Dwarven Druid Needs PrC/Class/Alignment Adjustment? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dwarven Druid Needs PrC/Class/Alignment Adjustment? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Callista
08-09-05, 08:56 AM [Edit: I looked at this post and realized it was rather lengthy, so I summarized and spoilered a couple of sections. Sorry about that--I tend to be long-winded.]

I have a 7th level dwarven Druid. You may have met her back when she was 5th level, and I asked about changing her alignment to NE, when she used psychological torture on a captured guard (i.e., killing his unconscious friend in front of him, and threatening the same to him if he didn't talk).

The upshot was that I decided that if she wasn't evil yet, she would be if she didn't change the way she thought about things. Since there's a CG Psion in the party who, out of character, told me he might have to kill my character if she did turn evil, I decided that my character, being a bit scared by her own ruthlessness, would be thinking about things a little more in the future. (This would make sense; she'd just had her animal companion killed at the time, so acts normally out of character to her would easily have resulted from anger and grief.)

Currently, she's True Neutral, and I had originally intended on a plain-vanilla Druid up to level 20--no prestige classes.

Character backstory; the only thing you really need to know is that the druid needs money to hire a wizard to find out what happened to her village, whose inhabitants mysteriuosly disappeared, and is hiring out as a mercenary.

She starts out happy enough with her village and family, but she really feels much more at home in the caves and deep woods around her home; and there she would've remained if it weren't for the mysterious disappearance of every single member of her village, except for some that were off trading with a nearby city, and her. No signs of a struggle, nothing out of the ordinary--just gone. (I don't have a reason for this; it's a plot hook for the DM, if he wants one.)

Anyways, this is when she becomes a mercenary. (Beginning of game, at level 5.) She'd never needed or wanted money before; but she doesn't want to sell off anything left by the dwarves who disappeared, and now she needs to hire a wizard to find out what happened to her village. Since no one will pay her to talk to the animals for them, and turning into a bear is pretty intimidating, she's hired herself out to whoever will pay her. Turns out the other members of the party are either Good or (in the case of a Doppelganger rogue) CN; so she's working for good-aligned causes.

So: the incident I mentioned (death of the companion and the use of psychological torture) happened; and to avoid having my character turning towards Evil, I had to find some goal for her, other than getting the money, at any cost, to hire a (high-level) wizard to find out what could teleport (or instantly kill, with no trace) an entire village. In this campaign world, high level characters are scarce; so this will take quite some doing.

My character, out of an unwillingness to see dwarves as slaves, has been freeing dwarven slaves. These have formed a community, making my character somewhat of a leader, and tied her down, giving her responsibility. I'm wondering whether that doesn't give her quite a bit of a Lawful bent. The full story:
I decided to latch on to something else in this campaign world, to avoid my character becoming ruthless in her pursuit of money: Slavery is accepted and commonplace; any race can be sold into slavery for debts, born into it, or made a slave for committing a crime.

My character has decided that no dwarf should ever be a slave. She has some "racial superiority" issues, since she believes dwarves are tougher, smarter, and generally all-around better than any other race. She doesn't believe, however, that they should rule the other races, or kill them, or anything else; she's just a bit too proud of being a dwarf. So I've had her decide that no dwarf should ever have to be a slave.

Currently, I've had her using some of that hard-earned money to buy dwarven slaves and free them. They're fairly cheap (I got a 1st-level commoner for 25 gold). Currently, she has a small (50-odd individuals) community of dwarven ex-slaves living near where her village used to be (but not in it). They're now a thriving business--metalworking, mostly--and most of them have paid back what she paid to buy them in the first place. I don't get any more money than that out of it, though; my character doesn't believe that they ought to be giving any of their money to her and has refused anything beyond their original purchase price (it's not much, anyway; like I said, most are low-level laborers).

