Dragon feats available to players? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragon feats available to players? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Satans Spawn
11-19-04, 04:24 AM A little while ago I was playing in a dragon related campaign where our entire party got bonded with dragons. It was a fun campaign and I wish it didn't have to end, but that is not the point of my post. The point of my post is to ask if player can get the dragon feats in the Draconomicon in the dragon feats section.

I had taken a prestige class from the Miniatures handbook (Dragon Samurai) which gave me a breath weapon. I had intended on taking a few breath weapon feats (Shape Breath, and others to that extent) but my DM said that they were unavailable to me due to the fact that they were in the dragon section of the book. Although I argued with the point that the only pre-requiments for the feats were to have a breath weapon.
Morwen
11-19-04, 06:27 AM If you have the required prerequisites, you should be able to take the feats. The reason they're in the Dragon Feats section of the book is because they're most normally used for Dragons and other creatures with innate breath weapon capabilities (such as Hell Hounds, as the section indicates can take a Metabreath Feat).

However, in order to take a Metabreath Feat, you must have a breath weapon whose time between breaths is expressed in rounds, such as 1d4 rounds between breaths. Since the Dragon Samurai's breath weapon is once per day, you can't use Metabreath Feats to enhance it.
trapspringer
11-19-04, 05:19 PM It is also worth noting that many of those feats require "Type: (Any Dragon)."
Capt. Pixel
11-19-04, 05:21 PM It is also worth noting that many of those feats require "Type: (Any Dragon)."

I would assume that includes and 1/2 dragon as well. (at least my NPC badguy 1/2 dragons get to use them. :cool: )
obrysii
11-19-04, 07:01 PM However, in order to take a Metabreath Feat, you must have a breath weapon whose time between breaths is expressed in rounds, such as 1d4 rounds between breaths.

That's the beauty of the Talon of Tiamat. While each breath weapon is useable only once per day, they must wait 1d4 rounds inbetween each of the breath weapon types, which technically qualitifies them for Metabreath feats.
DM Zoc
11-19-04, 07:34 PM Likewise, a half-dragon paragon can use a breath weapon for a total of three times per day, but must wait 1d4 rounds between breaths. On the last breath of the day, might as well load up on it, eh?
obrysii
11-19-04, 11:58 PM Yep!
trapspringer
11-21-04, 06:28 PM Yes, they gain the dragon type, and are considered a 'dragon.'
Darth K'Trava
11-22-04, 03:23 PM I would assume that includes and 1/2 dragon as well. (at least my NPC badguy 1/2 dragons get to use them. :cool: )

However, half dragons only get that breath weapon once per day. I have a half silver dragon paladin who only has it once per day. And I sometimes forget to use it as I'm not 100% sure when to use it (as using it on something that isn't cold resistant/immune) so I don't waste it.
Ualaa
11-22-04, 09:03 PM If you meet all the requirements for a feat, by the rules as written (RAW) you can take the feat.

The DM is free to house-rule that you cannot take a given feat, class, prestige class, skill or whatever, but that is a variation on the standard rules and not part of the RAW.
Morwen
11-22-04, 09:51 PM If you meet all the requirements for a feat, by the rules as written (RAW) you can take the feat.

Yep. Of course, according to the RAW, the OP can't take a Metabreath feat since his breath weapon doesn't have a time between breaths expressed in rounds.
spasheridan
11-23-04, 07:36 PM RAW don't say if a given book has to be included in a game. Just because WoTC comes out with the Dragonomicon ... that doesn't mean that suddenly all of the material in the book is in the game.

The key issue here is balance folks. Not RAW. New books have a small (or not so small) chance to contain a few key ... broken spells. Like say divine metamagic or shivering touch. Or energy missile. OR.. well, you get the idea. When a book comes out it's up to the DM to allow / disallow the book or allow / disallow certain sections of the book.

If the DM says "Dragonomicon is a great book for dragons, but not for players" then that's the way it is.
Darth K'Trava
11-24-04, 07:35 PM Then point out the dragon-related feats from Complete Arcane! :devil:
DM Zoc
11-24-04, 08:55 PM Yep. Of course, according to the RAW, the OP can't take a Metabreath feat since his breath weapon doesn't have a time between breaths expressed in rounds.What's an OP?
allenchan
11-24-04, 09:01 PM Then point out the dragon-related feats from Complete Arcane! :devil:

Those are Draconic feats, not Dragon feats. Very big difference
Morwen
11-24-04, 10:46 PM What's an OP?
The Original Poster :)
oneday
11-24-04, 11:30 PM OP is that little boy from the Andy Griffith show. :D
DM Zoc
11-25-04, 01:53 AM Right, then. Dragon Samurai can't take Dragon feats because they don't meet the requirements, not because there is anything special about Dragon feats.
obrysii
11-25-04, 09:59 AM Right, then. Dragon Samurai can't take Dragon feats because they don't meet the requirements, not because there is anything special about Dragon feats.

Though fear a pyroclastic dragon with heightened and lingering breath.

