Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kopana 05-03-07, 07:04 PM	Alright, in this new game that I'm playing, we're introducing new people, a fighter, a rogue, a druid, etc. None of them aside from me and the DM have played before, so in order to keep them out of trouble, I decide I'll make a cleric, great choice for taking of the other guys, maybe they can enjoy learning the system without worrying about getting the snot beat out of them if they have a healer. So I make my healer, I decide that I want to go with St. Cuthbert, god of retribution, with the Strength and Destruction domains, which rather suits me :) So I make the cleric, and like ten minutes ago the DM messaged me on MSN and told me he has to go to New York until Monday, he also gives me the news, that I can't be a cleric of St. Cuthbert, because he always runs custom campaigns with homemade pantheons, which really annoys me. So he sends me his list of gods, all like... eight of them or so, bleh, each of which has two domains, so I look, and Destruction and Strength aren't even listed on the damn thing. What really gets me now that I look at it, is that it's the exact friggin' antithesis of my ideal pantheon? The god of fire is nice? The goddess of water is the bringer of hate? What the hell? Below is the whole thing, any opinions on how I can still get the Strength and Destruction domains? Please don't say champion a cause, because I am so sick and tired of that, never once in my life have I ever played with a Cleric who has championed a god, everyone does causes and alignments now it seems. Gods: Deranasius father of time, keeper of knowledge. Deranasius is said to be the original god, he created the entire universe and is by far the most powerful god, yet also the most docile. After creating the universe he created the 9 other gods and gave them each a choice of what to rule over. After giving them their power he retreated into his own domain, and remains there to this day. Alignment: True nuetral Domains: Knowledge, and Magic Valien mother of life, carrier of souls. Valien is one of the three triplet created by Deranasius, she is constantly squabbling with her sister Kerain, and trying to kill her brother Maranarius. She helps souls along to her domain of the after life where they can spend the rest of time in bliss. She is constantly fighting her brother Maranarius for the souls of the dead and consistently asks him to release the souls from their torment... He rarely does. Alignment: Lawful good Domains: Death, and Good Kerien mother of the spirit, carrier of souls. Kerain is one of the three triplets created by Dernasius, she tends to remain out of the fights between her brother and sister but is often dragged into it when the two are tearing souls from the clutches of each other. She is the least powerful of the three due to the fact she only takes the souls that are either rejected by both or that both are literally ripping from each others hands. Alignment: Chaotic nuetral Domains: Death, and Luck Maranarius father of death, carrier of souls. Maranarius is one of the three triplets created by Deranasius, he often fights with his sister Valien over the souls of the dead, and tends to get violent when he is denied a soul. He tends to leave his sister Kerain alone until she takes the soul of a person he has fought hard with his sister for. He often sends minions to the side of a dying person in order to ferry the soul to him without risk of his sister stealing it. Alignment: Lawful evil Domains: Death, and Evil Tyranius father of Fire, bringer of joy. Tyranius was the fourth god created by Deranasius and chose to reign over fire. He created the elemental plane of fire and the creatures that dwell within. He takes great pleasure from helping people that are freezing by creating a strong fire next to the person. He often gets angry with Helliun for causing people misery and some times even lashes out at her Alignment: Chaotic good Domains: Fire, and Protection Helliun mother of water, bringer of misery. Helliun was the fifth god created by Deranasius and chose to reign over water. She created the elemental plane of water and all the creatures the reside within it. She enjoys flooding towns on a regular basis and gets upset at Tyranius for getting angry at her for having fun. She some times makes it rain on a fire just to spite Tyanius. Alignment: Chaotic evil Domains: Water, Chaos Lyis mother of air, bringer of love. Lyis was the sixth god created by Deranasius and chose to reign over air. She created the elemental plane of air and all the monsters that live within it. She enjoys watching love begin and some times influences mortals to fall in love. She tends to remain out of the affairs of other gods but will get involved if it begins to harm innocents. Alignment: Neutral good Domains: Healing, and Air Soarianis father of earth, bringer of hate. Soarianis was the seventh god created by Deranasius and chose to reign over earth. He created the elemental plane of earth and all the things that are within it. He loves to create earthquakes below cities and watch the people scramble. He enjoys watching mortals fight and often causes wars just so that he can, he and Lyis tend not to get along, most of all when she stops him from demolishing an entire city or starting a world war. Alignment: Neutral evil Domains: Earth, and War Lerduul father of shadows, bringer of lies. Lerduul was the eighth god created by Deranasius and chose to reign over shadows. He created the elemental plane of shadow and all the created that dwell within it. He loves to watch creatures walk around inside of his veil of darkness and will play mind games with them the entire time they are within the shadows that are his realm. Alignment: Neutral Evil Domains: Shadow, and Trickery Alkatosh father of light, bringer of truth. Alkatosh was nineth and final godcreated by Deranasius and chose to reign over light. He created the elemental plane of light and all that live in it. He lights the way for travelers and is in a near constant fight with Lerduul. Alignment: Lawful neutral Domains: Sun, and travel I'll edit this as soon as I can figure out how to put stuff into a spoiler box. Oh, and btw, don't tell me my DM's just being a dumbass or anything, cuz' he's MY dumbass, and I can sorta appreciate what he's trying to do by always making his custom campaign, I just can't understand why he seems to hate prepublished material of all kinds, from adventures to campaign settings, even if we really want to play it, even if it's really really awesome.
