Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gworraent 05-01-05, 08:50 PM	well i've got a problem here. know i've got this dm he has this npc called yoslo the favored soul, and he treats him like his own character, he's supposed to be the leader of some resistance thing but some how he ends up adventuring w/ our party about 10,000 miles away from the resistance. how can we get him to stop, nobody wants the npc anyways. the dm is a good friend of mine, but you never want to get into an arguement with him cos he's huge and has temper problems( mostly cos he has OCD) anyways, my character is a level 13 evoker/mage of the arcane order. obivously i have a huge repetoire of spells, many of which do d6 damage per level, now my dm, absolutley hates high level characters. he say's that it stops getting fun after 12th level. he says that it's just to easy, i just go in and cast chain lighting( d6 damage per level, then half of that to one additional target per level) and kill eveyone. i just tell him to add more non-combat roleplaying like riddles or w/e, or just make things harder. he just gets all biotchy and wants us to make new characters. he says that no dm in their right mind would dm up to level 20 for their characters. how can i get my dm to not be biased against high-level characters and save our role-playing. i've already told my dm that dnd is about choices, he said : the ones that you make early on( this actually helped me out). obivously...i chose to be an arcane spell caster, in the begininng i was super weak, now i'm super strong. i dont think that dm's should punish people for deciding to specialize in one area, and i need a way for him to stop being biased against uber powerful characters
FreeTheSlaves 05-01-05, 09:05 PM	The only way is for you to show how to DM properly. On the bright side, DMing is really fun, more fun than being a player I reckon.
Gworraent 05-01-05, 09:21 PM	well, we kinda have a new dm, and now our old dm is now a player, our new one is not as biased, although my old dm still keeps whining about highlevel characters, i would dm, but i like my kewl drow characters too much, however i would love to make a sweet dread pirate/duelist/swashbuckler adventure. sadly, our old dm was really good at some things that our new dm cant make up for. does anyone else have ideas??
Flushmaster 05-01-05, 09:24 PM	I'm getting sick of people saying that sorcerors and wizards are overpowered at mid to high levels. They can be capable of dishing out a lot of hurt, but they still have the same weaknesses as before: they suck at melee combat and have low AC and hit points compared to just about anything else of similarlevel. An enemy wizard of equal level or a group of barbarians (or some fast moving, high AC/HP monsters), or a wizard behind such a group of foes can be a major difficulty for an arcane caster. How many level 12 wizards do you know of that can regularly make a DC 20 reflex save against an empowered flame strike from an enemy cleric? Or stop a trio of mounted knights charging with lances from different directions before getting skewered then (if they survive that long) being in melee combat with at least two mounted fighters? Any DM that sees a midlevel or high level wizard as "overpowered" simply has no clue how to have NPC opponents use smart tactics. The same goes for stronger PCs of any class; at some point a swarm of kobolds and the occaisional dragon isn't going to be enough. That badass fighter still has a crappy will save when compared to an equal level wizard casting dominate person or a mind flayer's mind blast attack. The game just gets a lot more complex at higher levels. PCs have more powers and more options available to them, and the D has to be able to use all of the similar powers and options available to high CR monsters and NPCs. It is easier from a player's standpoint, controlling such options available to a single character, but the DM just has a little more thinking to do. And if he's tired of repeated uses of chain lightning he can just toss in a few enemies with electricity resistance or step up the frequency of encounters and occaisionally put the party in some kind of hurry, attacking them at night and giving the wizard less spell preparation time. On the other hand, some DMs are fully capable of the extra effort to successfully run a higher level campaign but just like to "keep things simple" so they don't have to spend an extra hour per week setting things up fr the next session. If this is the case then you should settle for that or find a new group, or possibly offer to DM a higher level campaign yourself. As to the DM running a character as a PC (or effectively so), I have no problem with this as long as the character is properly roleplayed, the DM is capable of differentiating character knowledge from DM knowledge (normally forcing a backseat in plot developement situations, since it's pretty easy for this character to "figure out" anything), and no favoritism is shown towards their own character. Properly doing this requires the DM to actually be fair and capable of keeping their own ego in check; a DM who is a powergamer/munchkin as a player is normally horrible at this. In smaller groups (two or three players plus the DM), the DM running a character can fill a needed niche in the party if nobody else is playing a cleric or strong melee fighter. Doing this also generally requires the DM to be well prepared and not pulling the adventure out of their pants as they go along, so they have a little bit of extra brain power to devote to roleplaying their character. Multitasking ability is a requirement for this. If your DM's character (or "pet NPC" if you prefer that) is poorly suited for the campaign, poorly roleplayed, or has some form of "i'm the DM so my character is special" favoritism then you should speak to him about it, bluntly. Sometimes you just have to say something loud and clear in the open because some folks just aren't good with subtlety. But also think, is this "resistance" in a position to benefit from your party succeeding in their quest? If so then it makes sense for the NPC to be there. But I don't know the situation, so I can't say more.
