Post/Author/DateTime	Post
holylink718 02-21-07, 08:21 AM	I was thinking about playing a duskblade pretty soon, and I was wondering, what are some good duskblade builds? I'm not trying to optimize him to be the strongest character in the group, but I don't want a pathetic character either. I'm looking for people who've played duskblades and/or people who haven't who just have some imput, so feel free to respond. Oh, and I don't play nongood characters. Any ideas? Edit: I don't know what level he'll be, but he'll either be a replacement for my wizard (6th level now, he'll probably be higher, but you never know) or he'll start at 1st level. I was mostly thinking of human, but I'm willing to think about other races.
Devlonir 02-21-07, 08:53 AM	Id take human to start with.. extra skill and feat are useful for a duskblade who has a lack in both. Remember that you deliver touch attack spells with your weapon? and that you can crit with touch attack spells as well.. So I'd take a high crit chance build (rapier or falchion) Strength isnt your most important stat, dex and int are! Dex for your AC because you can cast in medium armor best without taking a feat as well as to raise your worst save (Reflex). So rapier is a nice choice because it is finessable. You need a high int because your spellcasting is int based and you get lvl 5 spells at best, but from lvl 3 there are some nice ones that require saves (dimension hop and halt is a nice combo with your cleric's blade barrier for example) and your disintegrate is lvl 5. If you have just 15 int (enough to get all your spells) your disintegrate DC is 17.. too many opponents will make that save at that level. About spell choice.. duskblade have a few nice damage spells but have a lot of tactical spells as well (dimension hop and halt are good spells that can give you just that edge in combat) Also the lvl 1 spell blade of blood is a must have.. increase your next hit with 1d6 which becomes 3d6 if you take 5 damage. Your best damaging spell to combine with your melee attacks is shocking grasp (5d6 electricity damage at lvl 10) Which also increases your to hit against metal armored opponents. My current Duskblade (lvl 14) relies a lot on the spells i just stated.. a normal attack with a buffed blade of blood (3d6) and shocking grasp (5d6) with the rapier (1d6) comes down to 9d6 damage on a hit. double that for a crit. And you are able to do that from lvl 10! That is a high damage duskblade build that can replace a blasting wizard or sorcerer easy when it comes to taking down single opponents. There are other options of course, but i have no xp with them.
Hariman 02-21-07, 09:18 PM	About Shocking Grasp: "Your successful melee touch attack deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 5d6). When delivering the jolt, you gain a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor (or made out of metal, carrying a lot of metal, or the like)." Shocking Grasp is damage PER CASTER LEVEL, so you can do 5d6 at 5th level. I'd recommend taking a sword and board build. You can have a good AC, you'll be decet with the sword (especially when you channel spells) and you can cast spells easily if you take the "Somatic Weapon" feat. Avoid Power Attack and True Strike if you don't want to outclass your party. Power Attack + Two handed weaponry + Truestrike AND Arcane Channeling = an excess of damage. A reach weapon and Improved Buckler Defense (DON'T take improved trip or power attack) are the best idea I've got.
The Livewire 02-21-07, 09:49 PM	Arcane Channelling doesn't double the spell damage on the crit. The text reads 'The attack deals damage normally then the effect of the spell is resolved.' [Emphasis mine] In essence the blade crits, then discharges the spell. Blade of blood is also not doubled on a crit. It is dice of damage added to the blade. Extra dice aren't doubled. As to the original posting. Yes, Dex and Int are your friends. I prefer the 'classics' Ray of enfeeblement and Resist energy as my first level spells. Later I pick up Shocking Grasp and True Strike. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=795381 This link has another post showing some of my preferred options for the DB.