Arkidisey 05-03-07, 07:13 PM	Well, Rohok and Marrer haven't played before, but I've been playing for 4-5 years. You can, like I have, give him constructive criticism on what to add and change. Like, The god of shadows was gonna be Lawful Evil. I convinced him it would be better to have him Neutral Evil. (Which was so it would fit me a little better.) You can probably just tell him Earth is a great domain for strength, or Fire for destruction, or both. Also, I told him it would be good to add Racial Deities as well, but I never really finished that topic with him.
Romtos 05-03-07, 07:14 PM	Don't follow a god. Follow a philosophy, an idea. A cleric does not need a god.
Kopana 05-03-07, 07:15 PM	Please don't say champion a cause, because I am so sick and tired of that, never once in my life have I ever played with a Cleric who has championed a god, everyone does causes and alignments now it seems. QFE
Azar 05-03-07, 07:18 PM	Honestly, thats not too bad a list of deities - my suggestion would be to ask your DM to expand the portfolios of each one. Currently your character has access to 17 of the ~24 core domains (Not to mention the countless other domains from splat-books/campaign settings). Currently, every cleric is forced to focus on the exact same thing as their fellow clerics - while new deities can be interesting and help immerse players into a new world, limiting the choices a player has is never fun. Come on, even monster dieties grant access to three domains and their little more blurbs after monster entry! If your DM is adamant about the limited domains, you can try to play a deity-less cleric* (Page 32 of the PHB) - but that might not fly with your DM. Is the DM limiting your access to domains because of his creative vision? Or his vision of balance? If he is limiting you (And his world) through his creative vision perhaps you could suggest that each diety has saints or scions? These would allow each deity to remain as a monolithic primal force but still allows the religions to have more character and be well rounded. Good luck with whatever you try! :D *To clarify, when I say deity-less cleric I do not mean a cleric who champions a cause. For example, a tribal shaman who believes in animal worship has no Deity looking over his shoulders but still has access to the Animal and Nature domains. In essence, you would be creating your own religion (Not necassarily "Deity") - this would allow you to further customize your character and add another dimension to the world. Could be very classy if handled correctly!
Ceirnian 05-03-07, 07:19 PM	Play a cleric of a cause, choose what domains you want. In game say you follow X god. Problem solved.
Toloran 05-03-07, 07:21 PM	I see nothing wrong with that pantheon. Every god makes perfect sense for both their alignment, personality, and domains. Granted, it doesn't fit the usual norms but that isn't inherently a bad thing. A culture that is constantly threatend by floods and mudslides from rain would of course have a god (or goddess) of water that was evil. Also, a culture who uses fire on a regular basis would have a fire good who is good. I would have personally had the goddess of water be lawful instead of chaotic (water always runs down hill and all that) but chaotic works too. Now, what seems to me that the real problem is is that your prefered play style is very different from the DMs. You should talk to the DM about this and you might be able to come to an agreement. Otherwise, some players and DMs just can run together.
Arkidisey 05-03-07, 07:24 PM	A Custom Campaign should fit everyone. When I use my world, and someone needs something, I mold the world around that idea, to envelope not only that idea, but everyone else's. However, I do need it to be within the lore of my world, which is natural. Like I said, just ask him to tweak his gods a little.
