Domain Problem: Rules Lawyer Sought [Archive] - Wizards Community

Domain Problem: Rules Lawyer Sought [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shandrakor
03-23-05, 03:23 AM NOTE: I'm usually the DM, but I found a group that I only have to play in. Thus, I seek aid from those better versed in player lore.

The True Necromancer, from LM, has a number of swanky class features, including the oh-so-nifty 'allied only' Desecrate aura, eventually reaching 10 feet/level. That beats the pants off the usual 20' radius. The problem is that TN requires access to the Death domain. The DM for the upcoming campaign has already ruled that the Yathrinshee PrC (PGtF 187) class feature 'Curse of the Revenancer' is an UNLIMITED pool of zombies, raised instantaneously. The difficulty is that the Yathrinshee requires you to worship Kiaransalee, whose domains include Evil, Chaos, Drow, Undeath, & one other -- but notably not death.

Finally: the question: per the RAW, is there any way to gain the abilities of both? The DM in question has already ruled out the possiblity of changing the TN to allow the Undeath domain to qualify, or adding Death to Kiaransalee's domains. Also, he doesn't feel that taking levels of Contemplative or something similar that grants bonus domains would allow me to select the Death domain. So if the PC-to-be in question worshipped Nerull (for example), then switched to Kiaransalee, she would no longer qualify for the 'access to the Death domain' portion of the TN. Thus, per my understanding of the RAW, no longer meeting the prerequisites for the PrC would then cause all of the class features to cease to function. Correct?

Is there any argument (or really, really shady method) within the RAW to let me keep the powers of both the Yathrinshee and the True Necromancer? Going from Yathrinshee to TN wouldn't work, because the Yathrinshee PrC is exclusive to a rather complicated multiclass of Wizard and Cleric, and are the elite priests of Kiaransalee. True Necromancer to Yathrinshee is my only hope...can you make it work?
green_yawgmoth
03-23-05, 03:48 AM Take one level in another PrC that let's you take another domain of your choice. Or, the smarter thing to do would be to ask your DM if you can take the undeath domain in place of the death domain. Seems like it would make more than enough sense, given the nature of the TN.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Feriin
03-23-05, 01:59 PM Take one level in another PrC that let's you take another domain of your choice. Or, the smarter thing to do would be to ask your DM if you can take the undeath domain in place of the death domain. Seems like it would make more than enough sense, given the nature of the TN.

Um he already said the DM would not allow him to switch Undeath with Death. Your other idea shoudl work though.
SD
03-23-05, 02:54 PM Take one level in another PrC that let's you take another domain of your choice.He also said that the DM feels that bonus domains from PrCs shouldn't allow him to take the Death Domain. Wah wah wah wahhhhhh...

Tell your DM he's a meaniehead and threaten to cry. It once got me Weapon Focus (greatsword).
LukiLoki
03-23-05, 03:30 PM Tell your DM he's a meaniehead and threaten to cry. It once got me Weapon Focus (greatsword).
Now THAT'S some rules-lawyerin'!
Alcari Ambaron
03-23-05, 04:15 PM Indeed, threatening to cry is a sure-fire way to get what you want...
if you happen to be a little-pink-show-waring-lollypop-sucking-singing-while-sitting-on-a-tree-little-gril (yes, little TWICE)

but that's not meant as an insult.

I don't think there's a way to get Death domein...seeing as though the DM almost SAID you couldn't.....house rule are above the RAW.

you could try..."i can worship two gods.....it's called polytheism"
green_yawgmoth
03-23-05, 04:37 PM If your DM has already shot down the possibility of getting a second PrC or swapping undeath for death (which makes no sense personally), then he's basically telling you "guess what, no TN for you." I'd say ask him why he won't let you swap the domain requirements.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Shandrakor
03-23-05, 05:38 PM Take one level in another PrC that let's you take another domain of your choice.

