Do you charge party members for high level resurrections? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Do you charge party members for high level resurrections? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aldarionn
10-10-05, 02:58 PM I play an 8th level Cleric/10th level Celestial Mystic (meaning I have to have the Vow of Abstinence for my class), so obviously I'm the healer int he party, and I have to clean things up when the situation goes south. However, a 5,000 GP diamond for true resurrection is not exactly a small investment, even at my level, as our DM gave us a set of house rules that cut our cash in half to begin with, and we have not seen much gold come from items we've looted. In this situation, would you consider it fair to charge the 5,000 GP for the component if a party member needs a True Resurrection? My DM hinted that as an exhalted character I should consider doing it for free (not in those words, but that is what he let on). Another situation where this could come up is the fact that we have a Monk with the Vow of Poverty in the party. Obviously he will not have the money necissary to pay the 5,000 GP, so would it be fair for me to ask for the party (me included) to split the cost? I'm just curious as to other's opinion on this subject, because personally I do not consider asking a party member to pay 5,000 GP to bring you back to life a fair deal. Some will argue that it was my fault that the other members died int he first place, being the healer, but death cannot always be prevented (poor rolls on finger of death or other high level death spells/traps/balance checks to fall from great height, etc...). Thanks for the advice.

Aldarionn
Super Guy
10-10-05, 03:07 PM See my post in the other thread about party members and payment to get a general idea on why I say this:
They should cover the minimum themselves.

If the minimum is 5000 gold, it's theirs to cover, because they're the one that died.
crossbow
10-10-05, 03:09 PM Three words: party resurrection fund.
No, even as an exalted character, you should not be ‘expected’ to bear the brunt of the cost. You might do it for free the first time or two if no one thought about a fund before, but even exalted people don’t like to be used. Have everyone in the party chip in to the fund, that way it doesn’t matter who dies, they get resurrected. If you don’t want to chip in, you don’t get resurrected. It’s obvious that it isn’t important to them. As to the monk with the VoP, technically he should still be getting a share of the treasure and that can be used for his portion, even if he never sees it.

crossbow
Aldarionn
10-10-05, 03:18 PM Three words: party resurrection fund.
No, even as an exalted character, you should not be ‘expected’ to bear the brunt of the cost. You might do it for free the first time or two if no one thought about a fund before, but even exalted people don’t like to be used. Have everyone in the party chip in to the fund, that way it doesn’t matter who dies, they get resurrected. If you don’t want to chip in, you don’t get resurrected. It’s obvious that it isn’t important to them. As to the monk with the VoP, technically he should still be getting a share of the treasure and that can be used for his portion, even if he never sees it.

crossbow

I like this idea. I'll bring it up next time we have a session. I do not mind chipping in to buy diamonds to cover people when they need a resurrection, but I think having me buy them every time a player does something stupid or rolls low is a bit insane. Thanks for the suggestion.

Aldarionn
CzarGarrett
10-11-05, 02:38 PM All parties should have a ressurection fund/health fund.

People die. It happens. And sometimes you have to bring them back.

Its absurd to expect a single character to have the full expense on spells like that.
SureFoot
10-11-05, 03:40 PM I'll second CzarGarath's sentiment: if the DM "seems to think" you, as an exalted character, should be doling out 5,000 gp freebies, then your DM "seems to be a putz" (no offense, but let's call a spade a spade). That is utterly ridiculous--particularly if your party member died from bad luck, or their own stupidity (I've seen plenty of both).

Our group takes 10% off the top of all treasure we find as a "group pot" from which we buy curative magic (Wands of CLW every chance we get) and restorative/revivifiying magic. It's worked out great so far. (we also put certain items, like Wands of Lesser Restoration, directly into the Pot.)

And I also second the idea that the VoP character *does* still get a share of the treasure (as is written in the BoED) and can still contribute to said Group Pot, and benefit from it, and not lose his VoP feat.
eudas
10-11-05, 03:51 PM it's a pretty silly question, really.
If they can supply the material component, or have one set aside for the purpose should they die, then you'll supply the magic.
Good/Exalted != sucker.
You're already interceding to your god on their behalf, now they want you to pay for it, too? Sheesh!

eudas
KmartKommando
10-12-05, 12:16 AM Uhh, True Resurrection's material component is 25,000gp, not 5,000gp.
75RD Drum Clip
10-12-05, 01:52 AM It might be a good idea for some characters who are smart enough to think of it to buy a diamond in advance to cover such matters.

