Post/Author/DateTime	Post
abustleinyourhedgerow 06-29-06, 12:12 PM	call me a troll, everybody, but i need your opinions... DND BABES SUCKS!!!!!!!! i'm female, and the website promotes stereotypes of female dnd players. what do you think?
simon_tage 06-29-06, 12:23 PM	Is there a website called DND BABES or something? I am not sure as to what you are referencing.
LuckyLeprechaun 06-29-06, 01:02 PM	Is there a website called DND BABES or something? I am not sure as to what you are referencing. http://www.dndbabes.com/ the website promotes stereotypes of female dnd players. Why? Because it's pink?
hmmmm 06-29-06, 01:11 PM	Ahh that website. I didn't mind that it was pink.
xlivid 06-29-06, 01:13 PM	*whoops* replied to soon..
kliate 06-29-06, 01:59 PM	call me a troll, everybody, but i need your opinions... You're a troll. DND BABES SUCKS!!!!!!!! You don't seem to have any shortage of opinion. Moving on... i'm female, and the website promotes stereotypes of female dnd players. I'm male, so forgive me if I don't share your empathy in the situation [/SARCASM] what do you think? Despite the uprising against stereotypes over the past three decades, they aren't so terribly bad as we are led to believe. Stereotypes constitute a fragile system of believes pertaining to groups of people collectively. The typical stereotype admittedly has multiple failings and exceptions (in fact, I am unable to come up with a stereotype at this time which cannot be broken), but they are an integral element of human communication and thought. Seriously. Despite the constant claims that "Stereotypes are a problem", this is a misnomer. The problem is prejudice, rather than stereotyping, which has an admitted tendency to arise from stereotypes, but remains a seperate phenomenon. The development of stereotyping is an unavoidable aspect of the human cognitive process. We develop understanding by comparison and by relationships. As we come to recognize trends within certain groups of people, the natural process of development leads to the creation of stereotypes. Ideally, the stereotyping stage is temporary and serves as merely a stepping stone to a more enlightened viewpoint. However, in cases of inadequate information, the stereotype is an available crutch by which we can attempt to interact with the subject in lieu of any genuine common ground. It is not until this method of stereotyping is used to reach a judgemental conclusion (prejudice) that it becomes problematic. Consider, for instance, a hypothetical man named Ken. We will consider Ken to be the essence of a stereotypical male for the purposes of this thought experiment. Ken meets Barbie, a stereotypical female. Although their collective traits are highly improbable in a pair of authentic humans, we can use our stereotypes to predict their behaviour. Particularly, Ken makes a pass at Barbie. Barbie is offended, slaps Ken, and Ken walks away confused. Now, let us introduce Bob. Bob is a "real" man, that is to say that he has some manner of authentic personality. This makes him intrinsically unpredictable without knowing the elements of his personality. In the presence of this unpredictability, however, we can use our knowledge of Barbie to determine the manner of their interaction. Generic predictions can be made with this partial information - specifically, if Bob is what the stereotypical woman considers attractive (not necessarily limited to the physical attributes), the stereotypical woman will attempt to gain his attention. In the absence of receiving acknowledgement from Bob, her efforts will increase until either a better alternative presents itself, or Barbie decides that Bob isn't worth any further effort. Now let us put Bob in a situation with Kathy. Let us assume that Bob and Kathy have some manner of authentic personality. All predictions that can be made in the system are based on stereotypes in the absence of any prior knowledge of the two of them. All actions that either one performs in an interaction are done, in part or in whole, based on stereotypes. Should either one have no stereotypes to attempt to work from, neither one will learn anything about the opposite sex and the entire species will die out from lack of reproduction. Okay, so perhaps that's a little bit extreme, but that covers a bit of my view on stereotypes: They may lead to bad things, but they aren't inherently bad themselves. Now, on the subject of promoting stereotypes of D&D girls, I will state a handful of assumptions. 