A cloud of disinigration with a redicularously high fort negate DC, anyone?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Satans Spawn 11-19-04, 04:24 AM	A little while ago I was playing in a dragon related campaign where our entire party got bonded with dragons. It was a fun campaign and I wish it didn't have to end, but that is not the point of my post. The point of my post is to ask if player can get the dragon feats in the Draconomicon in the dragon feats section. I had taken a prestige class from the Miniatures handbook (Dragon Samurai) which gave me a breath weapon. I had intended on taking a few breath weapon feats (Shape Breath, and others to that extent) but my DM said that they were unavailable to me due to the fact that they were in the dragon section of the book. Although I argued with the point that the only pre-requiments for the feats were to have a breath weapon.
Morwen 11-19-04, 06:27 AM	If you have the required prerequisites, you should be able to take the feats. The reason they're in the Dragon Feats section of the book is because they're most normally used for Dragons and other creatures with innate breath weapon capabilities (such as Hell Hounds, as the section indicates can take a Metabreath Feat). However, in order to take a Metabreath Feat, you must have a breath weapon whose time between breaths is expressed in rounds, such as 1d4 rounds between breaths. Since the Dragon Samurai's breath weapon is once per day, you can't use Metabreath Feats to enhance it.
trapspringer 11-19-04, 05:19 PM	It is also worth noting that many of those feats require "Type: (Any Dragon)."
Capt. Pixel 11-19-04, 05:21 PM	It is also worth noting that many of those feats require "Type: (Any Dragon)." I would assume that includes and 1/2 dragon as well. (at least my NPC badguy 1/2 dragons get to use them. :cool: )
obrysii 11-19-04, 07:01 PM	However, in order to take a Metabreath Feat, you must have a breath weapon whose time between breaths is expressed in rounds, such as 1d4 rounds between breaths. That's the beauty of the Talon of Tiamat. While each breath weapon is useable only once per day, they must wait 1d4 rounds inbetween each of the breath weapon types, which technically qualitifies them for Metabreath feats.
DM Zoc 11-19-04, 07:34 PM	Likewise, a half-dragon paragon can use a breath weapon for a total of three times per day, but must wait 1d4 rounds between breaths. On the last breath of the day, might as well load up on it, eh?
obrysii 11-19-04, 11:58 PM	Yep!
trapspringer 11-21-04, 06:28 PM	Yes, they gain the dragon type, and are considered a 'dragon.'
Darth K'Trava 11-22-04, 03:23 PM	I would assume that includes and 1/2 dragon as well. (at least my NPC badguy 1/2 dragons get to use them. :cool: ) However, half dragons only get that breath weapon once per day. I have a half silver dragon paladin who only has it once per day. And I sometimes forget to use it as I'm not 100% sure when to use it (as using it on something that isn't cold resistant/immune) so I don't waste it.
Ualaa 11-22-04, 09:03 PM	If you meet all the requirements for a feat, by the rules as written (RAW) you can take the feat. The DM is free to house-rule that you cannot take a given feat, class, prestige class, skill or whatever, but that is a variation on the standard rules and not part of the RAW.
Morwen 11-22-04, 09:51 PM	If you meet all the requirements for a feat, by the rules as written (RAW) you can take the feat. Yep. Of course, according to the RAW, the OP can't take a Metabreath feat since his breath weapon doesn't have a time between breaths expressed in rounds.
spasheridan 11-23-04, 07:36 PM	RAW don't say if a given book has to be included in a game. Just because WoTC comes out with the Dragonomicon ... that doesn't mean that suddenly all of the material in the book is in the game. The key issue here is balance folks. Not RAW. New books have a small (or not so small) chance to contain a few key ... broken spells. Like say divine metamagic or shivering touch. Or energy missile. OR.. well, you get the idea. When a book comes out it's up to the DM to allow / disallow the book or allow / disallow certain sections of the book. If the DM says "Dragonomicon is a great book for dragons, but not for players" then that's the way it is.
Darth K'Trava 11-24-04, 07:35 PM	Then point out the dragon-related feats from Complete Arcane! :devil:
DM Zoc 11-24-04, 08:55 PM	Yep. Of course, according to the RAW, the OP can't take a Metabreath feat since his breath weapon doesn't have a time between breaths expressed in rounds.What's an OP?
allenchan 11-24-04, 09:01 PM	Then point out the dragon-related feats from Complete Arcane! :devil: Those are Draconic feats, not Dragon feats. Very big difference
Morwen 11-24-04, 10:46 PM	What's an OP? The Original Poster :)
oneday 11-24-04, 11:30 PM	OP is that little boy from the Andy Griffith show. :D
DM Zoc 11-25-04, 01:53 AM	Right, then. Dragon Samurai can't take Dragon feats because they don't meet the requirements, not because there is anything special about Dragon feats.
obrysii 11-25-04, 09:59 AM	Right, then. Dragon Samurai can't take Dragon feats because they don't meet the requirements, not because there is anything special about Dragon feats. Though fear a pyroclastic dragon with heightened and lingering breath. A cloud of disinigration with a redicularously high fort negate DC, anyone?