Druid Octopii Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Druid Octopii Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mtrpcic
07-15-07, 09:06 PM So I'm playing a level 15 Druid on Thursday, and want to Wildshape into an Octopus or a Giant Squid, for the shear number of attacks.

A few questions:

1) What kind of penalties do I incur for being an aquatic creature fighting on land (asside from the drowning rules)?

2) What defines "familiar with a creature". I have to be familiar with a creature before I can Wildshape into one. Does that mean that I have to have fought one before, touched ones forhead, what?

3) Does a druid have to be in normal form to Wildshape, or could I Wildshape from one animal straight to another?

Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance.
Salla
07-15-07, 09:48 PM So I'm playing a level 15 Druid on Thursday, and want to Wildshape into an Octopus or a Giant Squid, for the shear number of attacks.

A few questions:

1) What kind of penalties do I incur for being an aquatic creature fighting on land (asside from the drowning rules)?

This one I don't know about.

2) What defines "familiar with a creature". I have to be familiar with a creature before I can Wildshape into one. Does that mean that I have to have fought one before, touched ones forhead, what?

Absolutely nothing in hard text defines 'familiar with'. It's entirely in your DM's hands.

3) Does a druid have to be in normal form to Wildshape, or could I Wildshape from one animal straight to another?

Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance.

I do believe you can shift from shape to shape without having to enter your native form in between.
Genetic
07-15-07, 10:43 PM For penalties regarding aquatic creatures on land... drowning rules is it. You can't breathe air. Otherwise you're fine. Just use the listed land speed (which octopi have).
mtrpcic
07-15-07, 10:50 PM My DM is saying I'd suffer a -4 penalty on all my attack rolls.
Turel
07-16-07, 12:07 AM well -4 is far better than a con check or die. :/
Rerecros
07-16-07, 12:16 AM yeah, there's no reson to give you an attack penalty.
Callista
07-16-07, 07:55 AM I think there is. An octopus is used to fighting in water--where movemnent is different, motion is different... everything's different. It would be like a human trying to fight, for example, in zero gravity... There would have to be penalties.
DrMorganes
07-16-07, 08:42 AM -4 isn't all that bad - especially when you consider most of your attacks will be grapple checks (touch attacks) with automatic damage thereafter.

Far better, as noted, than CON Check or die.
runestar
07-16-07, 09:00 AM I think there is. An octopus is used to fighting in water--where movemnent is different, motion is different... everything's different. It would be like a human trying to fight, for example, in zero gravity... There would have to be penalties.
Yes, but you are not an octopus, you are a human wildshaped into one. By your analogy, the poster should not receive said penalty since he should be accustomed to fighting on land.;)
Kursk
07-16-07, 12:12 PM So I'm playing a level 15 Druid on Thursday, and want to Wildshape into an Octopus or a Giant Squid, for the shear number of attacks.

Wow! How many times has your Druid encountered a giant squid?
Phrennzy
07-16-07, 01:27 PM A few questions:

1) What kind of penalties do I incur for being an aquatic creature fighting on land (asside from the drowning rules)?

2) What defines "familiar with a creature". I have to be familiar with a creature before I can Wildshape into one. Does that mean that I have to have fought one before, touched ones forhead, what?

3) Does a druid have to be in normal form to Wildshape, or could I Wildshape from one animal straight to another?

Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance.

1). What kind of penalties do I incur Since you would be fighting in an environment not suitable for the octopus/squid form, I would assess the same penalty that non-aquatics get for fighting underwater, a -2 on attacks. I would not reduce damage (underwater combat halves damage, but I believe this is due to interference of water, which is not present on land).

And, of course, you'd have to hold your breath. 2 x Con rounds. I would also rule that if you fell unconcious in octopus form, you would not revert back to druid. So don't suffocate.

2. What defines "familiar with a creature". You must have had sexual relations. The book is referring to 'familiar' in the biblical sense, as in 'had sex with'. My advice would be to get very, very, drunk. And never speak of it again.

3. Does a druid have to be in normal form to Wildshape No.
Kursk
07-16-07, 01:40 PM 1). Since you would be fighting in an environment not suitable for the octopus/squid form, I would assess the same penalty that non-aquatics get for fighting underwater, a -2 on attacks. I would not reduce damage (underwater combat halves damage, but I believe this is due to interference of water, which is not present on land).