IMC, in one city, Death Insurance Policies are available. Details vary, thus far no has taken much interest, despite the rather high PC mortality rate.
Jenny With The Lantern
10-12-05, 05:46 AM First of all, party funds, like other people have said, is a must.

Second of all, it's possible to pay someone without actually giving them money. Consider having someone do something for you that you consider a good cause (helping a charity build a home for orphans, doing a quest for a temple, for example). Ask your DM for alternative ways of paying for those spells. After all, your deity grants them, maybe he will do it once or twice for a different payment?
digoraccoon
10-12-05, 08:42 AM I agree with the party fund. Also if the PCs had to shell out cash from their pocket to ressurect someone, that someone should repay them back. Possibally by getting only a fraction of their normal treasure share in a dungeon crawl. That's how my party handles it.

Favors for clerics help too. ;)
Aldarionn
10-12-05, 11:25 AM Uhh, True Resurrection's material component is 25,000gp, not 5,000gp.

Last I checked it was 5,000 gp, but now I'm going to have to look into it. Perhaps it was 25,000 in 3.0 and was changed? Or vice versa?
Leap_UK
10-12-05, 11:49 AM Different religions have different costs:

LG: 5000gp+500gp/lvl
CG: Only available to close friends of priest
LE: 25000gp + a favour owed (but with no questions asked)
CE: 1000gp + Public sacrifice/assassination of one innocent in a Good city of the cults choice

The neutrals vary as to which side they flit to at any time :)
wonlee76
10-12-05, 12:12 PM vice versa. Raise Dead, Ress, etc. was cheaper in 3.0. The price increased substantially in 3.5
Super Guy
10-12-05, 12:21 PM The largest problem is party funds is that they can't just flat-out be party funds. There's got to be some way to balance it out, because what winds up happening is one character constantly dies and another doesn't.

So one character is getting money from everyone else, while another continually loses money with no gain to himself.

If you can work a way around that, or if the players don't have a problem with wasting their money on the dumb guy who can't stay alive, then go for it.
cymbolik
10-12-05, 12:53 PM the other issue with party funds is that someone has to carry all that money, unless you resort to things like leomund's secret chest or many bags of holding, etc.

it really is a great idea, but if, like one poster suggested, you keep shavin 10% off all takings...well, somewhere along the line that is going to start adding up in terms of encumberance.
Thorak
10-12-05, 01:14 PM While these party fund ideas work, I see absolutely no reason not to nail the guy for the 5,000gp. Or its equivalent.

It's no different than, as someone with a magic item creation feat, requiring the party pay you the half price it costs you to make the item. If you had Craft Wondrous Item, how would you feel if the party was forcing you to make them 10,000gp items on demand without any payment?

Don't want to keep paying 5,000gp to get resurrected? Be smarter and don't die as much.

Of course, my most recent as well as my current party is fairly Chaotic-heavy, which is probably why anything as complicated as "10% off the top" is too involved for us. Heck, my current party is all-Neutral, to boot. And my 300lb half-orc Cleric of Garagos, probably the second burliest character in the party, really isn't a guy you want to try and screw on the price of him bringing you back from the dead. Because, barring payment, he'll just take back what he gave you.
Dragonsblood
10-12-05, 02:45 PM I'm in favor of party funds. It makes no sense for the cleric to pay the cost themselves, and often a single party member isn't going to have the funds themself. As for encoumbrance, you don't have to carry wealth around in gold. Ideally you should carry the diamonds, which are a negligable weight.

The largest problem is party funds is that they can't just flat-out be party funds. There's got to be some way to balance it out, because what winds up happening is one character constantly dies and another doesn't.

So one character is getting money from everyone else, while another continually loses money with no gain to himself.

If you can work a way around that, or if the players don't have a problem with wasting their money on the dumb guy who can't stay alive, then go for it.

