DM turns player, seeks advice on dealing with bad player in game [Archive] - Wizards Community

DM turns player, seeks advice on dealing with bad player in game [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Magrus
08-30-07, 10:33 PM Ok folks. Normally I don't end up with this situation as a thing where I am stumped on what to do. Generally, this is due to the fact that I am the DM in the game, and it is my job to be decisive and make a decision. That makes the game move forward, and rolls over whatever problems comes up. However, now I am playing in a game with other folks, and there is this problem player, so maybe I can get some advice from the people that are generally on the players side of the game.

There is this player, that happens to make a character that really is not effective in battle. That's a minor thing, but an irritant. Something that can be dealt with in and of itself. In addition to this, the player flips characters/alignments and deities like pages of a book. Yet, he plays them all the same, which is the mentality of a standard 20th century 12 year old moron with a fascination for ice cream. Bear in mind, this player is not a teenager, and happens to be over 18.

There have been times I have forced myself to reign in my temper as there have been out of character and in character situations where this player randomly insults not only me or my character, but others as well in a very childish way. Not only this, but he is disruptive, and causes our DM to become so frustrated and stressed out our DM loses his cool, which isn't easy to accomplish.

My situations as a DM make me want to boot him from the game, but I recall I am just a player, and it's my game to play, not run. Due to losing 3 players, this player's character is now our only divine caster. I am capable of healing myself, probably better than he can heal me. However, that is me, and only me not the others in the group. I have had the urge, and gained the DM's permission to punish the character IN character for what was said to my character during one session. Due to the loss of other players and all it was never a good time to do so however.

Now, this player has made it clear that he is pressing his characters beliefs on the rest of the party, and is willing to kill us if we get in his way. Essentially, I was given a "It's my way, or I kill you" notice out of character. At this point, I had refrained from attacking him in game to teach him a lesson, and our DM had given him multiple warnings on how to behave to be prevented from being thrown out of our game. If we lose this player, we are down to a 3 person party. While I am fine with that, and our party could manage without him....I am stuck with what I personally want to do, and what to do for maintaining a peaceful party.

I was curious what others may think of what I should do regarding this situation. If it matters, I could crush this players character like a little infant, and disabuse him of his notions of superiority in a most humbling way. I haven't yet, due to the fact of losing players and all of the above mentioned things. Any advice for me? Some outside input may be helpful in getting a new perspective.
Sildatorak
08-30-07, 10:45 PM Essentially, I was given a "It's my way, or I kill you" notice out of character.

[snip]
If it matters, I could crush this players character like a little infant, and disabuse him of his notions of superiority in a most humbling way.

Make him eat his words, if it isn't in character for your character to go along with what his character wants. If you actually have the superior position and your character wouldn't take kindly to him insulting you, play it out. You're better off with a 3 person party than a 3 person and 1 douchebag party.

Keep in mind that it may mean someone has to drop a character to play a healer or you may have to start being much more cautious.

ninja edit: I'm assuming that you've tried to deal with this OoC first. It seems primarily like an OoC problem, so the IC reaction should only come after the OoC solution has failed.
Kouk
08-30-07, 10:50 PM Discuss it out of character with the DM in private and the player in the group or in private.

If it is causing you real stress, then it is better to leave the game if the DM is unwilling to ask him to leave.
danielinthewolvesden
08-31-07, 01:14 AM Sit everyone down and discuss this like adults. Really. It works.

If that does not work, then have your PC's walk away from the jerk's PC and leave him alone. Leave him a note saying "Thanks, but we do not want to adventure with you anymore". Repeat as nessesary.

It's better to have no healer than play with a disruptive jerk. Get a healer as a Cohort.
johnkretzer
08-31-07, 02:11 AM Just ask yourself what you would want one of your players to do in response to a problem like this.
Magrus
08-31-07, 07:45 AM Sit everyone down and discuss this like adults. Really. It works.