The problem is I can't find a PrC that lets me add a domain of my choice -- they all seem to add an addendum; to wit "..can choose any domain permitted by her deity or alignment." --CD pg 32. That particular quote refers to the Contemplative, but the rest have similar wording. If I could find one that didn't have that oh-so-annoying caveat...

Oh well -- thanks for your help guys. Looks like I'll have to mod that bit of the character backstory.

Happy Gaming!
UltimateReality
03-23-05, 05:39 PM Now THAT'S some rules-lawyerin'!
*shrug* The scary thing is I've used it...and the DM let it work. I kinda lost some respect for him after that, although I was grateful I got the 100 XP needed to level along with the rest of the party. :P

Thankfully he's running a much more balanced and more interesting campaign now. (In his words: "it follows the rules! I have adventure notes! I don't have to make everything up on the spot! There's real DCs and ACs and everything!" He looked like a kid in a candy store when he told me this.)
Shandrakor
03-24-05, 03:36 AM "it follows the rules! I have adventure notes! I don't have to make everything up on the spot! There's real DCs and ACs and everything!" He looked like a kid in a candy store when he told me this.)

ROFL
ShadowDragon8685
03-24-05, 04:19 AM Smack your DM in the face with a wet fish, and tell him that if he basically screws you over like this, you're walking, because invalidating a large portion of a PrC that's more suited to your new god than your old on a TECHNICALITY is bovine manure.

Use stronger language at your discresion.
Vatras
03-24-05, 08:42 AM Is there some specific reason why you cannot chose a god with the death domain and then become a true necromancer?

I can understand why the DM doesnt want to bend the rules to allow another munchkin build (I would not either), but you can still take another god and play the TN. If you only want to do the whole thing for this one trick, its a waste of time and XP.
Captain Casualty
03-24-05, 09:25 AM There is a feat in complete divine that allows divine casters to pick up an extra domain...

Not got the book here though so can't argue about pre-requisites.

Sorry.
Thoronmir
03-24-05, 09:39 AM Finally: the question: per the RAW, is there any way to gain the abilities of both?Aparently, the answer is "No."

What ever happened to the days when a DM was applauded for adhering to the RAW? I bend the rules plenty to allow my players to build PCs they will enjoy playing, but they understand that any such dispensations are entirely at my discretion … and I have said “No” a few times. This would have been one of those times.

The situation seems easy. There is a PrC that worships a specific deity … that deity has a specific list of domains … there is another PrC [caveat: I don’t have Libris Mortis … is True Necromancer a new “base” class or a PrC?] that requires a domain that deity does not allow … I’ve yet to hear a valid roleplaying justification for either the requested deviation from the RAW or for the build … and the whole thing smacks of munchkinism.

As noted by the OP, taking a third PrC to obtain an additional domain doesn’t appear to solve his problem since such PrC’s limit the available domains to those his deity allows. I would agree with his DM … if a PC changes deities to one that does not allow the bonus domain from the previous PrC, the PC loses that domain. This is just one more choice a player has to make … which PrC he wants to take.

Let’s turn the situation around. Assume the build in question was for an NPC. The DM decides to deviate from the RAW and allow his BBEG to take both PrC’s and suddenly the party is battling a True Necromancer who’s unleashing his unlimited supply of zombies. This thread would have become another “My DM is Unfair!” whine-fest and someone who will remain nameless would have demanded that the DM become victim of “the hammergun” (or a wet fish).

As for asking the DM to explain why he won’t allow the deviation, if he’s willing to offer an explanation, so be it. But I don’t think DMs should be condemned for “arbitrarily” adhering to the RAW. In fact, the onus is on the player to explain why the deviation is a good idea (in this case, it’s a matter of opinion whether Death is a more appropriate domain for the deity in question). If a player requests that I allow him to deviate from the RAW, but there may be consequences neither of us can foresee, I usually decline the request. Oddly enough, I’ve never had a player leave the game over such an issue, nor have any of my players appeared at the table with a hammergun, wet fish, or any similar implement of DM punishment.
ExaltedAbuse
03-24-05, 09:41 AM There is a feat in complete divine that allows divine casters to pick up an extra domain...