Just because someone dies more than the other party members, it doesn't mean it's their fault. If the wizard dies because the fighter doesn't rush to his aid when he's able to, it's the fighter's fault. If the fighter dies because the cleric doesn't manage his healing well, it's the cleric's fault. If the rogue dies because the party doesn't back him up after he fails a hide check, it's the party's fault.

However, if a PC constantly dies out of stupidity of theirown, they should be kicked from the group (good party) or not raised (evil party).
Jarric
10-12-05, 03:34 PM It might be a good idea for some characters who are smart enough to think of it to buy a diamond in advance to cover such matters.

IMC, in one city, Death Insurance Policies are available. Details vary, thus far no has taken much interest, despite the rather high PC mortality rate.
I'd like to hear more.
eudas
10-12-05, 03:42 PM Most of the time, IMO, it comes down to someone either wanting to play a video game and respawn, or being such an emotional wuss that they can't take the loss. "What? I died? I can't die! I'm not supposed to die! Wah! What? It costs me alot of money to come back? But I can't afford that! Wah!"

Look, it costs a lot of money to break the laws of reality. Suck it up and save your pennies or face up to facts and use smarter tactics to avoid the necessity of resurrection in the first place. Or, third option, quit being such a whiny baby and accept that your character died, and make a new one.

eudas
Lincoln Hills
10-12-05, 03:56 PM That's a little harsh, eudas. The PHB is chock-bulgin' with spells like slay living, phantasmal killer, finger of death, disintegrate and even the lowly-but-dreaded hold person, all of which can result in unanticipated character death. Now, my personal house-rules make a return from death much more complicated than, "I cast the spell and he's back:" but I feel obligated as a fair arbitrator to make death-magic much, much less common as a consequence. (But it's still out there. Waiting...)

That said, I'll admit that Aldarion is being taken advantage of. However as an Exalted character he really ought to be alongside the notion of restoring life to somebody who does not wish to die just yet. That doesn't mean, however, that he feels the life/death barrier should be treated as inconsequential - or that he should foot the bill.

Go forth unto them, Aldarion, and speak thusly: "Lo! Raise dead shall ye receive freely, for I am loth to see a friend fall: yet if you desire death without consequence, ye shall pay for true resurrection at the book rate - and I, being virtuous, shall add no surcharge."

Or, if you prefer the vernacular: "I can't afford true resurrections anymore, you thumb-headed oaf! I'll provide raise-deads for free but that's the best I can do. It's not like I can maintain a secret stash of big ol' diamonds without you guys knowing about it - I'm exalted, remember?"
crossbow
10-12-05, 04:39 PM That’s the best thing I’ve read all day! And not even a bad way to put it to the party in question. :D

As to the idea of sticking the person that got resurrected with the bill, by original post was meant mostly to outline the start up for a party resurrection fund. Everyone chips in and when someone dies, then you can figure out how you want to replenish the cash. Personally, I’d have the resurrected character pay half and the rest of the party pitches in the rest to replenish the fund. The reasoning being that the person is valuable to the group as well as himself and the death isn’t always going to be the fault of stupidity. If the person dies doing his job than the group (assuming a decently good group) owes him a debt and shouldn’t complain about pitching in the requisite cash. If the character keeps dying due to his own foolishness than he should take out his own insurance.

crossbow
Fizziii
10-12-05, 05:43 PM The last time a party abused my "bring-em-back-to-life" policy, I simply reincarnated them and made them pay for the wish to change them back to their form.
75RD Drum Clip
10-12-05, 08:34 PM I'd like to hear more.

The concept is much like Life Insurance, just that you get to come back to life. Depending on how a character set up their policy, the costs vary. For example if a character were to buy a basic policy, the body would have to be brough to the Issuing Office, then a raise dead will be cast. If an advanced policy is bought, the spell will be ressurection. For the adventurer type, they can purchase the Diamond Policy, which places a Contingency Spell upon the buyer that teleports them to the Issuing office for a ressurection spell. Cost starts 7,000 for basic up to 50,000 for the Diamond Policy.