Arkidisey 05-03-07, 07:25 PM	I see nothing wrong with that pantheon. Every god makes perfect sense for both their alignment, personality, and domains. Granted, it doesn't fit the usual norms but that isn't inherently a bad thing. A culture that is constantly threatend by floods and mudslides from rain would of course have a god (or goddess) of water that was evil. Also, a culture who uses fire on a regular basis would have a fire good who is good. I would have personally had the goddess of water be lawful instead of chaotic (water always runs down hill and all that) but chaotic works too. Now, what seems to me that the real problem is is that your prefered play style is very different from the DMs. You should talk to the DM about this and you might be able to come to an agreement. Otherwise, some players and DMs just can run together. Why would water be lawful? Its one of the most chaotic forces of Nature, who is chaotic in and of herself. As for the downhill thing, thats just gravity and a law of physics.
Evil DM Mk3 05-03-07, 07:26 PM	Well there are on ly 3 possible ways forward 1.Follow a casue 2.Negotiate for a new god (or be utterly mad and follow a cause whilst listening to voiced in your ear that CLAIM they are a god) 3.Follow a god here and get over it. These gods are OK, a bit too clumped, some are clear lifts from other places, in particular that first one is a clear Boocob clone. I would never be happy with them in my setting though.
Far_Traveler 05-03-07, 07:27 PM	Well, Perhaps you could convince him to expand the domains of any given god, most gods have four domains. See if you could get him to fit Strength and Destruction on to one of em.
criticalstriker 05-03-07, 07:30 PM	These gods are OK, a bit too clumped, some are clear lifts from other places, in particular that first one is a clear Boocob clone. I would never be happy with them in my setting though. Actually, none of my Gods are clones. I created them for my world, i didn't take from from other sources.
Kopana 05-03-07, 07:31 PM	Well actually,they aren't clear lifts from anywhere, he tries to be original when he does this stuff and he doesn't copy anything, it's just that there's only so many ways you can make a god, and he's somehow oblivious to the fact that his gods are named "Tyranus" (tyrant) and crap, when we pointed it out about the names of some of his countries he was just like "Huh.. never noticed that.. that is SO weird!"
Azar 05-03-07, 07:35 PM	Wait, so everyone in this campaign is on the forums right now? Huh... to the OP - Just talk about it with your group! Good luck! :D
Evil DM Mk3 05-03-07, 07:39 PM	Ok then I rephrase it to: These gods are OK, a bit too clumped and some are based on highly used ideas, such as a powerful, reclusive, quiet true neutral god of magic and knowladge. I would never be happy with them in my setting though.
claypigeons 05-03-07, 07:41 PM	Fire gets Protection? Seriously? Fire, of all things, should have destruction. Anyway... Has your DM stated why his gods only get to govern 2 domains? Beyond that, why do so many deities have overlapping domains? If they got the choice of what to have lordship over, why'd so many pick the same as some of the others? Also, is there going to be a lot of emphasis on death, life after death and/or the connection between life and death? If not, have your DM get off that whole bit. Three gods get the death domain, and "carry souls"... :confused: Beyond that, see if your DM will expand each gods list of domains. Barring that, it looks like you would need to be a "cleric of an ideal" if you truly want to have Strength and Destruction as your domains.
Kopana 05-03-07, 07:46 PM	I'm kinda getting attached to being a cleric of angry. That's an ideal right? It would definitely fit Destruction and Strength, I'm the cleric of angry. How am I? Oh, I'm good, I'm good.. yea... ARGHABOOGABOO!! ME CRUSHISH YOU!!!! GRRRR!
criticalstriker 05-03-07, 07:46 PM	The reason there are three Gods who rule over death is because of the fight for the souls. Valien guides to them happiness, Kerien wishes to protect the souls that have been rejected by her brother and sister, and Maranarius wishes to put the souls into a pit of eternal suffering. As for the two domains, I'll add two more to each God.
Evil DM Mk3 05-03-07, 07:48 PM	Actually that is a good point. The clumping was a referance to the three death gods. But some of the pairs defy logic. This is how I would deal with tripplets of gods around the concept of death. 1.Fairly vanila death god, probalby a reserved LN. 2.A god of healing and rejuvinations, a NG or CG, the protection from death. 3.A god of undead, well you can see where I am going. Only one (maybe two) should have death as a domain. Still fairly dull, why? Too much overlap! Death does not ahve to be the first concern of a death god! A god of medicine, a god of law or a god of schollars can all also be death gods.
criticalstriker 05-03-07, 07:57 PM	Your right, death doesn't have to be the first concern of a God. But it is the first concern of these three. Valien refuses to allow Maranarius to torment souls, so she protects as many as possible. Considering how many people die per day, thats a lot of work. Maranarius refuses to allow Valien to guide the souls to happiness, so he captures as many as possible. And, like i said above, thats a lot of work. Then there is Kerian who wishes for her brother and sister to stop fighting.
daggeroflath 05-03-07, 08:01 PM	Why would water be lawful? Its one of the most chaotic forces of Nature, who is chaotic in and of herself. As for the downhill thing, thats just gravity and a law of physics. Surface Tension ... No, seriously, I'm at a loss here. Tides maybe?