Anyone who has spent any time at a marine lab will know that out of water you aren't going to be able to attack much unless the land based opponent can't move or you are tossed on top of the opponent. If you are huge reach can help though.
Kursk
07-16-07, 02:23 PM Since Phrennzy was using D&D rules as his argument and Kursk, you are using RL rules for yours, you lose.

Cool. Do you know the page in the DMG for that? I couldn't find it for those type of marine creatures fighting on land.
mtbOgre
07-16-07, 02:26 PM Yes, but you are not an octopus, you are a human wildshaped into one. By your analogy, the poster should not receive said penalty since he should be accustomed to fighting on land.;)

How about a shark? Since the druid is used to fighting on land then a druid should be able to take a shark's form and attack just normal also right? Or maybe a whale?

Hmm... I see some potential there. Fly over BBEG as a small bird then wildshape into a whale.

I guess the point is... whales, sharks, and octopuses have one thing in common, they are all non-amphibious water critters not suited for surviving, moving, or ATTACKING on land. A -4 attack is being generous.
mtbOgre
07-16-07, 03:06 PM 2. You must have had sexual relations. The book is referring to 'familiar' in the biblical sense, as in 'had sex with'. My advice would be to get very, very, drunk. And never speak of it again.
While this is the best ruling of the wild shape familiarity ruling the term "familiar" was never really used this way in the bible. Usually it was "he Knew her".
Phrennzy
07-16-07, 07:35 PM Anyone who has spent any time at a marine lab will know that out of water you aren't going to be able to attack much unless the land based opponent can't move or you are tossed on top of the opponent. If you are huge reach can help though.

Well, for one thing, giant squid/octopi are large and have a 20' reach, so shifting into octo-shape close to opponents is advised.

Two: Giant Octopi have a move speed of 20' and a swim speed of 30'. So the Giant Octopi can crawl along the ground at a speed of 20'.

Three: There is no rule for aquatics fighting outside of the water. So I judged it from the nearest comparable rule - air breathers fighting underwater.

Four: Page 6 of the DMG suggests that when you can't find a rule, a +/- 2 points is a quick rule of thumb. -4 isn't totally out of the park though, as an octopus is hatin' life on land.

And finally, is shape changing into a giant octopus really going to break the game? He can't stay in that shape longer than 26 rounds.

There are many more shapes that are much more powerful and useful than a slowly suffocating squid flailing around at people.
Kursk
07-16-07, 07:48 PM Four: Page 6 of the DMG suggests that when you can't find a rule, a +/- 2 points is a quick rule of thumb. -4 isn't totally out of the park though, as an octopus is hatin' life on land.

Sea creatures are not built to support their weight on land. Just a very bad idea for a sea creature that doesn't posses a skeletal structure. I would allow it to slither and not much else. Which is what they do when you dump them on the deck of a boat.
WizO_Cat
07-16-07, 09:47 PM Ok, just a reminder, keep the posts on the subject matter of the thread, not other guests. Thank you.
dirkformica
07-16-07, 10:01 PM So I'm playing a level 15 Druid on Thursday, and want to Wildshape into an Octopus or a Giant Squid, for the shear number of attacks.
<snip>
2) What defines "familiar with a creature". I have to be familiar with a creature before I can Wildshape into one. Does that mean that I have to have fought one before, touched ones forhead, what?

Giant Octopus is on the Summon Nature's Ally list at 6th level, and Giant Squid is at 7th. So you should easily be familiar with both at your level. This could include Phrennzy's suggestion if you don't really care about its feelings. 90 seconds is plenty. You can always extend it if you feel a real, close, personal connection. :P
mtbOgre
07-16-07, 11:56 PM And finally, is shape changing into a giant octopus really going to break the game? He can't stay in that shape longer than 26 rounds.

There are many more shapes that are much more powerful and useful than a slowly suffocating squid flailing around at people.

Truth... however a question was asked, thus I put forth my personal opinion on the subject. This really isn't a RAW question because there really aren't any rules here. However counter to your "There are many shapes more broken..." I would suggest that it sets a bad precedence. What if there were a totally broken example?

