your DM is looking to run a more dungeoneering type game than you are. Think of it like a game of Warhammer, but with bigger power levels and smaller armies. No chance of running, the first shock which killed teh wizard was suprise cuz apperently we suck at spotting. We are pretty min/maxed but not stupid overpowered just a good allround party. with a dwarf using 2 dwarven waraxes, a a cleric going for prestige paladin/fist of raziel, a wizard/incantar to be and me a rogue/barbarian tripper. Wizard is gonna be a illusionist and me a ninja spy with Katana (heavy oriental). Even if you aren't ready to DM, HippieKiller (and you've proven yourself a better DM than your DM already), there's always the option of Play-by-Post. It's not as fun as playing at a table with people you can actually see, but sometimes you don't have other options. hehe, this is actually the solution, the DM and us had a talk and you kinda offered the solution, the DM saw the problem and I�m dm�ing a test session to help improve the DM. Cuz accept for the frezny and insane encounters he is the best DM I know. I will keep you guys posted ;) Accept the challenge, build more effective parties, study up strategies, have more fun from more challenging encounters? we are doing that, I introduced my fellowplayers to the optimization forum ^^. To be honest 10 shockerz are more or less CR 5 (officially 6.2, but come on!) and I wouldn't whine so much. The wizard should have been "inside the barbarian's backpack" as we say: how could he get hit first?? The rogue should have been able to flee out of shock range after that first attack too. they are a CR 8 or something if I�m not mistaken, as I stated before we were surrounded before the wizard was killed (a 55 hp overkill I may add). And me (the rogue wasn�t about to get his buddies killed by the lizards so we stood and fought. ( I survived alot of rounds cuz of evasion) Tnx for all the replies, I will keep you posted and all suggestions are still welcome.
Salla 02-14-05, 02:30 PM	On the upside, your DM is doing better than one I've played under, who would drop a ridiculously overpowered encounter in your lap and screw everything up so that you'd cakewalk through it. "Your magic missile strikes the Ancient Red Dragon in the eye, slaying it instantly." That crap. That said ... there are a variety of childish, yet fun and personally satisfying ways to deal with the situation (I, personally, would tear up my sheet about two sentences into the game while remarking "We all know this is going to be the outcome ANYWAY ... I'm just saving time."), the correct way is to simply tell him, "We aren't having fun. The game is supposed to be challenging without being impossible. If you don't start giving us more appropriate challenges, we're not going to play anymore."