Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DrWorm 03-18-04, 08:21 PM	Okay I have been browsing through some of the threads here by players so as to get some insight. One of the things that I keep seeing is that us 1ed/2ed DMs are trouble. I have been DMing for 20 years and am now (friday) running my first 3.5 game. I have the PHB and MM both 3.0, updated SRD, DMG 3.5, and UA. I have read through them all, well not the MM really, but the others I have. I do not find the games all that vastly different in how one might run a game. On the other hand I am wiling to admit I am not perfect, so I ask from you what problems do you seem to have with 1ed/2ed DMs? I have read through the rules (and played SW d20), what kinds of things do I need to go over again? What elements from the 3.5 SRD should I go over again as compared to my 3.0 PHB?
Aucturos 03-19-04, 01:22 AM	From what I've noticed around here, the 1ed/2ed DM's weren't the fault, but more the systems themselves. They were somewhat more complicated and harder to learn than the current 3.X systems, and especially 2ed, tended towards roleplay than hack and slash. It was just a much higher learning curve, and also gave the DM's of the day many more devious ways to torture the party... but I'm also aware that many still play 2ed and enjoy it much more than 3.X. As for stuff to read up on in 3.5 instead of 3.0 PHB, the major spells the fixed, Harm, Haste, and the other one I can't remember right now. They modified those ones heavily because they allowed you to do insane things in 3.0, which is now very limited in 3.5. Also, in 3.5 they got rid of partial actions I believe (but am not positive), whereis in 3.0 they still exist. Be sure to pick one, because many abilities and some feats rely on them or their lack of them. Also, just as a general rule, read through the SRD and make notes of which variants of the rules, if any, you're going to use. If you're using the critical roll rule, or the death from massive damage rule, etc. Keep it in mind. As for the 3.0 MM, they didn't make too many changes besides the fact that for 3.5 they added something like 50 more monsters and gave you examples of their first few rounds while being attacked. I play 3.0 myself with some houserules, but have read through all the SRD's. Just keep note of the major differences in spells and other rules, and you should be fine. Be firm in your stance, either use the 3.0 rule or the 3.5, don't flip flop if you catch my drift. As for how the games are run, D&D has always been 'run' the same way, and the difference between the editions cannot be seen in how one runs the game, simply by how one plays by the rules.
Xarian 03-19-04, 02:43 AM	:rant: There's only one problem that I've seen with 1e/2e DMs : assuming they know the new rules. This isn't a problem with most people, but quite often people will skim through the new rulebooks and assume that certain things are the same. For instance, in a game I was playing in the DM told me to make a save vs. wands (this is 3.0e). :looloo: It took me a half hour to explain that the save system was different - he didn't believe me. :banghead:
Kitty_Sedai 03-19-04, 04:08 AM	My current DM is using 1st and 2nd edition rules in what was originaly a 3-3.5 campaign and the majority of our group has only played 3-3.5 and though the game play isn't very diffrent there are many more intervals in which the DM checks everything that is 3.5 becuse its so diffrent, majorly feats, spells and character abilities. :twitch: One of the players recently leveled up and became a 4th level monk, and at level four in 3.5, a monk recieves Ki Strike, 20 minutes was spent arguing over how this apperantly used to be a high level monk ability. :looloo: Another time a druid in our group used summon natures ally II to summon a hipogriff, because the dm thought this was too strong a creature for a second level spell he spent his entire tim trying to kill it. :banghead: So gameplay may not be effected too much but argument do occur over such things. Very frustrating. :headexplo
PhaedrusXY 03-19-04, 04:13 AM	I'd suggest looking over the sections of the SRD on Damage Reduction, Spell Resistance, and all the special attacks like Grappling, Tripping, Sundering, etc. Attacks of Opportunity changed from 3.0 to 3.5, also. And they've always been a point of confusion for DMs and players alike. The Shield spell changed signifigantly, and they added the Shield bonus as a new kind of bonus to Armor Class. So shields and the Shield spell grant that now, not armor and cover bonuses, respectively. They changed the durations on alot of spells, and changed the ability score "buffing" spells to add a flat +4 instead of 1d4+1. And no more applying multiple instances of the same metamagic feat to the same spell. So no more triple Empowered Endurance spells.
the_heart 03-19-04, 05:02 AM	as a long term 1e/2e DM, who converted early to 3.0, welcome to the revolution :) hopefully you'll find the new rules to be as much of an improvement as i did. common thing for 1e/2e DM's to not get a handle on is how 3e handles sneak attacks. on paper it can look very overpowered compared to earlier editions backstab. run with it as written and you'll soon find that although it actualy makes sneakattack usable, but it has enough drawbacks it's not as bad as it looks. there are a number of things like that, that will shock you. biggest suggestion i can make is accept that the new rules are very different, and try not to fall back onto 'that's not how it used to work'. if it looks wrong, try it anyway, you'll be surprised at how well it works. and the myth that 3x is less about role-playing-ignore. RP has always been more down to the players than the rules set.
SmiloDan 03-19-04, 09:43 AM	Yeah, the biggest problems I've had with DMs are the ones that don't know the rules and the ones that make up too many house rules. Also, it really is impractical to mix and match 3.0 and 3.5. There are lots of little differences that really do matter. For example, in 3.0, getting up from prone did not provoke an AoO, but it does in 3.5. Also, a whole bunch of the feats changed. Now most of the Improved feats (Sunder, Trip, Disarm, etc.) in 3.5 have a +4 bonus they didn't in 3.0. I would get rid of any house rules you are considering, especially if they have anything to do with combat, spells, or rolling additional dice for stuff. It just slows things down too much, and is usually much more harmful to the PCs than the NPCs.
