Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Paradisio 10-04-05, 09:33 PM	Well we have a rather large party (around 8 people I would imagine) and ever since the barbarian got into Frenzied Bezerker and been doing enough damage to inflict "death by massive damage" (at level 7, 8 now) the DM has been sending us up against things that are immune to death by massive damage and are extremely powerful for the rest of the party to face. Last battle we fought creatures that were hybrid undead-construct chimeras with dragon heads that had at least 200 HP and when killed a percentile was rolled and they came back to life a second time with that percentage of health. Thats ok, for everyone else... but I'm a wizard. I don't have an unlimited number of spells, and the creatures were strong enough to kill me in one turn (and almost did had it not been for cleric buffs.) All I could do was stall the creatures from attacking the rest of the party using spells like solid fog and evards black tentacles. I can only do decent damage once a day with sudden maximize to these calibur of creatures as well. It seems the more the DM tries to balance out/kill the FB, the more everyone else suffers... any advice?
20goingon1232 10-04-05, 09:57 PM	Well we have a rather large party (around 8 people I would imagine) and ever since the barbarian got into Frenzied Bezerker and been doing enough damage to inflict "death by massive damage" (at level 7, 8 now) the DM has been sending us up against things that are immune to death by massive damage and are extremely powerful for the rest of the party to face. Last battle we fought creatures that were hybrid undead-construct chimeras with dragon heads that had at least 200 HP and when killed a percentile was rolled and they came back to life a second time with that percentage of health. Thats ok, for everyone else... but I'm a wizard. I don't have an unlimited number of spells, and the creatures were strong enough to kill me in one turn (and almost did had it not been for cleric buffs.) All I could do was stall the creatures from attacking the rest of the party using spells like solid fog and evards black tentacles. I can only do decent damage once a day with sudden maximize to these calibur of creatures as well. It seems the more the DM tries to balance out/kill the FB, the more everyone else suffers... any advice? Will... attempt... to... not... make... comment... on... "overcompensating"... DMs... Will save... nat 20. Whew! Has he tried sudden ambush that turns Mr FB into a pin-cushion?
Draco Strang 10-04-05, 10:04 PM	Yea...I saw the title and almost snorted water out my nose. What he needs to do is figure out a way to kill off the Frenzied Berserker. That's such a busted-ass PrC that it's really not fair (and quite dangerous) to the rest of the party.
BladeMage_1 10-04-05, 10:11 PM	sigh... the wizard always gets screwed in these situations... Frenzied Berserker? I have the CW but never looked into that PrC well enough. From what I did see is that they can't stop raging even after they are dead? hmph. Why are the chimera heads regenerating? they aint no trolls! Unless they do regenerate... Make the FB fight the beast alone. then he'll surely die, and you can move on.
Paradisio 10-04-05, 10:41 PM	It wasn't the head that regenerated, its whole body regenerated. It was dead, and came back to life each time (and one came back at 100%) The pincushion idea would kill the party if we were next to him and the FB got attacked with a bunch of arrows. Its particularly bad since the DM makes him attack his party members even if the enemies are within 30 feet, he just attacks the closest thing.
20goingon1232 10-04-05, 10:46 PM	It wasn't the head that regenerated, its whole body regenerated. It was dead, and came back to life each time (and one came back at 100%) The pincushion idea would kill the party if we were next to him and the FB got attacked with a bunch of arrows. Its particularly bad since the DM makes him attack his party members even if the enemies are within 30 feet, he just attacks the closest thing. Take the book where that stupid PrC comes from and slap your DM across the face with it several times. The FB only attacks other players WHEN THERE IS NO ENEMY LEFT ON THE FIELD. Also, the FB is entitled to a Will save to negate that effect. Tell him point blank that if he likes a DM vs player scenario, you are going to play Pun-Pun and have your character usurp his role.
Gene2324 10-04-05, 11:28 PM	20goingon1232 for once I agree with one of your posts! I'd say give him a good thrashing as well. You can also always remind you DM that "Death by Massive Damage" can be removed. I've houseruled it doesn't exist as it unbalances the game a bit. -Gene
Andrew_980 10-05-05, 12:10 AM	Remove the powergamers and munchkins and balance shall be restored.
