Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Borne Of Hate 01-09-06, 01:07 PM	I wanna hear all of the problems you guys have with your DMs. I am starting a campaign soon and I have a bunch of stuff I know what to do and what not to do but I wanna hear some pet peeves from people outside of my circle
drizzt420 01-09-06, 05:25 PM	This past weekend, one our DM's pitted our 3 level 7 rogues against 3 Hook Horrors in a cave tunnel. Our rogues are fairly decent and members of the same guild. The DM managed to K.O. one of our party, outright kill another and have the third "saved" by 3 Duergar?!? There are so many things wrong with this scenario it isn't even funny. 1.) He thought that Hook Horrors were CR 5 when they are 6. 2.) He figured that since we ambushed one he should throw two more at us. 3.) He "saved" our party with friggin Duergar Dwarves, the Drow elves of the Dwarven kin - even having one of them cast Raise Dead on the dead PC. Inconsistencies in portraying NPC's is one thing, but almost wiping out characters that have been in play since level one and whom us as players have a significant attachment to is asinine at best - but not knowing how many enemies to throw at a party and what CR they are actually is just ignorant. On top of this the DM still had the PC that died and had to be raised lose one level even though the whole blundered sceanrio was his brainchild. PC's should not have to suffer from DM mistakes.
Morbid 01-09-06, 11:08 PM	My biggest problem is that he smokes while we're playing and it almost seems like I'm inhaling the smoke right from the cigarette. It takes him a while to get the adventures together cause he writes them himself and his brain isn't quite "normal". He gives us really hard puzzles if we want something he doesn't want us to have so easily, to the point we almost can't figure them out. I love DMing... :D
Karui_Kage 01-09-06, 11:35 PM	You know there's a huge thread about this very subject stickied in this forum, right? :P
Morbid 01-09-06, 11:37 PM	That one is about crazy house rules. This is just about crazy physical and mental DMs.
Kheldren 01-10-06, 04:08 AM	The biggest complaint about DMs I have is when they don't know the rules. I don't mind if a DM admits to being unsure on some points and open to help (I do this) but when they claim they are very experienced and have been running for years in a "by-the-book campaing" basic mistakes are very annoying. E.g. applying DR to spells. In short - either be right, or accept help and advice (or declare house-rule) - don't claim you know what you are doing and then get it wrong.
Shaggy_Shaggs 01-10-06, 04:22 AM	Playing monsters smarter than they actually are. Ugh. Not every monster is a tactical genius or even smart enough to avoid traps or setting off attacks of opportunity. Playing them all that way sucks. It makes little sense, it punishes players who play against opponents' weaknesses if those weaknesses are mental, and it sucks the sense of accomplishment out of defeating truly bright, tactically superior enemies, because they're just more of the same.
strcpy 01-10-06, 08:47 AM	... stupid duplicate post
strcpy 01-10-06, 08:49 AM	I hate it when the DM mucks around with the plot between sessions. Example. End of session X we were after a bad guy. We end the campaign with our characters sleeping over in a tavern and discussing in character all our plans on capturing and taking this bad guy alive. Start of session Y the bad guy's habbits all change, he turns out to be a good guy in the guise of bad guy and the DM makes up a whole crock of story that did not exist before to explain this. And you know the DM made all this up since the last game. You get the distinct feeling he changed it just because your well formed plan at the end of session X was going to work. Funny enough, players enjoy it when they get to try out their hard thought up plans. Even if they don't work.
lesliweird 01-10-06, 09:50 AM	A while back a friend of mine DMed a desert campaign that was just a blast, however he had 3 big problems. 1. We had been starting a new church for about three months real time before he clued us in that the established church was actually the state and therefore we'd all been commiting treason. We knew he hadn't thought about it much before then, but we felt like it was something that we, all being citizens, probably ought to have known. 2. No gift for names. Our NPCs were "Magic Shop Guy" "uhhhhm... Ted?" "Lord Byron/Tennison/Nelson (George W. Nelson at one point, but that was us picking on him)" because he kept forgettting what he'd named him, "Assclown the merchant" and of course, that lovable "Plot Point the Mason". Yes, we had an NPC whose given name was Plot Point. It got to be a running gag and the players started making up names for him. 3. ADD. He was a great DM because he'd constantly be coming up with new ideas and new monsters, but he'd get bored with people we hadn't actually beaten and they would just disappear. After a while we'd ask things like "hey remember that construct assassin we never beat whose last commands appear to have been to assure our deaths? What happened to him?" "Oh, yeah! I forgot about him!" still a lot of fun though.