Nisaulin 03-19-04, 09:45 AM	From a fellow 1st/2nd/3.5ed DM, things which it took a little work to adjust to. 1) Combat actions - There are a fairly wide variety of combat actions. Move equivalent, standard, 5 ft steps, attacks of opportunity, etc. Each has times when they can and cannot be done; wat triggers them, etc. 2) Grappeling, tripping and other "non-lethal" combat - The rules and procedures on doing this get a bit compicated. The 3.5 MM includes the stats for monsters in grappeling (3.0 did not). This is a TREMENDOUS step forward. 3) Spells, skills, and feats - A number of spells are different from what you are used to from 1st and 2nd ed. Since you ran 2nd ed, you are accustomed to the ideas of skills, feats are just a step beyond that. Pay attention to what type of action using a particular feat requires. Too many players try to combine two feats (latest example is Rapid Shot and Multi Shot) which cannot be combined in a single round of actions. This also point back to item #1. I wouldn't recommend allowing your group to convert higher level characters from 1st/2nd ed to 3.5, and then continuing the game. Of course, if that is what you want to do, I can't stop you. But starting characters at 1st level means that the skills/feats/spells and other stuff you need to be familiar with on the first game is reduced significantly. As characters advance in level, and gain new abilities, you have time to familiarize yourself with them. You will generally find that combat is a little more structured, organized, and logical than what existed in 1st/2nd ed. This means that it takes longer to complete. But by the same token, the idea of attacks, +'s on weapons, etc all ADDING is much easier to use than the old attack vs AC, or THACO systems. Only having to deal with 3 types of saves is also much better. Have fun.
aka Jimmy 03-19-04, 04:42 PM	If you are converting old characters, the best way to do it is just forget about the "numbers" and convert the concepts. EG: rather than trying to convert the stats, HP level, and such of an old character, just make a new 3.5 ed character that has the same personality, and characteristics etc... This new character will probably be of a different level and have different stats if you do this carefully. This is especially true of characters that used the old multiclass "system" *shudder*.
BlackFiend 03-19-04, 04:55 PM	I've been playing for a 2 decades myself, so I can sympathize. 1. I can't strongly suggest enough to NOT mix 3.5 with any other edition. Seriously. Don't do it...don't even think about it. If you have 3.0 books, get the 3.5 books and sell the 3.0 on ebay to some one else out there in the great beyond. Or burn them. Why keep it? 2. As was said before by another, if it doesn't seem right to you...go with the letter of the law vs spirit of the law. Stay fundamental and literal to the core rules. 3. I also urge you to take UA and put it aside for a while. Get comfortable with 3.5 edition, then evaluate and introduce SOME aspects of UA. DON'T MIX EDITIONS. 4. Learn the game AS IS, without prejudice. Play for at least 10 sessions before evaluating and making changes. Not even a single small house rule, man. Just let it fly as is. 5. Look up EVERYTHING. Don't worry about wasting game time while you and the party learn together. Let the players know upfront that you intend to do this...they should have no problem, imo. Even simple stuff like Mage Armor, Invisibility, Magic Missile. Fly. They are ALL VERY different than other editions. Look up EVERYTHING. 6. Study Attacks of Opportunity. Print it out. Memorize sections. Take out some minis and mess around with it. 7. Use minis and a battle grid. Yeah, I grew up old skool and we didn't require minis, but now...it really, really helps. If you can get the new WOTC minis by the box, or on Ebay, go for it. Its worth it, imo.
DrWorm 03-19-04, 04:59 PM	Thanks a lot folks I really apprecaite your advice: First of all I am not doing a mix of 3.0 and 3.5...I am going 3.5 all the way. And I am not converting from 2nd ed either, as I quit that game about a year after it came out because it sucked so bad. I have been playing D20 SW for over a year now so I have a good idea of skills and feats, though some are different in D&D. I will look over the areas you suggested again. In regards to house rules, well I am using some of the alternate rules from Unearthed Arcana, but have not made any "house" rules per se'.
ehrin 03-19-04, 05:05 PM	From my experience: really learn the melee "round" and the actions (free, standard, etc.) that can and cannot occur, which ones combine, etc. That will help you watch for illegal combos (ie, I use ten feats at once, and then move 30 feet to get away). Remember three little words: Fortitude, Will, and Reflex. forget wands, death magic, poison, etc.. Fortitude, Will, and Reflex. Get used to armor classes being above 20, and remember that your monsters almost ALWAYS have pluses to your die rolls to hit. My first few weeks, monsters only hit on natural 20's, until I figured out they had +6 to melee bonuses, etc.. Learn about attacks of opportunity, 5 step movement, and withdrawing. If you don't learn this, your NPC's will die quickly.
BlackFiend 03-19-04, 05:17 PM	Originally posted by DrWorm Thanks a lot folks I really apprecaite your advice: First of all I am not doing a mix of 3.0 and 3.5...I am going 3.5 all the way. And I am not converting from 2nd ed either, as I quit that game about a year after it came out because it sucked so bad. I have been playing D20 SW for over a year now so I have a good idea of skills and feats, though some are different in D&D. I will look over the areas you suggested again. In regards to house rules, well I am using some of the alternate rules from Unearthed Arcana, but have not made any "house" rules per se'. You are well on your way to success!