Flushmaster 05-01-05, 09:27 PM	i would dm, but i like my kewl drow characters too much If you always play good aligned drow or half drow characters, I will lose all respect for you as a roleplayer. You've already lost points for the apparent lack of grammatical skills beyond the fourth grade level and the use of terms such as "kewl." I don't like crackmunchkins.
Draco Strang 05-01-05, 09:39 PM	If you always play good aligned drow or half drow characters, I will lose all respect for you as a roleplayer. You've already lost points for the apparent lack of grammatical skills beyond the fourth grade level and the use of terms such as "kewl." I don't like crackmunchkins. Flush....calm down. I'm not a fan of that giant block of text either, but no need to jump on the kid. To the OP, I'll admit that I kinda rolled my eyes when you said you were too addicted to playing drow characters. You need to branch out and try new stuff. And as for the matter of the first post? You really need to talk to your DM about your concerns. We can't do a damn thing about it on these boards. The course of action and lies with you.
Flushmaster 05-01-05, 10:17 PM	Flush....calm down. Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh. I just got my wisdom teeth removed the other day and they've been hurting something fierce today (I don't think that burger last night was a good idea), so I'm a bit hopped up on prescription painkillers today. I've had a player who read the Drizzt books and ever since his characters are always good aligned drow or (if the current DM allows) a home brewed half drow so he can get around the level adjustment and still have the black skin, pointy ears, and darkvision. The only way to get him to do otherwise is for the DM to threaten him with very bad things (which he'd only believe if I was the DM doing the threatening (we rotated the DM position between three people in that group). Not surprisingly, every character he played, regardless of race, class, or alignment, always seemed to have the same exact personality, which was barely enough to be called a personality. And this player is a big powergaming munchkin, for who normal munchkinness isn't enough but he has to onstantly try to push homemade classes which he makes to be "really awesome" and doesn't have the slightest concept of game balance. He just wants to toss a d20 on the table and instantly kill something regardless of what comes up on the die. I have a new rule in any game I DM that no drow PC may be good, or even neutral with good tendencies. Neutral with evil tendencies is pushing it...
Draco Strang 05-01-05, 11:07 PM	I've had a player who read the Drizzt books and ever since his characters are always good aligned drow or (if the current DM allows) a home brewed half drow so he can get around the level adjustment and still have the black skin, pointy ears, and darkvision. Flush, if you only knew. I've had to beat a few Drizzt clones down with a stick. Especially since I play in Forgotten Realms. I made the mistake of letting one play. Never again. He actually wrote freakin journal entries, just like my man Drizzt. *sigh*
Callista 05-02-05, 12:41 AM	Oh, come on... there's nothing wrong with playing Drow. Not every Drow is a Drizzt wannabe, even if they're Good. A friend of mine plays a Good Drow (granted--a female sorcerer, not ranger), and she's never even read those books. Drow have a huge "kewl factor" that really attracts the younger, newer role-players. (I would, by the way, be part of that group, so yes, I am biased.) Why? Well, for one thing, there's the "evil but beautiful" thing. That's different, and attractive (in more than, ahem, one way) to people, because most evil things are ugly. That's just the way it seems to be in fiction and in D&D; people write "ugly evil" because they want our instinctive reactions to work in their favor and make us hate the antagonists. So Drow go against the grain of ugly evil (as do Dragons, Vampires, and Succubi, by the way--and guess which three races are just about as popular as the Drow for PC races?). No wonder people like to play them! The fact that Drizzt exists, and that he's so popular, is a symptom of a bigger thing, the same thing that makes people want to clone him: Redeemed Evil is an extremely intriguing idea. So is just plain-vanilla Evil and/or or the "outcast" backstory. Often times, new players want a character they can admire (me, for example: All but two of my characters have been Good-aligned, and two were Exalted... I figure I'll learn to play a proper Neutral or Evil eventually though); and what's more admirable than someone who has the strength of will to overcome an evil culture? People, when they play role-playing games, often want to play something that's "larger than life"... which means they will play a redeemed member of a beautiful, but evil race, more than they'll play an ugly and evil race. How many good Orc PCs have you seen? And how many good Drow PCs have you seen? Yeah, copying Drizzt completely is a newbie thing to do. But playing Drow? There are a lot worse things you could do with your PCs. I'd rather have someone in my game play an angsty good drow or an evil, seductive drow, than have them play a PC with ten templates and no personality. ...and that's all I'll say about that... Back to your regularly scheduled advice session.