If that does not work, then have your PC's walk away from the jerk's PC and leave him alone. Leave him a note saying "Thanks, but we do not want to adventure with you anymore". Repeat as nessesary.

It's better to have no healer than play with a disruptive jerk. Get a healer as a Cohort.

The discussion of how to work out a situation of planning in game is what lead to this. I made it clear I won't tolerate such things in or out of game and gave a warning. The newest issue is this character has his cleric characters goals skewed due to not knowing what his diety wants.

Our group has a catch 22 to deal with that, if they go through with the "good" thing to do we will lose a majority of our characters powers. He has made it clear he will kill anyone who gets in his way of doing this thing. There was no discussion previous to this, just a macho "I'm better than you and I'll stomp you if you get in my way" attitude. Even though we have other options that were provided by us, he's set on this one even though it hurts everyone in the party.

I have considered ending him and hiring a healer. That, or getting the rest of the party to pitch in for costs on making me the designated healer. I could do it, better than he could however it wouldn't be cheap.

As far as what I would want one of my players to do if I were the DM...I would want to have them make it known to me they had a problem with the player before doing anything. I did that weeks ago. It's pretty much a mutual thing in the group, to the point even the 15 year old in the group has told him to shut up and grow up. The acknowledgment on the DM's part that this is a problem player for me and the others is there.

In the situation I were running a game where one of my players went after another for the things which were said and have been done, I don't think I would do much beyond calming down the problem player after the incident played out and telling him to leave. However, I'm a bit more aggressive and not so inclined to pitying folks. I suppose I'll mention it bluntly to the DM my feelings and reasons again. I can get a 7th level cohort next level if he lets me take Leadership.

Thanks folks.
White_Whale
08-31-07, 08:31 AM What would your PCs do? It seems unlikely to me that, if they are much more powerful than his character, they would follow his character just because he puts up this "my way or no way"-attitude.
Shadowhowler
08-31-07, 09:31 AM Well...

You said your DM has given him repeated warnings about being an a$$hat... and that your DM gave you permision to acti IN CHARACTER on his character... and he has threatned you lives and contenues to endanger you...

Sounds like a no brainer to me. Deal with his character... either beat him severly and kick him out of the party... tell him 'leave and never return' and then ask said jeakoff player to do likewise... or handle it more peaceably... but in the end... the desired result is the same.

He leaves... both in and out of game.

Can I assume you have had conversations with him about what a jearkoff he is being, both in and out of character? If not... do that first... and if that does not work, follow the above.

:)
Zealot_Reborn
08-31-07, 10:26 AM what are your current capabilities in terms of handing him his rear end on a silver platter? You say you have the capability to heal yourself, which indicates to me you may be a paladin with some lay on hands action going. If that's the case, do a detect evil on the problem character, and ask the DM if you see an aura. what this does it put the ball in the dm's hands. If you're a paladin and the dm calls him evil, as the DM has final say in ALL matters involving such things, and has the authority to push people's alignments around, smite your way to glory. Besides, the 'follow me or i'll kill you' mentality is very very evil in every sense of the word.

if the dm doesn't say he's evil, then you've got a bit of a quandry... either the dm isn't picking up the hint that this is your way of attempting to kill the problem character, or the dm isn't willing to have you kill the character. In which case, you take the other players, stand in a united front against this idiot player, and tell him that he isn't going to boss the group around, so he'd better be ready to take all three of you on.

As for healing, a wand of cure light wounds or a cohort healbot is all you need for a 3 person party.
Ecalsneerg
08-31-07, 12:10 PM What would you rather have:

4 players, one of whom is a douchebag?

3 players?
darkneolink
08-31-07, 12:36 PM the best thing to do is talk with your DM and with him... don't be agressive with it. Explain to him that he is acting like he is not part of a team and that if his character doesn't change the party will leave him in the middle of the night. If his next character acts the same way repeat as necessary. Remember to make it clear that you are not angry at the other player (I supose he is a friend) but with that particular action.