Borne Of Hate 01-10-06, 10:21 AM	Playing monsters smarter than they actually are. Ugh. Not every monster is a tactical genius or even smart enough to avoid traps or setting off attacks of opportunity. Playing them all that way sucks. It makes little sense, it punishes players who play against opponents' weaknesses if those weaknesses are mental, and it sucks the sense of accomplishment out of defeating truly bright, tactically superior enemies, because they're just more of the same. THATS GREAT! I hate when wolves avoid AOO! moving to flank is ok but something with minimal int should not realize that they are about to get pummeled when they attack. It drives me crazy that monsters get their surprise round EVERY combat. Our PCs never expect anything. During game last session prior to opening any door, I said (being the fighter) 'ok Im ready for whatever is gonna jump at me, be fired upon me, stab me, or try and eat me that may be behind this door. I cant recall when the last time we as PCs got the jump on somthing. That is one thing that i wanna fix in my game.
Gailbraithe 01-10-06, 02:53 PM	I hate when wolves avoid AOO! moving to flank is ok but something with minimal int should not realize that they are about to get pummeled when they attack. Wolves are actually master tactictians. One of the most effective group fighting techniques is even called "Wolf Pack Tactics" because wolves "invented" it. Wolves are all about the flanking, they always try to avoid blows, get behind people, and go for the ankles/hamstrings. Wolves are quite bright for animals, and what they lack in smarts they more than make up for in cunning. So if your Dm is playing wolves as "smart", that's probably most realistic. Cuz they ain't dummies. More problematic is simple-minded undead - zombies, skeletons - and dumb constructs that flank or avoid AOO. I don't even give those sorts of creatures flanking bonuses when they are in flanking position - it requires too much coordination. Some animals should also be easy to kill with little thought - Dire Boars come to mind as an animal with a bloody simple mind and easily nerfed tactic (Set for Charge, Watch Boar Impale Self On Set Weapon). It drives me crazy that monsters get their surprise round EVERY combat. Our PCs never expect anything. During game last session prior to opening any door, I said (being the fighter) 'ok Im ready for whatever is gonna jump at me, be fired upon me, stab me, or try and eat me that may be behind this door. I cant recall when the last time we as PCs got the jump on somthing. That is one thing that i wanna fix in my game. You'd like my game. My players are always getting the drop on bad guys. And I like to include realistic elements - my bad guys actually sleep occasionally, and PCs can feel free to attack them then, if they can figure out when that is. 2. No gift for names. Our NPCs were "Magic Shop Guy" "uhhhhm... Ted?" "Lord Byron/Tennison/Nelson (George W. Nelson at one point, but that was us picking on him)" because he kept forgettting what he'd named him, "Assclown the merchant" and of course, that lovable "Plot Point the Mason". Yes, we had an NPC whose given name was Plot Point. It got to be a running gag and the players started making up names for him. Send your DM to squid.org Massive name generator. Also buy him a friggin' notebook and a pencil. Do this every session until he gets the point that he has to remember to take notes of his own. 3. ADD. He was a great DM because he'd constantly be coming up with new ideas and new monsters, but he'd get bored with people we hadn't actually beaten and they would just disappear. After a while we'd ask things like "hey remember that construct assassin we never beat whose last commands appear to have been to assure our deaths? What happened to him?" "Oh, yeah! I forgot about him!" Hah, your DM is me! I have several villains who would have conquered the world by now, cept I keep forgetting they exist.