On the other hand.. If it has a normal speed (octo does, giant squid does not) then in game terms it is clearly adapted in some way to land movement and IMO... probably should get attacks with no penalty. Other stuff such as the jet ability and the Ink are tied to the aquatic environment though.
danyc
07-17-07, 01:04 AM You might want to look into the Air Breathing spell (or whatever it's precisely called). I think its reprinted in Spell Compendium, originally probably Masters of the Wild or whatever. My Druid in 3.0 spent a lot of time in squid-like forms :)

Familiarity is also not really defined in the rules, as people note, so talk to your DM. Something on the scale between sight and the abovementioned sexual relations is probably good :) And in this case, because you can indeed summon the creatures, it should be easy to pull off. For other animals, you might suggest to your DM a Knowledge: Nature check to 'research' or simply 'know of' animals you haven't actually encountered. This is a pretty common way of ruling it in many games I've played.
LordBOB777
07-17-07, 01:40 AM Our DM said that if i passed the Knowledge (whatever) check, i was familiar with said creature.

Being a MOMF and a few feats (education i think) gave me the expanded knowledges needed.
Kursk
07-17-07, 10:54 AM Giant Octopus is on the Summon Nature's Ally list at 6th level, and Giant Squid is at 7th. So you should easily be familiar with both at your level. This could include Phrennzy's suggestion if you don't really care about its feelings. 90 seconds is plenty. You can always extend it if you feel a real, close, personal connection. :P

Good idea. Simply summon them and observe their movement, etc,. That would do the trick.
shadzar
07-17-07, 11:38 AM For penalties regarding aquatic creatures on land... drowning rules is it. You can't breathe air. Otherwise you're fine. Just use the listed land speed (which octopi have).
also there is drying out.

usually a land-based creature isn't under water long enough (alive) to notice the effects of being submerged in water.

while a water based creature would more easily notice that their skin is drying out, etc. a squid would have its outer skin becomes less than usuable for getting into places, and the suction cups would stop working as they dry out.

look up what happens to squids and octopii in RL when taken out of water for periods of time and you could be able to based it on that.
zelf_gale
07-17-07, 03:10 PM 1) Can't move unless they have a move speed other than their swim speed. House rules for attack penalties are feasible (but I don't find them personally necessary).

2) It must be house ruled for each campaign. I always choose the Animorphs version, which requires a morpher to touch an animal of a particular species to take that form. Summoning spells, zoos, and survival skill use can all get you up close to pet "fluffy" (and wild empathy might be able to get you away afterwards). Another variant is based on where your character lives/lived and only including animals with environment descriptors that match your home location's.

3) No
Andyr
07-17-07, 04:45 PM Sea creatures are not built to support their weight on land. Just a very bad idea for a sea creature that doesn't posses a skeletal structure. I would allow it to slither and not much else. Which is what they do when you dump them on the deck of a boat.

This is very true--I suspect that an octopus/squid wouldn't really be able to move much, and probably wouldn't be able to lift its limbs or attack. Air just isn't supportive enough.
Empirate
07-20-07, 10:56 AM I've seen (OK, it was on TV...) octopus (plural=singular in this case, BTW) move on dry land. They DO slither and not much else. Their lack of internal skeleton makes them appear as a very flat heap of arms. They flail about, but not in a helpless manner - they seem to know pretty well what they're doing. They can and do cross beaches overland and keep a small supply of breathing water in a pouch within their bodies. I seem to remember octopus can survive for up to 30 minutes out of water, and they are not shy to take a quick dip into waterless environments IRL. They do dry out over time, of course - but no quicker than common slugs, so suffocation would usually occur first.
As far as attacking is concerned, I WOULD apply a rather large penalty: They can't lift their arms! Also, as opposed to when they're in water, they can't attack with all arms. If I were your DM I'd rule it the following way: -4 to all attack rolls, no charge or run, only 4 arms can attack at one time. Grappling and Tripping might still work very well, though.

One thing that is not covered in the MM is that octopus actually have some of the best eyes among all animals. They work quite similar to human eyes and cannot only distinguish color well, they also have very high resolution and good depth-perception. Most animals should get a Spot penalty in D&D, while octopus should probably get a bonus, at least while underwater.
Aloki
07-20-07, 11:21 AM Not to be a grammar Nazi, but you're all wrong. It's octopi OR octopuses, depending on the context, which one sounds like it would fit better IMHO

Dictionary Entry for Octopus (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/octopus)

Anyway, about the question at hand, it would depend on the environment. If it is for example, your average dungeon, chances are, it is going to be humid, so no need to worry about the skin drying out really. And I would also give it a -4, only because the octopus' (when a word ends in an s, just add an ' to make it plural, I knows me some Enlgish) body structure isn't designed to work on land. But, I would also make it need to make a grapple check to deal damage on the next round, and, if there are 3 successful grapple checks in a row, I would say you have worked your way up your, *ahem* victim's body, up to it's face. 2 for small enemy's (end in Y, add 's not ie's, because no word exists like that unless it already ends in ie), and started to suffocate them
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
07-26-07, 09:28 PM This is very true--I suspect that an octopus/squid wouldn't really be able to move much, and probably wouldn't be able to lift its limbs or attack. Air just isn't supportive enough.

Squid are helpless on land. Octowhatevers move quite fine, however.
Infernostrider
07-27-07, 07:59 AM Yes, but you are not an octopus, you are a human wildshaped into one. By your analogy, the poster should not receive said penalty since he should be accustomed to fighting on land.;)

good point actually, but one would still need to conjur a water bubble around ones head to prevent drowning

is there an entry in the monster manual about a full attack from a giant octopus? *looks* dang..8 arms AND a bite attack..
arm: +10 melee 1d4+5
bite: +5 melee 1d8+2

so the hitpenalty is already countered. now for average damage, assuming one focuses a full attack on ONE enemy: 73 damage..but average is a bad word as i used a dice gen >< not a bad thing to do i suppose
Dr. Benway
07-27-07, 02:01 PM There are species of octopuses that not only can but do come on land frequently. There are jungle octopuses that climb up into trees and hang from the branches like bats, and there is another that flattens themselves against the trunks of their trees...so should they have a climb speed as well....? :P

DocB
:88E: vs :coolcthul Who shall prevail?
mcnoo
07-27-07, 06:06 PM Invest in some gloves of man (from savage species I believe) and fight with 8 swords.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mtrpcic 07-15-07, 09:06 PM	So I'm playing a level 15 Druid on Thursday, and want to Wildshape into an Octopus or a Giant Squid, for the shear number of attacks. A few questions: 1) What kind of penalties do I incur for being an aquatic creature fighting on land (asside from the drowning rules)? 2) What defines "familiar with a creature". I have to be familiar with a creature before I can Wildshape into one. Does that mean that I have to have fought one before, touched ones forhead, what? 3) Does a druid have to be in normal form to Wildshape, or could I Wildshape from one animal straight to another? Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance.
Salla 07-15-07, 09:48 PM	So I'm playing a level 15 Druid on Thursday, and want to Wildshape into an Octopus or a Giant Squid, for the shear number of attacks. A few questions: 1) What kind of penalties do I incur for being an aquatic creature fighting on land (asside from the drowning rules)? This one I don't know about. 2) What defines "familiar with a creature". I have to be familiar with a creature before I can Wildshape into one. Does that mean that I have to have fought one before, touched ones forhead, what? Absolutely nothing in hard text defines 'familiar with'. It's entirely in your DM's hands. 3) Does a druid have to be in normal form to Wildshape, or could I Wildshape from one animal straight to another? Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance. I do believe you can shift from shape to shape without having to enter your native form in between.
Genetic 07-15-07, 10:43 PM	For penalties regarding aquatic creatures on land... drowning rules is it. You can't breathe air. Otherwise you're fine. Just use the listed land speed (which octopi have).
mtrpcic 07-15-07, 10:50 PM	My DM is saying I'd suffer a -4 penalty on all my attack rolls.
Turel 07-16-07, 12:07 AM	well -4 is far better than a con check or die. :/
Rerecros 07-16-07, 12:16 AM	yeah, there's no reson to give you an attack penalty.
Callista 07-16-07, 07:55 AM	I think there is. An octopus is used to fighting in water--where movemnent is different, motion is different... everything's different. It would be like a human trying to fight, for example, in zero gravity... There would have to be penalties.
DrMorganes 07-16-07, 08:42 AM	-4 isn't all that bad - especially when you consider most of your attacks will be grapple checks (touch attacks) with automatic damage thereafter. Far better, as noted, than CON Check or die.
runestar 07-16-07, 09:00 AM	I think there is. An octopus is used to fighting in water--where movemnent is different, motion is different... everything's different. It would be like a human trying to fight, for example, in zero gravity... There would have to be penalties. Yes, but you are not an octopus, you are a human wildshaped into one. By your analogy, the poster should not receive said penalty since he should be accustomed to fighting on land.;)
Kursk 07-16-07, 12:12 PM	So I'm playing a level 15 Druid on Thursday, and want to Wildshape into an Octopus or a Giant Squid, for the shear number of attacks. Wow! How many times has your Druid encountered a giant squid?
Phrennzy 07-16-07, 01:27 PM	A few questions: 1) What kind of penalties do I incur for being an aquatic creature fighting on land (asside from the drowning rules)? 2) What defines "familiar with a creature". I have to be familiar with a creature before I can Wildshape into one. Does that mean that I have to have fought one before, touched ones forhead, what? 3) Does a druid have to be in normal form to Wildshape, or could I Wildshape from one animal straight to another? Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance. 1). What kind of penalties do I incur Since you would be fighting in an environment not suitable for the octopus/squid form, I would assess the same penalty that non-aquatics get for fighting underwater, a -2 on attacks. I would not reduce damage (underwater combat halves damage, but I believe this is due to interference of water, which is not present on land). And, of course, you'd have to hold your breath. 2 x Con rounds. I would also rule that if you fell unconcious in octopus form, you would not revert back to druid. So don't suffocate. 2. What defines "familiar with a creature". You must have had sexual relations. The book is referring to 'familiar' in the biblical sense, as in 'had sex with'. My advice would be to get very, very, drunk. And never speak of it again. 3. Does a druid have to be in normal form to Wildshape No.
Kursk 07-16-07, 01:40 PM	1). Since you would be fighting in an environment not suitable for the octopus/squid form, I would assess the same penalty that non-aquatics get for fighting underwater, a -2 on attacks. I would not reduce damage (underwater combat halves damage, but I believe this is due to interference of water, which is not present on land). Anyone who has spent any time at a marine lab will know that out of water you aren't going to be able to attack much unless the land based opponent can't move or you are tossed on top of the opponent. If you are huge reach can help though.
Kursk 07-16-07, 02:23 PM	Since Phrennzy was using D&D rules as his argument and Kursk, you are using RL rules for yours, you lose. Cool. Do you know the page in the DMG for that? I couldn't find it for those type of marine creatures fighting on land.
