Post/Author/DateTime	Post
James18 12-18-05, 07:14 AM	From what I read/heard a monk can use either their natural attack damage or the damage listed for their level/size. What about flurry. Can a lizzardman monk flurry when using their natural damage? Say Claw/Claw/Bite/Bite. Taking the -2 to all attacks. Damage 1d3/1d3/1d4/1d4. If so then a druid wildshaped into an animal could also flurry with levels of monk. :cheer: What about items that can be worn in your new shape. :thinks: I *heard* that if it can fit on your new form then you can choose if it does or doesn't merge into your body. So if this is all true.....then with that nice monk belt that ups your unarmed damage by 5 monk levels and a 8th druid 2nd level monk would be doing 2d6 damage per attack in a large from. 1d6 base ups to 1d8 from belt ups to 2d6 from large size change....I think books are not at hand for verify. Also gaining a fat wis bonus to ac, and a speed increase. I forgot what the belt was called though. I was going to post this in the charter optomizing board but am unsure of some of the rules. So could the monk flurry using natural attacks?
Moon-Lancer 12-18-05, 09:22 AM	I really couldent tell you. I think the rules get slightly muddy when it comes to what your doing. Not that what you doing is in anyway wrong, but your going to find many people with many diffrent opinions. Although, i think that a druid is still going to be a stronger build if you dont mind me saying so. As I see it. Anythign with a waist or midsection can use a belt, so it would not meld into your new form but it would reshape to fit your new body. I think natural wepaons are probably not monk weapons, so you probably couldent flurry with them, and natural attack damage is not the same thing as as unarmed strike damage. A monk get benifit from things that increase a natural attack, like feats and spells. But i dont think that line is meaning that they can actualy use a natural attack as an unarmed attack. I would still let a player do what your trying to do though, even though i dont think thats how the rules work. I might not let you do it in a ghestalt game. I would have to think about it. But in a normal game its not too unbalanceing becuse your hurting your caster levels, and i think that the charicter would be stronger with them, rather then geting a tiney bit extra damage with flurry.
Surgo 12-18-05, 05:18 PM	Why even bother doing this? Just go straight monk and drink a potion of enlarge person (or get a fanged ring), or straight druid and use your natural attacks. Both are stronger than what you're proposing.
20goingon1232 12-18-05, 05:47 PM	From what I read/heard a monk can use either their natural attack damage or the damage listed for their level/size. What about flurry. Can a lizzardman monk flurry when using their natural damage? Say Claw/Claw/Bite/Bite. Taking the -2 to all attacks. Damage 1d3/1d3/1d4/1d4. If so then a druid wildshaped into an animal could also flurry with levels of monk. :cheer: What about items that can be worn in your new shape. :thinks: I *heard* that if it can fit on your new form then you can choose if it does or doesn't merge into your body. So if this is all true.....then with that nice monk belt that ups your unarmed damage by 5 monk levels and a 8th druid 2nd level monk would be doing 2d6 damage per attack in a large from. 1d6 base ups to 1d8 from belt ups to 2d6 from large size change....I think books are not at hand for verify. Also gaining a fat wis bonus to ac, and a speed increase. I forgot what the belt was called though. I was going to post this in the charter optomizing board but am unsure of some of the rules. So could the monk flurry using natural attacks? No, you cannot Flurry with natural attacks. This was addressed in the FAQ. You cannot even Flurry with slam attacks. What you CAN do is Flurry AND stack natural attacks on top of that. So, for a level 1 lizardman monk with 10 Str and 10 Dex, you will get: 2 Flurry attacks + 3 natural attacks = 5 attacks a round with the following attack bonuses: -2/-2/-7/-7/-7
shadowfox628 12-18-05, 06:27 PM	I'd like to state that you're just screwing up your character. There are only a few classes out there that you can multiclass when you're a Monk and NOT be restricted for gaining more Monk levels, and Druid is certainly not one of them.
Millennium 12-19-05, 08:13 AM	Generally speaking, this isn't allowed: the martial arts of the monk tradition don't take into account things that most humanoids don't have in the first place. That said, I usually allow unusual monks to take feats which will allow this, representing their ability to adapt the martial arts they've been trained in to their own body types. It's been said, after all, that the best martial art is the one you've adapted to your own body. Example: ---------- Flurry of Claws Prerequisites: Ability to make a claw attack, Int 14 Benefit: You may use your claw attack as a special monk weapon for the purposes of Flurry of Blows and other monk class abilities. When you flurry with your claws, the strikes take on any properties -including damage- which your claw attacks normally have. In addition, your claws now count as both natural and manufactured weapons for the purposes of spells and effects, just as your unarmed strikes do. ---------- The big disadvantage to this is that you don't get your unarmed damage, since you use your claws as weapons, not unarmed strikes. However, if your claws have special properties (such as being Good-aligned for DR purposes, like a leonal's claws) then it can be advantageous in some circumstances.
babysamurai 12-20-05, 05:49 AM	No, you cannot Flurry with natural attacks. This was addressed in the FAQ. You cannot even Flurry with slam attacks. What you CAN do is Flurry AND stack natural attacks on top of that. So, for a level 1 lizardman monk with 10 Str and 10 Dex, you will get: 2 Flurry attacks + 3 natural attacks = 5 attacks a round with the following attack bonuses: -2/-2/-7/-7/-7 Ah, finally someone who gets it! I have a great Illithid Monk/Sorcerer NPC that stacks Flurry with the 4 tentacle attacks. Contrary to popular opinion, the FAQ is a beautiful thing. ...don't forget to take Improved Natural Attack.
James18 12-20-05, 09:09 AM	What I was thinking was Human 8th level druid 2nd level monk. Go Dire lion or Dire Ape. Natural Spell casting feat, that cool belt that ups unarmed damage by 5 monk levels and Multiattack. :cool: I just think it would be funny to see a Dire Ape going ninja on people asses. :mymy: Feel the power of Monkey Fu.....with spells. Why I wanted to add in monk levels to a druid build and loss levels as a spell caster was because I just thought that the +4-6 bonus you can get from your wisdom is just to good to pass up. :lightbulb I was just curious what slots can be used in animal forms. Some things are no brainer like armor. But what about belts? Hell I've seen dogs with sweaters on so even some clothes might work. And If they are magical then why can't they be worn, since they should resize to fit the new form. Oh well I think i'm trying to munchkin. :plotting: Right so -2 for the flurry and another -5 for the natural attacks A +16 BA with 10str 10dex with flurry and 3 natural attacks = +14/+14/+9/+4/-1 and +9+9+9 assuming no feats. Thanks again. :devil:
20goingon1232 12-20-05, 03:07 PM	Your Flurry + NAs BAB is slightly off: 14/14/14/9/4/-1 and 9/9/9 However, if you are going to do that, might I suggest you take INA + Multiattack + the TWF tree. You see, you can Flurry + TWF + NA. At least according to the FAQ. This will impose a truckload of penalties on you, but you can do get an insane amount of attacks: Assuming BAB = 16 and no other modifiers Primary "hand" = 12/12/12/7/2/-3 Off-"hand" = 12/7/2 Natural attacks = 10/10 (it is very hard to get more than 2 attacks unless you are playing an Illithid Monk...)