Order 66(6) 01-10-06, 06:14 PM	My DM is actually quite good, however, even good DM's can make big mistakes. I offer these in hopes that other DM's won't make them. 1) Bland villians. Call me crazy, but I actually like it when a foe has a distinctive personality and history that sets them apart from other villians. Although, this has started to change...but only because he's now allowing the players to roleplay certain villians. I'm not sure why this trend has started, but it has been a bit overdone lately because now 4 players also roleplay villians. I'm one of the four, but I started the trend when I turned my PC evil and my DM liked how I played him so much that he just has me roleplay him when he makes an appearance. Okay...so maybe this one is kinda my fault... :P 2) Uber- DM PC's. Unlike #1, I never talked to him about this problem because I know how much he loves to have a PC and to his credit he's done a pretty good job RP'ing the character. The problen is that the character is powergamed to the extreme, and sometimes he shows off the character OOC, specifically mentioning how well the character does certain things, which I find a little annoying sometimes...and I don't really think the other players really care. 3) Choice of enemies. My DM has a nasty habit of throwing the same kind of encounter at us: One really big nasty monster (usually a demon, devil, or outsider) with an insanely high AC and spell resistance. I play a spellcaster, and usually the SR is so high that some battles I literally can't do much of anything...whereas highly combat oriented characters (like his PC) have less of a problem. So sometimes I'm relegated to using support spells like mass fire shield (which lately also don't work because of high SR or obscene amounts of elemental resistance) or choosing from one of my paltry party support spells I've learned like heroism (I'm a sorcerer/fatespinner). Those are really the only three problems I can think of.
MysterYvil 01-10-06, 06:52 PM	Keep Notes Nothing destroys suspension of disbelief quicker than inconsistency. I try to make a note of everything the party does, as they do, who they meet, who they fight, and a very thumbnail sketch of what happened. When they say "remember when..." you can answer with authority. No Plan Survives Contact with the Enemy Rest assured, if your big encounter is a fight with a bandit king, often the players end up wanting to interview him, or befriend him, instead of fighting him. I try to populate my world with PC-neutral creatures. They don't necessarily have any reason to help or to fight the PCs until they meet the PCs. What they do then is based on the creature(s), and the PCs' actions regarding the creature(s). I give them motives and priorities, and let the PCs reap whatever they sow. Allies, Adversaries, Antagonists My players like ongoing storylines. Killing a random rampaging beast is cool, but running across the same folks, or friends/family/allies/enemies of the same folks really lends a campaign an air of verisimilitude. Don't Be Overly Secretive Though the natural tendency of most DMs is to play everything close to their chests, don't hamstring the PCs or the plot by making everything a chore. Joe Villager might not be the brightest, but he'll probably know a bit about his local environment, and with the proper encouragement is often willing to share his knowledge. For example, if the local graveyard is a zombie lair there's a pretty good chance that the locals are going to have noticed, and they'll probably pass along that info to travelers. Sure, a zombie ambush is fun, but it actually just makes a world seem to be an illogical and chaotic place. On a greater scale, before I start a new campaign I do a quick write-up of the campaign's starting point. I put it together like one of those little episode synopses you see in TV Guide. "Count X is looking to hire bodies to patrol his roads. He's offering 3 sp per day, plus free room and board at all local inns. He'll hire any PH race, some non-PH races, and only non-evil, non-true-neutral characters. He'll only hire a group that's worked together as a group for at least one year. In Metagame Voice, make your characters accordingly, you start at 2nd level with 35 points." Yes, it disallows some charactes that your players may have been dying to play, but on the other hand it doesn't leave anyone with a fish-out-of-water character. It also dispenses with the tedious "You're in a tavern when an old man walks in" stuff, and it gives the PCs a good reason to know one another so they don't have to go through the PC vs. PC chest-puffing crap (unless you and your players are into that). Some players need time to adjust to this type of start, but as long as you're willing to grow the campaign around them (don't make them work for Count X forever if that's not what they're ultimately into), it seems to be the most effective way to get a campaign rolling. WRITE UP YOUR HOUSE RULES! Nothing irritates players more than inconsistent, vague, and/or all-of-a-sudden houserules. If you can't write up a coherent list your rules are probably not needed to begin with. The players don't have to agree that your houserules are the best, but if they're forwarned they're usually more than willing to deal with it. MysterYvil ps- pm me if you'd like examples of starting campaign writeups.
Hasmead_Guy 01-12-06, 03:53 AM	I had an old DM that liked to mock players. I became his main target and finally left. Keep in mind, no matter how bad you treat a PC, if you mistreat the actual player, you're going too far. Period.
