Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Siduakal 04-26-05, 12:49 AM	If you aren't enjoying your character, they get offended.. If you try to tell them that it's not their fault, that you simply do not like the character that much.. They get defensive (And more offended) Anyone know how to deal with this? =/ I like my DM, and my group. But I'm not sure how to tell my DM ANYTHING negative without angering her.
Callista 04-26-05, 12:58 AM	Re. Getting a new character: Don't say "I don't like my old character"--rather, say "I'd really like to play this new character". And come up with a plausible reason for the old one to retire. If your DM has built some part of the plot around your character, she may be getting defensive because she doesn't want you to unwittingly ruin your story. You might ask her this up front--"Do you need my character there for the story to work?" And if she says yes, ask her if a relative or friend of your old character might work out just as well... or if the old character could become an NPC for a while, with you playing a new character and the old one dropping out once the plot no longer needs him/her. Re. Your DM: Is she new at DMing? It seems like she's taking things quite personally; she's probably very anxious to make her game fun for everyone, and she's afraid of your criticism because she hates the thought of failing as a DM. So yeah, she's a bit sensitive... you'll have to work with it, I guess. You're better off with a DM who takes criticism too hard than one who won't listen to you at all, though. The way you say things will make the difference. "Suggestions for what I'd like to see in the game" is better than "Things you ought to be doing". You're not trying to tear into the way she's DMing, so don't sound even the least bit like it. If you're not having fun, then try to figure out what the cause of it is before you go to her... then say something like, "I'd really like it if..." or "How about this idea..." Stuff like that. You want to be sure not to give her verbal cues that you're about to attack her, so she doesn't go on the defensive. Yeah, I know... it'll seem like walking on eggs for a while. But, if I'm right in thinking she's a newbie, then she'll probably gain confidence as she learns how to do things; and with that will come the ability to take criticism. Don't put her down; wait and see; and the problem may just solve itself over time.
weasel fierce 04-26-05, 04:09 AM	Well, it could be two things. A: he or she may feel that the criticism is unreasonable, short sighted or just presented wrong. Consider how you would react if you were in the same spot. Would you feel defensive or cautious ? If so, then its a good bet, your DM is. B: He or she is taking roleplaying way too seriously, and needs to relax and ease up. Its a makebelieve game.
Ut-Napishtim 04-26-05, 04:15 AM	Meh, I've failed as a DM dozens of times - that's how you learn. I don't see much you can do. Normally for IG problems I'd say 'talk it over with the DM.' In your case, however, talking things over with the DM is the problem. I guess all you can really do is try again being as diplomatic as possible if this is really important to you, and ready yourself for a negative response. Either that, or ignore it, drive on, and wait a few years for your DM to mature and grow up.
Ayrynthyn 04-26-05, 11:46 AM	Yeah, one of the players brougth this up over the past week, and we implemented it in the past weekends session. I couldn't say no to his enthusiasim. "Dude... i wrote up this Dwarven fighter thief. He's sportin the 8 cha, and low int. I'm thinkin totally cliche with this guy. The back story is <edited for brevity>which fits with your<more editing> and your <more editing> and the <last edit> . Any chance that Gro Mar can wander off to town, do some crafting or something, and you let me run this guy for a few sessions? See how it goes? He's 4th level (one level lower than party average), and we can roll stats or HP or whatever..." All this in like the same breath. Gro Mar is kind of the leader of the Party (or atleast the first one to jump on most of my hooks), so i was a bit concerned, i ran it by the rest of the Group, and they didn't have any beef with it. (i didnt want to burn 6hrs of a 8hr session with a "Meet the new guy" scenario). All in all it worked out well. Stoke the DM up with how this new character can fit into what you've seen and know so far. Throw a dozen hooks at her...make it hard to say no