Some characters (mainly wizards) can set themselves up, such as by casting Stasis Clone (FR Spell). A clone along with a Bottle of Thoughts (Complete Arcane) is another method.
Vaalingrade Ashland
10-12-05, 09:14 PM Almost every game I've played, we've had a party fund for healing and res.
Loren Pechtel
10-12-05, 11:42 PM Your DM doesn't know what exalted means.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aldarionn 10-10-05, 02:58 PM	I play an 8th level Cleric/10th level Celestial Mystic (meaning I have to have the Vow of Abstinence for my class), so obviously I'm the healer int he party, and I have to clean things up when the situation goes south. However, a 5,000 GP diamond for true resurrection is not exactly a small investment, even at my level, as our DM gave us a set of house rules that cut our cash in half to begin with, and we have not seen much gold come from items we've looted. In this situation, would you consider it fair to charge the 5,000 GP for the component if a party member needs a True Resurrection? My DM hinted that as an exhalted character I should consider doing it for free (not in those words, but that is what he let on). Another situation where this could come up is the fact that we have a Monk with the Vow of Poverty in the party. Obviously he will not have the money necissary to pay the 5,000 GP, so would it be fair for me to ask for the party (me included) to split the cost? I'm just curious as to other's opinion on this subject, because personally I do not consider asking a party member to pay 5,000 GP to bring you back to life a fair deal. Some will argue that it was my fault that the other members died int he first place, being the healer, but death cannot always be prevented (poor rolls on finger of death or other high level death spells/traps/balance checks to fall from great height, etc...). Thanks for the advice. Aldarionn
Super Guy 10-10-05, 03:07 PM	See my post in the other thread about party members and payment to get a general idea on why I say this: They should cover the minimum themselves. If the minimum is 5000 gold, it's theirs to cover, because they're the one that died.
crossbow 10-10-05, 03:09 PM	Three words: party resurrection fund. No, even as an exalted character, you should not be ‘expected’ to bear the brunt of the cost. You might do it for free the first time or two if no one thought about a fund before, but even exalted people don’t like to be used. Have everyone in the party chip in to the fund, that way it doesn’t matter who dies, they get resurrected. If you don’t want to chip in, you don’t get resurrected. It’s obvious that it isn’t important to them. As to the monk with the VoP, technically he should still be getting a share of the treasure and that can be used for his portion, even if he never sees it. crossbow
Aldarionn 10-10-05, 03:18 PM	Three words: party resurrection fund. No, even as an exalted character, you should not be ‘expected’ to bear the brunt of the cost. You might do it for free the first time or two if no one thought about a fund before, but even exalted people don’t like to be used. Have everyone in the party chip in to the fund, that way it doesn’t matter who dies, they get resurrected. If you don’t want to chip in, you don’t get resurrected. It’s obvious that it isn’t important to them. As to the monk with the VoP, technically he should still be getting a share of the treasure and that can be used for his portion, even if he never sees it. crossbow I like this idea. I'll bring it up next time we have a session. I do not mind chipping in to buy diamonds to cover people when they need a resurrection, but I think having me buy them every time a player does something stupid or rolls low is a bit insane. Thanks for the suggestion. Aldarionn
CzarGarrett 10-11-05, 02:38 PM	All parties should have a ressurection fund/health fund. People die. It happens. And sometimes you have to bring them back. Its absurd to expect a single character to have the full expense on spells like that.
SureFoot 10-11-05, 03:40 PM	I'll second CzarGarath's sentiment: if the DM "seems to think" you, as an exalted character, should be doling out 5,000 gp freebies, then your DM "seems to be a putz" (no offense, but let's call a spade a spade). That is utterly ridiculous--particularly if your party member died from bad luck, or their own stupidity (I've seen plenty of both). Our group takes 10% off the top of all treasure we find as a "group pot" from which we buy curative magic (Wands of CLW every chance we get) and restorative/revivifiying magic. It's worked out great so far. (we also put certain items, like Wands of Lesser Restoration, directly into the Pot.) And I also second the idea that the VoP character does still get a share of the treasure (as is written in the BoED) and can still contribute to said Group Pot, and benefit from it, and not lose his VoP feat.
eudas 10-11-05, 03:51 PM	it's a pretty silly question, really. If they can supply the material component, or have one set aside for the purpose should they die, then you'll supply the magic. Good/Exalted != sucker. You're already interceding to your god on their behalf, now they want you to pay for it, too? Sheesh! eudas
KmartKommando 10-12-05, 12:16 AM	Uhh, True Resurrection's material component is 25,000gp, not 5,000gp.
75RD Drum Clip 10-12-05, 01:52 AM	It might be a good idea for some characters who are smart enough to think of it to buy a diamond in advance to cover such matters. IMC, in one city, Death Insurance Policies are available. Details vary, thus far no has taken much interest, despite the rather high PC mortality rate.
Jenny With The Lantern 10-12-05, 05:46 AM	First of all, party funds, like other people have said, is a must. Second of all, it's possible to pay someone without actually giving them money. Consider having someone do something for you that you consider a good cause (helping a charity build a home for orphans, doing a quest for a temple, for example). Ask your DM for alternative ways of paying for those spells. After all, your deity grants them, maybe he will do it once or twice for a different payment?
digoraccoon 10-12-05, 08:42 AM	I agree with the party fund. Also if the PCs had to shell out cash from their pocket to ressurect someone, that someone should repay them back. Possibally by getting only a fraction of their normal treasure share in a dungeon crawl. That's how my party handles it. Favors for clerics help too. ;)
Aldarionn 10-12-05, 11:25 AM	Uhh, True Resurrection's material component is 25,000gp, not 5,000gp. Last I checked it was 5,000 gp, but now I'm going to have to look into it. Perhaps it was 25,000 in 3.0 and was changed? Or vice versa?
Leap_UK 10-12-05, 11:49 AM	Different religions have different costs: LG: 5000gp+500gp/lvl CG: Only available to close friends of priest LE: 25000gp + a favour owed (but with no questions asked) CE: 1000gp + Public sacrifice/assassination of one innocent in a Good city of the cults choice The neutrals vary as to which side they flit to at any time :)
wonlee76 10-12-05, 12:12 PM	vice versa. Raise Dead, Ress, etc. was cheaper in 3.0. The price increased substantially in 3.5
Super Guy 10-12-05, 12:21 PM	The largest problem is party funds is that they can't just flat-out be party funds. There's got to be some way to balance it out, because what winds up happening is one character constantly dies and another doesn't. So one character is getting money from everyone else, while another continually loses money with no gain to himself. If you can work a way around that, or if the players don't have a problem with wasting their money on the dumb guy who can't stay alive, then go for it.
cymbolik 10-12-05, 12:53 PM	the other issue with party funds is that someone has to carry all that money, unless you resort to things like leomund's secret chest or many bags of holding, etc. it really is a great idea, but if, like one poster suggested, you keep shavin 10% off all takings...well, somewhere along the line that is going to start adding up in terms of encumberance.
Thorak 10-12-05, 01:14 PM	While these party fund ideas work, I see absolutely no reason not to nail the guy for the 5,000gp. Or its equivalent. It's no different than, as someone with a magic item creation feat, requiring the party pay you the half price it costs you to make the item. If you had Craft Wondrous Item, how would you feel if the party was forcing you to make them 10,000gp items on demand without any payment? Don't want to keep paying 5,000gp to get resurrected? Be smarter and don't die as much. Of course, my most recent as well as my current party is fairly Chaotic-heavy, which is probably why anything as complicated as "10% off the top" is too involved for us. Heck, my current party is all-Neutral, to boot. And my 300lb half-orc Cleric of Garagos, probably the second burliest character in the party, really isn't a guy you want to try and screw on the price of him bringing you back from the dead. Because, barring payment, he'll just take back what he gave you.
Dragonsblood 10-12-05, 02:45 PM	I'm in favor of party funds. It makes no sense for the cleric to pay the cost themselves, and often a single party member isn't going to have the funds themself. As for encoumbrance, you don't have to carry wealth around in gold. Ideally you should carry the diamonds, which are a negligable weight. The largest problem is party funds is that they can't just flat-out be party funds. There's got to be some way to balance it out, because what winds up happening is one character constantly dies and another doesn't. So one character is getting money from everyone else, while another continually loses money with no gain to himself. If you can work a way around that, or if the players don't have a problem with wasting their money on the dumb guy who can't stay alive, then go for it. Just because someone dies more than the other party members, it doesn't mean it's their fault. If the wizard dies because the fighter doesn't rush to his aid when he's able to, it's the fighter's fault. If the fighter dies because the cleric doesn't manage his healing well, it's the cleric's fault. If the rogue dies because the party doesn't back him up after he fails a hide check, it's the party's fault. However, if a PC constantly dies out of stupidity of theirown, they should be kicked from the group (good party) or not raised (evil party).