Evil DM Mk3 05-03-07, 08:07 PM	Valien refuses to allow Maranarius to torment souls, so she protects as many as possible. Shakey justification for the death domain but an ideal candidate for Protection and probably healing. So where are they? Strange as it may seem you don't need to have the death domain to be a death god. The power is far from good and in any case good clerics CAN'T USE SOME OF THE DOMAIN SPELLS AS THEY ARE EVIL. As originaly written all of her clerics have to be good!
Toloran 05-03-07, 08:08 PM	Surface Tension ... No, seriously, I'm at a loss here. Tides maybe? Sayings like "Water always flows downhill" and "As regular as the tides" make me think lawful *shrug*. It was also for the whole fire being the opposite of water thing.
Kopana 05-03-07, 08:16 PM	Well, we just started playing, trying to get a little bit of fun in before he leaves for New York for the weekend : P So I decided I'm going to be a Cleric of Angry, subject only to the wills of the almighty voices in her head which occasionally tell her to kill things and override her impulse control.
TheAngryFish 05-03-07, 08:16 PM	Death and luck sound like decent domain combination, but I can see how anoying this is, you can't even access all the domains in just the player's handbook. I would see about being a cleric "of a cause".
criticalstriker 05-03-07, 08:20 PM	I probably should of mentioned this earlier, but death magic such as animate dead and vampiric touch are not illegal, or evil, in my game. They aren't the most well looked upon form of magic, but aren't evil. And, she collects the souls of the dead for power, while they are in eternal bliss, she is still using the power of their souls. I would consider that worthy of the Death domain...
daggeroflath 05-03-07, 08:33 PM	Sayings like "Water always flows downhill" and "As regular as the tides" make me think lawful *shrug*. It was also for the whole fire being the opposite of water thing. Actually thinking about it a bit more, water finding its own level has been used for measurements for quite some time. Water clocks, and even a roman system for long distance complex communication all used water in highly lawful fashions. Societies that relied upon the regular scheduled flooding of a river (such as the nile) for their agriculture would also be strongly inclined to consider water to be lawful.
hangedman1984 05-04-07, 12:53 AM	I probably should of mentioned this earlier, but death magic such as animate dead and vampiric touch are not illegal, or evil, in my game. They aren't the most well looked upon form of magic, but aren't evil. And, she collects the souls of the dead for power, while they are in eternal bliss, she is still using the power of their souls. I would consider that worthy of the Death domain... You could always just give her the repose (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/domains.htm#reposeDomain) domain instead. Its like death, only good.