Strangely enough, the DM has allowed this to take place without the Leadership feat. True, I don't get any cohorts out of it (they're all low-level; the highest is a 3rd-level sorcerer who escaped on her own), or any money; but I have an entire (small) community who are friendly to me and look up to me. My character believes that, once this village gets big enough, it may offer some good competition to the people who own slaves, maybe even driving them out of business. Especially since (of course) dwarves are naturally better at working hard and well than anybody else. (The fact that they're more productive because they're free to keep their own profits seems to escape my character.)

Thus comes the change in what I've planned for my character. I had originally planned staying True Neutral, if I could; the slight racism balanced out by the benevolent (well, kind of) freeing of slaves. And I had thought that, since my character didn't really want to be tied down to a village, that she would keep advancing in Druid levels.

Both of those things, I think, might have to change. The community of freed slaves is giving the character a reason to stay in one place; a community of which she is currently (but doesn't plan to remain) de facto leader and arbitrator. She's thinking more and more about her community and dwarves in general; and loyalty to her companions (none of whom are dwarves--this could be a future conflict of interest) and to her race. That gives me the idea that she's getting a real Lawful streak going here.

Should I change the character's alignment to LN?

How can I make sure this character doesn't turn into a dwarven version of Hitler? If she does, she'll be LE, and that's a bad thing for a Druid... so I don't want that to happen.

Should I multiclass out of Druid, or choose a Prestige Class that is more "social" than most druids tend to be?

I need something that makes sense mechanically, though; and I didn't plan for it--my feats (Wild Spell, Speaking Wild Shape, and Extra Wild Shape) are all geared towards the Druid class.

So... what do you do when the mechanics of the game don't agree with where your character is taking you?
Vacerious
08-09-05, 10:53 AM first off, it's rather interesting that you chose to be a dwarven druid, because one doesn't associate dwarves with nature a whole lot. but that's beyond the point.

to answer your question on alignment, go ahead and change it to LN. as it says in the PHB:
Druids may live in small towns, but they always spend a good portion of their time in wild areas. Even large cities surrounded by cultivated land as far as the eye can see often have druid groves nearby-small, wild refuges where drids live and which they protect fiercely.
your druid becoming the de facto leader of a community shouldn't affect your ability to continue being a druid.

Here's an interesting thought: perhaps by freeing these dwarven slaves, you have them start a community that is purely nature-based (as in, everyone lives in a treehouse) and co-exists with nature's beings. this, in turn, leads to a new subspecies of dwarf that refuses to live in mountainous regions and has the preferred class of druid.

as for feats, you should definitely consider taking up Leadership. obviously, you're going to get a lot of respect for freeing your fellow dwarves, and hence, some of them revere you as a leader. besides, having a cohort is always a nice perk.

as for your character becoming a dwarven Hitler, keep one thing in mind: LE is all about control. you do anything to get people to listen to you, even if it means killing their families. to keep from straying from the LN alignment, just enforce your laws by the letter, letting no grudge or personal interest get in the way of justice. as long as you don't ok a law allowing slavery in your community, you should be fine.
Kittencaboodle
08-09-05, 05:40 PM I feel your pain. I started off as an elven druid -- CN

Currently, thanks to the DM being nice enough to warn us, I am actually heading towards a dual alignment change... NG

Luckily, still neutral, but quite a shift.

I took levels of Dragon disciple and asked the emperor for a lair when we helped defeat his usurping bastard brother. He gave me a city. :P

The simple tasks involved with running the city have made my character act much more lawful, since she has to institute laws and ensure they are followed.
Thievingrouge
08-09-05, 05:52 PM Some posts I have seen here advocate your character should be killed by the other PCs. Not that I believe that, but you really shouldn't let roleplaying quirks influence your roleplaying... :rolleyes:
Callista
08-10-05, 08:58 AM It depends on the other PCs, doesn't it? If the other PCs have the sort of personality to kill an evil party member, then they should... most of the characters I've seen played wouldn't--at most, the evil party member would get kicked out of the party--but this one, the psion, I'm not quite sure of. He seems to be quite callous about killing evil things in general, which makes sense since we started out as mercenaries at level 5 and had presumably done quite a lot of killing in the past.

