DM PC's [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

DM PC's [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
theonlycow
03-04-05, 11:56 AM Does anyone know any DM's who play PC's in there own game??

My DM does and I think there characters are more than a little unfair. :rolleyes:

just wondering

COW
Rock_Slice
03-04-05, 12:30 PM I have been know to play PCs in the campaigns I run, especially when the party is small or lacks certain abilities, such as healing.

I've played DMPCs several ways, ranging from acting as a PC (high involvement) to an NPC "along for the ride" (low involvement). I agree that DMPCs are generally not a good idea, as it is very easy for the DM to use his/her power to aid their character. In the past, when I realized that I was favoring my DMPC too much, I killed him off so that the players could have more fun.

The guidelines I'm working from currently is to treat the DMPCs as NPC cohorts. They aren't very involved in the decision process, and they only get 1/2 xp, preventing them from stealing the spotlight from the PCs. I'm currently running two DMPCs, a Cleric and a Fighter. The Cleric is for the obvious purpose of being a moving first-aid kit, and is pretty much useless for anything else. The fighter is there for brute strength (STR 18=pack mule) when needed and as a "meat shield" (this will become less useful later on, as the PCs' hps climb faster).

Another advantage to having DMPCs in the party is the possibility of more complex in-party dynamics. But again, I must stress that it is imperative that the DM not pay much attention to the DMPCs, as the purpose of the sessions is to let the players role-play, not to put on a show for them.

Hope this helps.
John Q. Mayhem
03-04-05, 12:39 PM If not for DMPCs, I'd never get a chance to play, and thet'd just be no fun. Right now, the main campaign I'm DMing has only 2 other PCs, my youngest siblings. My brother plays a shamanistic anima/mageknight/mage aiming for the magepriest PrC, and my sister is a fighter/scout/berserker (PrC). My DMPC is an exalten (bard-analog)/mageknight, with an emphasis on enchanting weapons and healing.
Steelborn86
03-04-05, 01:00 PM I use a dmpc in my game, but he stays in the back alot. He is just a stereotypical dwarf cleric who once in a while might get lucky in combat.

If your character has a problem with the dmpc and you are neutral or evil just wait for the opportune moment and kill him, like right after a big fight if he is injured. That way not only do you not have to deal with him anymore but all of his items are then yours.
Board_Rider
03-04-05, 01:56 PM I have found that the use of DMPCs can get a little dicey at times. I don't even bother any more. I will just play NPCs and let the roleplaying be kept up by the players.
On_the_wings_of_TPK
03-04-05, 02:04 PM DMPC Baaaaaaaaadddddddddddddddddddd

NPC Gooooooooddddddddd.

Silly DM, PCs are for players.
Salla
03-04-05, 02:27 PM Technically, NPC and DMPC are essentially synonymous, at least in my case since any important NPC, friendly or not, is built along the same lines as a PC.

I use DMPCs fairly regularly, and nobody complains. I've seen other DMs use DMPCs, and everybody complains. I think my practice of doing so started in a 'round robin DM' game, where everybody had a PC and the players took turns DMing the same characters through varying story arcs (DM1 runs the game through this arc, then when that's complete, DM2 takes over and starts a new story, etc.).

I make sure to do the following:
1. The DMPC fills a niche in the party that the standard PCs do not or cannot. If the party lacks a healer, I can make a cleric or druid or spirit shaman. If they don't have a beatstick, I make a fighter or barbarian. I generally avoid making spellcasters, though, since they take a fair amount of finesse to play, which detracts from my DMming.

Subnote 1a. Do not build your DMPC in a way that you wouldn't permit a PC to build his character, without DAMN good reason. Barring a particular race or template just so you can plop it into the party under your control is bound to ruffle a few feathers. Determine the stats the same way, use the same starting money, etc.

2. The DMPC's level parallel's the PC's average party level. I have been in a game where the DM had a 15th level character watching over our 4th level ones, just so he could throw 'a black dragon and some orcs' at us, and his DMPC would take on the dragon singlehandedly while we squished the orcs. This leads me to ...

3. The PCs are the stars of the show. The DMPC is, essentially, a sidekick. The game revolves around them; they make the decisions, they are the driving force. While the DMPC shouldn't be a cardboard standie, he should never take the spotlight away from the PCs and make them feel like the sidekicks. This also relates to #1, above. The PCs determine who gets what stuff, what the division of money and items are, etc.