If the non-violent way of solving things doesn't work you can

*hit him with a chair
*give him an ultimatum
*hit him with a folding chair
*hit him out of the game
*hit his head with a folding chair
or
*hit him with a folding chair till he is a bloody pulp

Remember there isn't a problem that can't be stoped with enough violence
Majick
08-31-07, 12:58 PM Does he have Bi-Polar or something?
Magrus
08-31-07, 01:36 PM what are your current capabilities in terms of handing him his rear end on a silver platter?

We're in a gestalt game, I'm an artificer/wizard, 8th level. I can buff myself within a few rounds to be nigh invincible for the next few minutes or so and then unleash hell.

As it stands, I discussed with the DM. The idiot player went and risked his sanity for some game secrets with an artifact last game. Apparently, the DM rolled over the past two days, and the character is now permanently insane and may well end up being a ghost for a day and a year. So, he told me to hold off and see what happens due to that, then be brutally honest with the player. Apparently, I wasn't clear enough in my warning. He gave me permission to gut the character if that fails. Yay.
Zealot_Reborn
08-31-07, 02:20 PM risking your character on dice rolls is fun :D I remember rolling a dm'ing tool known as the 'Dice of the Traveller' for an Eberron campaign i'm in. Very humorous results including an aberrant dragonmark :P

anywhoo, 8th level artificer/wizard in a gestalt game? you got this. Here's what you need to do: wait until he turns into a ghost, cast command undead, and have the command be "leave and never return." boom, problem solved.

Failing that, hold person and dominate while he's just insane. I will assume insanity may give him a penalty to wisdom, or better yet, he's an idiot and made an anti-wizard grappler with crappy will saves. in which case, humiliate him, then send him away permanently.
mycroftb
08-31-07, 04:19 PM DM turns player? When I first read that, I thought, well, roll a d20 and add your charisma modifier, then consult this table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead) to determine the maximum hit dice of a player you can turn, then roll 2d6 plus..

All joking aside, it sounds like everybody agrees that they don't like the player. So why go through the trouble of playing with him for yet another session? Lend your DM a spine and encourage him to notify the player that it's just not working out, and not to show up anymore.

So far, all I've gotten is that he doesn't play his character very well. Is he an OK guy apart from that? Do you think you might get along with him outside the game if he didn't play his character so badly?

If you guys treat him badly, he'll have a legitimate beef with you. You can act better than that, nip it before it gets any farther. He'll still stomp off fuming, but he might have a better chance of realizing it's his own fault for being a dick.

Attacking his character doesn't sound like it'd work, as he'd probably just roll up another one right there and you'd be back at square 1.

If the DM won't deal with the problem the right way.. well, the chair idea sounds good to me. :D
Magrus
09-01-07, 05:02 PM Well, it's all settled now. The DM wasn't aware of what was said to the rest of the party, so when I informed him he told me to hold off but sympathized with me. Some things went down where the player was told to reroll a new, standard character as his punishment. The player didn't do as told, and he was warned of our rules of what happens if you keep losing characters a month ago, so this wasn't something randomly thrown his way. The DM lost it and booted him from the game. I don't have to worry anymore, AND he's replaced by a new player starting next week. Wonderful solution.
ForestFawn
09-11-07, 05:02 PM Lesson learned is this :

Cure Wands > Bad players.
MrCustomer
09-11-07, 06:22 PM I would casually in character one fine morning wake up and start my day with a prayer to some Diety that he doesn't worship. "Oh Heironeous, please bless this, my sword, may it smite your enemies"

He responds with whatever he says about Obad-Hai

I would retort "Why, what if others stand against your teachings?

