Dragon Help. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragon Help. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ragey
06-15-05, 11:36 PM I've always loved dragons, in my second campaign I was actually allowed to play a rarity, a good White Dragon.

I have played many campaigns after that and the newest one I'm in, during a spy action with a few other players, I visited a Slave Shop, to see if I had enough money to buy slaves and free them. There was only one slave in the place, who I found out after taking her and freeing her that she was a Wyrmling Gold Dragon.

I adopted her (My characters a father! Aww... Elf Fighter level 9 now). My DM is going to let me level her up with the help of my military fund.

I have three questions:

1. Dragons have age category leveling up. Do they also level up outside of that? Like, can a Gold dragon be a level one Wizard and level up accordingly?

2. I plan to buy the Draconomicon only if it has two things: The Rules of creating a Hoard and Classes for Dragons, does it?

3. What do you suggest I do with the little Gold Dragon? Any paths you think is the right way. And what about me? I hear that the Draconomicon has prestige classes for players that are akin to dragons. Is there any path I could take that could strengthen myself?

My campaign is very 'Money Heavy'. Infact, at the moment, my character has over 50,000 gold. I have now found out, many of the characters on my team are far more powerful then I, but I just don't want to waste money on that, I'm not in a hurry to become uber, I just want to go with my character, who is, like I am, a fan of Dragons.
Derren S.
06-16-05, 02:47 AM 1. Dragons have age category leveling up. Do they also level up outside of that? Like, can a Gold dragon be a level one Wizard and level up accordingly?

Yes, they can level up normally.
And every sorcerer level they take stack with their innate spellcasting.

2. I plan to buy the Draconomicon only if it has two things: The Rules of creating a Hoard and Classes for Dragons, does it?

It has rules for randomly generating hordes, but hords are simply a collection of money and items like a normal treasure. Hoards have no special effects on dragons.
And it has PRC for dragons (only high level ones) but no normal classes. (But see 1. for why)

3. What do you suggest I do with the little Gold Dragon? Any paths you think is the right way. And what about me? I hear that the Draconomicon has prestige classes for players that are akin to dragons. Is there any path I could take that could strengthen myself?

Whatever the wyrmling wants to do. Its probably smarter than half of the party. When it thinks it is better off alone then let her go (That is rather normal as dragon eggs are often abandoned). If she wants to stay, do whatever you think is right and she agrees with it.

Considering the money you have (and will get) buying her (and yourself) into nobility might be interesting. Gold dragon with their alignment and intelligence make very good leaders and political powers.

It mainly depends on as what the dragon sees you. Does teh dragon see you as foster parent, protector or just rescuer? As rescuer the dragon will probably be thankful, but nothing more and will probably leave. As defender the dragon will follow you but don't take orders, only suggestions.
It also determines which responsibilities you have. When you are the foster parent you have to raise her, as protector you can only influence her.

I don't know how the imprisonment affectet her. She could either, against her draconic nature, seek out others for company/protection or want to distance herself from others.
Either way you have to respect that. Dragons, even young ones are very proud creatures don't forget that. That the dragon has a paladin like outlook doesn't make it easier.

If she accepts you as parent, don't be shy to make a strict set of rules she has to follow. As long as the rules are good and reasonable, and doesn't injure her ego she should gladly follow them.
snowlynx
06-16-05, 11:15 AM If you're going to keep this draconic cohort in the group, I would suggest getting the draconomicon merely because it puts in information like how to level up the dragon in small parts as it ages.

There are PrCs for dragon characters in the book, but most seem to require epic level dragons (one has a base attack bonus prereq of +20!) However, dragons can take normal classes and normal prestige classes, and, due to their hit dice and eventual caster level, may qualify for prestige classes without taking base classes. The draconomicon suggests what magic items they can use and what they can and cannot do; which is very useful when a dragon is in the group and will therefore be using many of its abilities.
Derren S.
06-16-05, 12:21 PM I forgot, on of the best ways to get the friendship of a dragon are gifts, so give her some gifts but by no means let them look like you are bribing her. Gold dragons hate this immensly.

The sort of the gifts are a bit hard to determine. As she has no lair (see below) something consumable (don't forget gems are very delicious consumables to dragons) or something to carry on the body would be best. But don't give her necklaces or bracelets as she might have had bad experiences with collars and shakles while she was captured. It would also nice if she could wear those gifts in dragon or in human form.

