Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kyeudo 12-11-06, 01:47 PM	Im in a game thats set in the forgotton realms. After a brief encounter with some well equipped orc pirates and a trip into Undermountain, our group has made it to level 6. However, we have found that anything under CR 10 dies in under 2 rounds. The DM has taken to throwing CR 12 dragons at us, since those take us 3-5 rounds to kill, and we don't take much damage from them. This seems to be highly unusual to me, and disrupts what realism there once was. Is this a common thing?
Tanus 12-11-06, 02:01 PM	Yes, your DM is doing something very wrong. He is either giving out way too much treasure, or not playing the monsters to their full CR.
IdleAltruism 12-11-06, 02:02 PM	How many people are in your party? Are you using any variant rules like gestalt? How much magical gear does the party have?
kyeudo 12-11-06, 02:13 PM	There are an average pf 6 people in the party, although the full party roster is close to 12. We have alot of irregulars in the party. We dont have any variant rules going on, and I'm not sure how much magic items we have. I have a couple of half charged staves, gloves of dexterity +6, a +1 magic weapon, and +1 armor, with everyone else having somewhat less treasure, since they dont get stuff on days they arn't there. BTW, whats the price on a ring of protection +6?
Tanus 12-11-06, 02:20 PM	Just the gloves alone are about 36,000 gold...soo....the problem is your DM is giving out way too much treasue.
Derren S. 12-11-06, 02:22 PM	That game is completly out of control. Too many players, too much treasure and probably a inexperienced DM.
IdleAltruism 12-11-06, 02:24 PM	A ring of protection +6 is worth 720,000..... you shouldn't have any staffs lol. Yeah your dm gives way to much treasure.
kyeudo 12-11-06, 02:40 PM	He's says hes been playing D&D since first edition. I was figuring that he was handing out too much treasure when the monk hit an AC of 34 at 6th level. It seemed a little much.
Lord Karsus 12-11-06, 06:49 PM	He's says hes been playing D&D since first edition. I was figuring that he was handing out too much treasure when the monk hit an AC of 34 at 6th level. It seemed a little much. -Wow. Just wow. I've had a thirteenth level fighter who quite often missed ACs in the Mid-Twenties.
Morwen 12-11-06, 06:58 PM	I suggest you talk to the DM about his treasure-giving. Tell him to look at the "Character Wealth by Level" table in the DMG, page 54; A 6th level character should on average have gear and other treasure worth 6665 gold if sold. If he agrees that he has been giving out too much, offer the solution that the party is raided by invisible thieves in the night or something, making off with most of the really overpowered items. Maybe not an ideal solution, but the best I could come up with right now, apart from starting over...
Greenstone 12-11-06, 07:04 PM	Yor DM is definetly giving out too much high powered treasure. Although a group of 12 is a lot you said that normally there are only about 6 playing so a party avg. level of 6 with 6 PC's should be able to handle most 10CR modestly, but not in 2 rounds. So your DM is also not playing the monsters to their full CR potential. Morwen is correct - check the chart and find a solution, otherwise everyone will get bored Fast!!
Boid 12-11-06, 07:09 PM	If he agrees that he has been giving out too much, offer the solution that the party is raided by invisible thieves in the night or something, making off with most of the really overpowered items. Maybe not an ideal solution, but the best I could come up with right now, apart from starting over... My DM did this to us, but it was the right thing to do. We were blinding low-level spellcasters when they had Detect Magic going. I lost some very treasured items in that "raid", and I've told the DM that as soon as the main campaign is done (see my thread re: a fight against 2 Wyrms), I want to start a side-quest to locate each and every item taken. We were pushovers at level 10; let's see how the bandits like us at level 19. 'Cause, you know, bandits never level up... :)
Haida 12-12-06, 12:20 AM	His problem may be the way he's playing monsters. Frequently DMs end up throwing a few high-CR monsters at a large party. They're the cool monsters, but the odds are against them. They can be outnumbered, outflanked and outfought easily this way. Instead he should try littering the field with low-level hardy mooks to soak up time, resources and hp. Like shrubs with swords. And they should have crappy treasure (45 short swords, 30 suits of scale mail, a dire flail, and 45 gp, 300 silver, 350 cp). That way the big bad guys can dive bomb you or blast at you. Having your treasure stripped would help too, though that sucks for the players. Future monsters should have no permanent magic items, just stuff like potions and wands with 5 charges left. This way you burn through treasure instead of accumulating it. Let those staves get burnt up, a couple of the most overpowered magic items stolen, and then let the party be overpowered and throw challenging tactical encounters at them. Maybe it would make more sense to retire the characters and start over. The DM may be getting used to 3rd edition, or maybe he always played an overpowered game, but really when it's a cakewalk it isn't as much fun for many players longterm.
