Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheWyrmDude 06-12-07, 02:30 PM	I recently joined a game (only played two sessions so far), but the CG fighter has constantly insulted and threatened to kill the other characters. The insults I'm not too worried about, but all the death threats? He's threatened my character three or four times for not instantly jumping into a fight he started, and the wizard around an equal amount of times for diffusing the fight with Pyrotechnics and Web. Would this warrant an alignment slip? He's playing his character as a borderline psychotic, and it's kinda causing some tension with the group. Ultimately it's up to the DM, but should I bring this up with him? I don't want it to remain unchecked until he actually does attack a party member.
Toran_A_Sunder 06-12-07, 02:33 PM	Yes. Bring it up to the DM. I'm so tired of morons thinking chaotic=crazy.
TheWyrmDude 06-12-07, 02:43 PM	The guy in question has only played 3 pen and paper sessions of DnD before. Everything else he learned from Neverwinter Nights. He's fairly obnoxious as a person, but that is leaking into his character a LOT, and that's the biggest problem here.
Hugin 06-12-07, 02:47 PM	Would this warrant an alignment slip? Nope, more likely a slip of the Hammer-gun! :P Without knowing personalities and such, I'd ask him if he has any questions or issues with D&D's alignment system, and see where the conversation takes it. Ask what he thinks would be the character's motivation for these comments. Delve into the character's head with him and try to avoid attacking the player. Whatever is done, do it outside the game itself.
bobothechimp 06-12-07, 03:06 PM	This seems enough for an instant slip to CN, and if it continues, not long until CE.
User5127 06-12-07, 03:13 PM	Slip him to CS. (chaotic stupid) :P haha. j/k. take up this issue with your dm, and possibly him, out of game.
Darkwolf71 06-12-07, 03:47 PM	The only issue is that slipping him to CN will likely result in him playing a MORE obnoxious fighter. :nonono:
mlund 06-12-07, 05:35 PM	Until he actually attacks somebody he's still Chaotic Good. Just because bullies used to give geeks like us wedgies doesn't mean someone whose got a bossy personality, a big mouth, and a chip on his shoulder isn't really Good at heart. Until he does something truly cruel I'd keep my nose out of other PC's alignment business. It sounds like you really have an OOG problem with this player's attitude towards the Table. - Marty Lund
StevenO 06-12-07, 05:51 PM	It sounds to me like the character is already CN even if that isn't what his character sheet says. A good character would NOT make repeated (serious) death threats. If the CN character actually carries out any of those threats that is grounds for moving it all the way into CE. If given free association I don't think many people would want someone around who constantly threatens their lives and has the means close at hand. It is one thing to verbalize a threat with no real threat to back it up but if someone is carring around a weapon when they make that threat it is a LOT more serious.
Salla 06-12-07, 07:06 PM	The correct source of action, IMHO, is for the party to IN CHARACTER get together and discuss the matter in the context of their individual personalities and experiences (you know, that role-play thing!), and decide what they are to do. The likely solution is that the other PCs will eject him from the team. One of two things will happen: 1. He will accept that his character has been a total jerk, and either 1a. Retire the character or 1b. make the character act like less of a jerk, or 2. Take it personally and 2a. Storm out of the game (and good riddance) or 2b. His character will try to enact the death threats ... at which point, your characters have him outnumbered and you can smoke him.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-12-07, 07:44 PM	I'd talk to the DM about it. be like, "Hey dude, I'm not sure if I like that fighter guy threatening my PC all the time. Seems kinda obnoxious, don't yaa think?" Although personally if it were me the first threat would have resulted in a warning, or the, " Try it response." usually followed up with him being rendered unconsciouses and tied naked to a tree about a mile out side of town. Not sure what'd I do in game though.
Karish 06-12-07, 07:51 PM	Your character feels threatened and aggrivated by the annoying and violent words sent to him. He considers the options, and decides it is best to react by killing the fighter. After all, he can't be good if he repeatedly wants to kill you for NOT being a murderous bastard. --- There's your wisdom.
mkill 06-13-07, 01:38 AM	While the fighter guy is definitely not acting up his alignment on the character sheet, that's not what your problem is. Your problem is that the character acts like a jerk, and he probably would in any alignment. I suggest solving it in-game. Next time he threatens other characters, try (in character): "Fine. If you want to act like a jerk, do that on your own. You are no longer a member of that party. If we ever see your ugly face again, *we* will kill *you*. Now get lost."
koiulpoi 06-13-07, 02:41 AM	...He's threatened my character three or four times for not instantly jumping into a fight he started, and the wizard around an equal amount of times for diffusing the fight with Pyrotechnics and Web... Sounds like the textbook Chaotic Evil to me. Sounds like a person you really don't want to be around. This exact situation happened in a game I was DMing (mind you, it was Shadowrun, but the same ideas apply). The rest of the party got fed up with how much of a dick he was being (threatening the rest of the party, attempting to be the leader but never having any worthwhile plans, rushing headfirst into battles that would have gotten them killed, etc) that they aggravated him into attacking another party member and then smoked him. Worked out really well.
TheWyrmDude 06-13-07, 02:53 AM	Until he actually attacks somebody he's still Chaotic Good. Just because bullies used to give geeks like us wedgies doesn't mean someone whose got a bossy personality, a big mouth, and a chip on his shoulder isn't really Good at heart. Until he does something truly cruel I'd keep my nose out of other PC's alignment business. It sounds like you really have an OOG problem with this player's attitude towards the Table. - Marty Lund Sorry, but when you threaten to kill someone for not wanting to participate in a fight with the local guard, or in the case of the wizard, stopping the fight between you and the local guard, I doubt there's much good there. There's a difference between having a problem with authority, and outright trying to kill it when it does something you don't like, once. And while the guy playing the character is quite obnoxious, his in-character attitude is quite a bit different.
Sylian 06-13-07, 06:33 AM	So basically, the guard told him something that he didn't like and he attacked the guard? Sounds like a lack of respect in life. I'd make him CN for the moment and if it continues (or if he attacks you), CE. Talk with the DM or player about it.
Fatalis_902 06-13-07, 07:08 AM	Nope, more likely a slip of the Hammer-gun! :P Actually, the hammer-gun is reserved for DMs who abuse the privilege. This guy would require, should the role-playing suggestion fail, the link in my sig to Cryosilver's Steve guide.
Sunic_Flames 06-13-07, 08:40 AM	Actually, the hammer-gun is reserved for DMs who abuse the privilege. This guy would require, should the role-playing suggestion fail, the link in my sig to Cryosilver's Steve guide. *offers +1 impact knockback flaming burst icy burst shocking burst vicious GMWed (CL 15th) enchanted folding chair*
northern_bear 06-13-07, 09:18 AM	Alignment, shminement. Who cares what his alignment is. There are only two points to consider: 1) This guy is making the game less fun for the other players. He needs to stop doing that. 2) If his character is threatening to kill other party members, then why the hell would they stick around him. Explain to the player, that if his character keeps ******* off the rest of the party, they will refuse to go on adventures with him.
LoveChildOfLegolas 06-13-07, 10:04 AM	I agree just gang up on him the next time he has an outburst. I mean if your wizard could split it up single handledly then you should be able to dispatch him easily. Good Luck
Fatalis_902 06-13-07, 12:03 PM	*offers +1 impact knockback flaming burst icy burst shocking burst vicious GMWed (CL 15th) enchanted folding chair* Exactly, except that Cryosilver beat you to the punch. See the "Folding Chair of Salvation" link. Remember, we don't want to kill the poor guy, (okay, maybe some of you might) all we want to do is teach him he's being an obnoxious prick. If he suffers brain-damage, and has to re-learn how to eat, talk, and roll dice, that's just a minor inconvience.
TheWyrmDude 06-13-07, 03:27 PM	I spoke with the DM, and he was already speaking with his wife (who is playing in the group) on the subject right after the second session (which was on monday). He said he's going to talk to him, and that he's not above booting someone from the group should he need to.
Ayra 06-14-07, 10:00 AM	Until he actually attacks somebody he's still Chaotic Good. Just because bullies used to give geeks like us wedgies doesn't mean someone whose got a bossy personality, a big mouth, and a chip on his shoulder isn't really Good at heart. Until he does something truly cruel I'd keep my nose out of other PC's alignment business. It sounds like you really have an OOG problem with this player's attitude towards the Table. - Marty Lund I agree with you. Enough kids nowadays shout "I'm so going to kill you!" or "You're dead meat!" when they are joking among themselves. If this is the case with the fighter, where all his threats hold not real meaning, then no alignment shift is in place at all. He might just think of death threats lightheartedly. However, it should be in his good nature to make sure the rest of the party is aware of his leniency towards death threats. I picture him as some big brutish fighter who shouts and insults anyone crossing his path, but when the serious threat lurks he proves to be an excellent companion with a real heart for things who would easily sacrifice his life for that of someone he just threatened to kill. On the other hand. If this is *not* the case, and he makes serious death threats and wants to rule with fear, then he definitely needs an alignment shift to neutral. If he materializes that fear by actually killing someone like that, he is chaotic evil. I believe that the example of a Chaotic Good person is depicted as Robin Hood, who steals from the rich but gives to the poor. Someone who would craft a huge lie in order to save lives, someone who would commit a crime for the greater good.
