Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gogles 09-26-06, 12:30 PM	Starting a new campaign with my group. I have no idea what the campaign will be like, or what my friends will play as. What I'm aiming at is a spellcaster that has melee abilities aswell. Druid seems to be doing that, but I don't like Druid...and I like Wizard. If you can still help me decide between the two, please do :) If you can't, tell me why. P.S- I know these race/class combos are....weird....But that's what I want!
KnaveofClubs 09-26-06, 01:16 PM	You could also try bards or clerics, though bards would require a little more effort in trying to make a combat build. If anything else you could multiclass. The five best classes for this are Fighter, rogue, cleric, wizard, sorcerer. These four classes all get either a massive amount of skills or feats or they are extremely versitile. A fighter/ wizard or fighter/sorcerer might be what your looking for with fighter/wizard fitting in with dwarven ideology better. EDIT: You don't even have to have close class levels either since your favored class is fighter. No exp penalties.
ShubNiggurath 09-26-06, 02:01 PM	Dwarf? I am not an optimizer AT ALL but you could try: 1)The Dwarven smasher Dwarf cleric (going inquisitor and then, ASAP, contemplative or RSoP) starting domains: travel and war (dwarven waraxe) Go axe and shield + DMM persistant only if you feel cheesy. Consider that, due to the -2 cha and the 1 feat less compared to human you are never going to be as cheesy as a human cleric 2)Druid 20. Two words for you: the best. You are simply going to be the best in all roles besides trapfinding (and you have summons/animal companion for that) Go for summoning feats (augment summoning/ashbound/rashemi elemental summoning) or h2h feats (improved grapple, improved natural attack, multiattack)
CryoSilver 09-26-06, 03:04 PM	Dwarves make great wizards, IMO. They get bonuses to their saves, more hp and some bonuses to resist various other effects. Don't nelgect that attack bonus vs orcs and goblinoids, who will probably be fairly common in the beginning of the game; it applies to spell attack rolls as well.
Ironferret 09-26-06, 06:18 PM	Gold Dwarf , LN, druid hands down I loved that Pickle Boldershoulder from the Cleric Quintet books yep him and Ivan rock Green beard and everything.
pres_man 09-27-06, 01:08 AM	Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight #
Chainsaw 09-27-06, 01:10 AM	Honestly go with what you will have more fun playing. If you don't like druids, don't do it! You'll only be annoyed the whole time playing that you didn't pick a wizard. If you want some melee abilites multiclass with fighter and go Eldritch Knight or Spellsword or something.
Seraphine_Harmonium 09-27-06, 02:06 AM	Gold Dwarf , LN, druid hands down I loved that Pickle Boldershoulder from the Cleric Quintet books yep him and Ivan rock Green beard and everything. Oo oi!
Salla 09-27-06, 02:07 AM	Got PHB2? Try a Duskblade out. ;) With those two choices, I'd definitely go Wizard. The Druid doesn't interest me very much either (nor do Rangers, Barbarians or other outdoorsy types ...). Though I am tempted, at some point, to play a Warforged Druid just so I can say I did it.
Gogles 09-27-06, 02:06 PM	Say I pick Wizard, and then multi with Fighter. How would a Fighter make me more of a melee char'? I'd still have 1d4 HD, no ability to wear armor (Because armor would give me a chance of spell failure, which is not good to have) or wield a shield, and it's quite dangerous to go to melee with a low AC (and HP...). Oh and I don't want to play a Cleric or a Bard (I don't like the whole 'power from the Gods' idea about the Cleric, and the Bard never seemed like a fun class to play). Anyway, I read about the Druid today, and now it seems like a fun class to play as too. I have absolutely no idea which one to choose. Btw, Thanks for the replies!