Nephlite 05-04-07, 01:07 AM	Gods: Deranasius father of time, keeper of knowledge. Deranasius is said to be the original god, he created the entire universe and is by far the most powerful god, yet also the most docile. After creating the universe he created the 9 other gods and gave them each a choice of what to rule over. After giving them their power he retreated into his own domain, and remains there to this day. Alignment: True nuetral Domains: Knowledge, and Magic Creation (in Complete Divine) and Time (In PHB) seem appropriate to add. Valien mother of life, carrier of souls. Valien is one of the three triplet created by Deranasius, she is constantly squabbling with her sister Kerain, and trying to kill her brother Maranarius. She helps souls along to her domain of the after life where they can spend the rest of time in bliss. She is constantly fighting her brother Maranarius for the souls of the dead and consistently asks him to release the souls from their torment... He rarely does. Alignment: Lawful good Domains: Death, and Good Lawful fits. As does Competition (as she competes with broither) found in Complete Divine. Kerien mother of the spirit, carrier of souls. Kerain is one of the three triplets created by Dernasius, she tends to remain out of the fights between her brother and sister but is often dragged into it when the two are tearing souls from the clutches of each other. She is the least powerful of the three due to the fact she only takes the souls that are either rejected by both or that both are literally ripping from each others hands. Alignment: Chaotic nuetral Domains: Death, and Luck Chaos fits. Cooperation fits as she wants them too. Maranarius father of death, carrier of souls. Maranarius is one of the three triplets created by Deranasius, he often fights with his sister Valien over the souls of the dead, and tends to get violent when he is denied a soul. He tends to leave his sister Kerain alone until she takes the soul of a person he has fought hard with his sister for. He often sends minions to the side of a dying person in order to ferry the soul to him without risk of his sister stealing it. Alignment: Lawful evil Domains: Death, and Evil Lawful and Greed (as he hoards souls). Tyranius father of Fire, bringer of joy. Tyranius was the fourth god created by Deranasius and chose to reign over fire. He created the elemental plane of fire and the creatures that dwell within. He takes great pleasure from helping people that are freezing by creating a strong fire next to the person. He often gets angry with Helliun for causing people misery and some times even lashes out at her Alignment: Chaotic good Domains: Fire, and Protection Joy Domain. Good or Chaos. Helliun mother of water, bringer of misery. Helliun was the fifth god created by Deranasius and chose to reign over water. She created the elemental plane of water and all the creatures the reside within it. She enjoys flooding towns on a regular basis and gets upset at Tyranius for getting angry at her for having fun. She some times makes it rain on a fire just to spite Tyanius. Alignment: Chaotic evil Domains: Water, Chaos Evil and Destruction. Lyis mother of air, bringer of love. Lyis was the sixth god created by Deranasius and chose to reign over air. She created the elemental plane of air and all the monsters that live within it. She enjoys watching love begin and some times influences mortals to fall in love. She tends to remain out of the affairs of other gods but will get involved if it begins to harm innocents. Alignment: Neutral good Domains: Healing, and Air I think there is as Love domain (In Exalted Deeds book or Complete Divine). Good Domain fits. Soarianis father of earth, bringer of hate. Soarianis was the seventh god created by Deranasius and chose to reign over earth. He created the elemental plane of earth and all the things that are within it. He loves to create earthquakes below cities and watch the people scramble. He enjoys watching mortals fight and often causes wars just so that he can, he and Lyis tend not to get along, most of all when she stops him from demolishing an entire city or starting a world war. Alignment: Neutral evil Domains: Earth, and War Evil Domain. Lerduul father of shadows, bringer of lies. Lerduul was the eighth god created by Deranasius and chose to reign over shadows. He created the elemental plane of shadow and all the created that dwell within it. He loves to watch creatures walk around inside of his veil of darkness and will play mind games with them the entire time they are within the shadows that are his realm. Alignment: Neutral Evil Domains: Shadow, and Trickery Evil Domain and not sure. Alkatosh father of light, bringer of truth. Alkatosh was nineth and final godcreated by Deranasius and chose to reign over light. He created the elemental plane of light and all that live in it. He lights the way for travelers and is in a near constant fight with Lerduul. Alignment: Lawful neutral Domains: Sun, and travel Lawful domain. War or conflict Domain as he fights with Lerduul.
Jenny With The Lantern 05-04-07, 01:20 AM	Isn't it possible to have lesser deities and all that jazz? St. Cuthbert could be a human god but virtually unknown to elves and orcs. Would that be acceptible to your DM/you?
danielinthewolvesden 05-04-07, 03:40 AM	None of them aside from me and the DM have played before, so in order to keep them out of trouble, I decide I'll make a cleric, great choice for taking of the other guys, maybe they can enjoy learning the system without worrying about getting the snot beat out of them if they have a healer. So- play a Dragon Shaman. Or a Spirit Shaman. Or a Favoured Soul. Or a bard. But you know, there are dozens and dozens of pantheons already out there, why make another? Use the Norse pantheon, or the FR Pantheon, or....
PenderGrass 05-04-07, 04:18 AM	Why would anyone play a cleric without the healing domain - ever? Unless you're an NPC cleric, your main job will be to heal people in the group. The healing domain rocks in that regard. Add the healing domain to augment healing - and sheesh, you are an unstoppable healing machine. The other domain is a toss-up. But, as other people have suggested - just choose to not worship a god (unless your DM forbids that option from the PHB/Core/RAW) and then pick your 2 domains. Also, as other people have stated - using the word "crappy" is pretty harsh - especially when you are speaking with a bunch of strangers. Instead you should opt to say something like "I don't like the options my DM is giving me." :dragon: ****
kelvinaw273 05-04-07, 06:49 AM	Clerics being limited by the portfolios of their gods and by their strictures is one of the downsides of being a cleric, just like a druid has alignment restrictions and a paladin has his code. Admittedly it's one that is very often conveniently overlooked by many, but it is a very real limitation on CoDzilla. Having said that, looking at the list it seems rather Death-oriented, and I would suggest each deity have a choice of 3 or 4 domains, not just two (many PrCs and feats allow an extra domain to be gained, so this is not an unreasonable request).