Devlonir 02-22-07, 02:50 AM	We had the same discussion about that line in our gaming group. If you read the rules the way you do.. a Duskblade is actually worse then normal casters with touch attacks. Because you first resolve the attack (with which your touch attack becomes a weapon attack and actually really sucks compared to a normal touch attack) and maybe confirm a crit there. Then you get the spell damage which will be resolved without an attack roll. So.. no chance on a crit with a touch attack spell! So, what does that mean? You have to deliver touch attack spells with a weapon attack, so the AC to hit is a lot higher and then have no chance to crit with it because you get no attack roll for the spell! That roll was already used for the weapon attack... Oh and a Duskblade gets a lot less and less powerful spells as a wizard of his level. Because this simply sucks! Especially at higher levels, where lvl 9 spells can do a lot more damage then a duskblade crit but then in areas! So me and my DM agreed that a Duskblade should have their touch attack spells also get a crit on a weapon crit. This is just to make the class on par at higher levels.
Hack and Smasher 02-22-07, 12:21 PM	Personally i recomend a polearm of any discription since you lack the hps to sword and board and reach is a godsend a low levels remember to use spells and not to be afriad of using you abilties. Also its an awesome dip class.
holylink718 02-22-07, 04:55 PM	sweet! keep 'em comming, peeps. lol. thanks!
The Livewire 02-22-07, 09:05 PM	Hmm just thought of another idea. Duskblade with a whip. You can arcane channel 15 feet away, and make it a trip attempt. 5th level ray of enfeeblement as they close, then a 5d6 shocking grasp and a trip.
Devlonir 02-23-07, 02:50 AM	reach weapon can be worth it.. but duskblade gets a spell that increases reach with 5ft as well.. so unless you really need 15ft reach. i like the whip idea.. maybe I'm gonna put that in my current duskblade as well.
holylink718 02-23-07, 04:40 PM	Hmm just thought of another idea. Duskblade with a whip. You can arcane channel 15 feet away, and make it a trip attempt. 5th level ray of enfeeblement as they close, then a 5d6 shocking grasp and a trip. hmmm...not a bad idea.
DreadArchon 02-23-07, 09:05 PM	That's it. I'm making a Whipblade. Also: Because this simply sucks! Especially at higher levels, where lvl 9 spells can do a lot more damage then a duskblade crit but then in areas! So me and my DM agreed that a Duskblade should have their touch attack spells also get a crit on a weapon crit. This is just to make the class on par at higher levels. Well, the Duskblade can deliver one spell multiple times. He doesn't get much that's good for this (unless you for some reason rule that "Touch" can also mean "Ranged Touch," in which case he gets Polar Ray several times per turn), but it does help.
UAMDB 02-23-07, 09:32 PM	You need to take the feats that allow you to take Whirlwind attack. Use the spiked chain. At 13th(I think) you can channel as a full round action. 1)Quick Cast Streach weapon(spiked chain) 2)Use Whirlwind attack and channel Vampiric touch. Lets say under good conditions you can threaten 5 opponets. You hit all five and they take addition 6d6 from the vampiric touch, and you gain 30d6 temp hit points. Thats just nasty. You need to be human to get the feats alittle bit easier.
Hariman 02-24-07, 12:14 AM	You need to take the feats that allow you to take Whirlwind attack. Use the spiked chain. At 13th(I think) you can channel as a full round action. 1)Quick Cast Streach weapon(spiked chain) 2)Use Whirlwind attack and channel Vampiric touch. Lets say under good conditions you can threaten 5 opponets. You hit all five and they take addition 6d6 from the vampiric touch, and you gain 30d6 temp hit points. Thats just nasty. You need to be human to get the feats a little bit easier. Ah, no. The duskblade would only gain 6d6 HP. Temporary hit points don't stack. And, arguably, you should only roll the Vampiric Touch damage ONCE. (The same for any other channeled spell) This is because it's only one channeling of the spell that hits multiple times. Plus, rolling 6d6 once instead of 5 times saves time. We had the same discussion about that line in our gaming group. If you read the rules the way you do.. a Duskblade is actually worse then normal casters with touch attacks. Because you first resolve the attack (with which your touch attack becomes a weapon attack and actually really sucks compared to a normal touch attack) and maybe confirm a crit there. Then you get the spell damage which will be resolved without an attack roll. So.. no chance on a crit with a touch attack spell! So, what does that mean? You have to deliver touch attack spells with a weapon attack, so the AC to hit is a lot higher and then have no chance to crit with it because you get no attack roll for the spell! That roll was already used for the weapon attack... Oh and a Duskblade gets a lot less and less powerful spells as a wizard of his level. Because this simply sucks! Especially at higher levels, where lvl 9 spells can do a lot more damage then a duskblade crit but then in areas! So me and my DM agreed that a Duskblade should have their touch attack spells also get a crit on a weapon crit. This is just to make the class on par at higher levels. That's why you max out concentration. That way you can just CAST THE SPELL. That negates the high AC and lets the touch spell hit. (Barring "Can't touch me" types) A duskblade can also survive in melee much longer than a sorcerer or a wizard due to better HP/AC. Additionally, certain duskblade spells can increase the chance to hit. (Sure Strike, etc) Plus, weapons can be enhanced with goodies like flaming/shocking/glowing brilliance. Especially Glowing Brilliance. No DM worth his salt should EVER give a duskblade a glowing brilliance weapon of ANY kind.