4. When possible, avoid having the DMPC bail out the PCs. This isn't often easy while retaining the DMPC's character; you would expect a fellow PC to lend a hand if you were getting ruthlessly beaten up, so you would expect the DMPC to do so also. However, don't bend the rules to do it; for example, once when our group's (it wasn't D&D, so I'm going to grab a rough comparison) wizard got ahead of herself, entered the next room alone and found herself face-to-face with a kobold warrior (she was only 2nd level, so this was actually dangerous). She took a hit and was down to 2 hp. My DMPC's turn was next, but instead of simply rushing and attacking it, he did a bull rush, trying to shove the kobold back so it wasn't threatening the wizard, which would let one of the other PCs come in and make the heroic rescue.

He failed miserably ... and when a 16 STR fighter-type fails to Bull Rush a kobold, it's embarassing. DMPCs fail sometimes, too, just like PCs. Yes, we all get frustrated when our characters fail at tasks (especially ones where they have an obviously huge chance of success, like the one listed above), but don't let the fact that you run the world make you cheat with your character.

If you and your group still have fun and the PCs feel treated fairly by the DMPC, then that's all that matters. But if it looks like your DMPC is impairing anybody's fun, get rid of 'im.
theonlycow
03-04-05, 02:53 PM Thanks a lot that really answered my questions :D:D
Spiff
03-04-05, 03:36 PM I'm DMing a group of 2 players so I have an NPC cleric and a low level sorcerer who hang out with them. I try to use them very sparingly I'll only use them to heal and cast the occasional buff or magic missile.

I had a friend who would DM and have his dudes do everything for us. It got old really fast.
Salla
03-04-05, 04:08 PM I had a friend who would DM and have his dudes do everything for us. It got old really fast.

Been there, done that. In-character said, "Well, since we're just slowing you guys down, we'll go off on our own ... you guys have fun." And we left 'em behind. ;)
Ut-Napishtim
03-04-05, 04:23 PM I have to say I loathe DMPC's. If you have a small party, that's what gestalt characters are for. If you don't like gestalt characters, the players can hire an NPC to fill any needed niches. While in a way every NPC is a DMPC, the fundamental difference is that the DMPC gets as much focus as the PC's, whereas an NPC, no matter how colorful their personality, does not. If your DM's character is the best character in your party, you definitely have a problem.
The Listener
03-04-05, 04:29 PM I am confused as to what the exact difference between an NPC and a DMPC is. I have NPCs that are quite involved with the plot, but I do think that the PCs have enough freedom to deal with/treat the friendly, important NPCs however they want.
Salla
03-04-05, 04:34 PM I am confused as to what the exact difference between an NPC and a DMPC is. I have NPCs that are quite involved with the plot, but I do think that the PCs have enough freedom to deal with/treat the friendly, important NPCs however they want.

As I understand it, the difference is that a DMPC is a more-or-less permanent ally in the party that takes a share, rather than being paid as a hireling. As with anything in D&D, there's a good way and a bad way to do everything, including this. :)
Andrew_980
03-04-05, 07:26 PM i played in a group that rotated dming, so there was always a dmpc, he just took the back seat for a while, and a dm was forbidden from gearing anything for himself
Thorak
03-04-05, 10:08 PM There is no such thing as a DMPC. By definition, since the DM isn't a Player, all characters he runs are NPCs. The only reason to use the term DMPC is if the DM has an unusually high amount of attachment to the NPC. And this brings up a conflict of interest. Letting the DM run a "DMPC" is the same as letting a player for one team referee the game. It's not done, because there's a conflict of interest.

It's also not fair to the players. As the DM, you already have the lion's share of the work and RP. You roleplay everything but the PCs. Any time you then spend RPing with an NPC necessarily detracts from A> the normal setting and such type of RP the DM should be doing, and B> the player's RP time.

