Dragon confusion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragon confusion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GroundZero0523
03-14-08, 09:50 PM Ok, the SRD labels 'Half-Dragon Racial Paragon' as simply something that eats up levels but gives you great stuff. Ok, I'm cool with that. I use THIS (http://www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm) character generator for most of my builds, and it's got 'Half-Dragon' as a race.

Now, I already know Half-Dragon is a template that can be slapped onto any humanoid.

My confusion comes in this question:

Half-Dragon Racial Paragon + Half-Dragon Race + Half-Dragon Template + Chosen Class?

Am I reading this right? The STR bonuses -alone- are enough to cook my brain :headexplo
Ace_of_time
03-14-08, 10:00 PM Half- dragon is a race. The temp just helps convert the chosen primary race to half dragon. So I don't think you choose it as the race and then add it on again as a templ. Haven't heard of the Racial Paragon. What books/site is that from?
GroundZero0523
03-14-08, 10:07 PM Haven't heard of the Racial Paragon. What books/site is that from?

SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm)

So, I could chose Half-Dragon as my Race, and then, say, put on Half-Celestial as a Template? :eek:
Ace_of_time
03-14-08, 10:26 PM You take the Racial Paragon in place of a level where you would normaly choose a class. Not that great on the rules for adding multi temps but as long as you meet the requirments you should be ale to add both. But you will lose 7 levels for it and I don't think some of the abilities would stack. I would check with your DM first before planning. He could still say no.
GroundZero0523
03-14-08, 10:42 PM Nice! :D I don't think I'll be mixing it with Half-Celestial, but now I need some sort of errata where it states 'Half-Dragon is a base-species as well as a template, but they are the exact same thing, essentially' so my DM wont go 'No' simply on principle.
Ace_of_time
03-14-08, 10:56 PM The SS book has rules on adding more then one templ at a time. You could check there and see if you can make some since. You could ask on CO board but I'll warn you that you might not get the answer you like from them.
GroundZero0523
03-14-08, 11:03 PM You could ask on CO board but I'll warn you that you might not get the answer you like from them.

CO Board? What's that, and why wouldn't I?
NordicBirch
03-15-08, 06:49 AM CO Board? What's that, and why wouldn't I?

Because they know the rules? ;) The Character Optimisation board tends to require a certain level of effort from posters and basic "Build me teh most l337 char, yo" tends to get rather less than cordial response. So they have a reputation for snappishness.

I think your question would fit right in though, they're interested in how different templates work. Half-dragon is IIRC considered too weak to bother with but they'll at least tell you why and how.
Ace_of_time
03-15-08, 10:31 AM D&D Rules, Campaign, and Character Advice Just click on this link at the top of the page. It should be the last link on the page. Lots of pleases and thank yous help alot. Make to be specific as possible and what you want. Any special rules you play with. Maybe a little detail on the party/ world you going to play in.
DrMorganes
03-15-08, 01:33 PM Spare the RSI. Use a direct link (http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21). :D
Maekrix_Waere
03-16-08, 02:32 AM Ok, the SRD labels 'Half-Dragon Racial Paragon' as simply something that eats up levels but gives you great stuff.

Just a small, (somewhat) off topic, IMO note. After looking up the Half Dragon Racial Paragon class, I have to say that taking that is just setting class levels on fire. The first level's bonus is useless, as, unless you're in an Epic Level campaign, you will NOT be a Sorceror as a Half-Dragon (except for flavor at the expense of effectiveness, in which case this class is an excellent way to increase both your meager casting ability and your meager HP total), the second level gives only a decent bonus which can be easily reproduced with feats, and the third level ability is more than replicated by a feat in RotD which lets you use your breath weapon umlimited times per day. The only redeeming feature of the class that I can see is the d12 HD, which is far overshadowed by the earlier mentioned problems.

I guess what I am trying to say is this: Take the template if you want...just...don't take the racial paragon class.

Thus concludes my thread derailment.
GroundZero0523
03-16-08, 02:34 AM and the third level ability is more than replicated by a feat in RotD which lets you use your breath weapon umlimited times per day.

What is RotD? Because if that's a Feat I can just simply blow, -I'll do it-, believe me, I'd rather -not- have 3 levels munched when, yes, the first ability is useless to me.
Shaggy_Shaggs
03-16-08, 02:38 AM What is RotD? Because if that's a Feat I can just simply blow, -I'll do it-, believe me, I'd rather -not- have 3 levels munched when, yes, the first ability is useless to me.