UAMDB 02-24-07, 07:32 AM	[QUOTE=Hariman;11573318]Ah, no. The duskblade would only gain 6d6 HP. Temporary hit points don't stack. And, arguably, you should only roll the Vampiric Touch damage ONCE. (The same for any other channeled spell) This is because it's only one channeling of the spell that hits multiple times. Plus, rolling 6d6 once instead of 5 times saves time. QUOTE] So if a duskblade cast Vampiric touch in round one, and then cast it again on round two against a different person the duskblade would not gain the temp hit points for the second casting? Nothing in the Vampiric touch spell saying temmp hit points do not stack. Also the temp hit points section does not say they can not stack. The duskblade full attack channel says each opponet hit takes the effect of the spell. If I am misreading the rules please point to a page number. As far as rolling once, and all targets take the same damage. It does spead the game up. Its really up to the DM which way they prefer. I would only roll once.
The Livewire 02-24-07, 10:22 AM	Bonuses from the same source don't stack. The Temp HP are bonus from the spell, They don't stack.
OleOneEye 02-24-07, 01:04 PM	My current Duskblade enjoys having Wild Talent and Psionic Weapon for extra damage on top of Shocking Grasp. In the past, I have enjoyed taking archer feats to be a ranged threat in addition to the solid channeling damage when the enemy closes.
brucejohn22 08-13-07, 12:26 PM	Ah, no. No DM worth his salt should EVER give a duskblade a glowing brilliance weapon of ANY kind. Can some one please tell me where I can find this glowing brilliance weapon? IMO: I think that versatile caster out of PHB2 is a great feat for the dustblade
Hariman 08-13-07, 12:47 PM	Can some one please tell me where I can find this glowing brilliance weapon? IMO: I think that versatile caster out of PHB2 is a great feat for the dustblade Glowing Brilliance is one of the weapon enchantments out of the DMG. The problem is, a DM needs to give you one or you need to get access in LG. And I can't recall seeing or hearing of Glowing Brilliance. Plus, Getting a GB weapon means you need a second "anti undead" weapon, as GB is useless against undead. EDIT: I mean Brilliant Energy, not Glowing Brilliance. It's a +4 bonus as it is, so it's NOT going to be easy to afford even if you do get access.
Ace_of_time 08-13-07, 05:54 PM	Hmm just thought of another idea. Duskblade with a whip. You can arcane channel 15 feet away, and make it a trip attempt. 5th level ray of enfeeblement as they close, then a 5d6 shocking grasp and a trip. I would go whip dagger so you could damage armored people to. With the DM permission you could make a light whip dagger with 10' reach and go TWF with them. Don't forget tranmuting just for fun.
Fatalis_902 08-13-07, 08:15 PM	Where is this "Versatile Caster" feat, and what does it do?
Ace_of_time 08-13-07, 08:27 PM	Where is this "Versatile Caster" feat, and what does it do?RDr it lets you cast a higher level spell with two lower level spell slots.
