Drow Knockout Poison? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Drow Knockout Poison? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Adrian_Crane
12-16-07, 07:33 PM I just wanted to toss out a something that's come up in a game I'm playing in

-What's the initial unconsciousness duration for Drow Knockout poison? Does lethal damage remove the condition?
We had this issue last session; the poison doesn't list a duration on the initial damage. Furthermore, since it was in combat, we were using 1 point damage sources (acid splash damage, Weasel familiar's bite attack, etc) to wake up downed party members who looked in danger of a coup de grace.

Don't get me wrong, it was tons of fun and made the mooks more deadly, but I'm wondering if there's any official stance on this? :D
Cifer
12-16-07, 08:00 PM -What's the initial unconsciousness duration for Drow Knockout poison?
It's probably best to assume the same duration as the secondary damage.

Does lethal damage remove the condition?
That's sleep. Unconsciousness doesn't go away that easily.
Adrian_Crane
12-16-07, 08:52 PM How does it go away, then? Anything short of duration?
Far_Traveler
12-16-07, 09:39 PM It lasts 1 minute, you wake up if you succeed on the second save.
Adrian_Crane
12-16-07, 10:48 PM Hm, thanks. It was kinda fuzzy, and I'm not sure the DM meant it to be that lethal since he was the one who decided lethal damage should break it. Good to have clarification, though.
Cifer
12-17-07, 05:57 AM @Far Traveler
Is there any source for this?
Sinis
12-17-07, 11:25 AM From the SRD, under the drow elf entry:

An opponent hit by a drow’s poisoned weapon must succeed on a DC 13 Fortitude save or fall unconscious. After 1 minute, the subject must succeed on another DC 13 Fortitude save or remain unconscious for 2d4 hours. A typical drow carries 1d4-1 doses of drow knockout poison. Drow typically coat arrows and crossbow bolts with this poison, but it can also be applied to a melee weapon. Note that drow have no special ability to apply poison without risking being poisoned themselves. Since this poison is not a magical effect, drow and other elves are susceptible to it.

I'm sure unconscious for 1 minute default initial damage exists somewhere, but I can never find it.
Adrian_Crane
12-17-07, 08:19 PM I'm still wondering if there's any way short of duration to heal it. Neutralize Poison is Ranger 3 / Cleric 4, but it says it doesn't heal existing conditions; it only prevents future damage. Lesser Restoration, on the lower end of the scale, can heal Ability damage or drain. Healing restores subdual HP along with lethal damage, but the poison doesn't say it deals subdual damage.

10 rounds of an unhealable, helpless state for a 20th level character off an unlucky save seems pretty excessive for a 75 gp poison. Are there any rules for removing unconsciousness? If not, this is effectively a save-or-die poison when used in combat.
CaptainPicard
12-17-07, 11:48 PM I'd rule that a Lesser Restoration or anything better wakes a person up from unconsciousness. Sure, it's not exactly what the spell is supposed to do, but it's in keeping with the spirit of the spells; Lesser Restoration can heal damage to the body done by dangerous foreign chemicals, and in this case unconsciousness is that damage.
Cifer
12-18-07, 09:23 AM 10 rounds of an unhealable, helpless state for a 20th level character off an unlucky save seems pretty excessive for a 75 gp poison.
Are there any rules for removing unconsciousness? If not, this is effectively a save-or-die poison when used in combat.
It's not exactly save-or-die...
Firstly, the enemy has to hit you, so upping your armor class usually helps, as does raising your fort save. Secondly, the enemy is most likely a drow, which means that in order to be even touchable by this, you have to be stupid enough to engage in combat with drow without getting some kind of immunity to poison. At twentieth level, I'd consider that "Death by stupidity".
Sinis
12-18-07, 10:44 AM 10 rounds of an unhealable, helpless state for a 20th level character off an unlucky save seems pretty excessive for a 75 gp poison. Are there any rules for removing unconsciousness? If not, this is effectively a save-or-die poison when used in combat.

I don't think level 20 players would be terribly vulnerable to poison in any respect. If they aren't eating a Heroes feast as the breakfast of champions, they're all rocking delay poison since early morning.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Adrian_Crane 12-16-07, 07:33 PM	I just wanted to toss out a something that's come up in a game I'm playing in -What's the initial unconsciousness duration for Drow Knockout poison? Does lethal damage remove the condition? We had this issue last session; the poison doesn't list a duration on the initial damage. Furthermore, since it was in combat, we were using 1 point damage sources (acid splash damage, Weasel familiar's bite attack, etc) to wake up downed party members who looked in danger of a coup de grace. Don't get me wrong, it was tons of fun and made the mooks more deadly, but I'm wondering if there's any official stance on this? :D
Cifer 12-16-07, 08:00 PM	-What's the initial unconsciousness duration for Drow Knockout poison? It's probably best to assume the same duration as the secondary damage. Does lethal damage remove the condition? That's sleep. Unconsciousness doesn't go away that easily.
Adrian_Crane 12-16-07, 08:52 PM	How does it go away, then? Anything short of duration?
Far_Traveler 12-16-07, 09:39 PM	It lasts 1 minute, you wake up if you succeed on the second save.
Adrian_Crane 12-16-07, 10:48 PM	Hm, thanks. It was kinda fuzzy, and I'm not sure the DM meant it to be that lethal since he was the one who decided lethal damage should break it. Good to have clarification, though.
Cifer 12-17-07, 05:57 AM	@Far Traveler Is there any source for this?
Sinis 12-17-07, 11:25 AM	From the SRD, under the drow elf entry: An opponent hit by a drow’s poisoned weapon must succeed on a DC 13 Fortitude save or fall unconscious. After 1 minute, the subject must succeed on another DC 13 Fortitude save or remain unconscious for 2d4 hours. A typical drow carries 1d4-1 doses of drow knockout poison. Drow typically coat arrows and crossbow bolts with this poison, but it can also be applied to a melee weapon. Note that drow have no special ability to apply poison without risking being poisoned themselves. Since this poison is not a magical effect, drow and other elves are susceptible to it. I'm sure unconscious for 1 minute default initial damage exists somewhere, but I can never find it.
Adrian_Crane 12-17-07, 08:19 PM	I'm still wondering if there's any way short of duration to heal it. Neutralize Poison is Ranger 3 / Cleric 4, but it says it doesn't heal existing conditions; it only prevents future damage. Lesser Restoration, on the lower end of the scale, can heal Ability damage or drain. Healing restores subdual HP along with lethal damage, but the poison doesn't say it deals subdual damage. 10 rounds of an unhealable, helpless state for a 20th level character off an unlucky save seems pretty excessive for a 75 gp poison. Are there any rules for removing unconsciousness? If not, this is effectively a save-or-die poison when used in combat.
CaptainPicard 12-17-07, 11:48 PM	I'd rule that a Lesser Restoration or anything better wakes a person up from unconsciousness. Sure, it's not exactly what the spell is supposed to do, but it's in keeping with the spirit of the spells; Lesser Restoration can heal damage to the body done by dangerous foreign chemicals, and in this case unconsciousness is that damage.
Cifer 12-18-07, 09:23 AM	10 rounds of an unhealable, helpless state for a 20th level character off an unlucky save seems pretty excessive for a 75 gp poison. Are there any rules for removing unconsciousness? If not, this is effectively a save-or-die poison when used in combat. It's not exactly save-or-die... Firstly, the enemy has to hit you, so upping your armor class usually helps, as does raising your fort save. Secondly, the enemy is most likely a drow, which means that in order to be even touchable by this, you have to be stupid enough to engage in combat with drow without getting some kind of immunity to poison. At twentieth level, I'd consider that "Death by stupidity".
Sinis 12-18-07, 10:44 AM	10 rounds of an unhealable, helpless state for a 20th level character off an unlucky save seems pretty excessive for a 75 gp poison. Are there any rules for removing unconsciousness? If not, this is effectively a save-or-die poison when used in combat. I don't think level 20 players would be terribly vulnerable to poison in any respect. If they aren't eating a Heroes feast as the breakfast of champions, they're all rocking delay poison since early morning.