Does my DM not like Newbies? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Does my DM not like Newbies? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GoofsterStud
10-20-04, 05:58 PM Alright I'm fairly new to the game been playing often lately.

I made a sorcer... (I'm a very logical thinker so I wanted to prestige class since incantatrix sounded to fit my character style and would give him flavore) He loved using metamagic feats. My DM wouldn't let me prestige class yet all these people had 3 classes and I was being so outclassed by everyone else. I understand it is easier for some people to learn basic core but if I obviously understand it and am ready to do it. (So the new player was the weakest character in the game... Good idea right, lets give a player who isn't stupid something worse.

Ok this doesn't stop.

We then do another campaign... I'm obviously the weakest, my fault for what I choose and that's ok.

Now this time I made my own concept and it is strong! I'm tired of always being the weakest link!

So I made a Cleric/Dreomokeeper (I was just looking for a straight magic user that doesn't loose spells and to be able to do spells without cost).

Now I understand some parts are overly strong, but I was tired of being the week link in everything and that's why I went with it.

Well it started out like this....

I couldn't use my diplomacy for dealing with people and making sure I don't say something wrong or lead arround town a little, a wizard/dwarve fighter are the town leaders with no skills for it... (maxed out ranks and I don't even get to roll) I didn't max this out to be useless!!!

I maxed out Knowledge Religion cause that's what clerics do. DM decides to give everyone 1 rank in Knowledge Undead. So now everyone is just as good at knowing about Undead as cleric who maxed ranks it. (BUT THAT WAS THE MAIN POINT I TOOK KNOWLEDGE RELIGION- since I am trying to built a shrine and we are trying to clear a cemetary this whole time...

I get access Anyspell on my cleric list. DM says that in order for me to use it I have to leave a 3rd level domain spell blank (can't have anything in there) and waste that and my cleric spell. If I have somethin in there I can't use it to replace the spell in the slot, and if It's empty from using a spell it's a waste. (I don't agree with that at all).

I wear heavy armor with a strength of 15 and If I wear halfplate I automatically move 15 Speed. (I have a Strength of 15 and am a human, that buy itself isn't enough to ecoumbar me like that!)

Now have to pay component costs for supernatural abilities.

I'm a native outsider (naturally) and I can't polymorph into an outsider...

And the list keeps growing... This is getting insane... Does he always want me to be useless? Next I'll be told I can't use divine Meta Magic Persistant Feat on anything even though that's the only reason I got Persistant spell and extended spell in the first place... What to do...

I can understand a few but this is rediculous.

He's the one who originally said it was ok before I started the build and said he would have no problems with the class.
On_the_wings_of_TPK
10-20-04, 06:20 PM I can see the incantrix thing, I'm at a loath to allow it my campaign. The things broken six ways from sunday.

As for the rest, yea it is sounding like your DM is being a bit of a nob, but as a player you have to ask yourself if this is fun or not. If it is not fun then you could try the following;
1) talk to your DM and find out what is up,
2) find another Dm and game with him/her.

Just remeber that this is just a game and is thus ment to be fun. If it is not fun then it just isn't worth it.
wonlee76
10-20-04, 06:22 PM Usually when dealing with prestige classes and prestige class powers I usually ask the DM on whether its okay. My current DM has done such tweaks similar to the stuff you're experiencing. The big difference is, I knew about them before going into the class. It sounds like your DM has been doing this on a whim as the issue comes up. I wouldn't even be surprised if he bans Divine Metamagic Persistant or simply bans or limits Divine Metamagic in some way.

Also, is he blatantly favoring others compared to you? That is has he allowed things that he would normally not allow for you? Basically I see your DM as hourseruling some standard rules (such as the polymorph and outsider race) or simply changing prestige class powers (which in my opinion is within the DM's discretion).

Talk to the DM before you start the campaign to find out what these houserules are. At least if they become houserules the DM should be bound by the same limitations. As a DM, I've banned some prestige classes from all of my games or made limitations to some abilities in a prestige class that I do allow (such as requiring the expenditure of xp or expensive materials for the Mantle ability of Dweomerkeeper).