1) I assume that the majority of individuals on the site who claim to be girls, are. 2) I assume that these girls are "real", as in, they exist in some actual societal capacity 3) I assume that the mere existence of an entity does not automatically promote stereotypes pertaining to said entity. Given these assumptions, I offer the following opinions: 1) These girls promote their own personalities, or the personas by which they want to be known. If the persona is closely associated with the stereotype, that does not automatically prove or disprove the stereotype. 2) Furthermore, these girls, whether illustrating authentic insight into their personality or projecting a persona, have not to my knowledge made the suggestion (implicit or otherwise) "Assume that all girls who roleplay are like me." 3) Of the five girls about whom the site seems to be focused, there appears to be diversity of personality. Sarah seems to present herself as a new DM with a desire to have a fun time with her friends. She shows signs of a creative streak, and seems to like poking fun at Kristy. If there's a stereotype here, it might be close to Sara of Knights of the Dinner Table fame. I still don't see any active promotion of said stereotype, though. Kristy comes across as the "Girliest" of the bunch, and perhaps would be the source of your objection that the site promotes stereotypes of female D&D players. According to her profile, she is 20 years old. While this is my unqualified opinion, I am of the belief that at 20 years old, the vast majority of the human population has developed a rather solid personality of their own (which generally consists of multiple layers). The fact that she likes Hello Kitty does not automatically prove or promote the stereotype, it simply indicates that Kristy likes cute things. Nicole looks hot to me, as I have a thing for glasses. I disqualify and withhold my opinion on the grounds of possible drool. Kalisha appears to have a thing for Jim. This could be a tease, a flirt, or a running gag. I simply don't know in this case. Otherwise, she's a brick wall to me. (Read: I can't see through her, ergo: Not promoting stereotypes) Ally seems to be the "cool" one in the group. I'm not saying she must be more popular than the others, so much as she seems to be in the know about the "cool" things (urbandictionary, music, etc). She also appears to have a bit less rigid an ego than most others on the forum, as she can be seen supporting others and adjusting her attitude as the situation calls for it. I relate personally to Ally on the grounds that I behave in a similarly variable manner according to the needs of the situation. That's what we call a "Level 3" on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Stereotype? Maybe that of a social butterfly, moreso than a gamer. Granted, I do not know any of these ladies in RL. I'm going only by that which they have presented on the forum, which is done by their own choice. I have an identity on dndbabes.com for interests sake, but choose to keep it confidential for the time being. Now, before you decide to attack me for being some manner of chauvenist male pig, or elitist scum, I ask you to refrain from prejudice as a byproduct of your own stereotypes. Kliate.
simon_tage 06-29-06, 02:24 PM	So what is so bad about this site again and how does it stereotype?
LuckyLeprechaun 06-29-06, 02:34 PM	Because it's pink of course!! Darn stereotypes! I see NOTHING wrong with that site, it is a site made by gaming gals, for gaming gals. Problem comes from where exactly? Oh right, the're not supposed to make their own site because making a site for females who play D&D is massively supporting stereotyping, because ALL gamer gals are EXACTLY alike! They ALL get together and make pink pixies and make these pink pixies have sleepovers and pillowfights. Then they go shopping, then these pixies go out and get spa treatment, rinse and repeat. [/sarcasm] These gals went out and made a great website. End.
JamesDruidDM 06-29-06, 03:26 PM	whats the matter with it? it needs some work, little refienment in the html, what exactly is the problem here, are you up in arms cause they didnt send you a personalized invitation? I mean really, they are trying to expand the female gaming community (yeah I read a bunch of it) and you are trashing them? ...... :confused:
hmmmm 06-29-06, 03:28 PM	The website did have some flaws but I would not go to the extent on saying that it sucked.
OravennasBrother 06-29-06, 03:31 PM	Other than the fact that the site could be some adolescent males site -did you notice the pictures/characters of the women in question? - I don't see what there is to argue about.
hmmmm 06-29-06, 03:33 PM	I would have liked to be able to chose a different skin color, one thing that was odd was what were the moderators enforcing, I did see a link to a CoC on there.