Thorak 05-02-05, 01:01 AM	Simple solution to DMs who force NPCs that they use as if they were the DM's PC; Tell the DM's PC to take a hike, in-character. When the DM says you can't do that, hit him upside the head with a rolled up newspaper. Or fling a peanut at him, hard. Express your displeasure. Because the moment he forces the NPC on you, he's A> railroading, and B> putting his own fun ahead of yours. Neither's a good DM quality, and he deserves a peanut pinged off his scalp. If you're worried about this tactic because he's huge and has temper problems, find a new DM and friend. Seriously. I could care less what his problems are; if a friend can't trust him to not go nuts and lash out, he ain't a friend.
Draco Strang 05-02-05, 01:35 AM	Oh, come on... there's nothing wrong with playing Drow. Not every Drow is a Drizzt wannabe, even if they're Good. A friend of mine plays a Good Drow (granted--a female sorcerer, not ranger), and she's never even read those books. Drow have a huge "kewl factor" that really attracts the younger, newer role-players. (I would, by the way, be part of that group, so yes, I am biased.) Callista, I've no problem with people playing drow. Evil Drow, that is. Because that's what they are. Drizzt is a one-off. There are very few characters in the FR that are like him. It's why he is who he is. The whole Church of Ellistrae kind of irritates me, but that's best for another post. Evil Drow are fun to play, challenging to play,and fit what drow are. A race of evil subterranean elves that live to destroy, manipulate, and gain power by any means necessary. 99.9999% of all drow characters played should be this kind of drow. If a player came to me and told me he wanted to try a Lawful or Neutral Evil drow that wasn't a dual wielding ranger, I'd give him a shot at it, provided he wasn't a total booger. Hell, I've had a few drow play in campaigns of mine/ones I've been in. Some worked out fantastically, but most bombed major, because the players didn't know how to play evil. In the end, it all comes down to that: Can the player/party cope with evil tendencies and a not-so-good agenda?
weasel fierce 05-02-05, 04:47 AM	If he doesnt have fun playing high levels, and you do, it would seem some sort of compromise is in order. Do one last epic adventure, then start a new campaign.
Gworraent 05-02-05, 04:22 PM	i spell properly when i take my time. however, when i'm ranting about a crappy dm, i dont care to. i only have two characters, i didnt even want to make a second one, but it was necessary. my first drow is cn, and is nothing at all like drizzt. my second character is a pirate, who goes doing non-good things, he's cn/ne. and the whole point of making the second character a drow is because the new campaign ( which i didnt even want to do but decided to anyways) it was to take place in the future and our new characters were supposed to be the children of our main characters. our main characters were already "dead" at the time of the new campaign, although this was kinda dumb, i did it anyways cos otherwise i would have nothing to do for a while, luckily i'm returning to my level 13 wizard
Burgundy Lotus 05-02-05, 06:17 PM	I agree with Callista. There are other ways to play good or neutral drow without going the Drizzt route. There may only be a few handfuls of non evil Drow wandering around but they do exist. The entry in the MM says usually NE, not always. Sure there were only 2 or 3 non eveil ones in the Drizzt series but it never dealt with all the drow there are bound to be others, either surviving in exile or like Zaknefein, doing what had to be done to survive. As to DM high levels. THe whole game shifts as you get higher in levels. By the time you are in the mid teens the options opent to the party are almost limitless. It can be a daunting task for some DMs to still challenge a party that nears 20th level.
Arrowhen 05-02-05, 06:40 PM	i spell properly when i take my time. however, when i'm ranting about a crappy dm, i dont care to. Spelling always counts. If your ideas are important enough to share with others, they're important enough for you to take the time to present them in the best way you can.
Gworraent 05-02-05, 06:46 PM	yeah, i have to work on that. so any other ideas on what specifically i could say/ do to get my dm to take us up to level20? personally i think he's to lazy to make the campaign hard enough, when he makes tries, he just does something really sarcastic like giving us a level 30 wizard to deal and says: you want, tough? here ya go then!
Rosisha 05-02-05, 07:17 PM	Just a few notes on High Level campaigns, He might not like them because its not his campaign style? I'm just going out on a limb here not knowing any of the details, but I like gritty death is an inch away type campaigns a lot. So I like low level PCs. High levels are epic. Those things that can kill them are really cool, but also epic. So I tend to avoid that. But I don't mind the occasional game, just not my cup of tea. Could that be it? Rosisha