I'm not saying you can't have an NPC in the party. But the NPC shouldn't be a major presence, the only reasons to need one there is if a party member hired them, the party needs an NPC to fill a role like healer that the party currently doesn't have, or you need the NPC for a later plot point, such as having him betray the party. If you're taking an NPC along to either roleplay with him, or build his power, then you're being unfair to your players, and what you're doing is tantamount to roleplay masturbation. I can think of a brilliant example springing from that, but I won't print it because these aren't the Mature boards and it would be out of place.
TinManFan
03-04-05, 10:49 PM Hey, I play a DM PC. However, he does no decision making. Occasionally he'll talk about how he'd like things (He's a holy roller) but a VoP keeps me from claiming any loot. I stand around, poke things w/ a spear (best simple weapon) and heal people (the party's main wizard goes into melee combat with an undead dragon engine and gets pimpslapped, go fig) The original intent was to have a rotating DM slot, but since no one else is stepping up, he's there. Also, he's kind of my experiment in VoP-ing. Just wanna se ehow he plays out compared to everyone else. So far, a little underpowered, but haven't gotten my good spells yet. Also, I'll need him for crowd control cause the wiz doesn't like area spells, so I'll have to firestorm the hoarde of Orcs. Shucks.
Vatras
03-05-05, 12:11 AM I run NPCs only, never my own character. If my players think they need more hands, they are free to hire NPCs or get henchmen (with leadership), and I let them run these characters, only intervening when they get abused (as living trap detectors for example). If the NPCs earn a level, I decide what classes they take to prevent experiments by players (Hey, lets see how a level of contemplative works with what he has!), but otherwise the players have free hand.
I have my hands full running the game without making decisions for the group (good ideas are their job) or trying to play a PC by making my right brain think it doesnt know what the left half does.
D_Martin
03-05-05, 02:12 PM I play a DMPC. Salla was right. DMPC should not overshadow the players. They also shouldn't be the ones making the decisions for the group or hoarding magic items. A good rule of thumb is to keep the PC's ahead in level to the DMPC. But if your group is more than 4 people(DM, 2-3 players), there shouldn't be a need for a DMPC. There are exceptions of course, like if none of the PC's are ftr-types and are getting beaten around or there is no cleric or wizard. Then perhaps I can see a DMPC, but if the players played smart, one is usually not necessary(the PC's didn't plan what PC's they were going to play very well).
theonlycow
03-05-05, 02:47 PM I usually play low level sorcerers and I think this may be why I am such a sceptic of DMPC.
One of the many problems I've found is that its way to easy to be a power gamer while playing a DMPC. How can one stop himself if he allready knows whats going to happen??? :confused:
Salla
03-05-05, 06:15 PM I usually play low level sorcerers and I think this may be why I am such a sceptic of DMPC.
One of the many problems I've found is that its way to easy to be a power gamer while playing a DMPC. How can one stop himself if he allready knows whats going to happen??? :confused:

Oddly, I never have any problems with it. You just have to get, and stay, in-character (and again, you go with the PC flow).
Vaalingrade Ashland
03-05-05, 06:45 PM If anyone had a DM that doesn't know how to use DMPCs (A useful DMing tool when properly deployed.), have them click the Boards Links link in my sig and go to the Rules for Running a DMPC.

But there are also a lot of players who have trouble living in thier 'PCs vs, the DM' bubble when a DMPC is around. To them, I say 'get the hell away from my table'.
Mirikon
03-05-05, 06:59 PM Does anyone know any DM's who play PC's in there own game??

My DM does and I think there characters are more than a little unfair. :rolleyes:

just wondering

COW

The DM in one of my games has a DMPC named Fingers. Fingers is a Rogue. The reason there is even a DMPC is that the group started with only two players, but it has since grown. It is funny watching the DM curse as Fingers is actually effective against targets.
75RD Drum Clip
03-05-05, 09:12 PM DMPCs are very useful when there is only two people to game with. Such is the case for me. When I was much younger, the group was 4-5 people. Now it is nearly impossible to find a group that has free time on the same day as everyone else. Anyways, if the DMPC/NPC is treated exactly the same or worse than the PCs, everything should be okay from a fairness stand point. I tend to be harder on my DMPCs in order to insure that the PC does not feel cheated. The key is to keep the DMPC's role in a adventure, quest, campaign, etc, a supporting role, not the lead.
Demon Lightfoot
03-05-05, 09:20 PM Personally, I feel that if you don't have NPCs that have long-standing relationships & assotiations with the PCs, you're doing something wrong.

IMC, there are NPC followers, hirelings, henchmen (showing my age, there), lovers, spouses and comrades-in-arms, several of whom are just as developed as any PC. They don't make decisions for the group, only rarely offer opinions about anything (which are wrong part of the time, based on IC knowledge) and exist primarily as extra muscle, RP opportunities for the PCs and plot hooks.