High Octane 01-12-06, 10:03 AM	Copied from a post in "Whats a Player to do?" a list of deaths in the durrent campaign Im in. This is over the span of 3 years, and 80% of them are not due to our own stupidity I assure you. Wasps nest killed: Half-Orc fighter, a paladin, and a sorcerer. (3 deaths) Mugging assassins killed: My thief. Mob boss killed: Female Cleric Drowned/sea wolf killed: My ranger (rezzed) and a mentat (1st edition sorcerer) halfling and a cleric. Garfits (mini-gargoyles) killed: My ranger (rezzed, this is #2) and a thief/fighter (Rezzed) Stone Giant killed: My ranger (#3) and a magic user (both rezzed by Deus ex Machina, specifically the minor artifact weapons we were using) Hobgoblins killed: My ranger and the same magic user, both stayed dead. A orc in a grapple kdecapitated: My paladin (To be fair, I got like 2 natural 1s and the orc got a natural 20. Rezzed by Deus ex Machina) 100 Orcs killed (This was a bad situation where if we hadnt acted, a bunch of slaves would have been taken into a fortress, but we were dumb to attack): My paladin, a cleric, and a magic user/thief. (TPK) A titan: Basically killed my thief, but a minor artifact instead stopped the damage from landing (Had to talk my DM into it) A pirate captain kiled: A samurai, but he was brought back via Deus ex Machina. (Literally. A god raised him. Long story.) A riddle puzzle killed: A halfling cleric played by a non too bright player. Point of note: Up until this point, all characters involved in the campaign were never over level 4. A gang killed: My thief (Rezzed by Deus ex Machina) Some lucky thieves killed: A magic user. A robot (LOOONG story) killed: My thief (rez #2) and a halfling assassin. Some oriental monster killed: My mentat (sorcerer equivelant, we were playing 2 characters each at this point rezzed) A demon spawn Coup de Gras'd: My thief, now thief/cleric (Rez #3) A bag of many things killed (via lightning, long story): A ninja and his magic user wife (both player characters, played by different players) A door we were busting all our resources out to open killed (via traps): A cleric and my Bushi (Oriental fighter) The latest death was my thief/cleric and my DM had recently passed a 3 rez limit. He died because he, like the rest of the group that was out, started running from an obviously uber-powerful threat. No big deal, we got away, but my thief/cleric became separated from the rest of the group, and had no skills in survival or finding everyone, and the DM was rolling encounters. Eventually he was robbed by the natives down to his armor and then died from giant ants. Im mad because he was my favorite character and died in a less than fashionable way.
green_yawgmoth 01-12-06, 11:15 AM	That one is about crazy house rules. This is just about crazy physical and mental DMs. If you'd have bothered to read a page of that thread, any page at all, you'd have realized that's what that sticky is for. It's not just house rules, it's all manner of DM psychoses. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Some_call_me_Tim 01-12-06, 11:19 AM	I would say my biggest pet peeve is a DM not rolling with the punches. This generally happens more with pre-made adventures but can happen when a DM wants a particular outcome from an encounter. However, I don't mean just rail-roading the players, I've had DMs who just flat out refuse to allow the PCs do anything not explicitly written into the rules. I think a lot of them never played 1st edition where almost every task for which there is now a skill was ad libed. [I'm not saying 1st edition is better only that it taught DMs to make up die rolls whenever a PC wanted to do something that wasn't covering in the rules.] My second biggest pet peeve is always fighting in a featureless blank box. Its like figthing on the holodeck while it is turned off. Terrain really makes each fight unique. Instead of just standing around pounding each other, the characters can use some of their skills. I love fights in taverns/inns with all the terrain--duck behind a table, throw a chair, jump up on the table, use the stairs, swing from the chandelier, etc. [Note the only thing worse than no terrain is unrealistic terrain--such as ships with 10' passageways, mines with 15' wide 20' high tunnels. I understand it is easier to use these conventions but why not make a ships passageway 2-1/2 feet wide and force medium creatures to squeeze and keep the barbarian from being enlarged, plus the ability of the rogue to tumble through a square increases in value. Since the combatants take -4 to hit and -4 to AC the chance of hitting remains the same if they choose to just slug it out, but hopefully they will try something different to change the odds. Since not all fights will be the same it will force the players to use different tactics in different situations, which I feel is a really good thing.