mtbOgre 07-16-07, 02:26 PM	Yes, but you are not an octopus, you are a human wildshaped into one. By your analogy, the poster should not receive said penalty since he should be accustomed to fighting on land.;) How about a shark? Since the druid is used to fighting on land then a druid should be able to take a shark's form and attack just normal also right? Or maybe a whale? Hmm... I see some potential there. Fly over BBEG as a small bird then wildshape into a whale. I guess the point is... whales, sharks, and octopuses have one thing in common, they are all non-amphibious water critters not suited for surviving, moving, or ATTACKING on land. A -4 attack is being generous.
mtbOgre 07-16-07, 03:06 PM	2. You must have had sexual relations. The book is referring to 'familiar' in the biblical sense, as in 'had sex with'. My advice would be to get very, very, drunk. And never speak of it again. While this is the best ruling of the wild shape familiarity ruling the term "familiar" was never really used this way in the bible. Usually it was "he Knew her".
Phrennzy 07-16-07, 07:35 PM	Anyone who has spent any time at a marine lab will know that out of water you aren't going to be able to attack much unless the land based opponent can't move or you are tossed on top of the opponent. If you are huge reach can help though. Well, for one thing, giant squid/octopi are large and have a 20' reach, so shifting into octo-shape close to opponents is advised. Two: Giant Octopi have a move speed of 20' and a swim speed of 30'. So the Giant Octopi can crawl along the ground at a speed of 20'. Three: There is no rule for aquatics fighting outside of the water. So I judged it from the nearest comparable rule - air breathers fighting underwater. Four: Page 6 of the DMG suggests that when you can't find a rule, a +/- 2 points is a quick rule of thumb. -4 isn't totally out of the park though, as an octopus is hatin' life on land. And finally, is shape changing into a giant octopus really going to break the game? He can't stay in that shape longer than 26 rounds. There are many more shapes that are much more powerful and useful than a slowly suffocating squid flailing around at people.
Kursk 07-16-07, 07:48 PM	Four: Page 6 of the DMG suggests that when you can't find a rule, a +/- 2 points is a quick rule of thumb. -4 isn't totally out of the park though, as an octopus is hatin' life on land. Sea creatures are not built to support their weight on land. Just a very bad idea for a sea creature that doesn't posses a skeletal structure. I would allow it to slither and not much else. Which is what they do when you dump them on the deck of a boat.
WizO_Cat 07-16-07, 09:47 PM	Ok, just a reminder, keep the posts on the subject matter of the thread, not other guests. Thank you.
dirkformica 07-16-07, 10:01 PM	So I'm playing a level 15 Druid on Thursday, and want to Wildshape into an Octopus or a Giant Squid, for the shear number of attacks. <snip> 2) What defines "familiar with a creature". I have to be familiar with a creature before I can Wildshape into one. Does that mean that I have to have fought one before, touched ones forhead, what? Giant Octopus is on the Summon Nature's Ally list at 6th level, and Giant Squid is at 7th. So you should easily be familiar with both at your level. This could include Phrennzy's suggestion if you don't really care about its feelings. 90 seconds is plenty. You can always extend it if you feel a real, close, personal connection. :P
mtbOgre 07-16-07, 11:56 PM	And finally, is shape changing into a giant octopus really going to break the game? He can't stay in that shape longer than 26 rounds. There are many more shapes that are much more powerful and useful than a slowly suffocating squid flailing around at people. Truth... however a question was asked, thus I put forth my personal opinion on the subject. This really isn't a RAW question because there really aren't any rules here. However counter to your "There are many shapes more broken..." I would suggest that it sets a bad precedence. What if there were a totally broken example? On the other hand.. If it has a normal speed (octo does, giant squid does not) then in game terms it is clearly adapted in some way to land movement and IMO... probably should get attacks with no penalty. Other stuff such as the jet ability and the Ink are tied to the aquatic environment though.
danyc 07-17-07, 01:04 AM	You might want to look into the Air Breathing spell (or whatever it's precisely called). I think its reprinted in Spell Compendium, originally probably Masters of the Wild or whatever. My Druid in 3.0 spent a lot of time in squid-like forms :) Familiarity is also not really defined in the rules, as people note, so talk to your DM. Something on the scale between sight and the abovementioned sexual relations is probably good :) And in this case, because you can indeed summon the creatures, it should be easy to pull off. For other animals, you might suggest to your DM a Knowledge: Nature check to 'research' or simply 'know of' animals you haven't actually encountered. This is a pretty common way of ruling it in many games I've played.
LordBOB777 07-17-07, 01:40 AM	Our DM said that if i passed the Knowledge (whatever) check, i was familiar with said creature. Being a MOMF and a few feats (education i think) gave me the expanded knowledges needed.
Kursk 07-17-07, 10:54 AM	Giant Octopus is on the Summon Nature's Ally list at 6th level, and Giant Squid is at 7th. So you should easily be familiar with both at your level. This could include Phrennzy's suggestion if you don't really care about its feelings. 90 seconds is plenty. You can always extend it if you feel a real, close, personal connection. :P Good idea. Simply summon them and observe their movement, etc,. That would do the trick.