The best gift of course would be a lair (and, if possible, should be one of the first). Depending on your group you have to stretch the term "lair" a bit. Either a private room in your homebase or even only a own coach. Simply a room for her alone where no one, not even you, might enter without her permission.

But don't overdo it, the last thing you need is a spoiled dragon.
Black Knight Geno
06-16-05, 12:51 PM On #1...

Yes, dragons can level up by classes out side of the age catergory. But instead of wizard, take sorcerer so that she adds her inate sorcerer levels to actual sorcerer levels.

On #2...
While it does touch on hoard creation, it can be summed up simply by saying that it is whatever a creature of their CR would have plus/multiplied by. It does have unique dragon prestige classes, but they can take normal PHB classes.

On #3...
Figure out what she considers you to be, her protector, savior, hero, foster parent, lover, mate, WHATEVER (not really last two, she is WAY to young). Then let her make her own decision. If she decides to help the group, great but make sure that she also understands the group dynamics and why it is that way. If she decides to leave, LET HER GO. A friendly free dragon is a h%!l of alot better than an unhappy dragon in the party. It is almost as bad as having a BBEG in the party.

Just my two cents on the subject. :twocents:
Ragey
06-17-05, 11:28 AM I checked with my DM and she apparently thinks of me as a Foster Parent, so I'm good as gold there. (She hangs off my characters back most of the time for fun, but usually follows quietly.)

I had already given her a gift when I first met her. She was in rags, so I had bought her clothing with glamer. So that she may pick what she'll wear and not be stuck in the same thing forever.

I don't know if I want to give her sorcerer levels because I'm unsure if she'll be growing at anytime during the entire compaign. If she will, I will go with that. If she did, she could probably take a Arcane Prestige class rather quickly (Don't know which though, as I said I'm a Elf Fighter, and I'm usually a magicless class.)

I'm probably going to take Dragonkith as a Prestige class. The Mighty Strike and Natural AC is nice, it'll also help if she's ever seperated and needs to call me.

1. If the dragon may never grow in age during the campaign, what class do you suggest?
Derren S.
06-17-05, 05:32 PM Do you have complete control over the dragon or does the DM play her? From how you write about her and your plans it sounds like the first one which is a shame because this is a great RP opportunity.

One question, does she preffer to stay in human or in dragon form? Also what is her human form? Also a child or an adult?

I would really advise to plan the advancment according to her personality (Rping, you know). But when you ask for a effective class, stay away from caster. Even when she ages in the campaign she will never catch up with her spell level to make her effective. The best would be a melee class (fighter or paladin, maybe PRCing) or rogue (good because dragons have many attacks).

It also depends if she mostly stays in human or in dragon form.

And did I understans "Hangs from my characters back" right that you are carring her? You must be very strong because a wyrmling gold dragon weights 320 lb and is 16 ft. long.
Ragey
06-17-05, 06:11 PM *laughs* I meant in human form, but my character actually has QUITE high strength, enough to actually lift over 4,000 pounds at the moment.

I know, its sort of sad that she isn't RP'd by the DM, I thgouth he would, but he only really RP's what he wants to, other then that, I have full control of the Dragons development, personality, and so on. Even her alternate form was picked by me.

I've tried to have him RP her out, but he seems to not really give a damn...

I named her Anita Amaera (she took my characters last name). She takes the form of a young, small Half Elf whom my character, as you said, has given her a extra room which is hers and hers alone. My character had recieved gifts from someone he saved, which he gave one to her (A Mithril Shirt), and bought a Great Sword.

She mostly stays in human form because the area my character is in, Gold Dragons are a rarity, and we don't want her being taken again.

Perhaps a Paladin is a nice choice for her.
Derren S.
06-18-05, 02:59 AM I don't think a greatsword is the right weapon for her.
First it will look strange seeing a young half elven maid running around with a greatsword, second she hasn't the strength to use one effectivly (Str 10) and she is only proficient with simple weapons.

And I totally forgot, monk is a great class for dragons. They have a higher attack bonus because of their full BAB through racial HD, the saves stack nicely and they can use their special abilities and combat styles in both human and dragon form.

Especially in dragon form a monk dragon is deadly because he gets all his natural attacks + all his monk attacks (no flurry).

