Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Callista 02-24-06, 07:53 AM	I've been pondering the Drider in the Monster Manual; and it seems to me that it would make for a rather interesting character. (Basically, they are Drow who have displeased Lloth in some way and consequently been turned into half-spiders.) The problem with this is I really don't know whether such a character is feasible: --The Level Adjustment. +4, and 6 hit dice? Ouch!! Nowhere near as powerful as a 10th-level character, a Drider wouldn't last a second in a game designed for 10th level... --"Always Chaotic Evil", as opposed to a normal Drow, who can easily be neutral on the G/E axis. (DM doesn't allow evil, with good reason--we're half newbies.) Their alignment is probably fixed thanks to their transformation, which most likely changes minds as well as bodies... so I'd need a reason for a Drider not to be Evil--maybe CN or TN. I suppose I could always go the Helm of Opposite Alignment route and have a LG one, but that would just be weird. So what turns a Drider non-evil? They're intelligent; but they're so severely tainted that they're in the same alignment category as a demon!... --Native to the Underdark. This means that I'd need a reason for one to be a.) on the surface and b.) actually surviving there. A feat spent on Daylight Adaptation is probably a must. --Armor would have to be nontraditional, costing more to make. Or would it have to be barding? --Large size. Sure, this is useful in some respects; but it's pretty awkward in a dungeon setting, with doorways and some halls only five feet wide. All these drawbacks... and yet it still intrigues me. Casts spells as a 6th level wizard or sorcerer... mediocre stat boosts... climb speed... darkvision... SR 19... Is there a way to make it work?
runestar 02-24-06, 08:15 AM	Apparently, an alignment of "always ..." does not mean that all creatures must be of that alignment by dnd terminology. Up to 1% of the overall population may be allowed to differ from said alignment. :cool: I guess an alignment of either CN or N might be reasonable. Likewise, alignment of "often ..." means that only about 50% of the overall population generally adheres to that population. ;) Hmm...You cast as a 6th lv spellcaster and have +4bab for ECL10. Abberation HD truely suck. It would be a shame to sacrifice either, so it seems that going eldritch knight would be the best way to go. Unfortunately, your first challenge comes in fulfilling the need for martial weapon proficiency, as monster HD is notoriously stingy when it comes to doling out weapon/armour proficiencies. :( You are proficient with simple weapons but not with any forms of armour. I suggest playing some sort of archer(you will get slaughtered if you attempt to stand toe to toe in melee). Maybe take a lv or 2 of fighter for the bonus feats and most importantly, weapon/armour proficiency, then zip into eldritch knight prc ASAP. You might wish to consider a lv of spellsword for the ASF reduction. Stick to a mithril shirt. What mode is your campaign taking? Location? Setting? It would be a nice monster PC for use in the city of the spider queen module though.
Callista 02-24-06, 08:26 AM	The campaign is located in a desert (think Arizona, not the Sahara), with the accompanying cities and wilderness. There's an extensive underground; the top layers of it are used mostly by kobolds but there are tunnels no one on the surface knows much about.
strcpy 02-24-06, 08:38 AM	There is a drider template article here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20011118a Basically it's a template for becoming a drider without or racial hit die. The samples include a Hill dwarf fighter drider and a goblin warrior drider. In this template it's only a +2 CR / ECL Have a nice day :)
Callista 02-26-06, 03:49 AM	I still don't have good answers to the Large-sized and Alignment questions... "Always"... the 1% were probably changed by magic or some overwhelming environmental/upbringing thing... which means I need a really good backstory to justify being CN/N.
stabs 02-26-06, 09:01 AM	Short of writing your backstory, can't help you with the alignment bit. Again, "ALWAYS" means "not always." Maybe your character wanted vengeance on Lolth for what he's become and somewhere along the way of working against drow realized they were evil and it was good to eat them (as it is in D&D morality.) And Large creatures can squeeze into 5 foot corridors, but it costs them 2 squares of movement, and you get -4 to AC and Attack. (PHB 148) But really, it won't be a problem. If there are combats in narrow corridors (unlikely, unless heavily into dungeoneering), then only one person in your party will be attacking in melee anyway, so just hurl spells.