And he's CG... so he doesn't even have any ideas about honor. If I'd let her go Evil, the druid would probably have done a lot of things just because they were quicker or easier than more merciful methods--you see some pretty cruel things in nature--and wouldn't have thought to hide them because she wouldn't have realized they were really evil at all, just expedient. So the psion might just, when he decided he couldn't convert my character back to good (he probably can't; he's got an average charisma, is way too proud of his psionics, and my character is stubborn), that it makes more sense to kill her in her sleep. And I haven't got an animal companion to watch over me... so, yeah. Better to go for harmony and decide she's Neutral, just a bit too proud of being a dwarf. That seems to be acceptable enough, even if it's a bit distasteful, and no reason for any CG character to kill party members.

All this is from out of character conversations--my character really hasn't got an inkling of how close the psion came to offing her after that torture incident.

So this is why I readjusted the character's focus (it really wasn't much of an adjustment, or I wouldn't have done it and just let the combat begin--depending on who won initiative, it would've been over very quickly either way!). I don't mind playing LN, though I haven't done it before (just LG), and I don't want to get a tradition of PC-versus-PC killing started. That sort of thing can just get into one-upsmanship, and then it gets ugly.

Heh... I didn't realize being a druid would put so many restrictions on alignment... "keeping some measure of neutrality" does have some troubles to it, I guess.
Morka
08-10-05, 11:21 AM To lead a city, you don't need to be Lawful; you only need to be a wise leader. A CG character can be a good leader if he's fair and respected; a CE character can be a good leader if he's able to intimidate everyone else.

About the Psion threatening to kill you if you turn evil, just watch Return of the Jedi: "Let wrath and fear grow in you, and embrace the Dark Side!"

Currently, thanks to the DM being nice enough to warn us, I am actually heading towards a dual alignment change... NG

