Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CriminalTruth 03-20-06, 05:12 AM	things i would have made PC's pay dearly for as a DM. 1) Carvan forms a circle to protect from 15 heavy calvery. the pc's decide that they should take all the NPC soldiers OUTSIDE of the circle to " shoot arrows " at the calvery.... as opposed to shooting around the wagons... DM's Solution: make 2 npc wizards effectivly deal with the calvery. My Solution: Kill the 4 Pc's outside with all the NPC'S with an over run and take the other 3 pc's hostage. 2) 3 gaurds from the town come after the calvery is " dealt with" and NONE of the pc's ask or question who they are? the pc's sent a " runner " to the town Personally who the hell would send 3 NPC gaurds from a city to deal with a squadren of heavy calvery? i mean 3!!!!! .. ok maybe 10-15 armored warrors... maybe 10 calvery? but... 3 gaurds of "sergent" or so level... ( isn't that equal to like lvl 2 fighters? ) ohh.. and of course the PC's want to just.. HAND over the " hostages" .. to 3 people they dont even reconize just because of some insignia? .. i dunno.. why would a town even send 3 gaurds? i mean ... if anything they would send. 1.. 2 days later to report of loses or some calvery to deal with it... but 3 city gaurds....??riiiighhttt.. and yet....... no one questions it.. DM's solution: they must be gaurds because everyone knows 3 city gaurds can take out 15 heavy calvery. My Solution: They cut free the prisoners and attempt to kill the pc's I dunno... maybe im to harsh and believe in a challenge... maybe im parinoid.... But i mean... I'd still rather stay BEHIND a wagon and shoot CHARGING calvery instead of standing out in the open with 4 spears set for a charge ( is 4 spears going to stop 15 heavy calvery from over running you, when they are spread out evenly over 100 ft? ) and umm... would anyone else trust that only 3 city gaurds would show up to "help" deal ith 15 calvery?
MrGrass 03-20-06, 11:28 AM	It seems to me you're getting very angry about this game session and venting here. I've seen you post about this session three times on three different subjects. Instead of raging and griping you should try talking to the other players and the DM about it. But I have a few points I want to make. First, I know from your other posts that you joined the campaign right as this encounter was occuring. The PC's may have made a poor tactical choice, but instead of yelling at them for being stupid you can try to use this as a learning experience, both in game and OOC. The next time you have an encounter like this your character can point out using the wagons as cover would be a better idea. Second, you have only been in the game for one session. Yes it was appropriate for you to be suspicious of the three guards approaching the caravan. It seems fitting for your character as well. But arguing your DM's logic is shakey ground. As the DM I could argue that the 3 guards were the best that the town could send in this time of crisis. Although not enough to fend off the raiders on their own, the 3 guards could help reinforce a caravan or ascertain what had gone on. It may even be a regular occurance in the game, something that the players are used to ("Oh, here come the proper authorities"). Third, you are not the DM. "If I was the DM in this situation..." is always a bad way to start a sentence. DM's have a tricky enough job creating a world and environment for PC's. They don't need it to be made more difficult by having players saying they should have done this. If you're having problems with the logic of the DM's world, talk to him about it before or after sessions.
CriminalTruth 03-20-06, 01:43 PM	believe it or not.. i was quite polite... lol ... i didnt mention any of this to any of the players... cause they basicly ram rules down each others throats.. and seem to be power gamers.... IE " animate dead is not an evil spell i can cast it and control undead and be fine.. i wont turn evil at all " .... " copying spells from spell books is inexensive " ... " and if i multiclass all skills are class skills so therefore they only cost 1 point per level no matter what class i have " ... just some of the stuff i put up there... the guy running i pretty much told how to run a game for about 3 months this is his first time dming... as it turned out the guards thing you were right in the end.. and i told him about that.. my problem was the LACK of suspicion by any of the other characters.. ( this is about the 5th session i believe ) i mean.. that made no sense.. as far as the wagon..... eh.. i mentioned something they said " duuuhhhh" but then pointed out the 4 spears they had set for a " charge " .... i dunno bout you but 4 spears set for a charge against 15 calvery doesnt seem very good to me... but hey i was just ithrown the middle of it.... all in all i think the DM bailed everyone out.... which is fine.. me and him talked after the game... and i basicly told him he needs to get a little control over his players cause their basicly trying to use any rules they have to run the game themselfs... ( and their basicly breaking tons of rules...) but its HIS game soo.. i basicly gave him the best advice i could... Go home look over these things.. make ur choices stick to them.... and be CONSISTANT. no biggie.. im just venting here cause well... i certainly cant vent to the PC's .... like you said its my first session with them....hence why im SCREAMING AS LOUD AS I CAN HERE!!!!! <3 btw.. thanks for noticing
celtredleg 03-20-06, 02:20 PM	New DMs always have problems. I believe in another thread you said he was a friend of yours. In that case, the advise may well be what he needs most. Give it time. Thats what it takes to m,ake a new DM into a good one.
Surgo 03-20-06, 07:27 PM	Against low-level cavalry, those spears set against the charge will be absolutely deadly. Probably more deadly than hanging behind the wagons and shooting arrows. Of course, the spears could be set between the wagons...
Ameture Expert 03-20-06, 09:05 PM	Against low-level cavalry, those spears set against the charge will be absolutely deadly. Probably more deadly than hanging behind the wagons and shooting arrows. Of course, the spears could be set between the wagons... Yes, but four (4) spears against fifteen (15) cavalry . Deadly to about four (4) of them, that still leaves eleven (11). Now the most important thing to say here is there is a difference between experiance and rule lawers. Just because they are debating the books doesn't mean they actually know what they are doing just yet (noobs). Three low level guards, not suspicious my :censored:. If one of my DM's sent three guards, they'd turn out to be assasins from the cavaliers side, and if I was DMing I'd deffinitly be up to something. Sounds to me like you where the only one who wasn't "just learning" at the table. P.S. I know when I was just starting out my freinds and I would always debat the books, especially the sort of things they seemed to be thowing around.
Gilganarz_the_reporter 03-21-06, 03:36 AM	Dude, quit spamming the boards. Stick your gripes on one topic and leave the rest of us alone.
TheOneWhoWanders 03-21-06, 03:55 AM	It sounds that they are just learning, which as a DM, I wouldn't seem so bad. When I first began with a new DM (my brother), he decided to throw a Hydra at a party of level 2s. I think I'd rather have your situation than that. But I'd go along your lines and just give good advise to the DM and not complain to the others. You could go as far as putting in little notes as your talking about the session or even at the table to the other players to get their mind thinking past the little knowledge they already have. I'd see this as a good chance to make some good players and a good DM, kick them of the bad habits now, so it can really be enjoyable later.
kelvinaw273 03-21-06, 05:05 AM	1) Morale chack the npc archers to see if they are willing to get out from behind the wagons. Assuming they do ... 2) Archers let fly as the cavalry come in range. Unless anyone has thought to give them swallow-tail arrowheads and tell them to aim at the horses, the volley will have little effect. Any hits will injure but not kill a heavy cavalry man (I would guess at least 2nd lvl warrior, you'd want someone well-trained wearing that emount of cash) or his horse. Archer's check Morale at this. 3) Archers volley again, cavalry probably charges at this point. Unless they get very lucky, they still get no kills. 4) Charge bears down, archers check morale and unless the PCs among them do some amazing feats to hold them together they will break and flee behind the wagons. Cavalry will bear down two to each spearman (even if he gets one, he'll be minced) and the remainder run amok through the retreating archers and try to break into the wagon circle. Some will probably cast torches into the wagons to set them alight and smoke out the defenders. 5) The heavy cavalry will dispatch some men to ride down any runners or escapees from the massacre, unless the PCs rescue the situation. 6) If the city guard are depleted or short on manpower, they would send a few scouts (not equipped or enough to deal with prisoners) to find out what had occured and aid any survivors taking refuge in the wild. Just my opinion, mind you.