Evasion an poison immunity are also not bad because area effects and poison are widely used tactics against a dragon. An their wis bonus to AC to raise their touch AC also helps.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ragey 06-15-05, 11:36 PM	I've always loved dragons, in my second campaign I was actually allowed to play a rarity, a good White Dragon. I have played many campaigns after that and the newest one I'm in, during a spy action with a few other players, I visited a Slave Shop, to see if I had enough money to buy slaves and free them. There was only one slave in the place, who I found out after taking her and freeing her that she was a Wyrmling Gold Dragon. I adopted her (My characters a father! Aww... Elf Fighter level 9 now). My DM is going to let me level her up with the help of my military fund. I have three questions: 1. Dragons have age category leveling up. Do they also level up outside of that? Like, can a Gold dragon be a level one Wizard and level up accordingly? 2. I plan to buy the Draconomicon only if it has two things: The Rules of creating a Hoard and Classes for Dragons, does it? 3. What do you suggest I do with the little Gold Dragon? Any paths you think is the right way. And what about me? I hear that the Draconomicon has prestige classes for players that are akin to dragons. Is there any path I could take that could strengthen myself? My campaign is very 'Money Heavy'. Infact, at the moment, my character has over 50,000 gold. I have now found out, many of the characters on my team are far more powerful then I, but I just don't want to waste money on that, I'm not in a hurry to become uber, I just want to go with my character, who is, like I am, a fan of Dragons.
Derren S. 06-16-05, 02:47 AM	1. Dragons have age category leveling up. Do they also level up outside of that? Like, can a Gold dragon be a level one Wizard and level up accordingly? Yes, they can level up normally. And every sorcerer level they take stack with their innate spellcasting. 2. I plan to buy the Draconomicon only if it has two things: The Rules of creating a Hoard and Classes for Dragons, does it? It has rules for randomly generating hordes, but hords are simply a collection of money and items like a normal treasure. Hoards have no special effects on dragons. And it has PRC for dragons (only high level ones) but no normal classes. (But see 1. for why) 3. What do you suggest I do with the little Gold Dragon? Any paths you think is the right way. And what about me? I hear that the Draconomicon has prestige classes for players that are akin to dragons. Is there any path I could take that could strengthen myself? Whatever the wyrmling wants to do. Its probably smarter than half of the party. When it thinks it is better off alone then let her go (That is rather normal as dragon eggs are often abandoned). If she wants to stay, do whatever you think is right and she agrees with it. Considering the money you have (and will get) buying her (and yourself) into nobility might be interesting. Gold dragon with their alignment and intelligence make very good leaders and political powers. It mainly depends on as what the dragon sees you. Does teh dragon see you as foster parent, protector or just rescuer? As rescuer the dragon will probably be thankful, but nothing more and will probably leave. As defender the dragon will follow you but don't take orders, only suggestions. It also determines which responsibilities you have. When you are the foster parent you have to raise her, as protector you can only influence her. I don't know how the imprisonment affectet her. She could either, against her draconic nature, seek out others for company/protection or want to distance herself from others. Either way you have to respect that. Dragons, even young ones are very proud creatures don't forget that. That the dragon has a paladin like outlook doesn't make it easier. If she accepts you as parent, don't be shy to make a strict set of rules she has to follow. As long as the rules are good and reasonable, and doesn't injure her ego she should gladly follow them.
snowlynx 06-16-05, 11:15 AM	If you're going to keep this draconic cohort in the group, I would suggest getting the draconomicon merely because it puts in information like how to level up the dragon in small parts as it ages. There are PrCs for dragon characters in the book, but most seem to require epic level dragons (one has a base attack bonus prereq of +20!) However, dragons can take normal classes and normal prestige classes, and, due to their hit dice and eventual caster level, may qualify for prestige classes without taking base classes. The draconomicon suggests what magic items they can use and what they can and cannot do; which is very useful when a dragon is in the group and will therefore be using many of its abilities.