Eaglos 10-05-05, 03:47 AM	Remove the powergamers and munchkins and balance shall be restored. Cookies for you my friend. Cookies also for the guy who proposed DM slapping. The DM is solely responsible for your situation. "I am giving you X but I have no clue about it so I will put you up against God for balancing the game" :rolleyes:
FreeTheSlaves 10-05-05, 04:52 AM	Yeah, my advice would be for you to ask the dm to start acting like a dm. A dm doesn't let some player's character run roughshod over the campaign & force them into reacting to their agenda. A dm vetoes/removes obstacles to good play as they rear their ugly head, such as this FB. It seems that the dm has had to choose between two evils: allow the FB to rule supreme & you all feel like sidekicks; or challenge the FB & crush the other characters if they get in the way. Reining in out of control characters is one of the hard things a dm has to do, but I predict that if your dm doesn't then your campaign will stutter to a premature demise. All you can do is suggest such an action & support it.
Paradisio 10-05-05, 04:55 AM	The player said even if he died he would just make another FB... Ironically, the DM banned warmages off the bat without ever having one in the campaign.
FreeTheSlaves 10-05-05, 04:59 AM	The player said even if he died he would just make another FB... This is why the dm needs to ban the class & retire the character. The unfun & deliberate act of killing is then unnecessary.
psionichamster 10-05-05, 07:29 AM	not sure if this'll work... next time he goes into his frenzy, hit him w/ a dominate person/monster spell now, unless the frenzy rage allows him to ignore mind-affecting or enchantments (possible, IDK) you have him as your slave point the FB in the direction of the nearest enemy, and slip his leash. wait until he is bleeding from every orifice w/ many arrows sticking out from him and cast "calm emotions" watch as he falls down in a broken, blood-soaked heap. laugh repeat as necessary, until both idiot player and idiot DM get the message...FB is NOT a good party-friendly PrC (if that doesn't work, for whatever reason, tell the FB player and the DM, seperately, why you are becoming frustrated over this...who knows, maybe they'll listen to reason.) namaste' the hamster
Valgaav 10-05-05, 08:18 AM	Tell him point blank that if he likes a DM vs player scenario, you are going to play Pun-Pun and have your character usurp his role. Dear sweet mother of Myrmadon, an effective use for him! Good job. :cookie:
Kalrin 10-05-05, 08:32 AM	Last I checked Death From Massive Damage gave a Fort Save (DC 10 or 15, I forget). In my experience, that's really not that worrysome of a save. Furthermore, there are some ways to bump the damage output of a FB rather quickly. Ray of Enfeeblement comes quickly to mind, as to Power Attack sucessfuly you need to have a decent Str, and if your strength just got dropped, it makes it that much harder to attack. That and any mage with a decent meatshield support and a few enchantments will prove a difficult challange for your party as well. So in otherwords: Your DM hasn't spent enough time looking for other solutions to his problems. FB is not overwhelmingly overbalanced. Just very nearly so.
digoraccoon 10-05-05, 08:45 AM	In my opinion as a DM, I make my rolls in secret and would fudge rolls for important encounters so that Death from Massive Damage wouldn't take out the boss monster in two rounds. :) Maybe a little peon dies from Massive Damage, but boss monsters should last a little longer just to make sure everyone gets a piece of the action. What kind of weapons does the FB use? Maybe the DM should consider some encounters with creaters that have DR so that the FB doesn't take it out as quickly? That way the rest of the party isn't getting killed by an overpowered critter.