pres_man 09-27-06, 02:26 PM	Say I pick Wizard, and then multi with Fighter. Well if you are worried about ability to melee, I would say take the fighter level first. Getting 10 hp + con mod is much better than 4 hp + con mod. How would a Fighter make me more of a melee char'? I'd still have 1d4 HD, You'll have to depend more on your con bonus is all. Though as a dwarf this shouldn't be too hard. I would say, make con your highest stat, with int the second highest. You get an 18 or 20 con, you are looking at 6.5-7.5 hp on average per level, you'd be in pretty good shape to take some damage. no ability to wear armor (Because armor would give me a chance of spell failure, which is not good to have) or wield a shield, and it's quite dangerous to go to melee with a low AC (and HP...). Try to get a mithral buckler and breastplate and you'd only have 15% spell failure which is quite acceptable. Of course you could always take spells like mage armor and shield instead (or in addition to). Not to mention you could follow the monk's example with bracers of armor and other magic gear (even a monk's belt might help). Anyway, I read about the Druid today, and now it seems like a fun class to play as too. They certainly can be fun to play. As a dwarf, I'd go a more "stonespeaker" route, focusing more on spells that deal with stones and earth. Also I would try to learn terran and undercommon.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 09-27-06, 02:30 PM	You could also try a monk/wizard or monk sorcorer combo. Take arcane strike, and then focus your spells on buffs. Such as Fist of stone, flame blade, and shawdo strike. Also with the sorcorer combo you could go into enlightened fist. Although if your a dwarf, maybe Monk/cleric sacred fist might be better. The -2 cha would hurt a sorcorer build. But the +2 con always helps the melee class. PS Druid= ultimate power!
pres_man 09-27-06, 02:37 PM	The problem with multiclassing with non-fighter classes with dwarves is the whole xp penalty issue.
Templetroll 09-27-06, 02:42 PM	I played a dwarf wizard that ended up with a 20 Con and I maxed out Concentration so it was likely for him to get spells off even if injured. Makes Burning Hands worthwhile to get it off consistantly. Also, consider Two-Weapon Fighting and use a Staff. If your dwarf tosses Bull's Strength on himself and then goes in with a sturdy magical staff it could be very entertaining. My GM recommended that I take a level of fighter at one point; then we found a magical Dwarven Axe. eh, I still liked the staff for the flavor of it. Very entertaining to be able to smack two goblins in one round and have a chance to kill them! My wizard also started to focus on Force spells, instead of earth or anything like that. Take a look at those and they add up to a very nice set of abilities with a common theme. A dwarf druid might be fun, I'll have to look that over. Focusing on earth and stone magic could be cool for that.
Judging Eagle 09-27-06, 02:49 PM	Dwarf Cleric: War and (Sun/or other) domains, choose dwarven waraxe; then get... the Extend -> Persistant -> Divine Metamagic (Persistant Spell) chain. A level of Inquisitor (6th lvl; plus you get the Inquistion Domain) and Sacred Exorcist are nice (take two levels (levels 7-8) for Detect Evil at will). Take a level of Divine Desciple for an other Domain at lvl 9 (Now you're totalling 3-4 Domains). Use your 9th lvl feat for Extra Turning and go into Radiant Servant of "XXX" at 10th (3+Cha mod Greater Turnings per day; +1 from the Sun Domain) Taking craft rod at 12 lvl or leadership for a crafting cleric cohort (extra turning, craft wonderous, craft rod, craft arms and armour for a lvl 9 cleric). Now, start cranking out gear and as many night sticks as you can. Game Over.
FeceMan 09-27-06, 05:09 PM	Dwarf fighter 2/wizard 5/runecaster 2/spellsword 1/eldritch knight 10. Yes, it's a tad cheesy, but it will let you cast spells in armor and net +16 BAB (if my memory serves).
Oakspar77777 09-27-06, 08:31 PM	I would suggest pure Cleric with War and Strength or War and Earth. Stack your spells for personal buffs (often refered to as the "selfish Cleric"). Also, you can burn your buffs to heal yourself after combat. If caught by surprise, you won't be as tough as the fighter, but you won't be far behind, and with a round or two to prepare, you will tromp your foes. For feats, take Extend Spell (makes those Buff's move from encounter casting to dungeon crawl spells), and Craft Magic Arms & Armor (which allows you to optimize your equipment). Your party will come to you begging for healing from time to time, but so long as you stay in the front line using your spells aggressively, you can justify not spending your spells on them, but having them pitch in for a Wand of CLW, which you can use to recharge the party. War and ST gives you the most offence (the ST domain ability will eventually be like a free smite you can use on anything), War and Earth gives you a bit more defence (Stone Skin, Iron Skin, etc) as well as letting you hunt down Earth Elementals to enslave and use as tough flankers (since Earth Elementals usually have high HP, AC, and the ability to move below the enemy without AoO). You just have to actively make sure you don't fall into the Cleric stereotypes, and you will find this naturally to be one of the strongest character options out there (just check out the CO board for proof). After all, if you are a Dwarf, you might as well be a Cleric and take advantage of all that heavy armor and shields.