Derren S. 06-16-05, 12:21 PM	I forgot, on of the best ways to get the friendship of a dragon are gifts, so give her some gifts but by no means let them look like you are bribing her. Gold dragons hate this immensly. The sort of the gifts are a bit hard to determine. As she has no lair (see below) something consumable (don't forget gems are very delicious consumables to dragons) or something to carry on the body would be best. But don't give her necklaces or bracelets as she might have had bad experiences with collars and shakles while she was captured. It would also nice if she could wear those gifts in dragon or in human form. The best gift of course would be a lair (and, if possible, should be one of the first). Depending on your group you have to stretch the term "lair" a bit. Either a private room in your homebase or even only a own coach. Simply a room for her alone where no one, not even you, might enter without her permission. But don't overdo it, the last thing you need is a spoiled dragon.
Black Knight Geno 06-16-05, 12:51 PM	On #1... Yes, dragons can level up by classes out side of the age catergory. But instead of wizard, take sorcerer so that she adds her inate sorcerer levels to actual sorcerer levels. On #2... While it does touch on hoard creation, it can be summed up simply by saying that it is whatever a creature of their CR would have plus/multiplied by. It does have unique dragon prestige classes, but they can take normal PHB classes. On #3... Figure out what she considers you to be, her protector, savior, hero, foster parent, lover, mate, WHATEVER (not really last two, she is WAY to young). Then let her make her own decision. If she decides to help the group, great but make sure that she also understands the group dynamics and why it is that way. If she decides to leave, LET HER GO. A friendly free dragon is a h%!l of alot better than an unhappy dragon in the party. It is almost as bad as having a BBEG in the party. Just my two cents on the subject. :twocents:
Ragey 06-17-05, 11:28 AM	I checked with my DM and she apparently thinks of me as a Foster Parent, so I'm good as gold there. (She hangs off my characters back most of the time for fun, but usually follows quietly.) I had already given her a gift when I first met her. She was in rags, so I had bought her clothing with glamer. So that she may pick what she'll wear and not be stuck in the same thing forever. I don't know if I want to give her sorcerer levels because I'm unsure if she'll be growing at anytime during the entire compaign. If she will, I will go with that. If she did, she could probably take a Arcane Prestige class rather quickly (Don't know which though, as I said I'm a Elf Fighter, and I'm usually a magicless class.) I'm probably going to take Dragonkith as a Prestige class. The Mighty Strike and Natural AC is nice, it'll also help if she's ever seperated and needs to call me. 1. If the dragon may never grow in age during the campaign, what class do you suggest?
Derren S. 06-17-05, 05:32 PM	Do you have complete control over the dragon or does the DM play her? From how you write about her and your plans it sounds like the first one which is a shame because this is a great RP opportunity. One question, does she preffer to stay in human or in dragon form? Also what is her human form? Also a child or an adult? I would really advise to plan the advancment according to her personality (Rping, you know). But when you ask for a effective class, stay away from caster. Even when she ages in the campaign she will never catch up with her spell level to make her effective. The best would be a melee class (fighter or paladin, maybe PRCing) or rogue (good because dragons have many attacks). It also depends if she mostly stays in human or in dragon form. And did I understans "Hangs from my characters back" right that you are carring her? You must be very strong because a wyrmling gold dragon weights 320 lb and is 16 ft. long.
Ragey 06-17-05, 06:11 PM	laughs I meant in human form, but my character actually has QUITE high strength, enough to actually lift over 4,000 pounds at the moment. I know, its sort of sad that she isn't RP'd by the DM, I thgouth he would, but he only really RP's what he wants to, other then that, I have full control of the Dragons development, personality, and so on. Even her alternate form was picked by me. I've tried to have him RP her out, but he seems to not really give a damn... I named her Anita Amaera (she took my characters last name). She takes the form of a young, small Half Elf whom my character, as you said, has given her a extra room which is hers and hers alone. My character had recieved gifts from someone he saved, which he gave one to her (A Mithril Shirt), and bought a Great Sword. She mostly stays in human form because the area my character is in, Gold Dragons are a rarity, and we don't want her being taken again. Perhaps a Paladin is a nice choice for her.
Derren S. 06-18-05, 02:59 AM	I don't think a greatsword is the right weapon for her. First it will look strange seeing a young half elven maid running around with a greatsword, second she hasn't the strength to use one effectivly (Str 10) and she is only proficient with simple weapons. And I totally forgot, monk is a great class for dragons. They have a higher attack bonus because of their full BAB through racial HD, the saves stack nicely and they can use their special abilities and combat styles in both human and dragon form. Especially in dragon form a monk dragon is deadly because he gets all his natural attacks + all his monk attacks (no flurry). Evasion an poison immunity are also not bad because area effects and poison are widely used tactics against a dragon. An their wis bonus to AC to raise their touch AC also helps.