SwiftFox 10-05-05, 09:02 AM	Whats the problem? you clearly want the FB dead and the DM is trying to accomplish that through big nasty monsters... so heres what you do : next much-too-powerful encounter you face, have the entire party run away... the FB doesnt have this luxury and has to stay and fight untill his frenzy wears off, so either he will get killed by the monsters without your support, or he kills the monsters but you guys arent present to suffer any fallout from his frenzy... its a win-win situation, just rinse and repeat. Oh, and dont let that guy make another FB once that one gets killed, I hate seeing the "well, bob the barbarian died, so get ready to meet rob the barbarian, his twin-brother who has identical stats, classes and feats and also inherits all of bob's equipment" cliche, thats the worst munchikinising I have personally ever seen.
amethal 10-05-05, 11:22 AM	Get your DM to post on the "What's a DM to do?" forum for ways of dealing with the frenzied berserker. My current favourite is a horde of rust monsters. Let's see how tough the berserker is without any metal. Of course, a spoil sport player can back off and use missile weapons but hopefully by doing so his damage deaing potential will be considerably reduced. And if he dies and comes back as a frenzied berserker, get the rest of the party to retire their current characters and also play frenzied berserkers. The first (and last) fight will be one heck of a combat.
FreeTheSlaves 10-05-05, 11:55 AM	Why does poster after poster think that killing the character is the solution? The player has stated they will just bring in another so this clearly solves nothing. Of course a dm can kill a character, a dm has limitless resources, but does everyone want the game to be about killing the FB? It still does not solve a thing & it is useless advice to be giving Paradisio anyway because Paradisio is a player. I'm going to bluntly state that most of these posts are worthless.
Murrdox 10-05-05, 12:17 PM	While a DM may be reluctant to force a character to stop being a Frenzied Berserker, because then the player has to re-build his entire character... I would think the DM would be much more willing to forbid the player from making another Frenzied Berserker if he died. If he DOES allow the player to make another one, then just threaten to leave the game. And tell your horrible DM that if he's going to allow a broken prestige class ruin the party for all the other players in the campaign, at least he should LEARN how the damn prestige class is supposed to work. It sounds like he's been running it completely wrong.
Gnomish Zombie 10-05-05, 12:56 PM	talk to your DM about this. Listen to him. Then and only then, you might want to suggest him doing things more originaly to get rid of the FB, or at least point out his weaknesses. Your DM needs to understand godly monsters are rarely the solution to anything. Usualy, if you want to bring down a foe, you send in a monster that is good at taking advantages of his weaknesses, not that resists a few of his attacks. Or that highly resists his attacks, making them near useless, without making other people's attacks seem even more useless. Also, ideally, your DM should not aim at killing him, but at making the battles less "I have lots of brute strenght so I win". If he wants to shake him a little (I've no idea if shaking people helps anything, honestly, but it seems to be what he wants to do), he should aim at making him feel what you guys are feeling, or making him feel useless now and then. Now I'm not an expert on the Frenzied Beserker (stopped caring after I found out it was the old classic: I'm a combat-monster who keeps fighting at -infinity and the drawback is imposed on my friends instead of on me!), but I'd like to ask a few questions. This might help you make suggestions to your DM, or maybe if you ask him those questions, he'll have some ideas. Can a FB run away in battle? What if the combat area is slowly getting filled with water (sinking ship, caves being flooded, etc.) or some other nasty stuff which no amount of damage will fix? And of course, what if there is a great supply of amphibious ennemies there? (the problem of doing anything with this idea is, even if the FB coudn't run away (I've no idea if he can, honestly) the drawback is still on you guys. The FB can't do anything but fight anyways. So you're the ones stuck finding a solution, and pulling him out. Still, there might be ways around this) What if the ennemies cannot be reached without walking into a dangerous situation? A flimsy bridge over a deep pit? Traps? What if the FB actually survives, but cannot reach the battle anymore, and the party is in no position to get him out, at least until the end of the fight? It's a cheap thing to do to a player to make him sit out a battle. However, if the threat is detectable (spot checks, or just plain obvious), or the charater had a chance to avoid it, but didn't because he charged head first, it's his own damn problem. What are his will saves? Is he immune to paralysis, suggestion, blindness, stunning, etc? If this guy is willing to keep on with this behavior even if it makes the DM throw monsters that make you guy feel powerless and scared in combat, he deserves some of those feelings too. Have him fighting a team of meatshields, rogues and clerics. Feel the power of hold person. Have you tried febreeze? Febreeze solves everything.
