Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MikEye 06-08-07, 03:23 PM	Hello all. I have a problem. In my party, we have fairly inexperienced players (myself included, I've probably been playing seriously for maybe 6 or so months) One of which is a level 4 hexblade/1 rangerm and a level 6 cleric of boccob. The Hexblade kills three wizards, and "learns every single spell in their spell books and can cast them all once a day." This is CLEARLY terrible ruling, I later explained to the DM that at this level he doesn't even have a caster level yet. They are all level 0-2 spells, I believe. The Cleric of Boccob, the most TERRIBLE Metagamer I have ever seen, (I.E. Playing an NPC character because his character is not in the party right now, finds a ring of what is basicaly xray vision, summons a monster and sends it to his own character, who the NPC does not know the location of, or even the character. DM allows it, I later point it out and he does not take this back) finds a scroll of polymorph any object. He makes the spellcraft check, and "learns" this spell because he has the magic domain. The magic domain allows you to use scrolls and other magic objects at half your cleric level as if you are a wizard. (If you are a level 10 cleric, you can learn spells on scrolls as if you are a level 5 wizard, correct me if I'm wrong.) If this is the correct ruling, he rolled a successful Spellcraft check, learning Polymorph any object, a level 8 spell that you must be a level 15 wizard to cast. According to this domain in that case, you must be a level 30 cleric with the Magic domain. This is disgustingly overpowered. He is having fun making his mount a pegasus, and polymorphing all kinds of stuff. Unfortunately for me, his character is crippling a town's economy by smuggling silver out of it... Which is crossing a line with my character, LN Cleric of St. Cuthbert. If we ever came into combat, he can easily just polymorph me into something weak and own me. What do you guys think? The DM aknowledges his errors, but will not fix them.
TwiddleStootch 06-08-07, 03:38 PM	First of all, Hammer Gun the DM (second time I have had to say this today). The part with the Hexblade is, as you said, wrong. Tell the DM this before Hammer Gunning him again. And Metagaming is a bad thing. You should talk to the DM and the player about this. And as for the Polymorph scroll. Re-read the Magic domain. It lets them use Scrolls, Wands and similar items as if they were a Wizard of half their cleric level. This does not, in any way, let the Cleric add the spell to his spell list. He could have used the scroll once, then it would be gone. Actually, now that I look, the Magic Domain doesn't say you count as having the Wizard spells as being on your spell list, which they have to be to use a scroll. So, for a Wand or a Scroll, it appears that the spell has to be a cleric spell. The Magic domain just lets them cast the spells from a Arcane scroll, which are more common.
MikEye 06-08-07, 03:42 PM	Hammer gun? : \
TwiddleStootch 06-08-07, 03:54 PM	Old internet joke. Starts long before I began posting here. It comes from the phrase: "He needs to be shot. In the face. With a hammer." And so, the Hammer Gun was born.
Jaith 06-08-07, 04:02 PM	Hammer gun? : \ Dost thou not no of the mighty hammer gun. It's sole use is for handling thine dumb DMs. And I quote You should shoot your dm, in the head, with a hammer. Kind of the dnd board version of what lela say to fry on the first episode of futurama. Fry: What if I don't wanna be a delivery boy. Lela: Then you'll be fired... Fry: I'm okay with that. Lela: ...out of a cannon... into the sun. Fry: oh...
Nova Fujit 06-08-07, 04:06 PM	run away....run FAR away I am not talking about ingame I am telling you to get the heck out of dodge.
Puca 06-08-07, 04:24 PM	Your DM is playing (running, whatever) an "Anything Goes, Insane, Out-Munchkin Oz, Let's Get Krazy (yes, with a "K" no less, its that Kwazy)" type of game. And, while its not my cup of tea, thats not, necessarily, a bad thing. If the other players and the DM are having a good time, then it is, for them, a good game, and the problem, friend, is yours and yours alone. I would recommend you either embrace the lunacy and try to have a good time, or look for a new group that shares your ideas on what makes a good game.
windscar18 06-08-07, 04:27 PM	Errr....this sounds like the type of things I would DM when I first started :P. In any case, did your DM say something along the lines of "it's too much trouble" to taking back? Cause honestly, it IS a huge pain. You should ask your DM to go over the rules so more.