He retorts "Why I will kill them in the name of Obad-Hai"

I would then Smite him with my Sword shouting "I smite you, Enemy of Heironeous, Thou shalt have no other God before thee"

Then say out of character "Well that settles that, any other nazi's in the room? Hey we have no Healer and I wouldn't mind playing a Cleric of Heironeous...."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Magrus 08-30-07, 10:33 PM	Ok folks. Normally I don't end up with this situation as a thing where I am stumped on what to do. Generally, this is due to the fact that I am the DM in the game, and it is my job to be decisive and make a decision. That makes the game move forward, and rolls over whatever problems comes up. However, now I am playing in a game with other folks, and there is this problem player, so maybe I can get some advice from the people that are generally on the players side of the game. There is this player, that happens to make a character that really is not effective in battle. That's a minor thing, but an irritant. Something that can be dealt with in and of itself. In addition to this, the player flips characters/alignments and deities like pages of a book. Yet, he plays them all the same, which is the mentality of a standard 20th century 12 year old moron with a fascination for ice cream. Bear in mind, this player is not a teenager, and happens to be over 18. There have been times I have forced myself to reign in my temper as there have been out of character and in character situations where this player randomly insults not only me or my character, but others as well in a very childish way. Not only this, but he is disruptive, and causes our DM to become so frustrated and stressed out our DM loses his cool, which isn't easy to accomplish. My situations as a DM make me want to boot him from the game, but I recall I am just a player, and it's my game to play, not run. Due to losing 3 players, this player's character is now our only divine caster. I am capable of healing myself, probably better than he can heal me. However, that is me, and only me not the others in the group. I have had the urge, and gained the DM's permission to punish the character IN character for what was said to my character during one session. Due to the loss of other players and all it was never a good time to do so however. Now, this player has made it clear that he is pressing his characters beliefs on the rest of the party, and is willing to kill us if we get in his way. Essentially, I was given a "It's my way, or I kill you" notice out of character. At this point, I had refrained from attacking him in game to teach him a lesson, and our DM had given him multiple warnings on how to behave to be prevented from being thrown out of our game. If we lose this player, we are down to a 3 person party. While I am fine with that, and our party could manage without him....I am stuck with what I personally want to do, and what to do for maintaining a peaceful party. I was curious what others may think of what I should do regarding this situation. If it matters, I could crush this players character like a little infant, and disabuse him of his notions of superiority in a most humbling way. I haven't yet, due to the fact of losing players and all of the above mentioned things. Any advice for me? Some outside input may be helpful in getting a new perspective.
Sildatorak 08-30-07, 10:45 PM	Essentially, I was given a "It's my way, or I kill you" notice out of character. [snip] If it matters, I could crush this players character like a little infant, and disabuse him of his notions of superiority in a most humbling way. Make him eat his words, if it isn't in character for your character to go along with what his character wants. If you actually have the superior position and your character wouldn't take kindly to him insulting you, play it out. You're better off with a 3 person party than a 3 person and 1 douchebag party. Keep in mind that it may mean someone has to drop a character to play a healer or you may have to start being much more cautious. ninja edit: I'm assuming that you've tried to deal with this OoC first. It seems primarily like an OoC problem, so the IC reaction should only come after the OoC solution has failed.
Kouk 08-30-07, 10:50 PM	Discuss it out of character with the DM in private and the player in the group or in private. If it is causing you real stress, then it is better to leave the game if the DM is unwilling to ask him to leave.
danielinthewolvesden 08-31-07, 01:14 AM	Sit everyone down and discuss this like adults. Really. It works. If that does not work, then have your PC's walk away from the jerk's PC and leave him alone. Leave him a note saying "Thanks, but we do not want to adventure with you anymore". Repeat as nessesary. It's better to have no healer than play with a disruptive jerk. Get a healer as a Cohort.