Thanks to the God of Chaos!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Callista 08-09-05, 08:56 AM	[Edit: I looked at this post and realized it was rather lengthy, so I summarized and spoilered a couple of sections. Sorry about that--I tend to be long-winded.] I have a 7th level dwarven Druid. You may have met her back when she was 5th level, and I asked about changing her alignment to NE, when she used psychological torture on a captured guard (i.e., killing his unconscious friend in front of him, and threatening the same to him if he didn't talk). The upshot was that I decided that if she wasn't evil yet, she would be if she didn't change the way she thought about things. Since there's a CG Psion in the party who, out of character, told me he might have to kill my character if she did turn evil, I decided that my character, being a bit scared by her own ruthlessness, would be thinking about things a little more in the future. (This would make sense; she'd just had her animal companion killed at the time, so acts normally out of character to her would easily have resulted from anger and grief.) Currently, she's True Neutral, and I had originally intended on a plain-vanilla Druid up to level 20--no prestige classes. Character backstory; the only thing you really need to know is that the druid needs money to hire a wizard to find out what happened to her village, whose inhabitants mysteriuosly disappeared, and is hiring out as a mercenary. She starts out happy enough with her village and family, but she really feels much more at home in the caves and deep woods around her home; and there she would've remained if it weren't for the mysterious disappearance of every single member of her village, except for some that were off trading with a nearby city, and her. No signs of a struggle, nothing out of the ordinary--just gone. (I don't have a reason for this; it's a plot hook for the DM, if he wants one.) Anyways, this is when she becomes a mercenary. (Beginning of game, at level 5.) She'd never needed or wanted money before; but she doesn't want to sell off anything left by the dwarves who disappeared, and now she needs to hire a wizard to find out what happened to her village. Since no one will pay her to talk to the animals for them, and turning into a bear is pretty intimidating, she's hired herself out to whoever will pay her. Turns out the other members of the party are either Good or (in the case of a Doppelganger rogue) CN; so she's working for good-aligned causes. So: the incident I mentioned (death of the companion and the use of psychological torture) happened; and to avoid having my character turning towards Evil, I had to find some goal for her, other than getting the money, at any cost, to hire a (high-level) wizard to find out what could teleport (or instantly kill, with no trace) an entire village. In this campaign world, high level characters are scarce; so this will take quite some doing. My character, out of an unwillingness to see dwarves as slaves, has been freeing dwarven slaves. These have formed a community, making my character somewhat of a leader, and tied her down, giving her responsibility. I'm wondering whether that doesn't give her quite a bit of a Lawful bent. The full story: I decided to latch on to something else in this campaign world, to avoid my character becoming ruthless in her pursuit of money: Slavery is accepted and commonplace; any race can be sold into slavery for debts, born into it, or made a slave for committing a crime. My character has decided that no dwarf should ever be a slave. She has some "racial superiority" issues, since she believes dwarves are tougher, smarter, and generally all-around better than any other race. She doesn't believe, however, that they should rule the other races, or kill them, or anything else; she's just a bit too proud of being a dwarf. So I've had her decide that no dwarf should ever have to be a slave. Currently, I've had her using some of that hard-earned money to buy dwarven slaves and free them. They're fairly cheap (I got a 1st-level commoner for 25 gold). Currently, she has a small (50-odd individuals) community of dwarven ex-slaves living near where her village used to be (but not in it). They're now a thriving business--metalworking, mostly--and most of them have paid back what she paid to buy them in the first place. I don't get any more money than that out of it, though; my character doesn't believe that they ought to be giving any of their money to her and has refused anything beyond their original purchase price (it's not much, anyway; like I said, most are low-level laborers). Strangely enough, the DM has allowed this to take place without the Leadership feat. True, I don't get any cohorts out of it (they're all low-level; the highest is a 3rd-level sorcerer who escaped on her own), or any money; but I have an entire (small) community who are friendly to me and look up to me. My character believes that, once this village gets big enough, it may offer some good competition to the people who own slaves, maybe even driving them out of business. Especially since (of course) dwarves are naturally better at working hard and well than anybody else. (The fact that they're more productive because they're free to keep their own profits seems to escape my character.) Thus comes the change in what I've planned for my character. I had originally planned staying True Neutral, if I could; the slight racism balanced out by the benevolent (well, kind of) freeing of slaves. And I had thought that, since my character didn't really want to be tied down to a village, that she would keep advancing in Druid levels. Both of those things, I think, might have to change. The community of freed slaves is giving the character a reason to stay in one place; a community of which she is currently (but doesn't plan to remain) de facto leader and arbitrator. She's thinking more and more about her community and dwarves in general; and loyalty to her companions (none of whom are dwarves--this could be a future conflict of interest) and to her race. That gives me the idea that she's getting a real Lawful streak going here. Should I change the character's alignment to LN? How can I make sure this character doesn't turn into a dwarven version of Hitler? If she does, she'll be LE, and that's a bad thing for a Druid... so I don't want that to happen. Should I multiclass out of Druid, or choose a Prestige Class that is more "social" than most druids tend to be? I need something that makes sense mechanically, though; and I didn't plan for it--my feats (Wild Spell, Speaking Wild Shape, and Extra Wild Shape) are all geared towards the Druid class. So... what do you do when the mechanics of the game don't agree with where your character is taking you?