Hope this advice helps in the future. Not much can be done at the present other then telling your DM that he's being unfair by changing the rules on you without any prior notice.
Board_Rider
10-20-04, 06:32 PM Well it's kinda hard to understand your post...
If your DM won't let you roll Diplomacy checks....wrong
Certain allowable classes, favortism....houseruling (OK) and wrong
But how are you a human and an outsider?
GoofsterStud
10-20-04, 07:07 PM 5 Levels Divine Disciple...

About the Incantatrix thing (he claimed it's not as good as I think anyway, even though I only wanted it for flavor since I was a hardcore metamagic user...) He wouldn't let me do Arcane Devote either, another class I qualified for and told I couldn't do...

BTW I went over if the the prestige class was ok ahead of time, he said I have no problems with it then keeps changing it every other day to worse and worse.

He also tells me beginning characters are always the weakest... (If the DM makes it that way I guess so!)

Look at it this way a cleric with Knowledge Undead (made up and something that we learned from a cleric in town) rank 1 and Knowledge Religion rank 15. (which involves knowledge undead).

Now why on earth when we are trying to figure out what Undead something is, we are trying to clear out a huge graveyard, am I just as bad as everyone else? I read that part of Knowledge Religion and Undead is considered part of it.

Yet I get a rank of 1 when dealing with undead just like a fighter/ranger/wizard. (I try to make my character usefull in some things and everything I do it in, I end up not being able to do...)
PhaedrusXY
10-20-04, 07:42 PM I get access Anyspell on my cleric list. DM says that in order for me to use it I have to leave a 3rd level domain spell blank (can't have anything in there) and waste that and my cleric spell. If I have somethin in there I can't use it to replace the spell in the slot, and if It's empty from using a spell it's a waste. (I don't agree with that at all).

I wear heavy armor with a strength of 15 and If I wear halfplate I automatically move 15 Speed. (I have a Strength of 15 and am a human, that buy itself isn't enough to ecoumbar me like that!)

Now have to pay component costs for supernatural abilities.

I'm a native outsider (naturally) and I can't polymorph into an outsider...
[/B]1) Anyspell: I'm not sure what you're saying here... I don't think either you or your DM know how this is supposed to work. Either that, or you don't understand what you're DM is saying and/or didn't describe it well.

The way Anyspell is supposed to work: You prepare Anyspell in your domain spell slot. Later on, you "cast" Anyspell, then immediately prepare an arcane spell using that spell slot. The restrictions on the level of arcane spell you can prepare, and how you do it is given in the Anyspell description. It doesn't cost another spell slot for you to use Anyspell. You basically trade in your domain slot for the ability to prepare an arcane spell.

2) Not sure on the movement thing. Wearing heavy armor does slow you down, but normally your movement only goes from 30 down to 20. If you're also encumbered, then it might be slower. I don't remember the encumberance rules off-hand.

3) And as far as the having to pay material and XP costs for supernatural spell: I think that is a perfectly reasonable way to reign in what otherwise would be a VERY broken ability. Otherwise, you can do things like cast Limited Wish at will with no XP cost.

And it sounds like your DM is doing wonky things with the skills, but that is all too common for alot of DMs in my experience. Strangely enough, diplomacy and other "people skills" can be some of the most powerful things in the game, if you use them literally as described in the book. And if the DM doesn't plan his adventure with them in mind, a clever use of them can ruin his plot line. I think this is bad DMing in general to just ignore them because they mess up your plots, but as I said it seems pretty common.

If there is some weird, campaign specific roleplaying reason for giving everyone 1 rank in Knowledge: Undead, I could see it. You should still have a large advantage over them with alot of ranks in Knowledge: Religion. If you don't, talk to your DM about your frustration with how he's handling the skill(s). You should probably do that anyway.
GoofsterStud
10-20-04, 09:42 PM I did he's really thick headed and says that's just the way it is... I just find it funny we all learned about this from a cleric and that's what I am and now everyone is even...