q'afuu 10-05-05, 01:35 PM	Its particularly bad since the DM makes him attack his party members even if the enemies are within 30 feet, he just attacks the closest thing. So presumably several PCs have been attacked by the FB in a frenzy already, which is plenty of reason for them to get their heads together, decide this is not conducive to their health and give the FB the old 'it's just not working out' speech. At the next inn, he can go his own merry way. If the player wants to make another FB after that, the same thing happens. Btw, kodus to your DM for making a PrC already unplayable in a party even more unplayable. :rolleyes:
BeyondFated 10-05-05, 01:54 PM	Will... attempt... to... not... make... comment... on... "overcompensating"... DMs... Will save... nat 20. Whew! Unfortunatly, I have a very poor Will save. Tell yer DM to buy a Porsche and get over it! But seriously, tell the DM that he is doing a poor job of keeping game balance, and he should look into that.
bob_the_great 10-05-05, 02:27 PM	does the party like the fb? are his goals the same as the party goals? is he helping the party meet their goals? has he ever turned on the party? what i'm getting at here is whether or not a group an intelligent adventurers would adventure with him. the first time a frenzied berserker turned on my character one of us would leave a party unless i truly needed him to accomplish my goal. you could even be sneaky/evil, drop a geas on him, the more time consuming/deadly the better. you can also play the paranoid angle. you're sick of these super deadly creatures attacking the party, and you can trace this back to when the character went beserker, entered the party, whatever. maybe he's stealing his power and the source is angry with him, sending these creatures after you. sell the paranoia to the party, no more beserker. if he creates a new one, the first time the party sees him lose it they'll boot him for the same reason. this problem seems like it should be settled ooc though. talk to the dm and the player. if other players agree with you, then your case is strengthened. the beserker is a ridiculous, disruptive class and everything will go back to normal with him gone.
Paradisio 10-05-05, 03:03 PM	1. I'm the only person who roleplays, so I can't be backed up in game about a decision to remove him, since none of them roleplay, none of them care when being hit/attacked for 50+ damage by their own party member. And no one except me seems to care except me out of game for the most part either, probably because im the person in the party who could quite easily die in one hit. 2. The characters in the party are pretty much the last humans left, and if someone leaves the party or retires, he kills them off in 10 seconds after the person makes a new character. And I don't think we want what few humans we have left being extinct. We can't make new human PCs either. 3. Oh and I believe his will save is something like +2 since he multiclassed like 3 times before going into FB in a variety of fighter classes.
Murrdox 10-05-05, 03:16 PM	My heart goes out to you that you are stuck in a gaming group filled with so many munchkins. Take over the DM position yourself, IMO.
Paradisio 10-05-05, 03:26 PM	How do I do that? Assault is illegal in this state. He won't hand over being the DM, and frankly I already DM and don't want to do it two days in a row.
20goingon1232 10-05-05, 03:27 PM	1. I'm the only person who roleplays, so I can't be backed up in game about a decision to remove him, since none of them roleplay, none of them care when being hit/attacked for 50+ damage by their own party member. And no one except me seems to care except me out of game for the most part either, probably because im the person in the party who could quite easily die in one hit. 2. The characters in the party are pretty much the last humans left, and if someone leaves the party or retires, he kills them off in 10 seconds after the person makes a new character. And I don't think we want what few humans we have left being extinct. We can't make new human PCs either. 3. Oh and I believe his will save is something like +2 since he multiclassed like 3 times before going into FB in a variety of fighter classes. Dude, forget about RP-ing in a group like that. They outnumber you. They have the right of way. That is how things go. Best you can do is to Dominate him or something similar. Or leave the game. It is obviously not one for you. Other than that, play Pun-Pun or his equivalent. FB, eh? Play Hulking Hurler for a bit of laughs. You do 50? I do 50 million!