Not got the book here though so can't argue about pre-requisites.

Sorry.
I looked and there doesn't seem to be a feat like that in CD
ExaltedAbuse
03-24-05, 09:52 AM What ever happened to the days when a DM was applauded for adhering to the RAW? I bend the rules plenty to allow my players to build PCs they will
As for asking the DM to explain why he won’t allow the deviation, if he’s willing to offer an explanation, so be it. But I don’t think DMs should be condemned for “arbitrarily” adhering to the RAW. In fact, the onus is on the player to explain why the deviation is a good idea (in this case, it’s a matter of opinion whether Death is a more appropriate domain for the deity in question). If a player requests that I allow him to deviate from the RAW, but there may be consequences neither of us can foresee, I usually decline the request. Oddly enough, I’ve never had a player leave the game over such an issue, nor have any of my players appeared at the table with a hammergun, wet fish, or any similar implement of DM punishment.

I completely agree, the main problem is Kiaransalee is a low-powered (compared to say, Nerull) diety and I would argue more of a demi-god like Vecna. Nothing about the god would suggest she has hold over the death portfolio, she may have undeath but when you think about it thats about as different as death is to life. Not only that but death is a huge portfolio to have a hand in, much like the magic domain. Hell, Mystra is a greater god (I think...) and even she can't grant the death domain.
TheRedRobedWizard
03-24-05, 09:58 AM Complete Divine has a feat called "Extra Domain", but it is an Epic feat, so you're SOL.

Personally, I'd go for the True Necromancer over that muchkiny piece of crap FR PrC.

Either that, or stop complaining that you can't get BOTH. Go with one or the other, and you'll be better at it.

Wizard 3 / Cleric of (Nerul/Vol or whatever FR deity has the Death domain) 3 / True Necromancer 14.

The smart money would be on having The Blood of Vol as your deity, since you get access to the Death and Necromancer domains. Necromancer domain gives you all kinds of awesome spells, including Ray of Enfeeblement, Command Undead, and the like. Plus, +1 Caster Level for Necromancy spells. I'd assume this benefit only works for divine spells, but who knows if your DM would allow it to work for arcane too.

-TRRW
ExaltedAbuse
03-24-05, 11:08 AM Complete Divine has a feat called "Extra Domain", but it is an Epic feat, so you're SOL.

Ah, thats why I didn't spot it, I didn't bother to look in the Epic feats. Still wouldn't work though as it only gives a domain from one of the ones your diety grants.
Count Arioch the 28th
03-24-05, 11:18 AM What ever happened to the days when a DM was applauded for adhering to the RAW?

You woke up. Seriously, those days never existed at any time in the history of the game.
ShadowDragon8685
03-24-05, 01:56 PM This is a PrC involved wholely with NECROMANCY of the summoning dead things type. Which is undead.

I fail entirely to see why the UNDEAD domain fails to satisfy the spirit of it's requirement, while the plain-jane Death domain, which could mean anything from the undead to making sure that the dead rest in peace, does.
Maerdash
03-24-05, 01:59 PM Multi class cleric, you worship a greater deity(torm) and a subortinate to that deity(the red knight in the case of torm....or maybe its tempus) any way you just have to find out what god with the death domain is tellin little undeath demi god boy what to do then worship them both via multi classing, thats the only loophole i can think of and its a FR loophole not raw so i could be just blowing hot air lets see what the others think
DM Denubis
03-24-05, 02:22 PM The RAW state that you can't multiclass into a base class twice, even if it would grant you different abilities. Cleric is even used in the example.