Calabozo 08-13-07, 08:41 PM	Bonuses from the same source don't stack. The Temp HP are bonus from the spell, They don't stack. I dont think temporary hit points are bonus of any kind. And here is the response of the sage regarding chaneling and critical hits: Q: Dear Sage, If a duskblade scores a critical hit when channeling a spell through a melee attack, is the spell’s damage multiplied just like the weapon’s? --Dan A: The rules aren’t as clear as they could be, but the Sage is inclined to say no. Here’s the key sentence, from the PHB II, page 20: “If the attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved.” If you score a critical hit, the attack deals the normal (critical) damage. Then the spell resolves normally, but it’s just a rider effect applied due to the successful attack roll—you’re not actually using the spell in the normal manner, so it can’t score a critical hit.
WombleHunter 08-13-07, 09:03 PM	They mean "Brilliant Energy". The channelled spell is not doubled on a crit.
Chrono Nexus 08-15-07, 06:44 AM	Just for kicks, make an elven duskblade that prestiges into arcane archer. It would be conceptually cool that your character can channel spells into both his ranged and melee strikes, and I'm sure a little work could turn it into a powerful build.
Hariman 08-15-07, 10:00 AM	Just for kicks, make an elven duskblade that prestiges into arcane archer. It would be conceptually cool that your character can channel spells into both his ranged and melee strikes, and I'm sure a little work could turn it into a powerful build. Couldn't you toss in Spellsword and gain the ability to channel two spells in one round? And then you could buy a Spell Storing Weapon and get THREE spells in one round. And you could add in a quick cast True Strike and power attack, ending up with a massive amount of damage in one hit. Although, that might not work. The channel spell abilities of Spellsword and Duskblade might clash.
runestar 08-15-07, 10:37 AM	Here is what I could dig up... Duskblade handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=837888) Guide to Duskblades (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D18443%26highlight%3 Dguide%20duskblades) Optimizing Duskblades (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=637776) Enjoy.:)
Arminel 08-15-07, 02:29 PM	My current favorite Duskblade build is Duskblade 17/Fighter 2/Eldritch Knight 1. You get 5th level spells, Spell Power +4, Quick Cast 3/day, all of the Armored Mage, Arcane Channeling (Full Attack), and three extra feats to boot. The Fighter/Knight levels should not be taken before Lv13. You want AC (Full Attack) as soon as possible. Personally, I like Duskblades with reach weapons. The whip is initially a good idea, until you realize that it doesn' threaten any squares. Spiked Chain, undoubtedly, is an excellent choice. Large amounts of area threatened, can trip at range, +2 to disarm attempts, 2d4 damage, 2x crit. One of my favorites (you said you didn't want to put a stranglehold on damage output, but might as well put it out there) is to take Arcane Disciple (Complete Divine) with the Strength domain. First level, you get Enlarge Person. Reach, Large size, reach, +2 str, -2 dex, -1 Attack/AC. Pick a greatsword at first, you've got a 3d6 Greatsword at first level. Third level spells, you get Magic Vestment, and fourth level gives you Spell Immunity. Spell Immunity against Ray of Enfeeblement is a great choice, so is Enervate, Phantasmal Killer, and a number of other goodies you should already have. Fifth level (earliest at Lv17) will get you Righteous Might. The last class I've looked at for Duskblades is the Dragon Disciple. Four levels will get you +4 to strength, Claws and Bite natural weapon, innate Natural Armor bonus +2, a 2d8 Breath Weapon, and three bonus spells. A fifth level gets you another bonus spell and 30-ft. Blindsense.