Murrdox 10-05-05, 03:45 PM	How do I do that? Assault is illegal in this state. He won't hand over being the DM, and frankly I already DM and don't want to do it two days in a row. Well, if you're already DMing another session... then there's not much to say other than get a different gaming group that you can have fun playing in. Personally, I'd invent a home-brew prestige class even more broken than the FB, get it past your DM, and then simply repeatedly kill all the other characters in your party. If the DM kills you or something, then create another character, and at character creation buy a portable hole and a bag of holding. As soon as you meet the other characters, run over to them and stuff the portable hole in the bag of holding and get the entire group sucked into Limbo. If the group somehow manages to get out of THAT situation, then play a scottsman with a herd of sheep. Everytime you get into combat, start doing unnatural things to one of your sheep. Tell everyone else that it's a defense mechanism because you're suffering from post traumatic stress syndrome. When that character somehow dies, then go ahead and create your OWN frenzied berserker to join the group. As soon as you greet the other party members and start the quest... get a big bucket of water and just dunk your own head in, and hold it there until you drown.
Lincoln Hills 10-05-05, 03:58 PM	Pfh. Throw a geas on the berserk. Require him to "protect me from the next enemy that attacks me." Ideally, throw this on him near the end of each combat. Then, when he fails his Will save and attempts to attack you, he becomes 'the next enemy that attacks you.' Depending on DM interpretation, he must either a) snap out of his berserk, b) attack himself, or c) suffer the penalties of being unable to complete a geas. Any way you slice it, a good time will be had by all - except him.
Judging Eagle 10-05-05, 04:24 PM	Or cast Dominate person.... He'll probably fail, and now you can control him, even when frenzied. Better still. Majic Jar yourself into his body and fling him into the mouth of an enemy with no weapon, so that he can't cut his way out; he'll just die from the acid/bludgeouning damage and he needs to deal slashing damage with a light/natural weapon to escape the guts of a monster. Or just cast hold person and disinigrate on him; once he's dead, he's never coming back.
Paradisio 10-05-05, 04:51 PM	Sigh, so the advice is get the player to make a new character, screw him over, or quit the campaign? I wish finding a new group wasn't so hard...
20goingon1232 10-05-05, 05:09 PM	Sigh, so the advice is get the player to make a new character, screw him over, or quit the campaign? I wish finding a new group wasn't so hard... There is always "beat the DM"... With a book! With a book!! I meant with a book!
Lincoln Hills 10-05-05, 05:26 PM	Oh, well, if you're determined not to go around treating fellow PCs as hostiles, our hands are tied. ;) That's a joke son! I keep throwin' em and you keep missin' em! Okay, try this. Go to the DM and ask him politely for more non-combat challenges. There are tons of areas (riddles, traps, spell-sealed areas, diplomatic situations) in which a frenzied berserker is absolutely useless... or even a detriment. Point out that instead of 'challenging' the berserker, all the DM is doing is increasing the danger level for the guys who AREN'T his problem.
bob_the_great 10-05-05, 05:34 PM	you need to adapt to the situation. you are in a munchkin, roll-playing group. stop fighting it a fun way to fight it though would be to try to talk your way out of every encounter before it begins. your uber damage buddies can't do anything if you prevent every battle. oh, and wate everyone's time talking to npcs, exploring rumors, and casting divinations
FreeTheSlaves 10-05-05, 10:08 PM	Sigh, so the advice is get the player to make a new character, screw him over, or quit the campaign? I wish finding a new group wasn't so hard... Well you do already dm a game so you're not totally missing out. This is one of the reasons why I dm, it gives me an opportunity to run the sort of game that I'd like to play in. Of course I'm not a player in this campaign but it is fun enough for me. The real problem with d&d is the quality of campaigns vary wildly due to dm & player make-up. Some games suck & some rock, & there is not too many options if it sucks other than to redo the group make-up by chopping & changing players. The best game includes players with similar expectations & the dm being both emotionally mature & mechanically experienced. If you don't have something like that then chances are your gaming experience is not as good as d&d can be. So yeah, you have my sympathies but the only solution looks like the hardest one of trying to find an alternate group. Maybe you could organize to game on another night & invite the pick of the litter (dm & FB do not seem to fit this description).