Cardinal Teplin 05-04-07, 10:46 AM	Go for valien, and take a lawful/judgement/protector approach, which isn't all that far from being a cleric of St Cuthbert anyway. Death is an unfortunate domain, in that as a lawful good character you won't be able to use most of it, and neither will any of the rest of her clerics, but if he's expanding the choices, you could go for one of those. With a bit of thought, you could make a 'smite in judgement' character into a 'smite in judgement about death' character. A slight change in emphasis, but the idea can remain more or less the same. And find out if your DM has been reading the recent fantasy books by Lousis Mc Master Bujold, because the whole sibling gods of death thing does sound really quite familiar...
Hydryh 05-04-07, 11:04 AM	Wow. That is a crappy pantheon. You might suggest that if nothing else, he use all of the domains in the PHB, and give each god a minimum of three domains. Domian choices are in my opinion one of the best ways for clerics of the same got to make themselves unique.
wonlee76 05-04-07, 12:03 PM	The pantheon in size isn't that bad. Dragonlance is a campaign setting with a low number of gods. My problem is the number of domains each god gets. I would recommend 4 domains due to the low number of gods. Suggestions: Deranasius: Father of Time and Keeper of Knowledge Domains: Knowledge, Magic, Creation, and maybe make up a "time" domain that makes sense. Valien: Mother of Life, Carrier of Souls Domains: Good, Law, Repose (good equivalent of Death domain), Community Kerien, mother of the spirit, carrier of souls. Domains: Death, Repose, Protection, ??? Maranarius: father of death, carrier of souls. Domains: Death, Evil, Darkness, ??? Tyranius: Father of Fire, Bringer of Joy Domains: Fire, Protection, Strength, ??? Helliun: mother of water, bringer of treachery Domains: Water, Chaos, Luck, Travel Lyris: mother of air, bringer of love Domains: Healing, Air, Charm, Good Soaranis: mother of earth, bringer of hate Domains: Earth, War, Destruction, ??? Lerduul: father of shadows, bringer of lies Domains: Shadow, Trickery, Madness, Darkness Alkatosh: father of light, bringer of truth Domains: Sun, Travel, Law, Glory *All domains listed with the exception of the Shadow domain are in the SRD. I'm guessing the Shadow Domain is either a custom domain or the DM misnamed the Darkness Domain.
KismetRose 05-04-07, 02:50 PM	The reason there are three Gods who rule over death is because of the fight for the souls. Valien guides to them happiness, Kerien wishes to protect the souls that have been rejected by her brother and sister, and Maranarius wishes to put the souls into a pit of eternal suffering. As for the two domains, I'll add two more to each God. Kudos to you for coming here, looking at what people've said, and taking it constructively. It's not like you asked for a critique of your pantheon but it sounds like you're going to listen to folks anyway, and without being nasty the way that folks on forums often are. You get some cool points for that.
danielinthewolvesden 05-04-07, 03:16 PM	Why would anyone play a cleric without the healing domain - ever? Unless you're an NPC cleric, your main job will be to heal people in the group. The healing domain rocks in that regard. Add the healing domain to augment healing - and sheesh, you are an unstoppable healing machine. 'Cause Healing is not a very good domain. It adds no new spells and the ability gained is minor. The granted ability from a domain is often a feat, and Augment healing is quite a bit more powerful than Healing.
claypigeons 05-04-07, 03:33 PM	'Cause Healing is not a very good domain. It adds no new spells and the ability gained is minor. Very true. The healing domain is kind of worthless, actually. So you get one extra heal per level... if you are facing enemies so tough that 4 heals per level isn't enough already, you might want to increase your ranks in Decision Making.