Judging Eagle 04-26-05, 11:53 AM	In my current campaign, there was a player that couldn't keep a character concept straight. He went from a human wizard, to elf cleric, to human cleric; his old wizard is played by a new member of the group and his clerics were meant to replace a dwarven cleric who really would have nothing to do with a bunch of humans and elves who were running a keep that was goblined (yes, not manned, goblined) by a band that the PCs took charge of (plus the ogre that 'guards' (ie. sleeps in the shade of) the gate). His current cleric (of Sun-Tzu; diety of tactics and strategy) makes more sense to work with the group than an elven cleric of correlon lorethion. Myself, as a DM, this was really my first campaign that I was running, I knew that this guy was having trouble finding a character that he could enjoy the concept of so I was very leniant. At the same time the PCs weren't actually leveling for the first 13 4-8 hour sessions (despite combat and RPing). Mostly so that they'd get a better feel for each other and the game, also b/c I wanted to get a better feel for what they could deal with (they were able to take on cr 3 ECLs with only 3 of the total 8 party members, and when they did face things out in the open they simply slaughtered them), at the same time they were completely 'defeating' all of the goblins and the guard ogre simply by showing that they had killed the old leader (and the figher was now the 'new' one; since she brandished the old leader's morningstar). They eventually leveled, fortunately, there are about... 10 of them PCs: -fighter (warhammer weilding, combat-expertising tank/smiter) -ranger (ranged style, helps to add to damage when everyone is in melee) -cleric of sun-tzu (ranged, since they don't really need an other tank, but he can tank pretty good) -2 wizards (one preffy necromantic, used to play 2ed with me, the other more showy/blasty; they know to buff the party out and then blast, or blast if the blasting's good and needed) -rogue (sneaker, flanker, ranged) -bard/marshall (buffer, the formian considers him as a little sister to protect) cohorts/bodyguards: -fighter/favoured soul goblin leitenant (second in command at the keep, determined to stay high on the chain of command -(will be a monk) formian warrior (completely lost, was sent to the material plane by a spell that an invading wizard cast while his army of undead/constructs attacked their hive; she sees the elf bard as little sister, despite that he is a male (formians are almost all sterile females, queens and breeding males are the exceptions) -fighter orcish 'bodyguard' (the only remaining orc from a group of slavers that the PCs fought and whose kobold slaves they now lead to a mine. The necromantic wizard charmed to guard him, he sticks around since... well the PCs single handely killed his previous employers and are willing to keep him in upkeep as long as he helps them kill stuff (plus they'll help keep him alive thanks to the cleric and the bard) I'm going to be adding a human barbarian and a human cavleir next session I think.... Heh, perfect, the barb will be from the giant-infested lands and the cavaleir will be someone sent to 'edjumacate' them stoopid barbies, so he's sort of there to guide/guard/train the barbarian in feats of arms. I guess. I should prolly make the cavalier a hobgoblin or bugbear too... would make a lot of sense for the Bubear empire to send in agents to train people in the ravaged-lands to fight giants and keep the giants from being too organized. I 'should' make that PC a Noble bugbear... but all those spell-like abilities... O_O~~ [gotta love how at the last minute you get ideas as to HOW to make soemthing make sense; noble bugbears could just be bugbears that the bugbear emporer empowers via his conquering halbeard (one of a few relicuary weapons; one or two for each alignment)]. Anyway, I ramble too much. Your best bet, make cue cards, keep info for NPCs and monsters close at hand and draw a rough idea for your maps; as things happen flesh them more out. Talk about and write down what happens and soon you'll start getting new ideas as to what will happen next.
LordofIllusions 04-26-05, 12:26 PM	You make your character, not the DM. So if you don't like the character you made, it is your fault. Live with it. :devil: ~~~
AmanitaEata 04-26-05, 01:00 PM	I'm not sure how to tell my DM ANYTHING negative without angering her. Wait about a week, then repeat your concerns. I bet she'll be more receptive in a few days.
Gryllmyre 04-26-05, 02:58 PM	Sounds like the DM is investing too heavily into having the perfect gaming experience. I can't say I know how to get someone like that to loosen up, except having a greater appreciation for being able to play the game at all. But that usually has to happen on their own time and terms.