Gnomish Zombie 10-05-05, 11:00 PM	the problem is there is little you can do, as you are not the DM, and can't rule over what the other players do, or truly compensate for it. Well, except going into munchkinistic behaviors (to increase your power). However, let's recap what the problem is: (please tell me if I'm wrong) There is a FB who beats the hell out of everything. He thus raises the power of the game. The DM just throws big things at all of you to keep the challenge up with raw brute force. This causes you to fear for your character, and often feel useless, as your character is always out of the league for the game. You perceive the FB as a threat to your character, because he can kill you in one hit (please mention if he can kill you, or only down you. It changes a lot) You'd rather not screw up your buddy's character, quit the game, change char, The other players don't mind too much. They can survive a hit, and can also survive the hits from the ennemies better than you can. As you seem to think the other options are too radical, I'll ask the question I should have asked before. Did you talk about it with your DM? If not, you should probably do that first. Talk to him privately or with one or two other guys when you get the chance. Don't send accusations flying, either at him or the FB characters. Try not to whine (I know I'd be hard for me not to). Rather mention how the situation makes you feel. Listen to how he perceives the situation. From what you said he seems to be affected by this too. Understanding this might be the key to reach an understanding. Oh yeah, of course this doesn't mean they'll do anything about it. PS: You might also want to consider talking about it with the guy who plays the FB. If he understands you are getting bored/scared, he might feel a little sympathy and play something else next time. PS: sorry for the long post... EDIT: Edited out some probably not-so-vital advice.
Ozymandias V. 10-06-05, 01:19 PM	To protect yourself, get him a magic item to boost his Will save into the stratosphere. This will allow him to control his frenzy AND protect you from "Mind-controlled Tank Syndrome". As for the DM, tell him to try using monsters that can FLY. Or are INCORPOREAL. Or are just generally good against melee tanks. Or any of the ways non-retarded ways he could deal with it instead of the thoughtless and unfair method he's currently using. The FB's main advantages are in massive melee combat. Hasn't your DM ever heard of "ranged attacks"?
Bruunwald 10-06-05, 01:40 PM	The OP's post illustrates the problem I had with a certain PC in our game, who through the player's munchkinning and my own oversight, became too overpowered to challenge without killing the other PCs outright. The player in question balked, whined, cried, moaned and complained at any attempt to restore balance to the game, even when those attempts were sanctioned and decided by Wizards (the half-ogre went from the very incorrect LA +1 to the still-incorrect LA +2). That, and his incessant cheating, prompted me to let him go from the game. It's to hard to have fun with someone playing a half-ogre barbarian who thinks that he can obtain yet more power if he can just convince you that the party wizard is better at fighting than he is.
Paradisio 10-06-05, 02:47 PM	If you think half ogres are broken at +2 check out Catfolk ;p
Phrennzy 10-06-05, 04:04 PM	With your wizardly feats, create two items. Wings of Flying, and a ring of Invisibility. When the combat starts getting real rough, turn on the ring and move away. Next round, activate the wings and fly. Spend the rest of the combat buffing or aiding the other PCs. When the FB turns against the other PCs, stay out of melee range, and hidden. A logical solution that lets you keep the PC, in the game, without dying. Be sure that you are buffing yourself with good stuff (stoneskin and such) and staying in the rear of combat. If you can hit the Greater Invisibility, and then use summoned monsters, even better. Stay out of combat against these giant things. And if the FB starts attacking the party, hit him back. Hit him until he dies.
Paradisio 10-06-05, 04:42 PM	Erm... Should I have taken craft wonderous item? :rolleyes:
Gene2324 10-06-05, 07:53 PM	Nine out of ten wizards everywhere say: "YES!"
ytookay 10-06-05, 09:22 PM	I don't understand how the berserker can be doing over 50 damage regularly. Granted, I'm not too terribly familiar with the class, but I don't think he should have a strength score over something in the thirties, even when frenzying/raging, two stat-ups and a few magic items factored in. That puts his modifier at +12, or +18 if he's using a weapon two-handed. Even if he's using a +5 greataxe, he shouldn't be capable of doing more than 30 damage if he rolls max damage. If he's critting constantly, you might need to be watching his dice rolls more carefully. Of course, I already admitted that I don't understand the class any well, so entering frenzy could do something ridiculously different than rage does.