BTW. I have Initiate of Mystra feat, this allows anyspell and greater anyspell on my cleric list. (This was without it on my domain list)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GoofsterStud 10-20-04, 05:58 PM	Alright I'm fairly new to the game been playing often lately. I made a sorcer... (I'm a very logical thinker so I wanted to prestige class since incantatrix sounded to fit my character style and would give him flavore) He loved using metamagic feats. My DM wouldn't let me prestige class yet all these people had 3 classes and I was being so outclassed by everyone else. I understand it is easier for some people to learn basic core but if I obviously understand it and am ready to do it. (So the new player was the weakest character in the game... Good idea right, lets give a player who isn't stupid something worse. Ok this doesn't stop. We then do another campaign... I'm obviously the weakest, my fault for what I choose and that's ok. Now this time I made my own concept and it is strong! I'm tired of always being the weakest link! So I made a Cleric/Dreomokeeper (I was just looking for a straight magic user that doesn't loose spells and to be able to do spells without cost). Now I understand some parts are overly strong, but I was tired of being the week link in everything and that's why I went with it. Well it started out like this.... I couldn't use my diplomacy for dealing with people and making sure I don't say something wrong or lead arround town a little, a wizard/dwarve fighter are the town leaders with no skills for it... (maxed out ranks and I don't even get to roll) I didn't max this out to be useless!!! I maxed out Knowledge Religion cause that's what clerics do. DM decides to give everyone 1 rank in Knowledge Undead. So now everyone is just as good at knowing about Undead as cleric who maxed ranks it. (BUT THAT WAS THE MAIN POINT I TOOK KNOWLEDGE RELIGION- since I am trying to built a shrine and we are trying to clear a cemetary this whole time... I get access Anyspell on my cleric list. DM says that in order for me to use it I have to leave a 3rd level domain spell blank (can't have anything in there) and waste that and my cleric spell. If I have somethin in there I can't use it to replace the spell in the slot, and if It's empty from using a spell it's a waste. (I don't agree with that at all). I wear heavy armor with a strength of 15 and If I wear halfplate I automatically move 15 Speed. (I have a Strength of 15 and am a human, that buy itself isn't enough to ecoumbar me like that!) Now have to pay component costs for supernatural abilities. I'm a native outsider (naturally) and I can't polymorph into an outsider... And the list keeps growing... This is getting insane... Does he always want me to be useless? Next I'll be told I can't use divine Meta Magic Persistant Feat on anything even though that's the only reason I got Persistant spell and extended spell in the first place... What to do... I can understand a few but this is rediculous. He's the one who originally said it was ok before I started the build and said he would have no problems with the class.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 10-20-04, 06:20 PM	I can see the incantrix thing, I'm at a loath to allow it my campaign. The things broken six ways from sunday. As for the rest, yea it is sounding like your DM is being a bit of a nob, but as a player you have to ask yourself if this is fun or not. If it is not fun then you could try the following; 1) talk to your DM and find out what is up, 2) find another Dm and game with him/her. Just remeber that this is just a game and is thus ment to be fun. If it is not fun then it just isn't worth it.
wonlee76 10-20-04, 06:22 PM	Usually when dealing with prestige classes and prestige class powers I usually ask the DM on whether its okay. My current DM has done such tweaks similar to the stuff you're experiencing. The big difference is, I knew about them before going into the class. It sounds like your DM has been doing this on a whim as the issue comes up. I wouldn't even be surprised if he bans Divine Metamagic Persistant or simply bans or limits Divine Metamagic in some way. Also, is he blatantly favoring others compared to you? That is has he allowed things that he would normally not allow for you? Basically I see your DM as hourseruling some standard rules (such as the polymorph and outsider race) or simply changing prestige class powers (which in my opinion is within the DM's discretion). Talk to the DM before you start the campaign to find out what these houserules are. At least if they become houserules the DM should be bound by the same limitations. As a DM, I've banned some prestige classes from all of my games or made limitations to some abilities in a prestige class that I do allow (such as requiring the expenditure of xp or expensive materials for the Mantle ability of Dweomerkeeper). Hope this advice helps in the future. Not much can be done at the present other then telling your DM that he's being unfair by changing the rules on you without any prior notice.