Drag0nUL 08-15-07, 03:42 PM	I don't want to discourage anyone from playing a duskblade, but I think you should put aside any hope of building a really powerful one. While this class is quite strong in the early levels, it lacks the punch to comete with any dedicated battle spellcaster (like cleric, druid or a decent gish) past level 7-8. Don't get me wrong, I really like the flavor of the class but as far as I've seen in the games I've played, as you progress in levels, they tend to become less and less powerful compared to the rest of the party. If you are intent on building a powerful duskblade, I suggest picking a naturally psionic race and make a build based around greater psionic weapon and leap attack(you might have to get a few levels of fighter in order to get all the feats ASAP). Also get a Belt of Battle(MIC). In combat you can: use belt of battle to get an extra move action to become psionicaly focused, quick cast true strike and then charge with full power attack and leap attack.
Ace_of_time 08-15-07, 05:06 PM	You could go Monkey grip.
Comus 08-15-07, 05:50 PM	You could go Monkey grip. He could also take Toughness with every feat. Monkey Grip just isn't a very good feat.
wizarddog 08-16-07, 03:15 AM	One of the interesting things I found with the Duskblade is that they have Sense Motive as a class skill. Seems like that would allow them to advance is some interesting prestige classes. :cool:
Ferol, Debtor of Torm 08-16-07, 09:33 AM	About Shocking Grasp: I'd recommend taking a sword and board build. You can have a good AC, you'll be decet with the sword (especially when you channel spells) and you can cast spells easily if you take the "Somatic Weapon" feat. What feat are you talking about? What does it do and what book is it from?
Hariman 08-16-07, 01:13 PM	What feat are you talking about? What does it do and what book is it from? Somatic Weaponry is a feat from the PHB 2. It lets a caster type character use a weapon or similarly sized object to trace the somatic components of a spell with the weapon. So a character with Somatic Weaponry doesn't need to have a free hand, which means a duskblade can wield a Sword and Shield and cast somatic component spells. Add in Eschew Materials and the character doesn't need to worry about material components either. One of the interesting things I found with the Duskblade is that they have Sense Motive as a class skill. Seems like that would allow them to advance is some interesting prestige classes. :cool: Which prestige classes do you mean? He could also take Toughness with every feat. Monkey Grip just isn't a very good feat. But a Duskblade can take Monkey Grip after he's gotten Arcane Strike and only use it while arcane striking. Or he can only use the larger weapon when the enemy has low AC. If he can get himself enlarged and quick cast "Bull's Strength" on himself, that jump in damage will be worth it. But, Monkey grip isn't an "all the time" feat. I should know, I tried it on one character and it was horrible, because all of the enemies in the adventure had breastplates and shields, so I missed extra times because of it. But against low AC enemies, it was FUN to roll 3d6+4. On a different note, I had an odd idea: Has anybody considered Rogue 1/Duskblade 6/Unseen Seer 3/Duskblade 2/Unseen Seer 1/Duskblade 1/Unseen Seer 1, in that order. You get slightly worse hit points, but you gain 3d6 Sneak Attack and a number of other abilities from unseen seer. Not to mention a decent number of uses of Swift Invisibility and other good spells. And you can still quick cast twice a day. Not to mention Grave Strike and the potential to get Hunter's Eye.
Ace_of_time 08-17-07, 02:52 AM	He could also take Toughness with every feat. Monkey Grip just isn't a very good feat.Why not?
Hariman 08-17-07, 03:16 PM	Why not? Because you take a -2 on all attack rolls with a large monkey gripped weapon for a minor increase in damage. Generally, the increase in damage is only 2 to 3.5 points of damage (on average.) Compared with Power Attacking for 2, (Two Handed, that's an increase of 4 damage.) it's not really worth it. Especially when you get mid to high AC enemies that make you miss more often because of the penalty. Now, one handing a Dwarven Waraxe or a Bastard Sword can be good, as the damage increase is 3.5 for monkey grip and 2 for power attack. But you'll still miss more often. Of course, you could always just carry a normal version of the Monkey Grip Weapon for when you don't want to take the -2 penalty.
VanGrue 08-22-07, 05:18 PM	Would it be possible to interpret Monkey Grip in such a way as to allow Medium two-handers to be wielded in one hand? Greatsword and heavy shield appeals to me., though so too does dual-wielding greatswords, or a greatclub and a greatsword for the ol' Slash-n-bash. :D Otherwise, Somatic Weaponry is nice, though getting an animated shield deals with all of these problems for a +2 mod bonus to price.
