Post/Author/DateTime	Post
starfalconkd 04-25-07, 08:29 AM	A long time friend of mine (the DM) and I have been playing a solo game for quite some time. We moved the game into 3.5 rules and continued the previously retired game with an epic quest. I had a party of NPC's with me and we got massacred (about half the party killed permanently) by a single bad guy at the quests end. I was annoyed by the ass kicking and I griped, but it happens. Now my DM admits he was cutting XP during the quest by a quarter. I feel like he was cheating because he did not discuss this rules adjustment with me, he did it because he felt like we would getting too much XP for killing the high CR monsters we met. I've been playing role playing games for a long time and have never come against this situation. DM's fudging dice rolls is one thing (I've done it), but this is just out and out cheating. Has anyone else encountered a similar situation?
daggeroflath 04-25-07, 08:43 AM	Technically it's not cheating, since this is an option presented in the DMG. He really should have told you though that he was using an optional rule. Our DM used to have NPCs tag along with the group, who wouldn't help during combat, just so that they could draw off a share of the XP and slow our advancement. This is against the rules for so many reasons. When this came up in conversation I basically told him that I don't care if he wants us to have less XP but I wish he could do it by more honest means.
Aminvelos 04-25-07, 05:26 PM	The dm guide is just that a guide. The dm is god and can do whatever he wants, there is no cheating. While there is bad dming this is not one of those cases. If you feel that the dm should share with you any changes before the campaign or during the campaign it's your job to ask. Dragon Shaman: I take another swing. (Rolls) You miss (Rolls) Alexia rolls backwards into the bushes, what do you do? Dragon Shaman: I wait for her to come out. Okay, are you going to wait at least 30 seconds? Dragon Shaman: Yes. (Rolls a d20 for the dragon shaman for a hunch check) You feel a peircing pain in your right side. Your dealt 7 damage. Dragon Shaman: What? Don't I get a listen check everytime she tries to move silently!!!!! DM: No Dragon Shaman: But I get one everytime she rolls for move silently! DM: No, you don't. Later on after the battle, the dragon shaman finds out Alexia wears boots of silence. ---------------------------- You train under master Zizah. and gain so so experience. Dragon Shaman: But that's not CR appropriate! DM: You learned more than normally would since he's a master. Dragon Shaman: Cool! -------------------------------- You gain so so experience Dragon Shaman: But that's not CR appropriate! DM: You've gain half the experience since you've been slaughtering goblins for years now, it's not like your learning a whole lot. Dragon Shaman: That's not fair! DM: It doesn't have to be fair, just as fair as the real world.
DarkNick 04-25-07, 06:25 PM	The DM was not cheating (I'm not sure if a DM can cheat), it is not like it is you against him. If that was the case then you would lose. For pace reasons he can chop exp as he like. Heck, in my games half the time I just make up the exp (usually with a good educated guess or for pace reasons). Are you really more ****** about the arse kicking or the exp? You can't win them all.
PenderGrass 04-25-07, 06:54 PM	Although, technically, there was nothing "wrong" about what your DM did - it seems odd to me that he would not have explained to you what is obviously a house rule. The again, you never really took that much note about it - otherwise you would have made an issue about the lack of XP - so, it seems that it really was a non-issue. Until now. Question really is - why did he tell you after the fact? :dragon: ****
celtredleg 04-25-07, 11:08 PM	If you played in earlier editions then 3.5 feels way to fast leveling up. So cuing XP is a good way to bring back that feel. Not telling you is uncool however.
pmurray@bigpond.com 04-26-07, 12:47 AM	For pace reasons he can chop exp as he like. Heck, in my games half the time I just make up the exp (usually with a good educated guess or for pace reasons). Last session, our DM was "fuggedaboutit - everyone gets enough to make 3rd level". Except me :D . Our DM is permitting us to exchange 25% XP for a bonus feat (every second level) and I am a powergamer.
starfalconkd 04-26-07, 04:43 PM	Are you really more ****** about the arse kicking or the exp? You can't win them all. I've gotten stomped before, it sucks but it happens. This was several months later when he admitted the xp thing. I'm well over my mildly damaged pride, thanks. The again, you never really took that much note about it Actually I was very surprised about the xp after the fact. When I questioned him about it, he said he would double check the numbers. He said it was right, and I believed him. I generally trust the DM. I like to think I'm not a whiny player. I was just curious if people had encountered similar situations and how they handled them. Oh and I don't buy this DM is god stuff. When I DM I discuss any and all optional rules with my players. That's my style.