Draconian220 06-29-06, 03:33 PM	Ok, as a female gamer I’m wondering what the deal is here? So it’s pink? Problem? I hate pink; I mean I took the MLP avatar for this forum BECAUSE it’s a funny stereotype. Don’t take it so seriously. And... Looking at the site now.... what stereotype are you seeing that doesn’t apply to DnD players in general?
hmmmm 06-29-06, 03:40 PM	I don't hate pink either (I have pink shoes). The hello kitty dice bag was a little wierd for me though.
Another Gnome 06-29-06, 05:15 PM	I'd rather have a Hello Kitty dicebag than a Grand Theft Auto one... though a Hamtaro dice bag would pwn them both.
anarco_rata 06-29-06, 05:22 PM	Bah, what's the big deal? Somebody (or a group of people) work hard to build a webpage, and to try to promote the game, even if they are following stereotypes, even if the design part really needs work and the colors of the page burn my eyes with, at least they are trying to do a good work and create a new webpage. I find this thread very annoying, if you don't like the webpage, just forget about it and keep playing. Nobody is gonna be so influenced by this webpage that he's gonna start treating female gamers any diferent. As far as stereotypes go, I don't really see the problem either, what's the stereotype? Girls like pink? so what if the ones that did the webpage like the color? I like to wear black,listen to classic rock, and have long hair, so, should I cut my hair and wear a different color because I'm promoting some kind of stereotype? You should complain to them directly, abustleinyourhedgerow, not bash them in another board...
Count Arioch the 28th 06-29-06, 05:54 PM	Other than the fact that the site could be some adolescent males site -did you notice the pictures/characters of the women in question? - I don't see what there is to argue about. Seemed pretty typical to me. <shrug> The pictures did not strike me as anything unusual at all. Anyone can take a good picture, it's a matter of light, shadow, and a good photographer.
Count Arioch the 28th 06-29-06, 05:55 PM	call me a troll, everybody, but i need your opinions... DND BABES SUCKS!!!!!!!! i'm female, and the website promotes stereotypes of female dnd players. what do you think? You're female? Prove it. Because I don't think you are.
was_fired 06-29-06, 06:05 PM	I too am offended by that site. A half-elf paladin... ugh. Everyone knows the best PHB race for paladins is human. Half elves only exisit in order to break the diplomacy skill slightly sooner than the other core races are able to.
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-29-06, 06:10 PM	HOW DARE WOMEN MAKE WEBSITES WITH PINK IN THEM! :mad: Next, they'll be wearing dresses! Other things women should never do because its stereotypical: - having long, or styled hair - shaving. anything. - cooking -- even for themselves! - using the phone - nurturing children in thier uterus - inhaling oxygen/expelling carbon dioxide. What do you mean the stereotype doesn't mean 'something some women do'? What do you mean that simply engaging in sociotally iconic activities doesn't necessarily mean its stereotyping? STOP OPPRESSING ME!
Bruunwald 06-29-06, 08:28 PM	I totally disagree. I've been over there a few times. My wife and another of my female players have signed on (so have I, but have only posted once). There isn't much traffic at all there, so far, but I have noticed all kinds of females, young, middle-aged, cute, not so cute, nerdy, cool, hip, etc. How could that mix possibly be promoting any one, single stereotype? Is it because some of the girls in charge are asking for game advice? Yes, there seem to be many newbs, and some seem to be acting sort of like "helpless females in a gamers' world," but I don't think there's any reason to hold that against the whole site.
Bruunwald 06-29-06, 08:29 PM	I'd rather have a Hello Kitty dicebag than a Grand Theft Auto one... though a Hamtaro dice bag would pwn them both. Ham Hams rule. My little boy thinks so, too.