Board_Rider 10-20-04, 06:32 PM	Well it's kinda hard to understand your post... If your DM won't let you roll Diplomacy checks....wrong Certain allowable classes, favortism....houseruling (OK) and wrong But how are you a human and an outsider?
GoofsterStud 10-20-04, 07:07 PM	5 Levels Divine Disciple... About the Incantatrix thing (he claimed it's not as good as I think anyway, even though I only wanted it for flavor since I was a hardcore metamagic user...) He wouldn't let me do Arcane Devote either, another class I qualified for and told I couldn't do... BTW I went over if the the prestige class was ok ahead of time, he said I have no problems with it then keeps changing it every other day to worse and worse. He also tells me beginning characters are always the weakest... (If the DM makes it that way I guess so!) Look at it this way a cleric with Knowledge Undead (made up and something that we learned from a cleric in town) rank 1 and Knowledge Religion rank 15. (which involves knowledge undead). Now why on earth when we are trying to figure out what Undead something is, we are trying to clear out a huge graveyard, am I just as bad as everyone else? I read that part of Knowledge Religion and Undead is considered part of it. Yet I get a rank of 1 when dealing with undead just like a fighter/ranger/wizard. (I try to make my character usefull in some things and everything I do it in, I end up not being able to do...)
PhaedrusXY 10-20-04, 07:42 PM	I get access Anyspell on my cleric list. DM says that in order for me to use it I have to leave a 3rd level domain spell blank (can't have anything in there) and waste that and my cleric spell. If I have somethin in there I can't use it to replace the spell in the slot, and if It's empty from using a spell it's a waste. (I don't agree with that at all). I wear heavy armor with a strength of 15 and If I wear halfplate I automatically move 15 Speed. (I have a Strength of 15 and am a human, that buy itself isn't enough to ecoumbar me like that!) Now have to pay component costs for supernatural abilities. I'm a native outsider (naturally) and I can't polymorph into an outsider... [/B]1) Anyspell: I'm not sure what you're saying here... I don't think either you or your DM know how this is supposed to work. Either that, or you don't understand what you're DM is saying and/or didn't describe it well. The way Anyspell is supposed to work: You prepare Anyspell in your domain spell slot. Later on, you "cast" Anyspell, then immediately prepare an arcane spell using that spell slot. The restrictions on the level of arcane spell you can prepare, and how you do it is given in the Anyspell description. It doesn't cost another spell slot for you to use Anyspell. You basically trade in your domain slot for the ability to prepare an arcane spell. 2) Not sure on the movement thing. Wearing heavy armor does slow you down, but normally your movement only goes from 30 down to 20. If you're also encumbered, then it might be slower. I don't remember the encumberance rules off-hand. 3) And as far as the having to pay material and XP costs for supernatural spell: I think that is a perfectly reasonable way to reign in what otherwise would be a VERY broken ability. Otherwise, you can do things like cast Limited Wish at will with no XP cost. And it sounds like your DM is doing wonky things with the skills, but that is all too common for alot of DMs in my experience. Strangely enough, diplomacy and other "people skills" can be some of the most powerful things in the game, if you use them literally as described in the book. And if the DM doesn't plan his adventure with them in mind, a clever use of them can ruin his plot line. I think this is bad DMing in general to just ignore them because they mess up your plots, but as I said it seems pretty common. If there is some weird, campaign specific roleplaying reason for giving everyone 1 rank in Knowledge: Undead, I could see it. You should still have a large advantage over them with alot of ranks in Knowledge: Religion. If you don't, talk to your DM about your frustration with how he's handling the skill(s). You should probably do that anyway.
GoofsterStud 10-20-04, 09:42 PM	I did he's really thick headed and says that's just the way it is... I just find it funny we all learned about this from a cleric and that's what I am and now everyone is even... BTW. I have Initiate of Mystra feat, this allows anyspell and greater anyspell on my cleric list. (This was without it on my domain list)