FruitOfTheShroom 12-12-06, 09:19 AM	Im in a game thats set in the forgotton realms. After a brief encounter with some well equipped orc pirates and a trip into Undermountain, our group has made it to level 6. However, we have found that anything under CR 10 dies in under 2 rounds. The DM has taken to throwing CR 12 dragons at us, since those take us 3-5 rounds to kill, and we don't take much damage from them. This seems to be highly unusual to me, and disrupts what realism there once was. Is this a common thing? Well, as others have said, your treasure is WAY WAY WAY ahead of the curve. Everyone should have a +1 weapon (or caster equivalent, like a pearl of power), a +2 ability item, and possibly magical armor/some other defensive item. Maybe a wand a few scrolls. Staves? NO WAY. +6 item? NO NO NO. Also, he may be misplaying many of the higher CR critters. Throwing one CR + 4 at the party (ie 12 at 8) is a sure way to get it killed. A monster won't just kamikaze itself into a party. Powerful/unique monsters will have minions. They will have a lair most likely which they should know like the back of their hand, thus gaining them some sort of tactical advantage. I know that I sometimes forget that many monsters have cool abilities that I wasn't factoring in. Just looking at HP, AC, and +to hit is not the best way to DM. Plus, playing from first edition doesn't really mean ANYTHING. 3.5 is so much different -- it has probably five times as much rules as the original, and is far less restrictive. 3.5 has just about a rule to cover anything -- 1.0 was all about DM justification.
Knight9910 12-12-06, 11:28 PM	As has been said, your DM is just plain bad. There is absolutely no reason why you should have staves and +6 items at level 6, much less TWO staves, and the fact that you say they're only half-charged means that you've probably had them for a while now. At least since level 4 or 5. For the most part, any party over 4 PCs is pushing it a little too far. 12 PCs? No way in hell. Also, your DM is giving you WAY too much treasure. And dragons as a common encounter? No. Just no. What's next? Tiamat herself as a random encounter? "As you round the corner you see five Tiamats playing cards at a table..."
JasonOrlandoHawk 12-12-06, 11:56 PM	Just to play devil's advocate, seeing as I've DM'd for extremely large, irregular parties before... The Random Treasure rolls can do screwy things with ANY game. I have one player in my group who is THE treasure roll person. Why? B/c, w/o any dice-roll fudging what-so-ever, she can roll a 100% 1 out of every 3 treasure rolls, and that 100% is usually the magic items... AHH!!!! When the party gets tired of Luck Blades by level 14, someone's got a lucky streak!!! At one point in my game, the character in question had almost 3x the "standard value" for gear at her level, at level 17. That was despite massive editing on my part. We don't know. Maybe this DM has been subject to some very freak rolls. Dragons do offer Triple Standard treasure, which can further complicate the matter. My suggestion: It is very clear that you have too much treasure, be it through poor DMing or Freaky Dice rolls, I don't know. However, this would be an excellent opportunity for the group to show a little responsibility. Donate a Dragon's Treasure Hoard to Charity! Seriously, though, I recommend that you all, as a group, find a way to put that hard earned cash to work in ways that don't actually give you combat bonuses/abilities. Keep a few nice pieces, but turn around and build an orphanage, hoast a massive party, fix the roads in the kingdom, stock an entire library with brand new books, etc... Just find a way to get rid of some of that excessive wealth. It gives great RP material, as well as excellent Plot Hooks/Storyline Guides. (Hey, what was that strange spell he used against us? I don't know, but I know a good library we could research it in!) Make friends! Throw parties! Live it up! Invest in something other than Stat modifiers. And... Have you been tithing to your church? Have you been paying your taxes? Have you actually been paying for your meals? Rooms at the Inn? (Some DM's overlook these important resource drains.) Lastly, some possible DM resolutions: 1) A Wyrm/Great Wyrm Red Dragon shows up and demands tribute. Lots and lots of tribute. Your characters are suddenly much (more appropriate to their level) poorer than before. 2) Mordenkainen's Dysjunction, Wild Magic Areas, & Anti-Magic Fields... all useful for rendering your nifty bonuses useless. 3) There is no Item problem that can not be solved by 25 Raging Barbarians who all took the Improved Sunder Feat... (Why? B/c thieves is the expected, reversable answer...)