Bulletproof_Condom 06-29-06, 08:42 PM	From the looks of it, that site's been up less than three weeks. You need to untwist your panties (or whatever) and give it time to develop into something awesome.
Aeolus91 06-29-06, 09:29 PM	This thread is gonna be locked soon, so I guess I should get my posts in (every damn thread I post in gets locked! Am I a fermenter of discord?) I didn't find anything wrong with it, just a kind of fuzziness as to the purpose. Does each gender need its own seperate forums? Not really, but if D&D playing women (admittedly a vast minority) want to discuss female-exclusive D&D stuff, be my guest. Rawr! :dragon:
Kresalak 06-29-06, 10:11 PM	It's actually not female exclusive.
Jherid 06-29-06, 10:21 PM	This troll needs less lame...and more cowbell. You're female? Prove it. Because I don't think you are. How dare you ask a [supposed] female to prove her gender over the internet, she now has every right to get irrationally irritated at you!
FeceMan 06-29-06, 10:24 PM	Stereotypes are overpowered.
LuckyLeprechaun 06-29-06, 10:28 PM	Ok ok, we've all had our say in the matter, pink rules yadda yadda. Can we let the trolls thread die now? Please?! V We might never know... V
Surgo 06-29-06, 10:45 PM	Regular troll, or clever advertising? You be the judge!
Archmage_Vall 06-29-06, 11:37 PM	Hmmm.... I'm gonna go with clever advertising. :cool:
hmmmm 06-30-06, 12:40 AM	not bash them in another board... But I like bashing things.
High Octane 06-30-06, 03:08 AM	OP is gone. Let him disappear from your memory and not reappear as anything but a desire to vomit in your mouth a bit. Like Scrappy-Doo.
Koda77 06-30-06, 04:19 AM	wow a whole site dedicated girls who play dnd. this is almost like porn
ShubNiggurath 06-30-06, 04:35 AM	Stereotypes are overpowered. wow a whole site dedicated girls who play dnd. this is almost like porn This two guys are now officiallly on my hero list
abustleinyourhedgerow 06-30-06, 04:37 AM	You're female? Prove it. Because I don't think you are. that's right. i'm a hermaphrodite. you've caught me. :P HOW DARE WOMEN MAKE WEBSITES WITH PINK IN THEM! Next, they'll be wearing dresses! Other things women should never do because its stereotypical: - having long, or styled hair - shaving. anything. - cooking -- even for themselves! - using the phone - nurturing children in thier uterus - inhaling oxygen/expelling carbon dioxide. What do you mean the stereotype doesn't mean 'something some women do'? What do you mean that simply engaging in sociotally iconic activities doesn't necessarily mean its stereotyping? STOP OPPRESSING ME! i never implied that women cannot give birth, cook, or have long hair, or remove body hair, or use the phone. i simply implied that the site seemed to be promoting stereotypes. there was a debate on the site in another thread and it seemed like they thought all girls use hello kitty dice bags and stuff. so stop making assumptions for the sake of satirizing me. i have long hair, and use the phone a lot, and shave my armpits. i never said that was stereotypical. Now, before you decide to attack me for being some manner of chauvenist male pig, or elitist scum, I ask you to refrain from prejudice as a byproduct of your own stereotypes. making me out to be a feminazi, are we? Ok ok, we've all had our say in the matter, pink rules yadda yadda. Can we let the trolls thread die now? Please?! well said. lock this forum, WizOs.
DIESCUMDIE 06-30-06, 05:25 AM	Just before this is locked I didn't read the site because I don't care that much but If its a site for girls why are there photos of girls pouting, all of them thin. Why make a dnd site for girls especially anyway? For example would you have a dnd site especially for guys with pictures of attractive posters looking sexy for the camera? I'm quiet happy I don't know what any of your ugly mugs look like, your face would not enhance my dnd chat experience in any way
kliate 06-30-06, 07:57 AM	making me out to be a feminazi, are we? Short answer: Yes. Now prove me wrong.
storm1402 06-30-06, 08:20 AM	I do have to say your all sterotyping female gamers, I have 3 current female gamers and the statement they all make pixies and go shopping all the time is incorrect. Younger female players on occasion do play fey types and all characters love to shop. However the female gamers I have previously and currently gamed with in most cases are more into the game then the men. The remember the gaming rules better, they stratagize and there not just hack and slash which I prefure a smart combat rather then just charge and kill.