The ones closest to the PCs are basically fighters, warriors, experts and commoners, with some low-level aristocrats and adepts at further remove.

The same holds pretty much true for the game where I'm a player, although we have a few more NPC spellcaster chums; in both cases, those NPCs who adventure who aren't hired directly by the party get equal shares of all loot.

What's the big?
feartheinvinceblehamster
03-05-05, 11:22 PM Does anyone know any DM's who play PC's in there own game??

My DM does and I think there characters are more than a little unfair. :rolleyes:

just wondering

COW

oooo!!! oooo!!!! pick me!!!!!

i can't find anyone to play with, so i play dungeons and dragons solitaire.

and it's not unfair, at least not with me. my PCs still die horrible and painful deaths (like being throttled by chokers, like last night)
feartheinvinceblehamster
03-05-05, 11:29 PM Hey, I play a DM PC. However, he does no decision making. Occasionally he'll talk about how he'd like things (He's a holy roller) but a VoP keeps me from claiming any loot. I stand around, poke things w/ a spear (best simple weapon) and heal people (the party's main wizard goes into melee combat with an undead dragon engine and gets pimpslapped, go fig) The original intent was to have a rotating DM slot, but since no one else is stepping up, he's there. Also, he's kind of my experiment in VoP-ing. Just wanna se ehow he plays out compared to everyone else. So far, a little underpowered, but haven't gotten my good spells yet. Also, I'll need him for crowd control cause the wiz doesn't like area spells, so I'll have to firestorm the hoarde of Orcs. Shucks.

that's a good idea, taking VoP so the PCs don't complain that your DMPC is hogging the loot. i gotta try that next time... but it's more fun to be insane.