LCD2YOU 06-08-07, 04:30 PM	Like players NEVER forget that they didn't have the bag of "xyz", or that they only had 15, not 4 HP left. Tell him after the game. If he doesn't change or have a decent reason why (he does not need to actually explain it to you but say, "Yes I understand but that's not the way it works" is ok. If not try the game one more time. Don't like it? Use player rule 0: Vote with feet.
maharai23 06-08-07, 04:32 PM	If you are able to use them as if you are a wizard of half your cleric level, you ask the question, "Would a XXX level wizard be able to use this?" If the answer is yes, you may. Since it doesn't speak of scribing spells into your spellbook, or anything of that nature, that wouldn't be allowed. However, this would let a 10th level cleric with the Magic domain use a fireball scroll... Or even a wish, provided he makes the caster level check (D20 + Wizard level vs DC scroll's caster level +1). Thus, for the 10th level cleric to use a wish scroll, or meteor swarm, he must make a CL check D20+5, against DC18. However, he will also be subject to Arcane spell failure chance when doing so. He also must have the appropriate intelligence modifier (for a 3rd level scroll, Int 13... for a 9th, int 19). This would not allow the cleric to create arcane scrolls, nor to scribe them so that he/she could prepare them. It only allows the scroll to be used, i.e. activated. The normal rules of doing it still must be followed. All the feature does is give you virtual levels for scroll casting. Now, if you have a 10th level cleric with magic domain, who is also a 1st level wizard with Practiced spellcaster (wizard), He would activate scrolls as a 10th level wizard (since the ability stacks with mage levels, and the mage is CL5 already).
Phrennzy 06-08-07, 04:44 PM	1. Take over DMing. 2. Do a better job. 3. Gain incredible satisfaction. 4. ? 5. Profit.
Pfisiar 06-08-07, 05:56 PM	I can understand the DM not wanting to fix the situation at the moment. Fixing the situation at the moment will screw and probably **** off the metagamer. A DM might want to keep players to fill sites, etc. Plus, it might look like the DM is a hypocrite if he suddenly, in game, fixes a bad situation. The proper solution in this situation is for the DM to say "I was wrong. I'll let this instance slide. But the next time you can't do it."
Fatalis_902 06-08-07, 06:27 PM	1. Take over DMing. 2. Do a better job. 3. Gain incredible satisfaction. 4. ? 5. Profit. Step 4 there would be: "Teach everyone what it means to be in a real game."
Ayra 06-08-07, 07:54 PM	1. Take over DMing. 2. Do a better job. 3. Gain incredible satisfaction. 4. ? 5. Profit. You take the words out of my mouth.. err.. fingers? Anyway, the whole situation is vaguely familiar to how I used to DM for my very first time. I didn't even read the players handbook that carefully. A friend of mine downloaded and printed some "Dark Fantasy" rulings which we vaguely used beforehand. So I was sitting there, DMing. The party wanted to save a half-orc from slavery (Who was one of the players) and in order to do so, they had to solve a slight demon problem the town was in. Demons where coming out of a dungeon and they'd hand the half-orc to the party immediately if they agreed to help. So the party went into the dungeon and eventually combat ensued. The rogue takes out a bow and fires and misses. I was rather confused, though. I had no clue where the arrow was supposed to go if it missed. "Stuck in a wall somewhere? Where are the rules for this? Ah damn, I can't search for them now, so I'll make something up!" I naively said. I then started rolling the dice to determine the angle the arrow moved to instead. I had archery lessons before and knew that the arrow could fly to any angle if the arrow-tip was bent. Needless to say the rogue hit and killed the cleric who was standing to his left, while aiming at an enemy standing several feet in front of him. Moral of the story? DM's, especially new ones, make really stupid mistakes. My mistakes may sound too stupid, but that just shows it can happen! Other DM's I talked to told me how they managed to squeeze gargantuan monsters into a small tunnel the medium-sized PC's needed to crouch in to get through it. Bear with the mistakes being made, because eventually the group will grow into something nice and you'll miss the old times when you could just do weird stuff and laugh about it. On a more serious note though if you inform your DM of obvious mistakes and he's not willing to do anything about it, it will eventually ruin the game. As said by Phrennzy you could take over the DMing and start running a serious session that minds the rules, but only if the rest of your party is okay with it. Also inform them that the rules have been made for a reason. Ignoring them wouldn't only throw away the money you spent on acquiring the books, but also the balance in the game. Oh, last but not least: Don't involve yourself in PKing. It's bad in D&D unless all the players agree about it. Even then it won't always end nice, so your best call is to refrain from it.