Mandarbgrim 09-27-06, 11:21 PM	A Dwarven melee Warlock with the Eldritch Glaive Invocation from Dragon Magic. Any ToB class if you have it. A Dwarven Dragon Shaman <A bit weak, but has good survivability.> from PHB 2. Duskblade has already been mentioned.
Valthonis 09-28-06, 05:21 AM	Instead of Wizard, go with the Warmage (complete arcane), they can wear light armor and medium at 8th, with no spell failure, plus they can take a feat (can't remember the name right now, also complete arcane) that lets them use armor 1 class higher (thus heavy armor at 8th with no failure). Multiclass with fighter and then go Eldritch Knight. You'll have a smaller spell list (it's all combat), but you know it all and it's spontaneous cast.
Gogles 09-28-06, 07:24 AM	For all those who suggest Cleric, please let me quote...myself: "Oh and I don't want to play a Cleric or a Bard (I don't like the whole 'power from the Gods' idea about the Cleric, and the Bard never seemed like a fun class to play)." I'll ask my DM about the Warmage, but I think we're going to play core-books only. Thanks anyway. I figured that if I'll dice good numbers for my abilities, I'll be able to play a melee Wizard. I just need a 17/18, and two 16...17/18 Int, 16 Con (+2 = 18) and 16 Dex. That way I'll have +4 to my HP, enough Int to be a Wizard and enough Dex to have good AC, without any armors or shields. Too bad my DM forces me to choose before I dice :( Anyway, I still see no use for being a multi-class Wizard/Fighter, so I guess I'll be a Druid. Problem solved! Thanks guys :P
Salla 09-28-06, 01:03 PM	For all those who suggest Cleric, please let me quote...myself: "Oh and I don't want to play a Cleric or a Bard (I don't like the whole 'power from the Gods' idea about the Cleric, and the Bard never seemed like a fun class to play)." It bears noting you don't need a god to be a cleric, just faith. It can be in an ideal or force or philosophy.
Tempest Stormwind 09-28-06, 01:19 PM	It also bears noting that nothing in the game, not even a very prepared wizard, is simultaneously as powerful and as versatile as a druid -- and a wizard of above-average preparation is about as powerful as the druid. Let me ask you all a simple question: What is the druid bad at? There's your answer. You want to fight? Druid does that great, regardless of your rolls*. You want to cast? Full-caster. You're a dwarf? Druids only need Wisdom and Constitution, the latter you have a boost to. You want to fit in well with a party? A druid can fill every one of the five basic roles (tank, healer, caster, scout, and face) if you're careful, and can handle two or more of these at once without trouble. If it doesn't work out, tomorrow you'll be something completely different. (Traps are one thing they can't handle with quite as much ease, but you've got disposable minions to set them off for you.) *Seriously. Below level 5, compare your animal companion (the most optimal is a riding dog trained for war) to the party fighter and laugh at the fighter. Above level 5, you've got Wild Shape, which replaces your Strength and Dexterity scores, along with your Consitution (although your HP doesn't change... but you're a dwarf!). I've played a gnome druid with all of his scores except Wisdom and Constitution below 9, and I was easily the strongest member of the party, combat-wise. This is on top of being a full caster.