Hariman 08-22-07, 06:51 PM	Would it be possible to interpret Monkey Grip in such a way as to allow Medium two-handers to be wielded in one hand? Greatsword and heavy shield appeals to me., though so too does dual-wielding greatswords, or a greatclub and a greatsword for the ol' Slash-n-bash. :D Otherwise, Somatic Weaponry is nice, though getting an animated shield deals with all of these problems for a +2 mod bonus to price. Sorry, but no. Monkey Grip only lets a character wield a larger weapon, it doesn't change anything about HOW you wield it. So a two handed weapon stays two handed. Getting ACCESS to the Animated property is the hard part. Hmmm. Kobold Duskblade. It's just twisted enough to work.
VanGrue 08-23-07, 02:45 AM	Getting ACCESS to the Animated property is the hard part. I guess I'm too much of a newbie to understand this. It's been suggested on multiple threads that one could get a shield Animated. Plus, it's a standard magic shield property listed in the DMG. Why is it particularly difficult to access?
Hariman 08-23-07, 08:39 AM	I guess I'm too much of a newbie to understand this. It's been suggested on multiple threads that one could get a shield Animated. Plus, it's a standard magic shield property listed in the DMG. Why is it particularly difficult to access? Hang on a sec, this isn't the LG characters forum. I really needto surf outside of LG more often. In Living Greyhawk, weapon enchantments need campaign documentation for a character to buy them. BUT, you're in a home game, so it's just a matter of talking the DM into giving your character an animated shield. Sorry about that. An alternative before your character gets an animated shield is to wear a buckler. With a buckler and a 2 handed weapon you can boost your AC as much as a light shield and still wield a two handed weapon. And, if you dont' want to take the -1 penalty, you can just state that you don't take the AC bonus from the buckler, so you shouldn't take the -1 penalty.
runestar 08-23-07, 10:27 AM	You could just wield a large longsword in 1 hand and call it a greatsword...:P
Hariman 08-23-07, 10:21 PM	You could just wield a large longsword in 1 hand and call it a greatsword...:P If you wield a large longsword with a medium character, you must wield it as a two handed weapon AND take a -2 penalty. Unless you have Monkey Grip.
VanGrue 08-24-07, 09:42 AM	Hang on a sec, this isn't the LG characters forum. I really needto surf outside of LG more often. In Living Greyhawk, weapon enchantments need campaign documentation for a character to buy them. BUT, you're in a home game, so it's just a matter of talking the DM into giving your character an animated shield. Sorry about that. An alternative before your character gets an animated shield is to wear a buckler. With a buckler and a 2 handed weapon you can boost your AC as much as a light shield and still wield a two handed weapon. And, if you dont' want to take the -1 penalty, you can just state that you don't take the AC bonus from the buckler, so you shouldn't take the -1 penalty. Thanks for the clarification!
Ace_of_time 08-24-07, 06:34 PM	Because you take a -2 on all attack rolls with a large monkey gripped weapon for a minor increase in damage. Generally, the increase in damage is only 2 to 3.5 points of damage (on average.) Compared with Power Attacking for 2, (Two Handed, that's an increase of 4 damage.) it's not really worth it. Especially when you get mid to high AC enemies that make you miss more often because of the penalty. Now, one handing a Dwarven Waraxe or a Bastard Sword can be good, as the damage increase is 3.5 for monkey grip and 2 for power attack. But you'll still miss more often. Of course, you could always just carry a normal version of the Monkey Grip Weapon for when you don't want to take the -2 penalty. I know that. I use it for bows and crossbow. -2 on ranged for 2d6 instead of 1d8 is OK for me. Besides at higher levels -2 does hurt to much. My wife uses it with her minotaur. she use +8 instead of +10 for her sword. we use monster classes she just got large size and invested in huge sword. She doesn't really care about missing more often.