Ogmug 10-06-05, 10:41 PM	Minimum requirements to be a FB: Barbarian 6 2 levels of FB = 8th level assuming str of 18 base, +2 racial. +2 stat increases = 22 Frenzy will go to +6 (28). This gives them a +9 str bonus. Add in belt of ogre str +2=10 str bonus 2 handed Great sword+5 will do 2d6 +5 + PA (16)+10 for str.=33 to 43 damage. Crit for 2x (take improved crit and power crit to increase range) God forbid it be a barb 6 / fb 5 2d6+5 + (pa)33 (+3 for every -1!) +10 = 48 to 58. Without crit.
Boshi 10-06-05, 10:54 PM	simple solution: guerilla tactics. There's nothing a FB can do that can't be beat by a few dozen sneaky hit-n-run trap-happy kobolds.
Kalrin 10-07-05, 01:26 AM	Minimum requirements to be a FB: Barbarian 6 2 levels of FB = 8th level assuming str of 18 base, +2 racial. +2 stat increases = 22 Frenzy will go to +6 (28). This gives them a +9 str bonus. Add in belt of ogre str +2=10 str bonus 2 handed Great sword+5 will do 2d6 +5 + PA (16)+10 for str.=33 to 43 damage. Crit for 2x (take improved crit and power crit to increase range) God forbid it be a barb 6 / fb 5 2d6+5 + (pa)33 (+3 for every -1!) +10 = 48 to 58. Without crit. Interestingly enough, you can deal a bit more damage if you Rage as well (rage stacks with Frenzy, as Frenzy is an unnamed Strength Bonus). So you can add another 7 points to the damge range in the first case. In the second case add 9 to the range.
Brashnir 10-07-05, 02:11 AM	is this a new group or the same one from this post? http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=489510
Paradisio 10-07-05, 03:44 AM	Different, but in same ways, worse.
20goingon1232 10-07-05, 04:12 AM	Erm... Should I have taken craft wonderous item? :rolleyes: Nope. I have yet to make a caster that take Craft anything. I hate losing XP. Rather pay the cash.
Callista 10-07-05, 12:50 PM	That depends on whether the Wizard can find someone selling those things, and whether he has the cash. *sigh* But... in a munchkiny campaign like that, I'd say both are probably true.
SureFoot 10-07-05, 03:11 PM	1. I'm the only person who roleplays, so I can't be backed up in game about a decision to remove him, since none of them roleplay, none of them care when being hit/attacked for 50+ damage by their own party member. And no one except me seems to care except me out of game for the most part either, probably because im the person in the party who could quite easily die in one hit. 2. The characters in the party are pretty much the last humans left, and if someone leaves the party or retires, he kills them off in 10 seconds after the person makes a new character. And I don't think we want what few humans we have left being extinct. We can't make new human PCs either. 3. Oh and I believe his will save is something like +2 since he multiclassed like 3 times before going into FB in a variety of fighter classes. Like a previous poster suggested, fight fire with fire. Stop trying to be the voice of reason in a world of insanity--just join the insanity yourself. Make a FB (even though the FB is nto designed as a PC PrC, but as an NPC--says so right in the CW description: GUESS WHAT--your DM missed that part, I'll betcha!!). Or a Hulking Hurler (not a huge guy who barfs all the time). Yoru DM (and fellow players) are all being a dorkus malorkus. Join the fray . .. or quit.