johnkretzer 08-31-07, 02:11 AM	Just ask yourself what you would want one of your players to do in response to a problem like this.
Magrus 08-31-07, 07:45 AM	Sit everyone down and discuss this like adults. Really. It works. If that does not work, then have your PC's walk away from the jerk's PC and leave him alone. Leave him a note saying "Thanks, but we do not want to adventure with you anymore". Repeat as nessesary. It's better to have no healer than play with a disruptive jerk. Get a healer as a Cohort. The discussion of how to work out a situation of planning in game is what lead to this. I made it clear I won't tolerate such things in or out of game and gave a warning. The newest issue is this character has his cleric characters goals skewed due to not knowing what his diety wants. Our group has a catch 22 to deal with that, if they go through with the "good" thing to do we will lose a majority of our characters powers. He has made it clear he will kill anyone who gets in his way of doing this thing. There was no discussion previous to this, just a macho "I'm better than you and I'll stomp you if you get in my way" attitude. Even though we have other options that were provided by us, he's set on this one even though it hurts everyone in the party. I have considered ending him and hiring a healer. That, or getting the rest of the party to pitch in for costs on making me the designated healer. I could do it, better than he could however it wouldn't be cheap. As far as what I would want one of my players to do if I were the DM...I would want to have them make it known to me they had a problem with the player before doing anything. I did that weeks ago. It's pretty much a mutual thing in the group, to the point even the 15 year old in the group has told him to shut up and grow up. The acknowledgment on the DM's part that this is a problem player for me and the others is there. In the situation I were running a game where one of my players went after another for the things which were said and have been done, I don't think I would do much beyond calming down the problem player after the incident played out and telling him to leave. However, I'm a bit more aggressive and not so inclined to pitying folks. I suppose I'll mention it bluntly to the DM my feelings and reasons again. I can get a 7th level cohort next level if he lets me take Leadership. Thanks folks.
White_Whale 08-31-07, 08:31 AM	What would your PCs do? It seems unlikely to me that, if they are much more powerful than his character, they would follow his character just because he puts up this "my way or no way"-attitude.
Shadowhowler 08-31-07, 09:31 AM	Well... You said your DM has given him repeated warnings about being an a$$hat... and that your DM gave you permision to acti IN CHARACTER on his character... and he has threatned you lives and contenues to endanger you... Sounds like a no brainer to me. Deal with his character... either beat him severly and kick him out of the party... tell him 'leave and never return' and then ask said jeakoff player to do likewise... or handle it more peaceably... but in the end... the desired result is the same. He leaves... both in and out of game. Can I assume you have had conversations with him about what a jearkoff he is being, both in and out of character? If not... do that first... and if that does not work, follow the above. :)
Zealot_Reborn 08-31-07, 10:26 AM	what are your current capabilities in terms of handing him his rear end on a silver platter? You say you have the capability to heal yourself, which indicates to me you may be a paladin with some lay on hands action going. If that's the case, do a detect evil on the problem character, and ask the DM if you see an aura. what this does it put the ball in the dm's hands. If you're a paladin and the dm calls him evil, as the DM has final say in ALL matters involving such things, and has the authority to push people's alignments around, smite your way to glory. Besides, the 'follow me or i'll kill you' mentality is very very evil in every sense of the word. if the dm doesn't say he's evil, then you've got a bit of a quandry... either the dm isn't picking up the hint that this is your way of attempting to kill the problem character, or the dm isn't willing to have you kill the character. In which case, you take the other players, stand in a united front against this idiot player, and tell him that he isn't going to boss the group around, so he'd better be ready to take all three of you on. As for healing, a wand of cure light wounds or a cohort healbot is all you need for a 3 person party.
Ecalsneerg 08-31-07, 12:10 PM	What would you rather have: 4 players, one of whom is a douchebag? 3 players?