Cifer 09-28-06, 01:34 PM	It also bears noting that nothing in the game, not even a very prepared wizard, is simultaneously as powerful and as versatile as a druid -- and a wizard of above-average preparation is about as powerful as the druid. Let me ask you all a simple question: What is the druid bad at? There's your answer. You want to fight? Druid does that great, regardless of your rolls*. You want to cast? Full-caster. You're a dwarf? Druids only need Wisdom and Constitution, the latter you have a boost to. You want to fit in well with a party? A druid can fill every one of the five basic roles (tank, healer, caster, scout, and face) if you're careful, and can handle two or more of these at once without trouble. If it doesn't work out, tomorrow you'll be something completely different. (Traps are one thing they can't handle with quite as much ease, but you've got disposable minions to set them off for you.) "I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"
FeceMan 09-28-06, 02:07 PM	Druids can't be skillmonkeys, though. Yay for daggerspell shaper.
Seldriss 09-28-06, 02:31 PM	You might call me a [insert here adjective], but in my time, dwarves couldn't be wizards, and I am still not used to see one of them casting fireballs... This being said, and trying to be objective, I would say that a dwarven druid is interesting in roleplaying terms, from his link to the earth and stone, like an elementalist. But then again, a dwarf mage (or sorcerer) linked to the same element would be an interesting variant. Or a dwarf mage dedicated into crafting weapons, armors and rings, in the spirit of the dwarves of Asgard. Although then, it's closer to the artificer...
Seldriss 09-28-06, 02:33 PM	"I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!" Very good reference. I like this nasty little druid too, with his wooden companions :D
Tempest Stormwind 09-28-06, 02:57 PM	Druids can't be skillmonkeys, though. Point out the various critical things a skillmonkey does. Every last one of them can be handled by a druid. Stealth? Tiny or mundane wildshaping. Traps? Suspect one and send a disposable minion before you. Or just bypass them with Wild Shape (burrowing forms that leave tunnels and climbing forms work great.) Locked doors? God, if this is a problem, you need to think outside the box a bit more. Just burrow around it or through it, or bash it down, or break the lock or hit it with a spell. Scouting? Many of the stealth forms include excellent sensory measures, including great Spot/Listen checks, tremorsense, blindsense, darkvision, low-light vision, and more. Face-talking? Diplomacy's a class skill, and that's hands down the best of the social skills. (Granted, it's not particularly STRONG on a druid, but the point is, he has it as a class skill on top of all of this.) Special movement (Jump/Climb/Tumble/Balance etc): Again, Wild Shape. The only time a druid has a hard time serving as a skillmonkey is at relatively low levels, or if he's trying to serve another role at the time the skills are necessary.
mentaner 09-28-06, 03:26 PM	Well, to my mind it seems to be a case of a warrior possessing spell-casting abilities. A Dwarf is a good choice for the warrior aspect, but a druid or a wizard is a poor one, since your capabilities as a warrior are thus severely limited, unless you intend to spend large sums of treasure and a number of feats just to make up to a certain extend for the trouble the armor and weapons limitations of these classes incur. If I were you, I'd go for the obvious choice of a cleric (War - Protection Domains), but in that case your turn ability would be gravely hampered, due to the racial -2 to Cha. To make for that, try the Divine Energy Focus feat (+2 to Clr level, +2 to turn damage, +2 to turn check mod) and the Nymph's Kiss feat (Exalted)(+2 to all Cha-related checks). Also remember that 5 ranks to Knowledge (Religion) give you an extra +2 to turn check mod, which combined with the foregoing feats will, I suppose, give you a minimum 6 turn mod (if Cha mod 0).
Cifer 09-28-06, 03:58 PM	If I were you, I'd go for the obvious choice of a cleric (War - Protection Domains), but in that case your turn ability would be gravely hampered, due to the racial -2 to Cha. To make for that, try the Divine Energy Focus feat (+2 to Clr level, +2 to turn damage, +2 to turn check mod) and the Nymph's Kiss feat (Exalted)(+2 to all Cha-related checks). Also remember that 5 ranks to Knowledge (Religion) give you an extra +2 to turn check mod, which combined with the foregoing feats will, I suppose, give you a minimum 6 turn mod (if Cha mod 0). Or you might simply forego true turning altogether and use turn attempts only for powering divine feats. From around midlevels onwards, undead will have many more hitdice than you anyway, so you would need to sink a lot of ressources into turning if you want it to have any effect. On the other hand side, the discussion is academic anyway since OP doesn't want to play a cleric.