The reason why Undeath does not work is that's what it says. Perhaps they'd already thought of this, and specifically made it that way. I'm all for min/maxing, but within the RAW, which doesn't seem to be possible in this situation.
Verenal
03-24-05, 03:43 PM Take a level of Mystic from Dragonlance Campaign Setting. It gives you one domain and it doesn't require you to worship a deity.
Shandrakor
03-24-05, 07:08 PM I completely agree, the main problem is Kiaransalee is a low-powered (compared to say, Nerull) diety and I would argue more of a demi-god like Vecna. Nothing about the god would suggest she has hold over the death portfolio, she may have undeath but when you think about it thats about as different as death is to life. Not only that but death is a huge portfolio to have a hand in, much like the magic domain. Hell, Mystra is a greater god (I think...) and even she can't grant the death domain.

Kiaransalee was a demigod, who was recently raised to Lesser Deity status (City of the Spider Queen). Mostly I want to play a cleric of hers because I really enjoyed running CotSQ, and would like to play around with an insane Drow goddess of Vengance and Undeath.

The smart money would be on having The Blood of Vol as your deity, since you get access to the Death and Necromancer domains. Necromancer domain gives you all kinds of awesome spells, including Ray of Enfeeblement, Command Undead, and the like. Plus, +1 Caster Level for Necromancy spells. I'd assume this benefit only works for divine spells, but who knows if your DM would allow it to work for arcane too.

-TRRW
The Blood of Vol is from what book?

Multi class cleric, you worship a greater deity(torm) and a subortinate to that deity(the red knight in the case of torm....or maybe its tempus) any way you just have to find out what god with the death domain is tellin little undeath demi god boy what to do then worship them both via multi classing, thats the only loophole i can think of and its a FR loophole not raw so i could be just blowing hot air lets see what the others think
I like this concept. It's a FR campaign, too, so it just might work. Could you explain the basis of this loophole, and an example please?

Thanks for your help everyone. ;)

EDIT: Verenal, my DM won't allow stuff from non-DnD or FR books. Thanks for the offer though.
Nedlum
03-24-05, 08:38 PM Blood of Vol is Eberron. You're in the FR, so I wouldn't pay it any mind.
Shandrakor
03-24-05, 09:24 PM I like the concept. Since I'm mostly a DM, it looks like the new campaign I'm starting will be in Eberron. =) Thanks!

