does this sound fair to you? [Archive] - Wizards Community

does this sound fair to you? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
friedmad
02-13-07, 01:14 AM a 3-character party (only two players, the dwarf below is an NPC):

Druid 7 Elf
Cleric 4/Paladin 2 Aasimar
Ranger 7 Dwarf

we walk into the gatehouse of an abandoned keep and are surprised by two (yes...two) arrow demons who dimension-door to inaccesible rooms on either side with murder holes the second we close for combat. the cleric/paladin loses half his hitpoints in the surprise round, the ranger's animal companion goes down in the surprise round, and the druid's companion is almost pierced in two before we ever get to act...

a CR9 encounter versus an ECL 6 party (cuz we average 7 levels but are light one character)
Salla
02-13-07, 01:50 AM On the upside, he only killed the animals, which, tactically speaking, was unwise. They should have concentrated their firepower on one character (probably the cleric/paladin, given they were demons) and annihilated him completely. The loss of two animals is pretty inconsequential.

Anyway, that was definitely a 'boss fight', and the monsters were fighting intelligently, which they should. Essentially, at that point, you turn tail and run, and come back when you've prepared proper spells and gathered appropriate equipment and information to deal with them.

For example, finding out what kind of DR they have ... getting some Protection from Arrows-style items, something to cast Dimensional Anchor so they can't teleport away again, that sort of thing.

But, anyway ... unless your DM called the game in the middle of this slapdown, I'm guessing it's been resolved one way or the other. Who won?
TheChilliGod
02-13-07, 02:36 AM Technically, it was more of an EL 10 or 11 encounter. Having convenient rooms with arrow holes right next to the party kind of artificially raises the challenge.

But even without the arrow holes, it seems as though you would have lost both animal companions anyways. Yeah, that's the danger with high-EL encounters, but this is not quite something to call BS about. As a matter of fact, facing high-EL encounters like this, so I've found among my own players, can actually make the game more exciting.

Count this as a learning experience to maybe not be as headstrong as you may have been, or to research before you encounter, and then move on with it. If a PC died, then you would have surely said so, so no lasting harm done.

Edit: If there's one thing to call BS on, how could the arrow demons cast Dimension Door and attack during the surprise round? How come there was even a surprise round if both sides are aware of the other (an impression I discerned from the context of "the second we close for combat")?
friedmad
02-13-07, 03:17 AM let me clarify.

surprise round they shot at us.
round 2, we closed to melee and attack (the only thing that saved us was we all rolled high initiatives). on their turn on round they tried to dimension door. AoAs cut down one of the demons but the other got into the murderhole room. round 3 we're milling around, tending to dying animals and wounded characters, when more arrows start hitting us (we didnt know about the murderhole rooms until we got attacked from them and the DM called for a spot check to see the arrow slits in the walls). The dwarf drops to 20% of his full hitpoints. the door to the north (opposite from where we entered) is locked. Paladin and ranger spend their round trying to open it and fail. The ranger drops. the druid drops to half her HP. the paladin cranks up his Power Attack to +5, and using his bastard sword 2-handed, splits the locked door asunder and moves into the next room, followed by the druid. no arrows next round. paladin risks his life to go back and retrieve the downed dwarf and drag him into the next room, then heals him to consciousness.

long story short, yeah, we defeated the demons. BUT, this was only the entryway of a 4-floor abandoned keep. if these guys were sentries, imagine what the big boss is gonna be?!?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
friedmad 02-13-07, 01:14 AM	a 3-character party (only two players, the dwarf below is an NPC): Druid 7 Elf Cleric 4/Paladin 2 Aasimar Ranger 7 Dwarf we walk into the gatehouse of an abandoned keep and are surprised by two (yes...two) arrow demons who dimension-door to inaccesible rooms on either side with murder holes the second we close for combat. the cleric/paladin loses half his hitpoints in the surprise round, the ranger's animal companion goes down in the surprise round, and the druid's companion is almost pierced in two before we ever get to act... a CR9 encounter versus an ECL 6 party (cuz we average 7 levels but are light one character)
Salla 02-13-07, 01:50 AM	On the upside, he only killed the animals, which, tactically speaking, was unwise. They should have concentrated their firepower on one character (probably the cleric/paladin, given they were demons) and annihilated him completely. The loss of two animals is pretty inconsequential. Anyway, that was definitely a 'boss fight', and the monsters were fighting intelligently, which they should. Essentially, at that point, you turn tail and run, and come back when you've prepared proper spells and gathered appropriate equipment and information to deal with them. For example, finding out what kind of DR they have ... getting some Protection from Arrows-style items, something to cast Dimensional Anchor so they can't teleport away again, that sort of thing. But, anyway ... unless your DM called the game in the middle of this slapdown, I'm guessing it's been resolved one way or the other. Who won?
TheChilliGod 02-13-07, 02:36 AM	Technically, it was more of an EL 10 or 11 encounter. Having convenient rooms with arrow holes right next to the party kind of artificially raises the challenge. But even without the arrow holes, it seems as though you would have lost both animal companions anyways. Yeah, that's the danger with high-EL encounters, but this is not quite something to call BS about. As a matter of fact, facing high-EL encounters like this, so I've found among my own players, can actually make the game more exciting. Count this as a learning experience to maybe not be as headstrong as you may have been, or to research before you encounter, and then move on with it. If a PC died, then you would have surely said so, so no lasting harm done. Edit: If there's one thing to call BS on, how could the arrow demons cast Dimension Door and attack during the surprise round? How come there was even a surprise round if both sides are aware of the other (an impression I discerned from the context of "the second we close for combat")?
friedmad 02-13-07, 03:17 AM	let me clarify. surprise round they shot at us. round 2, we closed to melee and attack (the only thing that saved us was we all rolled high initiatives). on their turn on round they tried to dimension door. AoAs cut down one of the demons but the other got into the murderhole room. round 3 we're milling around, tending to dying animals and wounded characters, when more arrows start hitting us (we didnt know about the murderhole rooms until we got attacked from them and the DM called for a spot check to see the arrow slits in the walls). The dwarf drops to 20% of his full hitpoints. the door to the north (opposite from where we entered) is locked. Paladin and ranger spend their round trying to open it and fail. The ranger drops. the druid drops to half her HP. the paladin cranks up his Power Attack to +5, and using his bastard sword 2-handed, splits the locked door asunder and moves into the next room, followed by the druid. no arrows next round. paladin risks his life to go back and retrieve the downed dwarf and drag him into the next room, then heals him to consciousness. long story short, yeah, we defeated the demons. BUT, this was only the entryway of a 4-floor abandoned keep. if these guys were sentries, imagine what the big boss is gonna be?!?