Jarric 10-12-05, 03:34 PM	It might be a good idea for some characters who are smart enough to think of it to buy a diamond in advance to cover such matters. IMC, in one city, Death Insurance Policies are available. Details vary, thus far no has taken much interest, despite the rather high PC mortality rate. I'd like to hear more.
eudas 10-12-05, 03:42 PM	Most of the time, IMO, it comes down to someone either wanting to play a video game and respawn, or being such an emotional wuss that they can't take the loss. "What? I died? I can't die! I'm not supposed to die! Wah! What? It costs me alot of money to come back? But I can't afford that! Wah!" Look, it costs a lot of money to break the laws of reality. Suck it up and save your pennies or face up to facts and use smarter tactics to avoid the necessity of resurrection in the first place. Or, third option, quit being such a whiny baby and accept that your character died, and make a new one. eudas
Lincoln Hills 10-12-05, 03:56 PM	That's a little harsh, eudas. The PHB is chock-bulgin' with spells like slay living, phantasmal killer, finger of death, disintegrate and even the lowly-but-dreaded hold person, all of which can result in unanticipated character death. Now, my personal house-rules make a return from death much more complicated than, "I cast the spell and he's back:" but I feel obligated as a fair arbitrator to make death-magic much, much less common as a consequence. (But it's still out there. Waiting...) That said, I'll admit that Aldarion is being taken advantage of. However as an Exalted character he really ought to be alongside the notion of restoring life to somebody who does not wish to die just yet. That doesn't mean, however, that he feels the life/death barrier should be treated as inconsequential - or that he should foot the bill. Go forth unto them, Aldarion, and speak thusly: "Lo! Raise dead shall ye receive freely, for I am loth to see a friend fall: yet if you desire death without consequence, ye shall pay for true resurrection at the book rate - and I, being virtuous, shall add no surcharge." Or, if you prefer the vernacular: "I can't afford true resurrections anymore, you thumb-headed oaf! I'll provide raise-deads for free but that's the best I can do. It's not like I can maintain a secret stash of big ol' diamonds without you guys knowing about it - I'm exalted, remember?"
crossbow 10-12-05, 04:39 PM	That’s the best thing I’ve read all day! And not even a bad way to put it to the party in question. :D As to the idea of sticking the person that got resurrected with the bill, by original post was meant mostly to outline the start up for a party resurrection fund. Everyone chips in and when someone dies, then you can figure out how you want to replenish the cash. Personally, I’d have the resurrected character pay half and the rest of the party pitches in the rest to replenish the fund. The reasoning being that the person is valuable to the group as well as himself and the death isn’t always going to be the fault of stupidity. If the person dies doing his job than the group (assuming a decently good group) owes him a debt and shouldn’t complain about pitching in the requisite cash. If the character keeps dying due to his own foolishness than he should take out his own insurance. crossbow
Fizziii 10-12-05, 05:43 PM	The last time a party abused my "bring-em-back-to-life" policy, I simply reincarnated them and made them pay for the wish to change them back to their form.
75RD Drum Clip 10-12-05, 08:34 PM	I'd like to hear more. The concept is much like Life Insurance, just that you get to come back to life. Depending on how a character set up their policy, the costs vary. For example if a character were to buy a basic policy, the body would have to be brough to the Issuing Office, then a raise dead will be cast. If an advanced policy is bought, the spell will be ressurection. For the adventurer type, they can purchase the Diamond Policy, which places a Contingency Spell upon the buyer that teleports them to the Issuing office for a ressurection spell. Cost starts 7,000 for basic up to 50,000 for the Diamond Policy. Some characters (mainly wizards) can set themselves up, such as by casting Stasis Clone (FR Spell). A clone along with a Bottle of Thoughts (Complete Arcane) is another method.
Vaalingrade Ashland 10-12-05, 09:14 PM	Almost every game I've played, we've had a party fund for healing and res.
Loren Pechtel 10-12-05, 11:42 PM	Your DM doesn't know what exalted means.