What a NIFTY name!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shandrakor 03-23-05, 03:23 AM	NOTE: I'm usually the DM, but I found a group that I only have to play in. Thus, I seek aid from those better versed in player lore. The True Necromancer, from LM, has a number of swanky class features, including the oh-so-nifty 'allied only' Desecrate aura, eventually reaching 10 feet/level. That beats the pants off the usual 20' radius. The problem is that TN requires access to the Death domain. The DM for the upcoming campaign has already ruled that the Yathrinshee PrC (PGtF 187) class feature 'Curse of the Revenancer' is an UNLIMITED pool of zombies, raised instantaneously. The difficulty is that the Yathrinshee requires you to worship Kiaransalee, whose domains include Evil, Chaos, Drow, Undeath, & one other -- but notably not death. Finally: the question: per the RAW, is there any way to gain the abilities of both? The DM in question has already ruled out the possiblity of changing the TN to allow the Undeath domain to qualify, or adding Death to Kiaransalee's domains. Also, he doesn't feel that taking levels of Contemplative or something similar that grants bonus domains would allow me to select the Death domain. So if the PC-to-be in question worshipped Nerull (for example), then switched to Kiaransalee, she would no longer qualify for the 'access to the Death domain' portion of the TN. Thus, per my understanding of the RAW, no longer meeting the prerequisites for the PrC would then cause all of the class features to cease to function. Correct? Is there any argument (or really, really shady method) within the RAW to let me keep the powers of both the Yathrinshee and the True Necromancer? Going from Yathrinshee to TN wouldn't work, because the Yathrinshee PrC is exclusive to a rather complicated multiclass of Wizard and Cleric, and are the elite priests of Kiaransalee. True Necromancer to Yathrinshee is my only hope...can you make it work?
green_yawgmoth 03-23-05, 03:48 AM	Take one level in another PrC that let's you take another domain of your choice. Or, the smarter thing to do would be to ask your DM if you can take the undeath domain in place of the death domain. Seems like it would make more than enough sense, given the nature of the TN. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Feriin 03-23-05, 01:59 PM	Take one level in another PrC that let's you take another domain of your choice. Or, the smarter thing to do would be to ask your DM if you can take the undeath domain in place of the death domain. Seems like it would make more than enough sense, given the nature of the TN. Um he already said the DM would not allow him to switch Undeath with Death. Your other idea shoudl work though.
SD 03-23-05, 02:54 PM	Take one level in another PrC that let's you take another domain of your choice.He also said that the DM feels that bonus domains from PrCs shouldn't allow him to take the Death Domain. Wah wah wah wahhhhhh... Tell your DM he's a meaniehead and threaten to cry. It once got me Weapon Focus (greatsword).
LukiLoki 03-23-05, 03:30 PM	Tell your DM he's a meaniehead and threaten to cry. It once got me Weapon Focus (greatsword). Now THAT'S some rules-lawyerin'!
Alcari Ambaron 03-23-05, 04:15 PM	Indeed, threatening to cry is a sure-fire way to get what you want... if you happen to be a little-pink-show-waring-lollypop-sucking-singing-while-sitting-on-a-tree-little-gril (yes, little TWICE) but that's not meant as an insult. I don't think there's a way to get Death domein...seeing as though the DM almost SAID you couldn't.....house rule are above the RAW. you could try..."i can worship two gods.....it's called polytheism"
green_yawgmoth 03-23-05, 04:37 PM	If your DM has already shot down the possibility of getting a second PrC or swapping undeath for death (which makes no sense personally), then he's basically telling you "guess what, no TN for you." I'd say ask him why he won't let you swap the domain requirements. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Shandrakor 03-23-05, 05:38 PM	Take one level in another PrC that let's you take another domain of your choice. The problem is I can't find a PrC that lets me add a domain of my choice -- they all seem to add an addendum; to wit "..can choose any domain permitted by her deity or alignment." --CD pg 32. That particular quote refers to the Contemplative, but the rest have similar wording. If I could find one that didn't have that oh-so-annoying caveat... Oh well -- thanks for your help guys. Looks like I'll have to mod that bit of the character backstory. Happy Gaming!
UltimateReality 03-23-05, 05:39 PM	Now THAT'S some rules-lawyerin'! shrug The scary thing is I've used it...and the DM let it work. I kinda lost some respect for him after that, although I was grateful I got the 100 XP needed to level along with the rest of the party. :P Thankfully he's running a much more balanced and more interesting campaign now. (In his words: "it follows the rules! I have adventure notes! I don't have to make everything up on the spot! There's real DCs and ACs and everything!" He looked like a kid in a candy store when he told me this.)
Shandrakor 03-24-05, 03:36 AM	"it follows the rules! I have adventure notes! I don't have to make everything up on the spot! There's real DCs and ACs and everything!" He looked like a kid in a candy store when he told me this.) ROFL
ShadowDragon8685 03-24-05, 04:19 AM	Smack your DM in the face with a wet fish, and tell him that if he basically screws you over like this, you're walking, because invalidating a large portion of a PrC that's more suited to your new god than your old on a TECHNICALITY is bovine manure. Use stronger language at your discresion.
Vatras 03-24-05, 08:42 AM	Is there some specific reason why you cannot chose a god with the death domain and then become a true necromancer? I can understand why the DM doesnt want to bend the rules to allow another munchkin build (I would not either), but you can still take another god and play the TN. If you only want to do the whole thing for this one trick, its a waste of time and XP.
Captain Casualty 03-24-05, 09:25 AM	There is a feat in complete divine that allows divine casters to pick up an extra domain... Not got the book here though so can't argue about pre-requisites. Sorry.
Thoronmir 03-24-05, 09:39 AM	Finally: the question: per the RAW, is there any way to gain the abilities of both?Aparently, the answer is "No." What ever happened to the days when a DM was applauded for adhering to the RAW? I bend the rules plenty to allow my players to build PCs they will enjoy playing, but they understand that any such dispensations are entirely at my discretion … and I have said “No” a few times. This would have been one of those times. The situation seems easy. There is a PrC that worships a specific deity … that deity has a specific list of domains … there is another PrC [caveat: I don’t have Libris Mortis … is True Necromancer a new “base” class or a PrC?] that requires a domain that deity does not allow … I’ve yet to hear a valid roleplaying justification for either the requested deviation from the RAW or for the build … and the whole thing smacks of munchkinism. As noted by the OP, taking a third PrC to obtain an additional domain doesn’t appear to solve his problem since such PrC’s limit the available domains to those his deity allows. I would agree with his DM … if a PC changes deities to one that does not allow the bonus domain from the previous PrC, the PC loses that domain. This is just one more choice a player has to make … which PrC he wants to take. Let’s turn the situation around. Assume the build in question was for an NPC. The DM decides to deviate from the RAW and allow his BBEG to take both PrC’s and suddenly the party is battling a True Necromancer who’s unleashing his unlimited supply of zombies. This thread would have become another “My DM is Unfair!” whine-fest and someone who will remain nameless would have demanded that the DM become victim of “the hammergun” (or a wet fish). As for asking the DM to explain why he won’t allow the deviation, if he’s willing to offer an explanation, so be it. But I don’t think DMs should be condemned for “arbitrarily” adhering to the RAW. In fact, the onus is on the player to explain why the deviation is a good idea (in this case, it’s a matter of opinion whether Death is a more appropriate domain for the deity in question). If a player requests that I allow him to deviate from the RAW, but there may be consequences neither of us can foresee, I usually decline the request. Oddly enough, I’ve never had a player leave the game over such an issue, nor have any of my players appeared at the table with a hammergun, wet fish, or any similar implement of DM punishment.
ExaltedAbuse 03-24-05, 09:41 AM	There is a feat in complete divine that allows divine casters to pick up an extra domain... Not got the book here though so can't argue about pre-requisites. Sorry. I looked and there doesn't seem to be a feat like that in CD
ExaltedAbuse 03-24-05, 09:52 AM	What ever happened to the days when a DM was applauded for adhering to the RAW? I bend the rules plenty to allow my players to build PCs they will As for asking the DM to explain why he won’t allow the deviation, if he’s willing to offer an explanation, so be it. But I don’t think DMs should be condemned for “arbitrarily” adhering to the RAW. In fact, the onus is on the player to explain why the deviation is a good idea (in this case, it’s a matter of opinion whether Death is a more appropriate domain for the deity in question). If a player requests that I allow him to deviate from the RAW, but there may be consequences neither of us can foresee, I usually decline the request. Oddly enough, I’ve never had a player leave the game over such an issue, nor have any of my players appeared at the table with a hammergun, wet fish, or any similar implement of DM punishment. I completely agree, the main problem is Kiaransalee is a low-powered (compared to say, Nerull) diety and I would argue more of a demi-god like Vecna. Nothing about the god would suggest she has hold over the death portfolio, she may have undeath but when you think about it thats about as different as death is to life. Not only that but death is a huge portfolio to have a hand in, much like the magic domain. Hell, Mystra is a greater god (I think...) and even she can't grant the death domain.
TheRedRobedWizard 03-24-05, 09:58 AM	Complete Divine has a feat called "Extra Domain", but it is an Epic feat, so you're SOL. Personally, I'd go for the True Necromancer over that muchkiny piece of crap FR PrC. Either that, or stop complaining that you can't get BOTH. Go with one or the other, and you'll be better at it. Wizard 3 / Cleric of (Nerul/Vol or whatever FR deity has the Death domain) 3 / True Necromancer 14. The smart money would be on having The Blood of Vol as your deity, since you get access to the Death and Necromancer domains. Necromancer domain gives you all kinds of awesome spells, including Ray of Enfeeblement, Command Undead, and the like. Plus, +1 Caster Level for Necromancy spells. I'd assume this benefit only works for divine spells, but who knows if your DM would allow it to work for arcane too. -TRRW
ExaltedAbuse 03-24-05, 11:08 AM	Complete Divine has a feat called "Extra Domain", but it is an Epic feat, so you're SOL. Ah, thats why I didn't spot it, I didn't bother to look in the Epic feats. Still wouldn't work though as it only gives a domain from one of the ones your diety grants.
Count Arioch the 28th 03-24-05, 11:18 AM	What ever happened to the days when a DM was applauded for adhering to the RAW? You woke up. Seriously, those days never existed at any time in the history of the game.
ShadowDragon8685 03-24-05, 01:56 PM	This is a PrC involved wholely with NECROMANCY of the summoning dead things type. Which is undead. I fail entirely to see why the UNDEAD domain fails to satisfy the spirit of it's requirement, while the plain-jane Death domain, which could mean anything from the undead to making sure that the dead rest in peace, does.
Maerdash 03-24-05, 01:59 PM	Multi class cleric, you worship a greater deity(torm) and a subortinate to that deity(the red knight in the case of torm....or maybe its tempus) any way you just have to find out what god with the death domain is tellin little undeath demi god boy what to do then worship them both via multi classing, thats the only loophole i can think of and its a FR loophole not raw so i could be just blowing hot air lets see what the others think
DM Denubis 03-24-05, 02:22 PM	The RAW state that you can't multiclass into a base class twice, even if it would grant you different abilities. Cleric is even used in the example. The reason why Undeath does not work is that's what it says. Perhaps they'd already thought of this, and specifically made it that way. I'm all for min/maxing, but within the RAW, which doesn't seem to be possible in this situation.
Verenal 03-24-05, 03:43 PM	Take a level of Mystic from Dragonlance Campaign Setting. It gives you one domain and it doesn't require you to worship a deity.
Shandrakor 03-24-05, 07:08 PM	I completely agree, the main problem is Kiaransalee is a low-powered (compared to say, Nerull) diety and I would argue more of a demi-god like Vecna. Nothing about the god would suggest she has hold over the death portfolio, she may have undeath but when you think about it thats about as different as death is to life. Not only that but death is a huge portfolio to have a hand in, much like the magic domain. Hell, Mystra is a greater god (I think...) and even she can't grant the death domain. Kiaransalee was a demigod, who was recently raised to Lesser Deity status (City of the Spider Queen). Mostly I want to play a cleric of hers because I really enjoyed running CotSQ, and would like to play around with an insane Drow goddess of Vengance and Undeath. The smart money would be on having The Blood of Vol as your deity, since you get access to the Death and Necromancer domains. Necromancer domain gives you all kinds of awesome spells, including Ray of Enfeeblement, Command Undead, and the like. Plus, +1 Caster Level for Necromancy spells. I'd assume this benefit only works for divine spells, but who knows if your DM would allow it to work for arcane too. -TRRW The Blood of Vol is from what book? Multi class cleric, you worship a greater deity(torm) and a subortinate to that deity(the red knight in the case of torm....or maybe its tempus) any way you just have to find out what god with the death domain is tellin little undeath demi god boy what to do then worship them both via multi classing, thats the only loophole i can think of and its a FR loophole not raw so i could be just blowing hot air lets see what the others think I like this concept. It's a FR campaign, too, so it just might work. Could you explain the basis of this loophole, and an example please? Thanks for your help everyone. ;) EDIT: Verenal, my DM won't allow stuff from non-DnD or FR books. Thanks for the offer though.
Nedlum 03-24-05, 08:38 PM	Blood of Vol is Eberron. You're in the FR, so I wouldn't pay it any mind.
Shandrakor 03-24-05, 09:24 PM	I like the concept. Since I'm mostly a DM, it looks like the new campaign I'm starting will be in Eberron. =) Thanks! What a NIFTY name!