TarlSS 12-13-06, 12:04 AM	I would reccomend a restart. This game smells of cheddar.
e7way 12-13-06, 12:29 AM	ill play devils advocate and maybe explain the DM's behavior since im one of those guys playing with the THACO back in 82 when my brother got his first basic set of D&D, and there were only 6 classes to chose from. Then modules came with amazing amount of gold and magic. So he is still in old school frame of mind we old schoolers have troubles with that when it comes to this new system. As an old school DM playing in this new system you have to remind yourself that the PC's can make thier own magic items now no need for monty hall adventures.
kyeudo 12-13-06, 12:41 AM	Looks like the game died, but thanks for the suggestions on trying to fix the game. I like the idea of the great wyrm demanding tribute, but with the Thri-kreen fighter hyper-crit machine, the tiger were-human druid, and the were-silver dragon cleric, we might just tell the dragon to mind his own buisness or die. By the way, anyone know how to put those spoiler blocks in a sig?
Morwen 12-13-06, 01:56 AM	I like the idea of the great wyrm demanding tribute, but with the Thri-kreen fighter hyper-crit machine, the tiger were-human druid, and the were-silver dragon cleric, we might just tell the dragon to mind his own buisness or die. Well, I just found a new reason why you're just walking over encounters "4-6 CRs above your level". All of those races have high level adjustments and racial hit dice, so each of them start out as the following Effective Character Level, before adding class levels: -Thri-Kreen: 4th level (10th if he has 6 Fighter levels) -Weretiger: 9th level (15th if he has 6 Druid levels) -Weredragon (?!!): If you could have used a Dragon as the Were-Animal or as the base creature, which you can't, this would be at least a 10th level character (16th with 6 cleric levels), if a Wyrmling Silver Dragon was used.
Kitaki 12-13-06, 08:09 AM	With 12 people potentially playing at once your DM needs to throw you at alot of moderatly challenging enemies, how about several CR12 dragons, plus ur DM needs to use every possible trick they have, remember Dragons can cast spells.
elondir 12-13-06, 09:02 AM	Ahh, I miss the old days when you could randomly roll a +5 holy avenger or a +4 defender at low levels on the treasure table. I don't miss the crazy alphabet treasure types though. I love monty haul because I like to see my equipment list fill up with lots of useless magical items. The game is only out of control if your group isn't enjoying it. If you think you have too much treasure, sell off some items, buy lesser versions, and use the rest of the cash as a backup fund or for an underground stronghold (use Stronghold Builder's Guidebook). IMHO there's nothing wrong with your equipment set. I wouldn't worry too much about the CRs of the monsters you guys are defeating. It sounds like your DM isn't having any major problems with balance, since he's upping the ELs to adequately challenge your party. What is important is how much fun the game is. Being overpowered for your CR speeds up your advancement (the DM can adjust this if you all agree that it's too fast), and makes combat less important since you can easily dispatch most enemies, thus making the reason for the combat (and the concequences afterwords) the primary focus.
kyeudo 12-13-06, 12:20 PM	Problem with that idea is that we already have an epic level wizard who lets us time share at his castle and we are in the employ of a temple turned army which also has a massive underground fortress/hanger/entire city. Anyway, I can't get in touch with the DM anymore, so the game has effectively died. He had to find a new house in town, said he was going to tell us where he was moving to, and I haven't seen him in about 2 months.