Races of the Dragon, I believe.
Maekrix_Waere
03-16-08, 04:42 AM What is RotD? Because if that's a Feat I can just simply blow, -I'll do it-, believe me, I'd rather -not- have 3 levels munched when, yes, the first ability is useless to me.

As Shaggy said: It is in Races of the Dragon. However, the requirement is 6 HD, so it is going to be unavailable until you get 6 class levels. However, it still doesn't matter, because, unless you get your DM to rule that the Breath Weapon scales like that of the Dragonborn (also from RotD, and one of the few things that might make the Half-Dragon a viable template for its LA), your breath weapon will only really be good 1/day for the first ~2 levels, and by the time you get the feat, it will be completely useless.

However, a feat that WOULD be a good investment would be the Dragon Wings feat (Only available at level 1) which gives you a glide speed and is a prerequisite for Improved Dragon Wings (once again, which requires 6 HD), which gives you a fly speed.
However, for that, your better off making a Wood Elf Dragonborn (+0 LA, +2 Str, -2 Int) and taking it as your 1st level feat. Then you get the option to choose from a SCALING breath weapon aspect or an aspect which grants both Darkvision and Blindsense.
However, your STILL better off taking the scaling breath weapon, because you can purchase Permanancied spells which grant the same Darkvision and DOUBLE the Blindsense for ~66,000gp...or get it from the party Wizard for free.

If you want me to discuss this more at length with you (I might even be able to give you a build, depending on what you're looking for and what books you have available), Private Message me and I'll discuss it with you.
Ace_of_time
03-16-08, 01:20 PM What is RotD? Because if that's a Feat I can just simply blow, -I'll do it-, believe me, I'd rather -not- have 3 levels munched when, yes, the first ability is useless to me.
I beleive all you need is 6HD.
Maekrix_Waere
03-16-08, 02:25 PM I beleive all you need is 6HD.

Beat you by 9 hours. ;)
Ace_of_time
03-16-08, 02:45 PM Beat you by 9 hours. ;):rofl: I posted that before I scolled down. by then it was to late. Haven't had time to post. the smiles yet. so here you are.