Aeolus91 06-30-06, 10:14 AM	wow a whole site dedicated girls who play dnd. this is almost like porn Man, that would be great. (Will say no more in case of INCREDIBLE lockage by wizOs) And yeah, I had forgotten that "Friendly Gents" were allowed too. 'Scool.
Zaku 06-30-06, 10:50 AM	Other things women should never do because its stereotypical: - having long, or styled hair - shaving. anything. - cooking -- even for themselves! - using the phone - nurturing children in thier uterus - inhaling oxygen/expelling carbon dioxide. Well Said. To the jerk who started this thread: *ahem* TROLL! Can we consider this closed til the Wizo's show up and decide to do their jobs?
olshanski_home 06-30-06, 11:08 AM	Zaku, I believe that calling someone a troll is against the code of conduct. Secondly, I think you need to brush up a little bit on human psychology. If someone came to these boards and said "Check out these other kewl boards"... nobody would bother. When someone says "There are some other boards and they SUCK!" then everyone needs to go over there and check out just how "bad" they are. Clearly, saying the other boards "suck" was an attempt to drum up interest and increase the number of hits on that site. I would certainly not call it a troll, but I'd consider it closer to advertising.
kelvinaw273 06-30-06, 11:09 AM	May I add to the above person's comments to the OP and many others: Opinions are like backsides (insert less acceptable word instead if you wish) - everyone has got one, but that doesn't mean we all want to see yours.
Gregthavious 06-30-06, 11:36 AM	Opinions are like backsides (insert less acceptable word instead if you wish) - everyone has got one, but that doesn't mean we all want to see yours. Yes, but these are girls' backsides. See the difference? All in all it seemed like any other niche site, and something my fiance might be interested in. I hope they do well.
Pangeon 06-30-06, 11:42 AM	Opinions are like backsides (insert less acceptable word instead if you wish) - everyone has got one, but that doesn't mean we all want to see yours. Well said.
LuckyLeprechaun 06-30-06, 12:56 PM	I have 3 current female gamers and the statement they all make pixies and go shopping all the time is incorrect. Younger female players on occasion do play fey types and all characters love to shop. However the female gamers I have previously and currently gamed with in most cases are more into the game then the men. The remember the gaming rules better, they stratagize and there not just hack and slash which I prefure a smart combat rather then just charge and kill. Please tell me you're joking... I wrote that paragraph not to be taken seriously... Notice the [/sarcasm]? That means I was being sarcastic, ok? I did not actually think that: ALL gamer gals get together and make pink pixies and make these pink pixies have sleepovers and pillowfights. Then they go shopping, then these pixies go out and get spa treatment, rinse and repeat. I was using sarcasm to enhance my point on how this site was indeed not being that supportive of stereotypes, I was not actually telling everyone that indeed, I think all women like... pink pixies... Sorry if I confused you.
Zherog 06-30-06, 01:27 PM	There's something wrong with pink pixies? :confused: :P :P :P
LuckyLeprechaun 06-30-06, 01:32 PM	Well of course not! Being a Leprechaun, all my best friends are pixies, with alot of them being a lighter shade of red. Just the pink pixies I know don't play D&D... sob...
abustleinyourhedgerow 06-30-06, 01:56 PM	Opinions are like backsides (insert less acceptable word instead if you wish) - everyone has got one, but that doesn't mean we all want to see yours. clever. i'm gonna use that. trolling is fun. i just posted that thread to see how you'd react. i also get a little weird when i haven't had my caffeine..... and from what i've gathered from this unique trolling experience, you guys are just plain weird. and that's a good thing. now in the wise words of zaku, let's consider this thread closed until the WizOs do their job. CMON WIZOS!!!!! WE'RE WAAAAAAAAAITING!!!!!!!!!
abustleinyourhedgerow 06-30-06, 01:57 PM	Opinions are like backsides (insert less acceptable word instead if you wish) - everyone has got one, but that doesn't mean we all want to see yours. clever. i'm gonna use that. trolling is fun. i just posted that thread to see how you'd react. i also get a little weird when i haven't had my caffeine..... and from what i've gathered from this unique trolling experience, you guys are just plain weird. and that's a good thing. now in the wise words of zaku, let's consider this thread closed until the WizOs do their job. CMON WIZOS!!!!! WE'RE WAAAAAAAAAITING!!!!!!!!!
hmmmm 06-30-06, 02:00 PM	Can we consider this closed til the Wizo's show up and decide to do their jobs? I belvie the WizOs have probally seen this thread by now, it has 43 posts and is at the top of the list in bold. PS: You missed an m in my name on your sig ;) .
hmmmm 06-30-06, 02:02 PM	trolling is fun. But it is also against the CoC, which should not be toyed with.
Solik 06-30-06, 03:52 PM	I agree with the OP. I think the site in question is stupid and offensive. Mostly because the travesty of HTML that is the site's layout should be offensive to anyone's eyes. It's cornea-threatening. All it needs is a flash to induce seizures. At least, that's how it was when I saw it last month. It seems to have a password requirement to access now, which is nice. The corneas rejoice. That said, the concept of a gamer girl site is kind of cool. Normally, I'm strongly against any kind of gender division (especially when it's OK for females to do it but not males), but in this case, since it might help increase the gamer girl population, my practicality overrides my philosophy and I give it thumbs up. Now just do something about that awful, awful layout. And add real content.
Another Gnome 06-30-06, 04:15 PM	Nice. Congratulations to everyone who helped enforce the stereotype of D&D players as misogynist freaks. :cheer:
green_yawgmoth 06-30-06, 04:20 PM	The site keeps asking me for a username/pw. :confused: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
hmmmm 06-30-06, 04:40 PM	Hey it wont let me back in, even with the name and password that I got for the site. How am I supposed to put posts on now.
LuckyLeprechaun 06-30-06, 04:44 PM	Likely it's just a temporary problem, maybe they're fixing the retina-destroying pink? Or would that be hoping for too much?
hmmmm 06-30-06, 04:50 PM	Maybe they locked it so non of us jerks would go in there.
LuckyLeprechaun 06-30-06, 05:03 PM	Well, that is a possibilty, if they did I don't blame them. :P
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-30-06, 05:12 PM	so stop making assumptions for the sake of satirizing me. But that's pretty much all I do. That and talk about running games for my group, which have a number of females in it including two female DMs who laughed derisively at this thread when I linked them.
El Kabong 06-30-06, 05:42 PM	What is it with the gamer community more than any other that has to split hairs? In my experience, the one thing that drives off female gamers more than any other is that they are designated 'female' gamers. I've seen it in the tabletop games I've played, I've seen it in the online community. Gamers are gamers! We are all here to play a game. Who cares if we are andogynous pygmy albinos from the planet Polyhedron? I don't. And if it's the one thing that's to the detriment of the game community in general it's the constant bandying about of labels.
WizO_Cat 06-30-06, 05:48 PM	Ok, since this topic got nowhere on the D&D General Board, I'll close it now. However, keep in mind that: 1) Trolling is against the Code of Conduct. 2) Calling someone a troll on the boards is considered Baiting which is against the Code of Conduct. If you think someone is trolling, report the thread and leave it at that. Thus, please refrain from both activities from the board. Otherwise, future offenses will result in disciplinary actions, which may include Official Warns.