Vacerious 08-09-05, 10:53 AM	first off, it's rather interesting that you chose to be a dwarven druid, because one doesn't associate dwarves with nature a whole lot. but that's beyond the point. to answer your question on alignment, go ahead and change it to LN. as it says in the PHB: Druids may live in small towns, but they always spend a good portion of their time in wild areas. Even large cities surrounded by cultivated land as far as the eye can see often have druid groves nearby-small, wild refuges where drids live and which they protect fiercely. your druid becoming the de facto leader of a community shouldn't affect your ability to continue being a druid. Here's an interesting thought: perhaps by freeing these dwarven slaves, you have them start a community that is purely nature-based (as in, everyone lives in a treehouse) and co-exists with nature's beings. this, in turn, leads to a new subspecies of dwarf that refuses to live in mountainous regions and has the preferred class of druid. as for feats, you should definitely consider taking up Leadership. obviously, you're going to get a lot of respect for freeing your fellow dwarves, and hence, some of them revere you as a leader. besides, having a cohort is always a nice perk. as for your character becoming a dwarven Hitler, keep one thing in mind: LE is all about control. you do anything to get people to listen to you, even if it means killing their families. to keep from straying from the LN alignment, just enforce your laws by the letter, letting no grudge or personal interest get in the way of justice. as long as you don't ok a law allowing slavery in your community, you should be fine.
Kittencaboodle 08-09-05, 05:40 PM	I feel your pain. I started off as an elven druid -- CN Currently, thanks to the DM being nice enough to warn us, I am actually heading towards a dual alignment change... NG Luckily, still neutral, but quite a shift. I took levels of Dragon disciple and asked the emperor for a lair when we helped defeat his usurping bastard brother. He gave me a city. :P The simple tasks involved with running the city have made my character act much more lawful, since she has to institute laws and ensure they are followed.
Thievingrouge 08-09-05, 05:52 PM	Some posts I have seen here advocate your character should be killed by the other PCs. Not that I believe that, but you really shouldn't let roleplaying quirks influence your roleplaying... :rolleyes:
Callista 08-10-05, 08:58 AM	It depends on the other PCs, doesn't it? If the other PCs have the sort of personality to kill an evil party member, then they should... most of the characters I've seen played wouldn't--at most, the evil party member would get kicked out of the party--but this one, the psion, I'm not quite sure of. He seems to be quite callous about killing evil things in general, which makes sense since we started out as mercenaries at level 5 and had presumably done quite a lot of killing in the past. And he's CG... so he doesn't even have any ideas about honor. If I'd let her go Evil, the druid would probably have done a lot of things just because they were quicker or easier than more merciful methods--you see some pretty cruel things in nature--and wouldn't have thought to hide them because she wouldn't have realized they were really evil at all, just expedient. So the psion might just, when he decided he couldn't convert my character back to good (he probably can't; he's got an average charisma, is way too proud of his psionics, and my character is stubborn), that it makes more sense to kill her in her sleep. And I haven't got an animal companion to watch over me... so, yeah. Better to go for harmony and decide she's Neutral, just a bit too proud of being a dwarf. That seems to be acceptable enough, even if it's a bit distasteful, and no reason for any CG character to kill party members. All this is from out of character conversations--my character really hasn't got an inkling of how close the psion came to offing her after that torture incident. So this is why I readjusted the character's focus (it really wasn't much of an adjustment, or I wouldn't have done it and just let the combat begin--depending on who won initiative, it would've been over very quickly either way!). I don't mind playing LN, though I haven't done it before (just LG), and I don't want to get a tradition of PC-versus-PC killing started. That sort of thing can just get into one-upsmanship, and then it gets ugly. Heh... I didn't realize being a druid would put so many restrictions on alignment... "keeping some measure of neutrality" does have some troubles to it, I guess.
Morka 08-10-05, 11:21 AM	To lead a city, you don't need to be Lawful; you only need to be a wise leader. A CG character can be a good leader if he's fair and respected; a CE character can be a good leader if he's able to intimidate everyone else. About the Psion threatening to kill you if you turn evil, just watch Return of the Jedi: "Let wrath and fear grow in you, and embrace the Dark Side!" Currently, thanks to the DM being nice enough to warn us, I am actually heading towards a dual alignment change... NG Thanks to the God of Chaos!