Board_Rider 06-08-07, 09:36 PM	First of all, Hammer Gun the DM (second time I have had to say this today). The part with the Hexblade is, as you said, wrong. Tell the DM this before Hammer Gunning him again. Ha, I type this and I get heckled. Too funny! Anyway, if I were you I would simply begin to optimize the hell out of that cleric. Play to that level and use the DM rulings to your advantage. Either that or beat feet.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-09-07, 03:09 PM	I'm with BR on this one. Your are, for the most part, right. Well your right in that a hexblade can not cast wizard spells. Only spells that appear on the hexblade list. And the cleric thing has been covered. However that isn't the piont. The DM wants to run his game the way he is running it. Either: A) play in it as is. B) Find a new game, with players who are more like minded. C) DM yourself. Either I wouldn't waste time fighting about it further. Your likely to only accomplish ******* everyone else off.
Pfisiar 06-09-07, 05:27 PM	I'm with BR on this one. Your are, for the most part, right. Well your right in that a hexblade can not cast wizard spells. Only spells that appear on the hexblade list. And the cleric thing has been covered. However that isn't the piont. The DM wants to run his game the way he is running it. Either: A) play in it as is. B) Find a new game, with players who are more like minded. C) DM yourself. Either I wouldn't waste time fighting about it further. Your likely to only accomplish ******* everyone else off. I don't think the situation is so desperate that he needs to consider only those three options. How about talking to the people involved? Polite conversation can actually do wonders. I know that's a hard concept for many of the CHA 5 D&D players out there, but it's true.
Board_Rider 06-09-07, 07:08 PM	I don't think the situation is so desperate that he needs to consider only those three options. How about talking to the people involved? Polite conversation can actually do wonders. I know that's a hard concept for many of the CHA 5 D&D players out there, but it's true. I agree with you but I think that it can be safe to assume, in this particular situation, that the OP has probably tried to talk it out with the players and the DM already. While I cannot speak for On_the_wings_of_TPK, I am sure he assumed the same when writing that post. Those three options are probably the best to work with if polite conversation and rules advisement have been ignored.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-10-07, 12:43 AM	I agree with you but I think that it can be safe to assume, in this particular situation, that the OP has probably tried to talk it out with the players and the DM already. While I cannot speak for On_the_wings_of_TPK, I am sure he assumed the same when writing that post. Those three options are probably the best to work with if polite conversation and rules advisement have been ignored. The Cleric of Boccob, the most TERRIBLE Metagamer I have ever seen, (I.E. Playing an NPC character because his character is not in the party right now, finds a ring of what is basicaly xray vision, summons a monster and sends it to his own character, who the NPC does not know the location of, or even the character. DM allows it, I later point it out and he does not take this back) finds a scroll of polymorph any object. He makes the spellcraft check, and "learns" this spell because he has the magic domain. I wouldn't say assuming, as i take "pointed out" To mean talked to DM about my concerns. And "He does not do take backs" to mean the DM, I aint changing it. But thats my reasoning behind what I said, and the three options i came up with.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 06-11-07, 10:36 AM	What do you guys think? The DM aknowledges his errors, but will not fix them. He won't change anything cos he doesn't believe he did anything wrong. As the saying goes "the first step is admitting you have a problem." By not fixing them the DM is not actually acknowledging that he made any errors.
esteigs 06-21-07, 11:00 PM	start your own campaign. keep it simple. im not saying ditch the other guys, im saying making a world where you make the rules and can limit metagaming, munchkinization, etc. if you want to play, run a dmpc in a premade adventure.