PenderGrass 05-04-07, 08:12 PM	Very true. The healing domain is kind of worthless, actually. So you get one extra heal per level... if you are facing enemies so tough that 4 heals per level isn't enough already, you might want to increase your ranks in Decision Making. Actually you cast as +1 level for healing spells and always have a heal spell handy without digging into your normal spells per day. When you have a fellow PC die by 1 point, you will wish you had taken it. Trust me. :dragon: ****
Ceirnian 05-04-07, 08:50 PM	Actually you cast as +1 level for healing spells and always have a heal spell handy without digging into your normal spells per day. When you have a fellow PC die by 1 point, you will wish you had taken it. Trust me. :dragon: **** You lose out on diversity to get one extra heal a day... why not just get an emergency potion / scroll / wand instead? I'd much rather be able to cast Time Stop over Mass heal as my domain spell, since I can spontaneously heal anyway.
PenderGrass 05-04-07, 08:54 PM	You lose out on diversity to get one extra heal a day... why not just get an emergency potion / scroll / wand instead? I'd much rather be able to cast Time Stop over Mass heal as my domain spell, since I can spontaneously heal anyway. Every point of healing helps - just like every point of AC, saving throw modifier and anything else. I have seen too many PCs die by one point to not feel that a healer's main goal is to heal - not stop time or fight (that is what you have meat shields and fire-balling wizards). I don't know, maybe that is why so many people at conventions are amazed at how well my clerics heal - because too many people don't focus on healing when they play clerics. :dragon: ****
criticalstriker 05-04-07, 10:10 PM	Actually, she could use the domain spells from the death domain because, as i stated above, the spells arent evil, or illegal, in my world. And find out if your DM has been reading the recent fantasy books by Lousis Mc Master Bujold, because the whole sibling gods of death thing does sound really quite familiar... No, i havent read them. Are they good? Would you recommend them?
LadyAlaria 05-04-07, 10:28 PM	Actually thinking about it a bit more, water finding its own level has been used for measurements for quite some time. Water clocks, and even a roman system for long distance complex communication all used water in highly lawful fashions. Societies that relied upon the regular scheduled flooding of a river (such as the nile) for their agriculture would also be strongly inclined to consider water to be lawful. Absolutely. The first true kingdoms and empires were built on the control of water. There is even a term for Sumer, Egypt, and the Indus civilizations - "Hydraulic". The order required for proper canal management (and thus the feeding of the people) is what drove the creation of true civilization.
Kopana 05-04-07, 11:36 PM	Well, the DM is gone to New York for the weekend, which sucks : P One of the players left as soon as he discovered that we did 'one-liners' and were so 'restricted by the rules'. He kept trying to type paragraphs and such and was downright appalled at me and the other person for talking in such a manner. FYI, we play using the Fantasy Grounds program, that's why it comes up, we'd say about eight things while he typed out one. I ended up being a cleric of angry, literally I'm a cleric of all the worlds collective anger. I wanted to worship a god, no one seems to do that anymore, but oh well. The story is that while I'm pretty smart and all-around pretty nice, on occasion the voices in my head will completely override my impulse control and toss in a suggestion, such as "Your axe is thirsty, set it down in that puddle, he'll appreciate it!" and "Goblins are disgusting and small, you must crush them!" so I 'angry' at them and attack. It's an awful lot of fun to roleplay thus far :) and I can't wait to see how we meet the third player who couldn't be there on that occasion. I'd like to thank everyone for their help, I'll continue to check this so by all rights keep talking. Also, I forgot to mention, but because of the new players (well, just one now), this is a core-only campaign. I say this because I've noticed people suggesting a few domains from other books and one person suggested a few alternatives to a cleric. Oh, and as you guys have seen, I don't really mean anything but saying "crappy pantheon", that's just the way we talk in our group, it's not really insulting at this point, it's just my opinion of it.
Kursk 05-05-07, 09:54 AM	A Custom Campaign should fit everyone. When I use my world, and someone needs something, I mold the world around that idea, to envelope not only that idea, but everyone else's. However, I do need it to be within the lore of my world, which is natural. Like I said, just ask him to tweak his gods a little. Umm, wrong. If you add s/g every time someone whines you soon have a nonsensical world that looses internal consistency. Unless of course the world was not really designed in the 1st place.