DarkNick 04-26-07, 04:57 PM	I can see how you probably feel a bit betrayed. You trust your DM to be honest an open but it turned out he was hiding something that common courtesy suggests he should have told you at the time (I think his reason was pretty sound though). Considering you got wasted makes this a real kisser - like insult to injury. I don't know all the context but from what I gather he is a good friend - you generally get along. You trust him as a DM (or did anyway). So I would consider this a blip. Ask him if next time he could let you know he was changing something like exp, as long as you can see the reason for it and it sounds fair.
wonlee76 04-26-07, 05:13 PM	I'm not sure if this is cheating only to the extent that there are some further details you can add in. How many NPCs were tagging along and were they participating in combat? I presume yes since you mentioned 1/2 of them died in this fight. Presuming its you + 3 NPCs, then your DM is right, you get 1/4 of the xp for that bad guy you eventually defeated even if your NPC buddies died during the fight. Now on the other hand, if he divided up the xp by 4 (1 PC + 3 active NPCs/Allies) and then knocked that down to 25% of that figure (1/16 total if I got my math right) then that just is wrong and I would gripe as well.
PenderGrass 04-26-07, 08:26 PM	Now on the other hand, if he divided up the xp by 4 (1 PC + 3 active NPCs/Allies) and then knocked that down to 25% of that figure (1/16 total if I got my math right) then that just is wrong and I would gripe as well. This was what I interpreted the math to have been. 25% off the standard XP award, just because. Sorry, but every DM I have gamed with (including myself), has made sure anything of this nature is known ahead of time (or allowed for options to work-around or grandfather choices). :dragon: ****
Mock26 04-26-07, 08:49 PM	As others pointed out, it is not cheating. And, as others also pointed out, the DM should have told you he was cutting back on the amount of XP being awarded. Probably. Just because you don't think he had a valid reason for doing what he did doesn't mean that it wasn't a valid reason for the DM. I routinely give out less XP than the rules suggest. However, I don't do it out of malice or spite or to be mean or because I'm some sort of XP miser. I do it because I have a set "schedule" on how many adventures it should take for the group to go up a level. Nearly all of the adventures for my campaign have already been chosen by me. Some of them haven't been written yet, but I have a basic plot and rough map idea for these ones. And, I have a whole bunch of non-campaign related adventures just in case the group wants something different. But, the campaign-related adventures all serve a purpose in my campaign, and some of them just happen to be several or more adventures set for a tight level range of the group. So, XP awards get cut back so that the group won't find the adventures too easy, nor too difficult. Yes, I could change the CR/EL of the adventure, but I find that this is easier. And, most of my group doesn't care. Yes, everyone wants to level up, but they are more concerned with enjoying adventures than they are with leveling up (because there is no real link between amount of fun and level of your character). If your DM had a valid reason, then cut him some slack.
Potato Weasel 04-27-07, 11:15 AM	Also, you've talked about exp, but not treasure, were you still getting treasure for those encounters? If so, you'd have four times normal for your level...
Phrennzy 04-27-07, 12:25 PM	Did you have fun up until he told you about the XP knock? Then don't sweat it. Ask him to inform you of rules changes (or which 'guidelines' he going to use) beforehand next time.
starfire311 04-27-07, 01:00 PM	A long time friend of mine (the DM) and I have been playing a solo game for quite some time. We moved the game into 3.5 rules and continued the previously retired game with an epic quest. I had a party of NPC's with me and we got massacred (about half the party killed permanently) by a single bad guy at the quests end. I was annoyed by the ass kicking and I griped, but it happens. Now my DM admits he was cutting XP during the quest by a quarter. I feel like he was cheating because he did not discuss this rules adjustment with me, he did it because he felt like we would getting too much XP for killing the high CR monsters we met. I've been playing role playing games for a long time and have never come against this situation. DM's fudging dice rolls is one thing (I've done it), but this is just out and out cheating. Has anyone else encountered a similar situation? wait a sec, you considor reduced xp, which is a legitimate house rule, to be out and out cheating, but you considor fudging die rolls, which is in fact out and out cheating, to not be cheating.
perdera 04-27-07, 01:28 PM	I don't understand how having modified xp rewards could possibly affect your playing of the game. It's an abstract. It builds up, you level, you keep adventuring. It's not like he changed an actual rule or mechanic that has a tangible impact on how you play. Now, if you're the sort that derives D&D enjoyment from levelling quickly, then I understand how your DM doing this has affected your enjoyment in a negative manner, and you both should have agreed to that in advance. On the other hand, it's his job to make sure things are fun. If he's running through a pre-created epic adventure, and it expects you to be level 18 by adventures end, and his xp cutting left you at 14, then, yeah, he screwed up by not maintaining that balance. But cutting xp by itself? Sure, no problem, as long as everyone is having fun.
GDwarf 04-28-07, 05:41 PM	He wasn't cheating, and if you failed to notice I fail to see how this would be an issue. Unless he gave you 1/4 XP, but made the encounters to match your level should you have gotten full XP (Which you certainly would've noticed, when you're level 3 party came up against level 5 enemies routinely...) then there's nothing at all wrong. All it means is that you leveled slower.