Tempest Stormwind 09-28-06, 04:17 PM	Well, to my mind it seems to be a case of a warrior possessing spell-casting abilities. A Dwarf is a good choice for the warrior aspect, but a druid or a wizard is a poor one, since your capabilities as a warrior are thus severely limited, unless you intend to spend large sums of treasure and a number of feats just to make up to a certain extend for the trouble the armor and weapons limitations of these classes incur.You've never made a gish before, have you? Or played a druid? If I were you, I'd go for the obvious choice of a cleric (War - Protection Domains), but in that case your turn ability would be gravely hampered, due to the racial -2 to Cha. To make for that, try the Divine Energy Focus feat (+2 to Clr level, +2 to turn damage, +2 to turn check mod) and the Nymph's Kiss feat (Exalted)(+2 to all Cha-related checks). Also remember that 5 ranks to Knowledge (Religion) give you an extra +2 to turn check mod, which combined with the foregoing feats will, I suppose, give you a minimum 6 turn mod (if Cha mod 0).Turning's weak and byzantine, especially since HD scales faster than CR for undead, and the only real reason to actually use it outside of the odd swarm of lower-HD monsters is to power divine feats, the far-and-away best of which is Divine Metamagic. Gogles has said he wanted a druid or a wizard, that could fight. Congrats -- the druid meets both requirements right out of the box, in any limited environment, and can likely do it better than the other, more dedicated members of the party. The wizard needs a bit of tweaking, but isn't a bad choice overall.
RobbyPants 09-28-06, 06:01 PM	I'd consider going for the Spell Sword and Eldritch Knight with the following Build: Fighter 2/Wizard 4/ SpellSword 3/ Eldritch Knight 10 I'd go for the SpellSword 1st (plus, you won't quite have the Eldritch Knight prereqs at that point), and drop out at 3rd level. That gives you 15% arcane spell failure ignoring. With that, you could wear mithril full plate of twilight (a +8 AC bonus, + whatever magic enchanment bonus you have). This works because full plate has an ASF of 35% - 10% for mitrhil -10% for twilight - 15% for ASF ignore of the spell sword.
FeceMan 09-28-06, 08:33 PM	I'd consider going for the Spell Sword and Eldritch Knight with the following Build: Fighter 2/Wizard 4/ SpellSword 3/ Eldritch Knight 10 I'd go for the SpellSword 1st (plus, you won't quite have the Eldritch Knight prereqs at that point), and drop out at 3rd level. That gives you 15% arcane spell failure ignoring. With that, you could wear mithril full plate of twilight (a +8 AC bonus, + whatever magic enchanment bonus you have). This works because full plate has an ASF of 35% - 10% for mitrhil -10% for twilight - 15% for ASF ignore of the spell sword. Nay. Runecaster > spellsword (total ASF elimination).
Gogles 09-29-06, 02:03 PM	Tempest Stormwind and Cifer, I'd like to thank you both, for pointing out that I DON'T WANT to play a Cleric! Anyhow, I've finally decided. I shall play a Druid. Thanks guys! Now where did I put that green cape? P.S- Which is better? 2 Small Viper Snakes, or 1 Medium? Or maybe I should take a Wolf?
FeceMan 09-29-06, 02:09 PM	Well, tell us about your character. Personally, I'd take a mole.
pres_man 09-29-06, 02:27 PM	P.S- Which is better? 2 Small Viper Snakes, or 1 Medium? Or maybe I should take a Wolf? If you are playing 3.5, then you can only have one animal companion. As for a choice, I'd go with mule.
Tempest Stormwind 09-29-06, 03:42 PM	You're limited to one animal companion in 3.5. If you are playing 3.0, look into birds. In 3.5, the strongest animal companion is a riding dog trained for war (which gives it the wolf's trip, amongst other things, on top of its superior stats to the wolf).
Godzilla 09-30-06, 12:14 AM	You stole my idea :(... I have a Dwarf Rogue in my current campaign, and in Neverwinter Nights, I plan on having a Dwarf Bard or Cleric after I've cleared the game with my Elf Rogue. And, if you prefer Wizard of Druid, use Wizard.