Nephlite 05-05-07, 11:47 AM	Every point of healing helps - just like every point of AC, saving throw modifier and anything else. I have seen too many PCs die by one point to not feel that a healer's main goal is to heal - not stop time or fight (that is what you have meat shields and fire-balling wizards). I don't know, maybe that is why so many people at conventions are amazed at how well my clerics heal - because too many people don't focus on healing when they play clerics. :dragon: **** A Cleric does not have to equal a healer. He is the Knigh'ts Templar: a holy warrior. If the other party members wants healer: why didn't they make one? Should you heal when you have the time: yes, but it shouldn't be your job unless you want it to be. It is just as hobby otherwise.
kelvinaw273 05-05-07, 12:23 PM	A party needs somebody that can heal. That does not equate to this person being solely a healer; my spirit shaman rarely learns healing spells, she has a wand of CLW for that ...
JulesCARV 05-05-07, 12:46 PM	Well, if your job is to help out the party, I don't think that the destruction and strength domains are so necessary. After all, the druid (with animal companion), fighter, and rogue will all provide a good bit of combat support ability. I'd say worship Deranasius. Knowledge and Magic are decent domains, and you'll be the only party member able to cast Identify (by level 3, granted. But hey, no 100 gp pearls needed!). He also sounds like a laid back god who won't impose a rigid code -- just don't go CE, CG, LE, or LG and you'll be okay. BTW, this DM really likes the Death domain, doesn't he?
PenderGrass 05-05-07, 02:46 PM	A Cleric does not have to equal a healer. You are right. You don't have to be a healer - but most people really appreciate it when the cleric does = healer. :dragon: ****
danielinthewolvesden 05-05-07, 04:12 PM	A Cleric does not have to equal a healer. He is the Knigh'ts Templar: a holy warrior. If the other party members wants healer: why didn't they make one? Should you heal when you have the time: yes, but it shouldn't be your job unless you want it to be. It is just as hobby otherwise. No, the Holy Warriors are the Pious Templar, the Paladan, the Crusader and etc. The Cleric does not need to be a FT healer. But there are 4 iconic roles in the party- Tank, Arcanist, healer/booster and skillmonkey. When you are the only divine caster, it is assumed you will fill the role of healer/booster- unless you tell everyone up front and clearly you are not. Cleric can fill the job of Tank pretty well, esp at higher levels, so you could say "I am playing a cleric, yes, but a Tank-type cleric. Do not rely on me for in-combat healing." And so a party with Tank-cleric, healing-cleric, arcanist and skill-monkey is a pretty good assortment. (Note that the skill monkey is assumed to have full trap detection and removal skills, sometimes folks say "I am going to run a rogue" but then do not make their rogue a trapfinder, and so that is just as disconcerting as a tank-cleric who does not heal) After one gets to the mid levels, wands are only good for after combat healing. Healing during combat adds a HUGE amount of power to a party that faces a lot of damage. The Tank can go all out, knowing he will be rescued, the Wizard can cast less buff spells on himself- alowing him to start blasting right away, and the rogue can afford to tumble in behind the enemy. In our last campaign, I played a HEALER (yes, the rather weak class from MH) for 21 levels. Consistently voted Most Valuable PC in our rather large party. Folks could concentrate on dealing out damage, knowing that the little halfling healer would save their skins. If you do not have an in-combat healer, the party loses a LOT of offensive power. Fighters tend to do things like quaff potions or go Full Defence. Wizards will put up 2-3 buff spells before they start slinging the serious damage spells at the enemy. Rangers use wands of CLW on themselves. Rogues can not afford to tumble in behind and do a TWF Full sneak attack- which can drop many bad guys. Al of which cots the party a LOT in terms of damage dealt. A "CoDzilla" can do a lot of damage- but not as much as three other PC's. And if the CoDzilla is a Healzilla, those three other guys can go to town. Damage is damage- whether you are healing it on your party or doing it to the enemy. And, no matter how buff you make your CoDZilla, a healing cleric can negate more damage than a CoDzilla can do- the healer does not have to hit, or worry about Saves, DR, ER or SR. Harm is fairly dangerous, but you have to hit (usually pretty easy), get past SR and then they get a save- which is commonly made. Harm is not even worth half of a Heal in terms of points.
Evil DM Mk3 05-05-07, 07:35 PM	You are right. You don't have to be a healer - but most people really appreciate it when the cleric does = healer. :dragon: **** Cleric should NEVER = healer. Even the most heal focused clerics are > healer. If you focus just on healing spells 1. The party misses out on its second meleeist 2. The party misses out on some very nice buffs and 3. The party misses out on powerful divinations and other utility spells that are available to the cleric. All of these tend to mean more healing is needed in the end... Clerics heal, but if clerics do nothing but heal they are not contributing well to the party.