shadzar 07-17-07, 11:38 AM	For penalties regarding aquatic creatures on land... drowning rules is it. You can't breathe air. Otherwise you're fine. Just use the listed land speed (which octopi have). also there is drying out. usually a land-based creature isn't under water long enough (alive) to notice the effects of being submerged in water. while a water based creature would more easily notice that their skin is drying out, etc. a squid would have its outer skin becomes less than usuable for getting into places, and the suction cups would stop working as they dry out. look up what happens to squids and octopii in RL when taken out of water for periods of time and you could be able to based it on that.
zelf_gale 07-17-07, 03:10 PM	1) Can't move unless they have a move speed other than their swim speed. House rules for attack penalties are feasible (but I don't find them personally necessary). 2) It must be house ruled for each campaign. I always choose the Animorphs version, which requires a morpher to touch an animal of a particular species to take that form. Summoning spells, zoos, and survival skill use can all get you up close to pet "fluffy" (and wild empathy might be able to get you away afterwards). Another variant is based on where your character lives/lived and only including animals with environment descriptors that match your home location's. 3) No
Andyr 07-17-07, 04:45 PM	Sea creatures are not built to support their weight on land. Just a very bad idea for a sea creature that doesn't posses a skeletal structure. I would allow it to slither and not much else. Which is what they do when you dump them on the deck of a boat. This is very true--I suspect that an octopus/squid wouldn't really be able to move much, and probably wouldn't be able to lift its limbs or attack. Air just isn't supportive enough.
Empirate 07-20-07, 10:56 AM	I've seen (OK, it was on TV...) octopus (plural=singular in this case, BTW) move on dry land. They DO slither and not much else. Their lack of internal skeleton makes them appear as a very flat heap of arms. They flail about, but not in a helpless manner - they seem to know pretty well what they're doing. They can and do cross beaches overland and keep a small supply of breathing water in a pouch within their bodies. I seem to remember octopus can survive for up to 30 minutes out of water, and they are not shy to take a quick dip into waterless environments IRL. They do dry out over time, of course - but no quicker than common slugs, so suffocation would usually occur first. As far as attacking is concerned, I WOULD apply a rather large penalty: They can't lift their arms! Also, as opposed to when they're in water, they can't attack with all arms. If I were your DM I'd rule it the following way: -4 to all attack rolls, no charge or run, only 4 arms can attack at one time. Grappling and Tripping might still work very well, though. One thing that is not covered in the MM is that octopus actually have some of the best eyes among all animals. They work quite similar to human eyes and cannot only distinguish color well, they also have very high resolution and good depth-perception. Most animals should get a Spot penalty in D&D, while octopus should probably get a bonus, at least while underwater.
Aloki 07-20-07, 11:21 AM	Not to be a grammar Nazi, but you're all wrong. It's octopi OR octopuses, depending on the context, which one sounds like it would fit better IMHO Dictionary Entry for Octopus (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/octopus) Anyway, about the question at hand, it would depend on the environment. If it is for example, your average dungeon, chances are, it is going to be humid, so no need to worry about the skin drying out really. And I would also give it a -4, only because the octopus' (when a word ends in an s, just add an ' to make it plural, I knows me some Enlgish) body structure isn't designed to work on land. But, I would also make it need to make a grapple check to deal damage on the next round, and, if there are 3 successful grapple checks in a row, I would say you have worked your way up your, ahem victim's body, up to it's face. 2 for small enemy's (end in Y, add 's not ie's, because no word exists like that unless it already ends in ie), and started to suffocate them
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 07-26-07, 09:28 PM	This is very true--I suspect that an octopus/squid wouldn't really be able to move much, and probably wouldn't be able to lift its limbs or attack. Air just isn't supportive enough. Squid are helpless on land. Octowhatevers move quite fine, however.
Infernostrider 07-27-07, 07:59 AM	Yes, but you are not an octopus, you are a human wildshaped into one. By your analogy, the poster should not receive said penalty since he should be accustomed to fighting on land.;) good point actually, but one would still need to conjur a water bubble around ones head to prevent drowning is there an entry in the monster manual about a full attack from a giant octopus? looks dang..8 arms AND a bite attack.. arm: +10 melee 1d4+5 bite: +5 melee 1d8+2 so the hitpenalty is already countered. now for average damage, assuming one focuses a full attack on ONE enemy: 73 damage..but average is a bad word as i used a dice gen >< not a bad thing to do i suppose
Dr. Benway 07-27-07, 02:01 PM	There are species of octopuses that not only can but do come on land frequently. There are jungle octopuses that climb up into trees and hang from the branches like bats, and there is another that flattens themselves against the trunks of their trees...so should they have a climb speed as well....? :P DocB :88E: vs :coolcthul Who shall prevail?
mcnoo 07-27-07, 06:06 PM	Invest in some gloves of man (from savage species I believe) and fight with 8 swords.