:( :bigeyes: :raincloud :ghosted:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GroundZero0523 03-14-08, 09:50 PM	Ok, the SRD labels 'Half-Dragon Racial Paragon' as simply something that eats up levels but gives you great stuff. Ok, I'm cool with that. I use THIS (http://www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm) character generator for most of my builds, and it's got 'Half-Dragon' as a race. Now, I already know Half-Dragon is a template that can be slapped onto any humanoid. My confusion comes in this question: Half-Dragon Racial Paragon + Half-Dragon Race + Half-Dragon Template + Chosen Class? Am I reading this right? The STR bonuses -alone- are enough to cook my brain :headexplo
Ace_of_time 03-14-08, 10:00 PM	Half- dragon is a race. The temp just helps convert the chosen primary race to half dragon. So I don't think you choose it as the race and then add it on again as a templ. Haven't heard of the Racial Paragon. What books/site is that from?
GroundZero0523 03-14-08, 10:07 PM	Haven't heard of the Racial Paragon. What books/site is that from? SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm) So, I could chose Half-Dragon as my Race, and then, say, put on Half-Celestial as a Template? :eek:
Ace_of_time 03-14-08, 10:26 PM	You take the Racial Paragon in place of a level where you would normaly choose a class. Not that great on the rules for adding multi temps but as long as you meet the requirments you should be ale to add both. But you will lose 7 levels for it and I don't think some of the abilities would stack. I would check with your DM first before planning. He could still say no.
GroundZero0523 03-14-08, 10:42 PM	Nice! :D I don't think I'll be mixing it with Half-Celestial, but now I need some sort of errata where it states 'Half-Dragon is a base-species as well as a template, but they are the exact same thing, essentially' so my DM wont go 'No' simply on principle.
Ace_of_time 03-14-08, 10:56 PM	The SS book has rules on adding more then one templ at a time. You could check there and see if you can make some since. You could ask on CO board but I'll warn you that you might not get the answer you like from them.
GroundZero0523 03-14-08, 11:03 PM	You could ask on CO board but I'll warn you that you might not get the answer you like from them. CO Board? What's that, and why wouldn't I?
NordicBirch 03-15-08, 06:49 AM	CO Board? What's that, and why wouldn't I? Because they know the rules? ;) The Character Optimisation board tends to require a certain level of effort from posters and basic "Build me teh most l337 char, yo" tends to get rather less than cordial response. So they have a reputation for snappishness. I think your question would fit right in though, they're interested in how different templates work. Half-dragon is IIRC considered too weak to bother with but they'll at least tell you why and how.
Ace_of_time 03-15-08, 10:31 AM	D&D Rules, Campaign, and Character Advice Just click on this link at the top of the page. It should be the last link on the page. Lots of pleases and thank yous help alot. Make to be specific as possible and what you want. Any special rules you play with. Maybe a little detail on the party/ world you going to play in.
DrMorganes 03-15-08, 01:33 PM	Spare the RSI. Use a direct link (http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21). :D
Maekrix_Waere 03-16-08, 02:32 AM	Ok, the SRD labels 'Half-Dragon Racial Paragon' as simply something that eats up levels but gives you great stuff. Just a small, (somewhat) off topic, IMO note. After looking up the Half Dragon Racial Paragon class, I have to say that taking that is just setting class levels on fire. The first level's bonus is useless, as, unless you're in an Epic Level campaign, you will NOT be a Sorceror as a Half-Dragon (except for flavor at the expense of effectiveness, in which case this class is an excellent way to increase both your meager casting ability and your meager HP total), the second level gives only a decent bonus which can be easily reproduced with feats, and the third level ability is more than replicated by a feat in RotD which lets you use your breath weapon umlimited times per day. The only redeeming feature of the class that I can see is the d12 HD, which is far overshadowed by the earlier mentioned problems. I guess what I am trying to say is this: Take the template if you want...just...don't take the racial paragon class. Thus concludes my thread derailment.
GroundZero0523 03-16-08, 02:34 AM	and the third level ability is more than replicated by a feat in RotD which lets you use your breath weapon umlimited times per day. What is RotD? Because if that's a Feat I can just simply blow, -I'll do it-, believe me, I'd rather -not- have 3 levels munched when, yes, the first ability is useless to me.
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-16-08, 02:38 AM	What is RotD? Because if that's a Feat I can just simply blow, -I'll do it-, believe me, I'd rather -not- have 3 levels munched when, yes, the first ability is useless to me. Races of the Dragon, I believe.
Maekrix_Waere 03-16-08, 04:42 AM	What is RotD? Because if that's a Feat I can just simply blow, -I'll do it-, believe me, I'd rather -not- have 3 levels munched when, yes, the first ability is useless to me. As Shaggy said: It is in Races of the Dragon. However, the requirement is 6 HD, so it is going to be unavailable until you get 6 class levels. However, it still doesn't matter, because, unless you get your DM to rule that the Breath Weapon scales like that of the Dragonborn (also from RotD, and one of the few things that might make the Half-Dragon a viable template for its LA), your breath weapon will only really be good 1/day for the first ~2 levels, and by the time you get the feat, it will be completely useless. However, a feat that WOULD be a good investment would be the Dragon Wings feat (Only available at level 1) which gives you a glide speed and is a prerequisite for Improved Dragon Wings (once again, which requires 6 HD), which gives you a fly speed. However, for that, your better off making a Wood Elf Dragonborn (+0 LA, +2 Str, -2 Int) and taking it as your 1st level feat. Then you get the option to choose from a SCALING breath weapon aspect or an aspect which grants both Darkvision and Blindsense. However, your STILL better off taking the scaling breath weapon, because you can purchase Permanancied spells which grant the same Darkvision and DOUBLE the Blindsense for ~66,000gp...or get it from the party Wizard for free. If you want me to discuss this more at length with you (I might even be able to give you a build, depending on what you're looking for and what books you have available), Private Message me and I'll discuss it with you.
Ace_of_time 03-16-08, 01:20 PM	What is RotD? Because if that's a Feat I can just simply blow, -I'll do it-, believe me, I'd rather -not- have 3 levels munched when, yes, the first ability is useless to me. I beleive all you need is 6HD.
Maekrix_Waere 03-16-08, 02:25 PM	I beleive all you need is 6HD. Beat you by 9 hours. ;)
Ace_of_time 03-16-08, 02:45 PM	Beat you by 9 hours. ;):rofl: I posted that before I scolled down. by then it was to late. Haven't had time to post. the smiles yet. so here you are. :( :bigeyes: :raincloud :ghosted: