Dungeon Crawl obsessive [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dungeon Crawl obsessive [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fort deadly kick
08-21-05, 01:22 PM Does anyone have any advice for trying to lead my group out of cutscene, dungeon, cutscene, dungeon, cutscene, dungeon, etc? I feel like we're playing Diablo or something, and that game gets tedious quickly.

I keep inventing skilled characters built for cities, or smart fighters made for open combats, or something other than random dungeoncrawling fighters and rogues. Even an ruined site or forest, anything but random rooms and creatures. We already have the Ebberon CS book and complete adventurer, how could I convince them to give it a go?
weasel fierce
08-21-05, 01:47 PM Write adventures that doesnt take place in a dungeon. Investigation plots, interaction with NPC's, diplomatic missions, rival factions quarreling with each other etc.

You're the DM. You're the one writing the scenarios
Fort deadly kick
08-21-05, 01:56 PM Huh? No, I'm not the DM, i'm just a bit bored with the VG-esque Adventures, and I was wondering about ways of getting the grup to splash out a bit.
NinjaE
08-21-05, 01:58 PM Well, what do you mean, cutscene, dungeon, cutscene-? If you mean, they're not playing out the time they spend in cities selling their phat lewt, try doing so.
"DM: K, guys, after (a few days), you arrive at the gates of (city)(descriptive text). What do you want to do?"
Then, when they go see "ye olde magic shoppe"(or wherever),
"DM: As you enter the shop, you quickly get a feeling of "wrongness", heightened by the lack of the shopkeeper in the front room."
When they call for the shopkeeper,
"DM: At first, there's no sound as you await some sort of confirmation. Then, suddenly, you hear running, then a crashing sound, coming from the floor above."
When the players go check it out,
"DM: A grisly sight meets you as you climb the stairs to the private rooms of the shop; the shopkeeper lies, mutilated, in a pool of his own lifeblood. The window looking over the alley next to the shop has been shattered, and you catch a brief glimpse of (insert brief description of killer here) before he runs into the packed crowds in the street/turns a corner."
And voila! A murder mystery, with the PCs as the only witnesses!
Now, there are a lot of ways this could go, amongs them being:
If the PCs actually roleplay(your description didn't say, but I assume they don't.), they could be approached by members of the assasins' guild, attempting to bribe them into keeping what they saw quiet. They refuse, leading to
The assasins' guild could also simply silence them before they go to the watch/testify/whatever.
Maybe they go vigilante on the killer?

Hell, you don't care. The point is, they're in a murder mystery they can't just get out of to continue crawling.

*e* Dammit! I'll need to rethink this...
Fort deadly kick
08-21-05, 02:05 PM Maybe I could ask to DM a short adventure/module in Sharn. Reading the eberron CS, there's just so many factions and setting and possibly quests. emerald claw, city watch, paladins, mockery cultists, assasisns, houses, lord of blades, it's all good!
Templetroll
08-21-05, 07:33 PM Maybe I could ask to DM a short adventure/module in Sharn. Reading the eberron CS, there's just so many factions and setting and possibly quests. emerald claw, city watch, paladins, mockery cultists, assasisns, houses, lord of blades, it's all good!

Is the DM as excited about the Eberron book as you are? Have you talked to him about how you feel with the adventures he's been running?
Shaken, not Stunned
08-21-05, 08:17 PM That second question is important. If you have not talked to your DM yet, what the hell are you doing here?

Also, have you considered your DM wants you to RP, you simply aren't taking or making opportunities?

Talk to people in town. Talk to the last orc and offer him a chance to surrender. Talk to your fellow party memebers. Hell, how can you not role play?

If you want different types of objectives, tell your DM! How is he supposed to throw missions you want to take at you if you don't ask, or even declare your character is on the look-out for such missions?
Fort deadly kick
08-22-05, 05:08 AM I've already talked to my Dm and he says that the others seem to be more interested in diablo style of play.

One of the guys even calls people names when they talk in character. Why is he even here?
Red_Ninja
08-22-05, 08:09 AM then you'll have to do you character development/ roleplaying on the sidelines for a while till they get jealous...trust me this works

-For example use you growing adventuring fortune to invest in a merchant house (say 10,000gp investment and you garner proceeds equal to 200+5d20gp every month)-
-or Use gather information to create and maintain a large network of fellow adventures and class based collegues, as use you network to find out about new adventures, buddies who need help/have gone missing, and recruiting firm for new henchmen
-or begin pursuit of a noble/ difficult to catch romatic interest, with lots of sneaking under her/his balcony, passing notes, bribing guards, etc...
-begin the groundwork for a political/noble career, start talking to lots of people, throwing parties, buying drinks, once the local nobles begin to realize that you have merit and standing, you'll be able to worm your way into the upper circles of the elite...

Trust me, doing any (or all) of these things, or similar things may not full satiate your need for roleplaying, but as long as you keep it on the sidelines, you'll get some satisfaction and you'll keep the game going the way everyone seems to like it...eventually, the other PCs will notice your "side projects" and begin a few of their own- whether they do or not, its will be relatively easy for the DM to spin one of your (or a fellow PC's) side projects into an adventure for everyone...ie...a dragon has stolen you merchant shipment! retrieve it or suffer a huge financial loss as the merchant house falls to bankruptcy!- or your buddies that you keep in contact with haven't returned from their raid on the spider forest, lets go rescue them!- or your romantic interst has been charmed/kidnapped/murdered- find who is responsible and make things right!- or your bid to join the kings court has finally paid off, he's requested an audience with you, to discuss an orc problem along the border of a small feifdom that he's going to bestow upon the PC's (provided he swears fealty to the king).

This worked for me as a GM and player, and works even better when you single out a "hack and slasher" to help you every once an a while..."watch the alley while i climb this gutter to the window of my beloved!, you can go once i'm in! thanks bud!"
High Octane
08-22-05, 09:36 AM I feel like we're playing Diablo or something, and that game gets tedious quickly.

I agree. Worst game in the Blizzard armada in my opinion.

Just tell your DM you would like some more interesting descriptions. It's his job to try to keep you interested in the game.
Thesen
08-22-05, 10:00 AM If it's REALLY tedious and the pther players don't want change there's only one thing you can do, my man. I don't know if you have all the core rule books or whatever else you might require, but I suggest spending the next month developing a campaign idea with almost nothing but outdoor adventures. Once you've designed this world / plot settings and are pretty confident with it write a short story or piece of history concerning the campaign's idea. Make it like a teaser - as if you're trying to sell something to someone. I think if you make it interesting enough and present it in a cool, mysterious way, the other players may want to play it. Now you get to control a world devoid of dungeon crawling!

By the way, I suggest letting your DM know you're not trying to replace him or anything. Ask him if he would want to take a break here and there.

Worst case scenario: They deny your idea and call you an idiot. In this case, at least you got to relieve some of your boredom, not to mention all the reading and creating you will do for a campaign setting will certainly increase your knowledge of the game and the rules.

Best Case Scenario: Your group of players praises you and builds a shrine in your honor! Maybe your campaign idea can be used by your DM if everyone likes it enough. Perhaps he can take the skeleton of it and make it his own.

Good luck!
Phrennzy
08-22-05, 12:28 PM Wait a minute - at least Diablo you had some plots. The Butcher, the Betrayer, finding mushrooms and anvils...

If anything, you could compare this with DOOM. THAT game had NO real story. But I loved it!

I like the idea of starting a business venture. As long as you have someone with whom you can give the reins to, since you will be off adventuring. Perhaps you can go into a joint venture?

Would it be possible for the DM to learn how to have 'dungeon' adventures outside of a dungeon? For instance, a group of abandoned tree houses, linked together by old rope bridges (some of which have or will fall). It's like a dungeon, but it's not.

Another one that I did and my players liked it a lot - I took the map from the old G2, Glacial Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl, and turned it into a forested valley with numerous caves on the sides. Different creatues in each cave, and the caves were not linked - they were one or two rooms tops. Plus there was adventure on the forest floor. Due to heavy rains, the floor was a muddy morass that slowed travel and prevented charging, running, and 5' step. made fights interesting.

Perhaps an open air dungeon - like ruins in the desert. The cieling has fallen away, leaving the entire complex open. The PCs can approach from anywhere, but the monsters can also hear a lot easier.

Ask the DM for a change in venue, if not dungeons.

And face the fact that you may need to find another group or make due with hack and slash mentality.
Shaken, not Stunned
08-22-05, 10:03 PM This sounds like a case of "Everyone is having fun but me, how do I make them change?"

I think you should be able to decipher from that what you should do. The above two posts are also very solid.
SonsOfKyuss
08-23-05, 04:57 PM I've already talked to my Dm and he says that the others seem to be more interested in diablo style of play.

One of the guys even calls people names when they talk in character. Why is he even here?

My question is why are you even there?

If you think the group is worth salvaging you might try to DM a game yourself, run a one shot adventure in the style you enjoy, and if everyone has fun maybe you can use that to convince the DM to run his games with less dungeons and cutscenes.

Is it possible that the DM doesn't know how to do it any better?
Shandrakor
08-23-05, 10:52 PM Hell, you don't care. The point is, they're in a murder mystery they can't just get out of to continue crawling.

Sure they can! Here's how...

Dwarf: Stupid #)($!*# shopkeepers..
Psion: We loot the shop & then leave town.
Meatshield: Then we go to another town, & 'accidentially' find their magic shopkeeper dead...

Random dungeon encounters included.

I've already talked to my Dm and he says that the others seem to be more interested in diablo style of play.

One of the guys even calls people names when they talk in character. Why is he even here?
Seriously dude -- go find a new group. You're the one that doesn't fit in; consider advertising on the bulletin board at your FLGS for a new group or taking up LARPing.
Fort deadly kick
08-24-05, 08:24 AM I've talked to the DM about possibly substituting for him with a small Ebberon mystery based adventure, and he says that after his campaign, another player already asked to do one, using the Eberron CS.

Although I'm not sure If I want to attend anyway, the player I've mentioned just makes me feel really bad about myself. His whole attitude just makes me feel horrible. He's an awful, rude, terrible and obnoxious player, but I've already set myself a reputation for making petty arguments go way out of proportion, so whenever I play with him I want tell him off, but at the same time I want to steer away from my roots as a pedantic arse. I feel like I'm in conflict with myself the whole time.

To give you a good idea of his personality, he still uses 'gay' as meaning 'sucks' Despite EVERONE in the group growing out of that at about the age of twelve. Whenever anyone asks him about it, he just says 'I dunno, it's just bad.' And then goes on to shout something derogatory about ass stabbers as a 'joke'. He's one of two people I know out of about 10 people who still holds this kind of ridiculous view. The other person is massivly insecure and basically hides behind a big front of agression and unpleasantries to everyone he meets. :rant:

This is what I mean. I ***** and complain about people, and It makes me feel like a horrible person afterwards. And he is like this all the time. The DM hates his dissmissive attutudes and lack of attention, but group won't want to throw him out, because in a tragic way, he enjoys the game, and the others don't seem fussed enough to kick him.

Oh well. There's always something with me. Wrong campaign, wrong playing style focus, wrong player. I need to learn to lump it I think.
Shandrakor
08-24-05, 09:22 AM To give you a good idea of his personality, he still uses 'gay' as meaning 'sucks' Despite EVERONE in the group growing out of that at about the age of twelve. Whenever anyone asks him about it, he just says 'I dunno, it's just bad.' And then goes on to shout something derogatory about ass stabbers as a 'joke'. He's one of two people I know out of about 10 people who still holds this kind of ridiculous view. The other person is massivly insecure and basically hides behind a big front of agression and unpleasantries to everyone he meets. :rant: Heck, we used gay that way in college.

This is what I mean. I ***** and complain about people, and It makes me feel like a horrible person afterwards. And he is like this all the time. The DM hates his dissmissive attutudes and lack of attention, but group won't want to throw him out, because in a tragic way, he enjoys the game, and the others don't seem fussed enough to kick him. A sibling of mine used to have a similar problem. What worked for her was, before she said anything, asking herself if it was True, Kind, & Necessary. If the answer wasn't yet to all 3 criterion, then she didn't say anything. She felt a lot better once she'd gotten used to the system.

Oh well. There's always something with me. Wrong campaign, wrong playing style focus, wrong player. I need to learn to lump it I think.Change your paradigm, change your life. :cool:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fort deadly kick 08-21-05, 01:22 PM	Does anyone have any advice for trying to lead my group out of cutscene, dungeon, cutscene, dungeon, cutscene, dungeon, etc? I feel like we're playing Diablo or something, and that game gets tedious quickly. I keep inventing skilled characters built for cities, or smart fighters made for open combats, or something other than random dungeoncrawling fighters and rogues. Even an ruined site or forest, anything but random rooms and creatures. We already have the Ebberon CS book and complete adventurer, how could I convince them to give it a go?
weasel fierce 08-21-05, 01:47 PM	Write adventures that doesnt take place in a dungeon. Investigation plots, interaction with NPC's, diplomatic missions, rival factions quarreling with each other etc. You're the DM. You're the one writing the scenarios
Fort deadly kick 08-21-05, 01:56 PM	Huh? No, I'm not the DM, i'm just a bit bored with the VG-esque Adventures, and I was wondering about ways of getting the grup to splash out a bit.
NinjaE 08-21-05, 01:58 PM	Well, what do you mean, cutscene, dungeon, cutscene-? If you mean, they're not playing out the time they spend in cities selling their phat lewt, try doing so. "DM: K, guys, after (a few days), you arrive at the gates of (city)(descriptive text). What do you want to do?" Then, when they go see "ye olde magic shoppe"(or wherever), "DM: As you enter the shop, you quickly get a feeling of "wrongness", heightened by the lack of the shopkeeper in the front room." When they call for the shopkeeper, "DM: At first, there's no sound as you await some sort of confirmation. Then, suddenly, you hear running, then a crashing sound, coming from the floor above." When the players go check it out, "DM: A grisly sight meets you as you climb the stairs to the private rooms of the shop; the shopkeeper lies, mutilated, in a pool of his own lifeblood. The window looking over the alley next to the shop has been shattered, and you catch a brief glimpse of (insert brief description of killer here) before he runs into the packed crowds in the street/turns a corner." And voila! A murder mystery, with the PCs as the only witnesses! Now, there are a lot of ways this could go, amongs them being: If the PCs actually roleplay(your description didn't say, but I assume they don't.), they could be approached by members of the assasins' guild, attempting to bribe them into keeping what they saw quiet. They refuse, leading to The assasins' guild could also simply silence them before they go to the watch/testify/whatever. Maybe they go vigilante on the killer? Hell, you don't care. The point is, they're in a murder mystery they can't just get out of to continue crawling. e Dammit! I'll need to rethink this...
Fort deadly kick 08-21-05, 02:05 PM	Maybe I could ask to DM a short adventure/module in Sharn. Reading the eberron CS, there's just so many factions and setting and possibly quests. emerald claw, city watch, paladins, mockery cultists, assasisns, houses, lord of blades, it's all good!
Templetroll 08-21-05, 07:33 PM	Maybe I could ask to DM a short adventure/module in Sharn. Reading the eberron CS, there's just so many factions and setting and possibly quests. emerald claw, city watch, paladins, mockery cultists, assasisns, houses, lord of blades, it's all good! Is the DM as excited about the Eberron book as you are? Have you talked to him about how you feel with the adventures he's been running?
Shaken, not Stunned 08-21-05, 08:17 PM	That second question is important. If you have not talked to your DM yet, what the hell are you doing here? Also, have you considered your DM wants you to RP, you simply aren't taking or making opportunities? Talk to people in town. Talk to the last orc and offer him a chance to surrender. Talk to your fellow party memebers. Hell, how can you not role play? If you want different types of objectives, tell your DM! How is he supposed to throw missions you want to take at you if you don't ask, or even declare your character is on the look-out for such missions?
Fort deadly kick 08-22-05, 05:08 AM	I've already talked to my Dm and he says that the others seem to be more interested in diablo style of play. One of the guys even calls people names when they talk in character. Why is he even here?
Red_Ninja 08-22-05, 08:09 AM	then you'll have to do you character development/ roleplaying on the sidelines for a while till they get jealous...trust me this works -For example use you growing adventuring fortune to invest in a merchant house (say 10,000gp investment and you garner proceeds equal to 200+5d20gp every month)- -or Use gather information to create and maintain a large network of fellow adventures and class based collegues, as use you network to find out about new adventures, buddies who need help/have gone missing, and recruiting firm for new henchmen -or begin pursuit of a noble/ difficult to catch romatic interest, with lots of sneaking under her/his balcony, passing notes, bribing guards, etc... -begin the groundwork for a political/noble career, start talking to lots of people, throwing parties, buying drinks, once the local nobles begin to realize that you have merit and standing, you'll be able to worm your way into the upper circles of the elite... Trust me, doing any (or all) of these things, or similar things may not full satiate your need for roleplaying, but as long as you keep it on the sidelines, you'll get some satisfaction and you'll keep the game going the way everyone seems to like it...eventually, the other PCs will notice your "side projects" and begin a few of their own- whether they do or not, its will be relatively easy for the DM to spin one of your (or a fellow PC's) side projects into an adventure for everyone...ie...a dragon has stolen you merchant shipment! retrieve it or suffer a huge financial loss as the merchant house falls to bankruptcy!- or your buddies that you keep in contact with haven't returned from their raid on the spider forest, lets go rescue them!- or your romantic interst has been charmed/kidnapped/murdered- find who is responsible and make things right!- or your bid to join the kings court has finally paid off, he's requested an audience with you, to discuss an orc problem along the border of a small feifdom that he's going to bestow upon the PC's (provided he swears fealty to the king). This worked for me as a GM and player, and works even better when you single out a "hack and slasher" to help you every once an a while..."watch the alley while i climb this gutter to the window of my beloved!, you can go once i'm in! thanks bud!"
High Octane 08-22-05, 09:36 AM	I feel like we're playing Diablo or something, and that game gets tedious quickly. I agree. Worst game in the Blizzard armada in my opinion. Just tell your DM you would like some more interesting descriptions. It's his job to try to keep you interested in the game.
Thesen 08-22-05, 10:00 AM	If it's REALLY tedious and the pther players don't want change there's only one thing you can do, my man. I don't know if you have all the core rule books or whatever else you might require, but I suggest spending the next month developing a campaign idea with almost nothing but outdoor adventures. Once you've designed this world / plot settings and are pretty confident with it write a short story or piece of history concerning the campaign's idea. Make it like a teaser - as if you're trying to sell something to someone. I think if you make it interesting enough and present it in a cool, mysterious way, the other players may want to play it. Now you get to control a world devoid of dungeon crawling! By the way, I suggest letting your DM know you're not trying to replace him or anything. Ask him if he would want to take a break here and there. Worst case scenario: They deny your idea and call you an idiot. In this case, at least you got to relieve some of your boredom, not to mention all the reading and creating you will do for a campaign setting will certainly increase your knowledge of the game and the rules. Best Case Scenario: Your group of players praises you and builds a shrine in your honor! Maybe your campaign idea can be used by your DM if everyone likes it enough. Perhaps he can take the skeleton of it and make it his own. Good luck!
Phrennzy 08-22-05, 12:28 PM	Wait a minute - at least Diablo you had some plots. The Butcher, the Betrayer, finding mushrooms and anvils... If anything, you could compare this with DOOM. THAT game had NO real story. But I loved it! I like the idea of starting a business venture. As long as you have someone with whom you can give the reins to, since you will be off adventuring. Perhaps you can go into a joint venture? Would it be possible for the DM to learn how to have 'dungeon' adventures outside of a dungeon? For instance, a group of abandoned tree houses, linked together by old rope bridges (some of which have or will fall). It's like a dungeon, but it's not. Another one that I did and my players liked it a lot - I took the map from the old G2, Glacial Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl, and turned it into a forested valley with numerous caves on the sides. Different creatues in each cave, and the caves were not linked - they were one or two rooms tops. Plus there was adventure on the forest floor. Due to heavy rains, the floor was a muddy morass that slowed travel and prevented charging, running, and 5' step. made fights interesting. Perhaps an open air dungeon - like ruins in the desert. The cieling has fallen away, leaving the entire complex open. The PCs can approach from anywhere, but the monsters can also hear a lot easier. Ask the DM for a change in venue, if not dungeons. And face the fact that you may need to find another group or make due with hack and slash mentality.