also, my DMPC hogged the spotlight ONCE it was in a climatic battle with shadows who merged themselves into greater shadow, he was the only one who had a magic weapon so...
Szat
03-06-05, 03:36 AM I LOVE DMPC's, I don't favour them cause what's the point. By and large though, most of my players enjoy my DMPC's. They're helpful and reliable.......or not. Regardless, the key to effective DMPC'ing is to remember that they're just another member of the party. They're just as prone to dying as any others, keep it fair and keep it simple.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
theonlycow 03-04-05, 11:56 AM	Does anyone know any DM's who play PC's in there own game?? My DM does and I think there characters are more than a little unfair. :rolleyes: just wondering COW
Rock_Slice 03-04-05, 12:30 PM	I have been know to play PCs in the campaigns I run, especially when the party is small or lacks certain abilities, such as healing. I've played DMPCs several ways, ranging from acting as a PC (high involvement) to an NPC "along for the ride" (low involvement). I agree that DMPCs are generally not a good idea, as it is very easy for the DM to use his/her power to aid their character. In the past, when I realized that I was favoring my DMPC too much, I killed him off so that the players could have more fun. The guidelines I'm working from currently is to treat the DMPCs as NPC cohorts. They aren't very involved in the decision process, and they only get 1/2 xp, preventing them from stealing the spotlight from the PCs. I'm currently running two DMPCs, a Cleric and a Fighter. The Cleric is for the obvious purpose of being a moving first-aid kit, and is pretty much useless for anything else. The fighter is there for brute strength (STR 18=pack mule) when needed and as a "meat shield" (this will become less useful later on, as the PCs' hps climb faster). Another advantage to having DMPCs in the party is the possibility of more complex in-party dynamics. But again, I must stress that it is imperative that the DM not pay much attention to the DMPCs, as the purpose of the sessions is to let the players role-play, not to put on a show for them. Hope this helps.
John Q. Mayhem 03-04-05, 12:39 PM	If not for DMPCs, I'd never get a chance to play, and thet'd just be no fun. Right now, the main campaign I'm DMing has only 2 other PCs, my youngest siblings. My brother plays a shamanistic anima/mageknight/mage aiming for the magepriest PrC, and my sister is a fighter/scout/berserker (PrC). My DMPC is an exalten (bard-analog)/mageknight, with an emphasis on enchanting weapons and healing.
Steelborn86 03-04-05, 01:00 PM	I use a dmpc in my game, but he stays in the back alot. He is just a stereotypical dwarf cleric who once in a while might get lucky in combat. If your character has a problem with the dmpc and you are neutral or evil just wait for the opportune moment and kill him, like right after a big fight if he is injured. That way not only do you not have to deal with him anymore but all of his items are then yours.
Board_Rider 03-04-05, 01:56 PM	I have found that the use of DMPCs can get a little dicey at times. I don't even bother any more. I will just play NPCs and let the roleplaying be kept up by the players.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 03-04-05, 02:04 PM	DMPC Baaaaaaaaadddddddddddddddddddd NPC Gooooooooddddddddd. Silly DM, PCs are for players.
Salla 03-04-05, 02:27 PM	Technically, NPC and DMPC are essentially synonymous, at least in my case since any important NPC, friendly or not, is built along the same lines as a PC. I use DMPCs fairly regularly, and nobody complains. I've seen other DMs use DMPCs, and everybody complains. I think my practice of doing so started in a 'round robin DM' game, where everybody had a PC and the players took turns DMing the same characters through varying story arcs (DM1 runs the game through this arc, then when that's complete, DM2 takes over and starts a new story, etc.). I make sure to do the following: 1. The DMPC fills a niche in the party that the standard PCs do not or cannot. If the party lacks a healer, I can make a cleric or druid or spirit shaman. If they don't have a beatstick, I make a fighter or barbarian. I generally avoid making spellcasters, though, since they take a fair amount of finesse to play, which detracts from my DMming. Subnote 1a. Do not build your DMPC in a way that you wouldn't permit a PC to build his character, without DAMN good reason. Barring a particular race or template just so you can plop it into the party under your control is bound to ruffle a few feathers. Determine the stats the same way, use the same starting money, etc. 2. The DMPC's level parallel's the PC's average party level. I have been in a game where the DM had a 15th level character watching over our 4th level ones, just so he could throw 'a black dragon and some orcs' at us, and his DMPC would take on the dragon singlehandedly while we squished the orcs. This leads me to ... 