DrMorganes 02-26-06, 09:50 AM	First off, why does this character have to be a "drider"? Don't get me wrong - I think the concept is sound. I'm just wondering whether your DM would be willing to sever the ties to the Drow and allow you to use the drider template without the Drow/Llolth backstory that comes with it. Perhaps you're a member of some new (or merely forgotten) desert race with ties to tarantulas rather than the black widows generally depicted for the driders. There could be tension between your race and the thri-kreen... You could drop much of the magical flavor of the drider - the spell-like abilities, spell resistance, and favored class - to reflect the relatively mundane nature of your existance. Type could stay Abberation (Elans are PC abberations, after all), poison attack could be dropped to be on par with the thri-kreen (that is, once per day only). Drop the HD requirement and tweak the abilitiy modifiers; you're not the result of some crazed magical manipulation after all. I'm aiming for a +2 LA here. Another option is that you are the result of a magical experiment performed by a fleshwarper (I think that's the prestige class in Lords of Madness). Apply the majority of the drider template to a size Small race and you'll end up with a Medium-sized creature. Since the experiment may have affected your mind, a Chaotic alignment requirement makes sense. However, the arcane rather than divine nature of the experiment could be the reason your moral alignment is still Good or Neutral. Your brain works differently now, but it wasn't warped by the power of an evil deity. You're a 4HD base creature, have the constant poison availability, and SR (though perhaps this could be reduced to 11 + Class Levels). If you're interested in playing a sorcerer, perhaps your DM would allow you to add the spells listed to the number of Level 1 spells known instead of adding them on as spell-like abilities. I don't see much imbalance there, and it could further drop your LA by removing the SLAs. Of course, these a pretty much a holdover from the Drow's racial SLAs. I see little reason for a non-drow non-Llolth-created "drider" to have them just because...
Kursk 02-26-06, 03:18 PM	Mechanically it is doable. However, how do you plan on not getting hacked to bits by good aligned townspeople that will freak when you, (evil monster) invades (visits) their town?
DrMorganes 02-26-06, 07:07 PM	That's assuming that the good-aligned townspeople have actually seen a drider. Keep in mind that driders are residents of the Underdark, and are not typically seen on the surface. Ever. The presense of a half-man/half-spider may be unsettling to some, but probably no more so than seeing a bipdeal lizard or a walking mantis with four arms... This PC may attract more than his fair share of attention from the Watch for a time, but eventually actions and attitude will speak far louder than mere appearance. It also assumes that the character uses the Drider template without the suggestions from my post above. It's entirely possible that a desert-dwelling half-spider race is well-known to and respected (if not actually trusted or liked) by desert-dwelling humaniods.
Callista 02-27-06, 04:44 AM	Oh, the new character doesn't *have* to be a drider--it's just an idea I'm tossing around. Regarding towns and such: Illusions and disguises should serve, for the most part, until the adventuring party (which also includes a half-dragon, a half-fiend slave, and a kobold) becomes well-known enough that the character is known as not being a threat. At any rate, dealing with towns is half the fun of a monster PC... Re. Driders known on the surface: No. In this region there aren't even a lot of elves, much less Drow. So the big problem is going to be "Aaaah, Monster!" rather than "Aaaah, Drider!". Meh. I trust the DM to make it possible to escape any pitchfork-wielding mobs I might encounter. DrMorganes, re. Tarantula instead of black widow: The idea has merit. If I got rid of a lot of the adjustments, and made it Medium, I might indeed end up with something like LA +2... It would be an iffy, requires-DM-approval operation though. Here's hoping no arachnophobes join the group!
ShadowDragon8685 02-27-06, 09:58 AM	Oh, the new character doesn't *have* to be a drider--it's just an idea I'm tossing around. Regarding towns and such: Illusions and disguises should serve, for the most part, until the adventuring party (which also includes a half-dragon, a half-fiend slave, and a kobold) becomes well-known enough that the character is known as not being a threat. At any rate, dealing with towns is half the fun of a monster PC... Re. Driders known on the surface: No. In this region there aren't even a lot of elves, much less Drow. So the big problem is going to be "Aaaah, Monster!" rather than "Aaaah, Drider!". Meh. I trust the DM to make it possible to escape any pitchfork-wielding mobs I might encounter. DrMorganes, re. Tarantula instead of black widow: The idea has merit. If I got rid of a lot of the adjustments, and made it Medium, I might indeed end up with something like LA +2... It would be an iffy, requires-DM-approval operation though. Here's hoping no arachnophobes join the group! Go with Drider, not a tarantula. Because, really... Tarantula? ARRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! GETIFOFFGETITOFFGETITOFFGETIFOFFGETITOFF GETITOFFGETIFOFFGETITOFFGETITOFF GETIFOFFGETITOFFGETITOFFGETIFOFFGETITOFF GETITOFFGETIFOFFGETITOFFGETITOFF GETIFOFFGETITOFFGETITOFFGETIFOFFGETITOFF GETITOFFGETIFOFFGETITOFFGETITOFF *thud* Sorry. I'm better now. :) Anyway, there is always the HoOA route, there's also the "I was an ordinary Drider, ******* around the Underdark, ambushing travels and eating them, then some VoPeace Cleric came along, delivered a holy subdual beat-down, and cast Sanctify the Wicked on me" route. You could also say that your character was an Eilistraeen who got captured by the Drow and Driderized as revenge by a sadistic but not-too-physical Matron.