Red_Decker 01-12-06, 11:44 AM	I really hate it when regular towns folk such as merchants, city watch are suddenly at least 2 pc class levels higher then you. Was playing an evil character that was trying to free his brother from a slave trader, the slave trader was unarmed and misteriously had Improved Unarmed Strike and was able to knock my PC out cold because of it. Sometimes you have to fight the city watch but when they're all Level 10 and you're level 5 it just grates on the nerves a little bit. Now I could understand if you were say being arrested by a large cities elite watchmen, but you're in a small town with a population of maybe 600 including traveling merchants, the watch shouldn't be higher then level 2, maybe a level 4 captain. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
Dead_Karma 01-12-06, 02:07 PM	If you'd have bothered to read a page of that thread, any page at all, you'd have realized that's what that sticky is for. It's not just house rules, it's all manner of DM psychoses. yes, but as you can also see, there is enough room for more than one. besides that things is so massive that some of the things in there won't ever be seen again.
was_fired 01-12-06, 03:00 PM	Note the only thing worse than no terrain is unrealistic terrain--such as ships with 10' passageways, mines with 15' wide 20' high tunnels. I understand it is easier to use these conventions but why not make a ships passageway 2-1/2 feet wide and force medium creatures to squeeze and keep the barbarian from being enlarged, plus the ability of the rogue to tumble through a square increases in value. Since the combatants take -4 to hit and -4 to AC the chance of hitting remains the same if they choose to just slug it out, but hopefully they will try something different to change the odds. Since not all fights will be the same it will force the players to use different tactics in different situations, which I feel is a really good thing. Your right about the ship, odds are you won't find more than a 10ft x 10ft space that is on the same level or without obstruction, but mines often will have tunnels that are 15ft wide and 20ft high. Although these will only be the main tunnels of huge mines, and they need to be this large to allow airflow.
20goingon1232 01-12-06, 09:39 PM	It drives me crazy that monsters get their surprise round EVERY combat. Our PCs never expect anything. During game last session prior to opening any door, I said (being the fighter) 'ok Im ready for whatever is gonna jump at me, be fired upon me, stab me, or try and eat me that may be behind this door. I cant recall when the last time we as PCs got the jump on somthing. That is one thing that i wanna fix in my game. You were lucky. My old DM would make us roll initiatives because "you are ready and so were they. So, whoever acts first wins." This is after we specifically said that if anyone else appears in that teleportation circle (our contact appeared and told us he was being chased), we open fire. His reply: I don't allow you to ready an action more than 3 rounds. Interestingly enough, the bad guys appeared 4 rounds later, with the magic user fully spelled up. Uh-huh... Anyone want to guess why he is an "old" DM?
Some_call_me_Tim 01-13-06, 11:24 AM	...mines often will have tunnels that are 15ft wide and 20ft high. Although these will only be the main tunnels of huge mines, and they need to be this large to allow airflow. While a huge modern mine might have such a spacious entrance, I've never seen one built using pre-industrial technology. The pictures I've seen of ancient mines look downright claustrophobic even for experienced miners or spelunkers. Generally, there is no reason to make an adit (horizontal entrance passage) so tall as everything above a man's head is wasted effort. The real mines I've been in (all circa late 1800's early 1900's) generally have entrances wide enough for a mule and cart and while tall enough to walk, I probably would not want to ride a pogo stick in one. http://www.dotphoto.com/SAN1/BD/40/E1/iBD40E186-84DD-4A5D-B502-3C5ED2BAFE68.jpg Here's a picture from the Queen Copper Mine in Bisbee Arizona. You can see the driver is standing on the mine train so this part of the passage is perhaps 8 feet high and maybe 6 feet wide. Now some of the 'rooms' (stopes) can be quite large as there is a good economic reasons to take as much as the ore as possible, but the passages to and from these areas tend to be as small as practicable.
BadCatMan 01-13-06, 11:34 AM	After my last character died for the umpteenth and the DM blames it on me, saying that I only did straight-forward attacks, when I was afraid of the annoyed looks I always got when I 'slowed things down' by trying a special attack, I make a new character with Imp. Grapple, Imp. Trip and Combat Reflexes. My character's facing an enemy arcane spellcaster: Me: I'll trip him. <success> DM: He gets up - Me: Ha! Attack of Opportunity! DM: Um, no, he'll stay down. He casts a spell - Me: Attack of Opportunity! DM: Uh, he casts defensively. (or he rolled out of the way, I can't recall.) This from the guy who'll scream out "Metagamer! Metagamer! Plus 20 to DC" (of whatever I was about to do) no matter how much my action was based in the character's own knowledge and intentions.
RedWizard 01-13-06, 02:02 PM	Sounds like you need a new DM.
MasterOfPsychic 01-14-06, 10:16 PM	Well, the worst thing about not beeing a DM, is that I always think that IF I where a DM, then THIS and THAT would be possible, and the players could do WHAT and WHERE....