3. The PCs are the stars of the show. The DMPC is, essentially, a sidekick. The game revolves around them; they make the decisions, they are the driving force. While the DMPC shouldn't be a cardboard standie, he should never take the spotlight away from the PCs and make them feel like the sidekicks. This also relates to #1, above. The PCs determine who gets what stuff, what the division of money and items are, etc. 4. When possible, avoid having the DMPC bail out the PCs. This isn't often easy while retaining the DMPC's character; you would expect a fellow PC to lend a hand if you were getting ruthlessly beaten up, so you would expect the DMPC to do so also. However, don't bend the rules to do it; for example, once when our group's (it wasn't D&D, so I'm going to grab a rough comparison) wizard got ahead of herself, entered the next room alone and found herself face-to-face with a kobold warrior (she was only 2nd level, so this was actually dangerous). She took a hit and was down to 2 hp. My DMPC's turn was next, but instead of simply rushing and attacking it, he did a bull rush, trying to shove the kobold back so it wasn't threatening the wizard, which would let one of the other PCs come in and make the heroic rescue. He failed miserably ... and when a 16 STR fighter-type fails to Bull Rush a kobold, it's embarassing. DMPCs fail sometimes, too, just like PCs. Yes, we all get frustrated when our characters fail at tasks (especially ones where they have an obviously huge chance of success, like the one listed above), but don't let the fact that you run the world make you cheat with your character. If you and your group still have fun and the PCs feel treated fairly by the DMPC, then that's all that matters. But if it looks like your DMPC is impairing anybody's fun, get rid of 'im.
theonlycow 03-04-05, 02:53 PM	Thanks a lot that really answered my questions :D:D
Spiff 03-04-05, 03:36 PM	I'm DMing a group of 2 players so I have an NPC cleric and a low level sorcerer who hang out with them. I try to use them very sparingly I'll only use them to heal and cast the occasional buff or magic missile. I had a friend who would DM and have his dudes do everything for us. It got old really fast.
Salla 03-04-05, 04:08 PM	I had a friend who would DM and have his dudes do everything for us. It got old really fast. Been there, done that. In-character said, "Well, since we're just slowing you guys down, we'll go off on our own ... you guys have fun." And we left 'em behind. ;)
Ut-Napishtim 03-04-05, 04:23 PM	I have to say I loathe DMPC's. If you have a small party, that's what gestalt characters are for. If you don't like gestalt characters, the players can hire an NPC to fill any needed niches. While in a way every NPC is a DMPC, the fundamental difference is that the DMPC gets as much focus as the PC's, whereas an NPC, no matter how colorful their personality, does not. If your DM's character is the best character in your party, you definitely have a problem.
The Listener 03-04-05, 04:29 PM	I am confused as to what the exact difference between an NPC and a DMPC is. I have NPCs that are quite involved with the plot, but I do think that the PCs have enough freedom to deal with/treat the friendly, important NPCs however they want.
Salla 03-04-05, 04:34 PM	I am confused as to what the exact difference between an NPC and a DMPC is. I have NPCs that are quite involved with the plot, but I do think that the PCs have enough freedom to deal with/treat the friendly, important NPCs however they want. As I understand it, the difference is that a DMPC is a more-or-less permanent ally in the party that takes a share, rather than being paid as a hireling. As with anything in D&D, there's a good way and a bad way to do everything, including this. :)
Andrew_980 03-04-05, 07:26 PM	i played in a group that rotated dming, so there was always a dmpc, he just took the back seat for a while, and a dm was forbidden from gearing anything for himself
Thorak 03-04-05, 10:08 PM	There is no such thing as a DMPC. By definition, since the DM isn't a Player, all characters he runs are NPCs. The only reason to use the term DMPC is if the DM has an unusually high amount of attachment to the NPC. And this brings up a conflict of interest. Letting the DM run a "DMPC" is the same as letting a player for one team referee the game. It's not done, because there's a conflict of interest. It's also not fair to the players. As the DM, you already have the lion's share of the work and RP. You roleplay everything but the PCs. Any time you then spend RPing with an NPC necessarily detracts from A> the normal setting and such type of RP the DM should be doing, and B> the player's RP time. I'm not saying you can't have an NPC in the party. But the NPC shouldn't be a major presence, the only reasons to need one there is if a party member hired them, the party needs an NPC to fill a role like healer that the party currently doesn't have, or you need the NPC for a later plot point, such as having him betray the party. If you're taking an NPC along to either roleplay with him, or build his power, then you're being unfair to your players, and what you're doing is tantamount to roleplay masturbation. I can think of a brilliant example springing from that, but I won't print it because these aren't the Mature boards and it would be out of place.
TinManFan 03-04-05, 10:49 PM	Hey, I play a DM PC. However, he does no decision making. Occasionally he'll talk about how he'd like things (He's a holy roller) but a VoP keeps me from claiming any loot. I stand around, poke things w/ a spear (best simple weapon) and heal people (the party's main wizard goes into melee combat with an undead dragon engine and gets pimpslapped, go fig) The original intent was to have a rotating DM slot, but since no one else is stepping up, he's there. Also, he's kind of my experiment in VoP-ing. Just wanna se ehow he plays out compared to everyone else. So far, a little underpowered, but haven't gotten my good spells yet. Also, I'll need him for crowd control cause the wiz doesn't like area spells, so I'll have to firestorm the hoarde of Orcs. Shucks.
Vatras 03-05-05, 12:11 AM	I run NPCs only, never my own character. If my players think they need more hands, they are free to hire NPCs or get henchmen (with leadership), and I let them run these characters, only intervening when they get abused (as living trap detectors for example). If the NPCs earn a level, I decide what classes they take to prevent experiments by players (Hey, lets see how a level of contemplative works with what he has!), but otherwise the players have free hand. I have my hands full running the game without making decisions for the group (good ideas are their job) or trying to play a PC by making my right brain think it doesnt know what the left half does.