Siduakal 04-26-05, 11:32 PM	You make your character, not the DM. So if you don't like the character you made, it is your fault. Live with it. :devil: ~~~ Actually, I did like him. But then I had to move my charisma/wisdom stats, per DMs choice. And I was told I couldn't play a social Rogue (We did the socials to statup) because he wasn't nice enough. (He was CE.. I was playing him as rather beligerent, but none the less.. when someone wants, they can turn on the charm.) That is why I decided I hated him. It flushed his whole concept down the drain. I was going to have him start off as well.. a jackass. And the party be completely baffled by the fact that when he wants something, he changes to this "Nice" guy and ends up getting it. To understand my frustrations, you have to realize.. the last 3 Campaigns of our group, with 2 Different DMs total.. I've had to play a combat monkey because no one else wanted to fill the beefcake shoes. I min/max my characters, yes.. So I am more "apt" to it. But I also work longer on my characters background, personality, concept, etc.. Than probably 2 of our members combined.. and more than everyone does individually.. So having it shot down, sucks. And when I try to tell the DM that, she pretty much laughed at me and said it was my fault for playing him that way. Okay, that's fine.. I want to change. And since I said that, she's been pretty much unreceptive. Doesn't really answer many of my questions, that kind of stuff.. And in a homebrew world, that sucks. And now I am sure if I complain about that, she'll get offended even more.
Siduakal 04-26-05, 11:36 PM	Sounds like the DM is investing too heavily into having the perfect gaming experience. I can't say I know how to get someone like that to loosen up, except having a greater appreciation for being able to play the game at all. But that usually has to happen on their own time and terms. No, trust me. They know I'm happy. ANd this is actually the 2nd campaign in the world that I'm having the problem with. (We have 2 going, one with a 4 man party, one with a 2 man.. This is in the two man which is really just a pickup thing because we hang out a lot, we were doing it with our chars from the 4 man, but we decided we wanted to do more than just RP and develop, and we didn't want to surpass the group with oodles of XP) They also know I'm appreciative of getting to play (The other people all have other groups they play in, one half does at college.. the other half does in their group they've been in for years) I am also one of the better RPers.. and that's why I -can't- play a character if I've lost interest in them, I can't even get in character. And I can't force interest.
Lord Gwydion 04-27-05, 02:05 AM	Actually, I did like him. But then I had to move my charisma/wisdom stats, per DMs choice. You know, the DM gets a lot of power to decide how things are in their game world. The Players are pretty much stuck with their PCs. I actually wouldn't play with a DM that told me to arbitrarily change my character from the way I'd made it just because she didn't like it. If a change became necessary because of an optional rule, feat, PrC, etc. becoming unbalancing, I can understand. But a DM fiat to switch Wis and Cha because of the character's alignment? I'd tell her that either I'm going to keep playing MY character the way I made it, roll up a brand new character that we both can agree on, or I'm not playing. Now this sounds kinda harsh, but there's a reason that the PHB allows players to place the stats of their character the way they want. If a DM wants to use organic stat rolling, or make premade characters, I don't have a problem with that. If a DM wants to disallow certain character types due to the campaign (no need for socialite characters in a dungeon crawl campaign) that's fine, but they need to tell the players that BEFORE they make their characters, or at least before they finish them. If they need to retroactively ban something for balance reasons, I can understand. Telling me that my character is wrong and forcing me to change it to fit the DM's idea after it's already been agreed to is wrong. Especially if she won't allow me to replace the character with something else. Remember, Siduakal, that you have the right to refuse to play a character if you don't want to. If she wants to change your character arbitrarily, hand her the character sheet and tell her it's her baby now since she's made it the way she wants rather than the way you want, do with it what she will. Then grab 4d6 and start rolling up a new one.
AmanitaEata 04-27-05, 09:23 AM	Actually, I did like him. But then I had to move my charisma/wisdom stats, per DMs choice. And I was told I couldn't play a social Rogue (We did the socials to statup) because he wasn't nice enough. (He was CE.. I was playing him as rather beligerent, but none the less.. when someone wants, they can turn on the charm.) It sounds as if your DM does not get out of the house very often and doesn’t get much social interaction. The number of belligerent, arrogant, downright nasty people who still have a way about them, a charisma that allows them to manipulate people, is vast. If your character has a high charisma, your character has a high charisma, period. The fact that you play him as a chaotic guy, maybe a bit nasty, has no bearing on the fact that people are drawn to him, or drawn to follow him. This is a very real trait in people. So once again, it sounds like your DM doesn’t get out of the house much.
Siduakal 04-27-05, 10:57 AM	Irony.. I am a jackass, and yet they all still love me. Yet my character? He can't pull it off..