eudas 10-07-05, 05:30 PM	Or a Hulking Hurler (not a huge guy who barfs all the time). Ha! *THAT* sure throws a new perspective on the Hulking Hurler! :) PC: "Oh my GOD what is that thing?" HH: "*Blkargh!*" PC: :eek: :OMG!: :yuck: hahahahahaha! eudas
Judging Eagle 10-07-05, 05:52 PM	Nope. I have yet to make a caster that take Craft anything. I hate losing XP. Rather pay the cash. I guess your DM lets you buy custom items (like... gloves of scorching ray, or fireball; spell-trigger only, but man it really lets you get huge versatility in utility spells and lets you be prepared for combat all the time. Jump Starting Boots (CLW/CSM/CCW/Heal) that trigger when the appropriate word and a swift boot to the injured are also pretty handy). I'd rather take a few... or rather one crafting feat (past scribe scroll) like craft wonderous and then make tons and tons of general purpose spell-trigger items or general purpose gear. Craft ring/staff/rod are a bit iffy, rod is good but if you want it to be metamagiced you need the right meta-feat; craft staff is pretty handy if you want a decent spell-battery at any moment. Pack a quiver of elohnna for 6 staffs ready at any time). If this all fails.... Suggest that the FB take the feat Rightous Rage, they just need to be able to rage as a pre-requisite. Once they rage they can comletely control their rage, and once raged they can change to a controlled frenzy thanks to the Rightous Rage feat. Remember that they have to rage then frenzy. They can't control when they go straight to frenzy, so make sure that they say "I rage, and then go into my frenzy." If you've got craft wonderous, and you know the spell Rage, I'm sure you could craft a headband of Self-controll (ie. like the rightous rage feat).
Traevanon 10-08-05, 02:22 PM	It sounds like this particular Frenzied Berserker might be up to Greater Frenzy which is an even higher +10 Str Bonus. First of all let me tell you, some of these posters are correct. Your DM needs to put his foot down or do some hard planning. Its part of a DMs job to maintain some semblence of balance so that all the players feel involved. This DM is not doing that. Of course if you are the *only* player having a problem with it then the DM might be within his rights to ignore your complaints. Regarding the perpetual FB situation (if his character dies) I have what I consider to be a very good house rule that helps here. A new character must begin with neither the class nor race they had before (exception human).In the case of higher level characters they can simply have none of the prestige classes they had before. Now... on to what *you* can do. First and foremost you can accept a role as secondary damage dealer at least for now. No wizard will keep up with 50 damage per round. However, wizards do make excellent crowd control at mid levels. Since you have an open spellbook you can always shift roles later in the campaign. Charms are good. Fog and tentacles. Walls. Buffs. Also, you may want to use this time (when the FB is taking out most of the creatures) to work through the first three levels of Cleric so you can become a Mystic Theurge. If you do nothing for a while and be patient, eventually the situation will reverse and YOU will be the one calling the shots. After all 9th level spells cant be that far off. Think Imprisonment, often and repeatedly. Also, another suggestion... "I wish that by simple coincidence, I never meet another Frenzied Berserker nor anyone who will ever become a Frenzied Berserker again."
Judging Eagle 10-08-05, 04:36 PM	"I wish that by simple coincidence, I never meet another Frenzied Berserker nor anyone who will ever become a Frenzied Berserker again." How about bear or tiger warriors? I've got a few barbarians in my current campaign who will eventually be turning into either FBs (pfft, no big deal, appropriate DR and fast healing > 30-50 damage/round) or Animal Warriors (Bear, but with 2-3 of them, I'm gonna make the others become large cats or dire wolves or something else, just so I don't have a circus troupe with a trio of mauling bears). Really, you've just got a ****** DM. No DM should let ANYONE outshine everyone else in the party for more than a session or two. Heck, the wizards are the only reason the party hasn't been turned to a bloody mush for elderly troglodytes, the bard has repetedly used his rapier to take down tons of people. Pretty much the whole party gets to shine on a frequent basis, it's hard b/c we run 8 PCs and 3 cohorts, but it works pretty well.
Dargan Griess 10-09-05, 07:38 AM	This may be a little bit painful for your xp but when he comes at you cast wall of force around him and seal it up between the floor and roof then this is where it becomes expensive make it permanent and leave. The only ways for him to get out is with a disintegration effect or a location altering spell. Then continue to do this with every FB you find, the player will soon discover there are better classes. You can claim its a psychological defect your character has developed after nearly being killed to often.