D_Martin 03-05-05, 02:12 PM	I play a DMPC. Salla was right. DMPC should not overshadow the players. They also shouldn't be the ones making the decisions for the group or hoarding magic items. A good rule of thumb is to keep the PC's ahead in level to the DMPC. But if your group is more than 4 people(DM, 2-3 players), there shouldn't be a need for a DMPC. There are exceptions of course, like if none of the PC's are ftr-types and are getting beaten around or there is no cleric or wizard. Then perhaps I can see a DMPC, but if the players played smart, one is usually not necessary(the PC's didn't plan what PC's they were going to play very well).
theonlycow 03-05-05, 02:47 PM	I usually play low level sorcerers and I think this may be why I am such a sceptic of DMPC. One of the many problems I've found is that its way to easy to be a power gamer while playing a DMPC. How can one stop himself if he allready knows whats going to happen??? :confused:
Salla 03-05-05, 06:15 PM	I usually play low level sorcerers and I think this may be why I am such a sceptic of DMPC. One of the many problems I've found is that its way to easy to be a power gamer while playing a DMPC. How can one stop himself if he allready knows whats going to happen??? :confused: Oddly, I never have any problems with it. You just have to get, and stay, in-character (and again, you go with the PC flow).
Vaalingrade Ashland 03-05-05, 06:45 PM	If anyone had a DM that doesn't know how to use DMPCs (A useful DMing tool when properly deployed.), have them click the Boards Links link in my sig and go to the Rules for Running a DMPC. But there are also a lot of players who have trouble living in thier 'PCs vs, the DM' bubble when a DMPC is around. To them, I say 'get the hell away from my table'.
Mirikon 03-05-05, 06:59 PM	Does anyone know any DM's who play PC's in there own game?? My DM does and I think there characters are more than a little unfair. :rolleyes: just wondering COW The DM in one of my games has a DMPC named Fingers. Fingers is a Rogue. The reason there is even a DMPC is that the group started with only two players, but it has since grown. It is funny watching the DM curse as Fingers is actually effective against targets.
75RD Drum Clip 03-05-05, 09:12 PM	DMPCs are very useful when there is only two people to game with. Such is the case for me. When I was much younger, the group was 4-5 people. Now it is nearly impossible to find a group that has free time on the same day as everyone else. Anyways, if the DMPC/NPC is treated exactly the same or worse than the PCs, everything should be okay from a fairness stand point. I tend to be harder on my DMPCs in order to insure that the PC does not feel cheated. The key is to keep the DMPC's role in a adventure, quest, campaign, etc, a supporting role, not the lead.
Demon Lightfoot 03-05-05, 09:20 PM	Personally, I feel that if you don't have NPCs that have long-standing relationships & assotiations with the PCs, you're doing something wrong. IMC, there are NPC followers, hirelings, henchmen (showing my age, there), lovers, spouses and comrades-in-arms, several of whom are just as developed as any PC. They don't make decisions for the group, only rarely offer opinions about anything (which are wrong part of the time, based on IC knowledge) and exist primarily as extra muscle, RP opportunities for the PCs and plot hooks. The ones closest to the PCs are basically fighters, warriors, experts and commoners, with some low-level aristocrats and adepts at further remove. The same holds pretty much true for the game where I'm a player, although we have a few more NPC spellcaster chums; in both cases, those NPCs who adventure who aren't hired directly by the party get equal shares of all loot. What's the big?
feartheinvinceblehamster 03-05-05, 11:22 PM	Does anyone know any DM's who play PC's in there own game?? My DM does and I think there characters are more than a little unfair. :rolleyes: just wondering COW oooo!!! oooo!!!! pick me!!!!! i can't find anyone to play with, so i play dungeons and dragons solitaire. and it's not unfair, at least not with me. my PCs still die horrible and painful deaths (like being throttled by chokers, like last night)
feartheinvinceblehamster 03-05-05, 11:29 PM	Hey, I play a DM PC. However, he does no decision making. Occasionally he'll talk about how he'd like things (He's a holy roller) but a VoP keeps me from claiming any loot. I stand around, poke things w/ a spear (best simple weapon) and heal people (the party's main wizard goes into melee combat with an undead dragon engine and gets pimpslapped, go fig) The original intent was to have a rotating DM slot, but since no one else is stepping up, he's there. Also, he's kind of my experiment in VoP-ing. Just wanna se ehow he plays out compared to everyone else. So far, a little underpowered, but haven't gotten my good spells yet. Also, I'll need him for crowd control cause the wiz doesn't like area spells, so I'll have to firestorm the hoarde of Orcs. Shucks. that's a good idea, taking VoP so the PCs don't complain that your DMPC is hogging the loot. i gotta try that next time... but it's more fun to be insane. also, my DMPC hogged the spotlight ONCE it was in a climatic battle with shadows who merged themselves into greater shadow, he was the only one who had a magic weapon so...
Szat 03-06-05, 03:36 AM	I LOVE DMPC's, I don't favour them cause what's the point. By and large though, most of my players enjoy my DMPC's. They're helpful and reliable.......or not. Regardless, the key to effective DMPC'ing is to remember that they're just another member of the party. They're just as prone to dying as any others, keep it fair and keep it simple.