darkneolink 08-31-07, 12:36 PM	the best thing to do is talk with your DM and with him... don't be agressive with it. Explain to him that he is acting like he is not part of a team and that if his character doesn't change the party will leave him in the middle of the night. If his next character acts the same way repeat as necessary. Remember to make it clear that you are not angry at the other player (I supose he is a friend) but with that particular action. If the non-violent way of solving things doesn't work you can hit him with a chair give him an ultimatum hit him with a folding chair hit him out of the game hit his head with a folding chair or hit him with a folding chair till he is a bloody pulp Remember there isn't a problem that can't be stoped with enough violence
Majick 08-31-07, 12:58 PM	Does he have Bi-Polar or something?
Magrus 08-31-07, 01:36 PM	what are your current capabilities in terms of handing him his rear end on a silver platter? We're in a gestalt game, I'm an artificer/wizard, 8th level. I can buff myself within a few rounds to be nigh invincible for the next few minutes or so and then unleash hell. As it stands, I discussed with the DM. The idiot player went and risked his sanity for some game secrets with an artifact last game. Apparently, the DM rolled over the past two days, and the character is now permanently insane and may well end up being a ghost for a day and a year. So, he told me to hold off and see what happens due to that, then be brutally honest with the player. Apparently, I wasn't clear enough in my warning. He gave me permission to gut the character if that fails. Yay.
Zealot_Reborn 08-31-07, 02:20 PM	risking your character on dice rolls is fun :D I remember rolling a dm'ing tool known as the 'Dice of the Traveller' for an Eberron campaign i'm in. Very humorous results including an aberrant dragonmark :P anywhoo, 8th level artificer/wizard in a gestalt game? you got this. Here's what you need to do: wait until he turns into a ghost, cast command undead, and have the command be "leave and never return." boom, problem solved. Failing that, hold person and dominate while he's just insane. I will assume insanity may give him a penalty to wisdom, or better yet, he's an idiot and made an anti-wizard grappler with crappy will saves. in which case, humiliate him, then send him away permanently.
mycroftb 08-31-07, 04:19 PM	DM turns player? When I first read that, I thought, well, roll a d20 and add your charisma modifier, then consult this table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead) to determine the maximum hit dice of a player you can turn, then roll 2d6 plus.. All joking aside, it sounds like everybody agrees that they don't like the player. So why go through the trouble of playing with him for yet another session? Lend your DM a spine and encourage him to notify the player that it's just not working out, and not to show up anymore. So far, all I've gotten is that he doesn't play his character very well. Is he an OK guy apart from that? Do you think you might get along with him outside the game if he didn't play his character so badly? If you guys treat him badly, he'll have a legitimate beef with you. You can act better than that, nip it before it gets any farther. He'll still stomp off fuming, but he might have a better chance of realizing it's his own fault for being a dick. Attacking his character doesn't sound like it'd work, as he'd probably just roll up another one right there and you'd be back at square 1. If the DM won't deal with the problem the right way.. well, the chair idea sounds good to me. :D
Magrus 09-01-07, 05:02 PM	Well, it's all settled now. The DM wasn't aware of what was said to the rest of the party, so when I informed him he told me to hold off but sympathized with me. Some things went down where the player was told to reroll a new, standard character as his punishment. The player didn't do as told, and he was warned of our rules of what happens if you keep losing characters a month ago, so this wasn't something randomly thrown his way. The DM lost it and booted him from the game. I don't have to worry anymore, AND he's replaced by a new player starting next week. Wonderful solution.
ForestFawn 09-11-07, 05:02 PM	Lesson learned is this : Cure Wands > Bad players.
MrCustomer 09-11-07, 06:22 PM	I would casually in character one fine morning wake up and start my day with a prayer to some Diety that he doesn't worship. "Oh Heironeous, please bless this, my sword, may it smite your enemies" He responds with whatever he says about Obad-Hai I would retort "Why, what if others stand against your teachings? He retorts "Why I will kill them in the name of Obad-Hai" I would then Smite him with my Sword shouting "I smite you, Enemy of Heironeous, Thou shalt have no other God before thee" Then say out of character "Well that settles that, any other nazi's in the room? Hey we have no Healer and I wouldn't mind playing a Cleric of Heironeous...."