TheWyrmDude 06-14-07, 01:35 PM	I agree with you. Enough kids nowadays shout "I'm so going to kill you!" or "You're dead meat!" when they are joking among themselves. If this is the case with the fighter, where all his threats hold not real meaning, then no alignment shift is in place at all. He might just think of death threats lightheartedly. However, it should be in his good nature to make sure the rest of the party is aware of his leniency towards death threats. I picture him as some big brutish fighter who shouts and insults anyone crossing his path, but when the serious threat lurks he proves to be an excellent companion with a real heart for things who would easily sacrifice his life for that of someone he just threatened to kill. On the other hand. If this is *not* the case, and he makes serious death threats and wants to rule with fear, then he definitely needs an alignment shift to neutral. If he materializes that fear by actually killing someone like that, he is chaotic evil. I believe that the example of a Chaotic Good person is depicted as Robin Hood, who steals from the rich but gives to the poor. Someone who would craft a huge lie in order to save lives, someone who would commit a crime for the greater good. There is no hint to whether he's joking or not. He tried to kill the guards for trying to arrest him for interfering with their investigation (here I will admit that the guards were being really rough with the people in the inn. They're also part of the main antagonistic force, but at the time I didn't know that, none of us did). With that in mind, the fact that he's armed, and the tone in which he speaks when making his threats, leads me and the people in the group to take it seriously.
Salla 06-15-07, 01:59 AM	There is no hint to whether he's joking or not. He tried to kill the guards for trying to arrest him for interfering with their investigation (here I will admit that the guards were being really rough with the people in the inn. They're also part of the main antagonistic force, but at the time I didn't know that, none of us did). With that in mind, the fact that he's armed, and the tone in which he speaks when making his threats, leads me and the people in the group to take it seriously. That was the impression I got from your original post. Do any of the PCs have a decent Sense Motive roll? That player could ask the DM if he can make the check to see if the antagonistic PC is serious. Logically, the DM would then look at the jerky player, and get a yes or no (HOPEFULLY an honest one), and there's your answer.
CryoSilver 06-15-07, 01:14 PM	He's still Chaotic Good; one bad habit does not make him neutral or evil.
danielinthewolvesden 06-15-07, 07:40 PM	Who cares about the alignment of the PC? What the OP wants is for him to stop. And the best way of doing that is talking to the player like two adults. "Say Steve, I know you are just having fun with all these IC death threats, but it decreases my gaming fun. Can you cut it WAY back, please?"
Salla 06-15-07, 08:25 PM	Who cares about the alignment of the PC? What the OP wants is for him to stop. And the best way of doing that is talking to the player like two adults. "Say Steve, I knwo you are just having fun will all these IC death threats, but it decreases my gaming fun. Can you cut it WAY back, please?" Unfortunately, the fact that the other player thinks that acting in this manner is appropriate in the first place leads me to believe that he is not, in fact, an adult, at least in mind.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-16-07, 01:09 AM	Unfortunately, the fact that the other player thinks that acting in this manner is appropriate in the first place leads me to believe that he is not, in fact, an adult, at least in mind. As rare as it is i have to agree with Salla.
Stormbrand 06-16-07, 11:01 AM	The guy in question has only played 3 pen and paper sessions of DnD before. Everything else he learned from Neverwinter Nights. He's fairly obnoxious as a person, but that is leaking into his character a LOT, and that's the biggest problem here. Zero tolerance is the best policy. Punish him. Severely. Death is advised. As for the character... :P Quite frankly, I see no reason to keep someone who behaves this way. Good policy when encountering a death threat is to strike the very moment they take their eyes off you. Can you see any character doing different?
danielinthewolvesden 06-16-07, 03:08 PM	Unfortunately, the fact that the other player thinks that acting in this manner is appropriate in the first place leads me to believe that he is not, in fact, an adult, at least in mind. Make no 'diff. All you control is yourself, and if you discuss it with him as if YOU are an adult, it should work.If not then there are other options. But this always needs to be amoung the first things you try.
Paladin_Hiroshi 06-19-07, 06:23 PM	Simple... Wait until the party camps down, take away his weapons while he sleeps, presuming he isn't sleeping in armour.... Wake him up with a dagger to his throat and simply ask him 'Now...we're not going to have any more problems with you are we?' (it's best to have the other PC's around him, holding saps, menacingly....) :) Problem solved.