Shaken, not Stunned 08-22-05, 10:03 PM	This sounds like a case of "Everyone is having fun but me, how do I make them change?" I think you should be able to decipher from that what you should do. The above two posts are also very solid.
SonsOfKyuss 08-23-05, 04:57 PM	I've already talked to my Dm and he says that the others seem to be more interested in diablo style of play. One of the guys even calls people names when they talk in character. Why is he even here? My question is why are you even there? If you think the group is worth salvaging you might try to DM a game yourself, run a one shot adventure in the style you enjoy, and if everyone has fun maybe you can use that to convince the DM to run his games with less dungeons and cutscenes. Is it possible that the DM doesn't know how to do it any better?
Shandrakor 08-23-05, 10:52 PM	Hell, you don't care. The point is, they're in a murder mystery they can't just get out of to continue crawling. Sure they can! Here's how... Dwarf: Stupid #)($!*# shopkeepers.. Psion: We loot the shop & then leave town. Meatshield: Then we go to another town, & 'accidentially' find their magic shopkeeper dead... Random dungeon encounters included. I've already talked to my Dm and he says that the others seem to be more interested in diablo style of play. One of the guys even calls people names when they talk in character. Why is he even here? Seriously dude -- go find a new group. You're the one that doesn't fit in; consider advertising on the bulletin board at your FLGS for a new group or taking up LARPing.
Fort deadly kick 08-24-05, 08:24 AM	I've talked to the DM about possibly substituting for him with a small Ebberon mystery based adventure, and he says that after his campaign, another player already asked to do one, using the Eberron CS. Although I'm not sure If I want to attend anyway, the player I've mentioned just makes me feel really bad about myself. His whole attitude just makes me feel horrible. He's an awful, rude, terrible and obnoxious player, but I've already set myself a reputation for making petty arguments go way out of proportion, so whenever I play with him I want tell him off, but at the same time I want to steer away from my roots as a pedantic arse. I feel like I'm in conflict with myself the whole time. To give you a good idea of his personality, he still uses 'gay' as meaning 'sucks' Despite EVERONE in the group growing out of that at about the age of twelve. Whenever anyone asks him about it, he just says 'I dunno, it's just bad.' And then goes on to shout something derogatory about ass stabbers as a 'joke'. He's one of two people I know out of about 10 people who still holds this kind of ridiculous view. The other person is massivly insecure and basically hides behind a big front of agression and unpleasantries to everyone he meets. :rant: This is what I mean. I ***** and complain about people, and It makes me feel like a horrible person afterwards. And he is like this all the time. The DM hates his dissmissive attutudes and lack of attention, but group won't want to throw him out, because in a tragic way, he enjoys the game, and the others don't seem fussed enough to kick him. Oh well. There's always something with me. Wrong campaign, wrong playing style focus, wrong player. I need to learn to lump it I think.
Shandrakor 08-24-05, 09:22 AM	To give you a good idea of his personality, he still uses 'gay' as meaning 'sucks' Despite EVERONE in the group growing out of that at about the age of twelve. Whenever anyone asks him about it, he just says 'I dunno, it's just bad.' And then goes on to shout something derogatory about ass stabbers as a 'joke'. He's one of two people I know out of about 10 people who still holds this kind of ridiculous view. The other person is massivly insecure and basically hides behind a big front of agression and unpleasantries to everyone he meets. :rant: Heck, we used gay that way in college. This is what I mean. I ***** and complain about people, and It makes me feel like a horrible person afterwards. And he is like this all the time. The DM hates his dissmissive attutudes and lack of attention, but group won't want to throw him out, because in a tragic way, he enjoys the game, and the others don't seem fussed enough to kick him. A sibling of mine used to have a similar problem. What worked for her was, before she said anything, asking herself if it was True, Kind, & Necessary. If the answer wasn't yet to all 3 criterion, then she didn't say anything. She felt a lot better once she'd gotten used to the system. Oh well. There's always something with me. Wrong campaign, wrong playing style focus, wrong player. I need to learn to lump it I think.Change your paradigm, change your life. :cool: