Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Siegfreid_the_Cleric 02-12-08, 12:04 PM	Alright well here is the situation, my friends and i are starting a new campagain and he ruled out my original cleric siegfried so i made a dwarf/werebear cleric for the party. But i am having trouble with two questions: When do i add the werebears bonus stats to my base creature dwarf and could i use spells mentally since i can only talk bear and dire bear?
Siegfreid_the_Cleric 02-12-08, 12:24 PM	P.S. Yes he is a natural born werebear.
Sinfire Titan 02-12-08, 01:29 PM	I give you one tip: DON'T! The CL loss isn't worth it. The Level Adjustment of a Werebear is massive, and you will be horrible when combat rolls around in terms of Attacks or spellcasting. You are better off just using a standard Cleric and getting Shapechange as a spell and becoming a Dire Bear with it. You wouldn't be able to cast spells in Hybrid form or animal Form (even with Natural Spell), and your BAB would be really low.
Siegfreid_the_Cleric 02-12-08, 04:55 PM	well i noticed a cleric is naturally weak from time to time ((aka fighting a minotaur barbarian when the dm thinks it funny to have him target the cleric)) so with the use of martial weapon profieciency and alot of reading i believe that he would be a good fighter in hybrid form, but yes i see you problem, upon full moon i would just become a straight dire bear and i would be totally useless upon that transformation i believe right?
Siegfreid_the_Cleric 02-12-08, 05:18 PM	correct me if i am wrong of course but wouldn't a better hit die benefit a weak cleric? and the werebear gets something by weilding a greataxe i believe.
wonlee76 02-12-08, 05:30 PM	You do realize you're investing 9 levels to get the benefits of a natural werebear right? 6 HD from bear, +3 LA for natural lycanthrope. Basically, you need to be level 10 before you can even cast a 1st level cleric spell. That's a huge hit to caster levels that's not worth it. But to answer your questions: You get the stat boosts only when in hybrid form or animal form only (with the exception of a +2 wisdom modifier which kicks in any form you're in). You cannot cast spells with a vocal or somatic component when in Bear form. YOu can cast spells with somatic components in hybrid form. I'm not so certain about spells with vocal components on them. Since you're a medium sized creature that turns into a large sized creature when you shift into bear form, your armor will drop to the ground at the very minimum (since it won't fit you in your new form). Your gear will re-size for you if your DM considers the hybrid form to be "humanoid" enough to wear/wield whatever gear you have.
Siegfreid_the_Cleric 02-13-08, 08:41 AM	okay i see what your saying, so basically just scrap the idea of werebear, but i could do something interesing by scrapping him i could scrap werebear and reap benefits from making a half celestial dwarf couldn't i?
BugHunter 02-13-08, 09:11 AM	Even a half-celestial is a big hit on casting since it has a +4 level adjustment.
Siegfreid_the_Cleric 02-13-08, 09:26 AM	okay then what do you people suggest considering the dm is going to be a major ******* and put a corpse tearer in the first part of the campaign as a boss.....and i need something that will give the dwarf cleric power to back him up...
Magrus 02-13-08, 09:33 AM	Use the search function in the Character Optimization boards to learn how to make a decent cleric? Clerics are one of the most powerful classes in the game. Built properly, they'll tear nearly anything apart. Dwarf clerics are quite possibly the best tanks in the game. If you can't defend yourself with a dwarf cleric, the DM is cheating, or you need help building a character. Anyhow, the rule with casting classes is don't lose caster levels without exceptionally good reasons, if ever. You can simulate being a fighter with your spells, but if you give up your caster levels, you just gave up your most powerful weapon.
aikimiller 02-13-08, 11:12 AM	You've been playing them wrong. Playing a cleric in 4 easy steps Step 1: Get Full Plate and, a Morning Star, and Buckler Step 2: Buff the hell out of yourself with cleric spells- Bulls Strength and such starting out later into Divine Power and Righteous Might (or was it diving might and righteous power...?) Step 3: Smash Face Step 4: Repeat as desired.
Zombie_Babies 02-13-08, 02:49 PM	You've been playing them wrong. Playing a cleric in 4 easy steps Step 1: Get Full Plate and, a Morning Star, and Buckler Step 2: Buff the hell out of yourself with cleric spells- Bulls Strength and such starting out later into Divine Power and Righteous Might (or was it diving might and righteous power...?) Step 3: Smash Face Step 4: Repeat as desired. Toss in a Divine Favor for good measure, too. Seriously, Clerics are tough enough to be A-OK without augmenting. CoDZilla sound familiar? (the "C" stands for Cleric :eek: ) All a level adjust does is make you look cool. You cripple yourself for the sake of being a half-celestial half-fiend half-dragon half-whisper gnome were rattigerbearwolf. I have seen several try to play level adjust races in games where no one else was. It inevitably led to them griping about not being effective. If everyone is playing a level adjust, however, then it works out fine.
BugHunter 02-13-08, 08:01 PM	The Radiant Servant of Pelor is one of the best PrC for a cleric.
M-bark 02-14-08, 09:24 AM	You should ask your DM if you may work with LA buyoff. You can find rules for LA buyoff in Unearthed Arcana or in the SRD. I allowed a Human Paladin Were-Polar Bear once. The Polar Bear that had bitten him had been killed and raised several times, so it only had 1 HD, so he only gained 1 HD from that. He still gained +2 LA, but he could buy that off in the end. You could ask if it could go that way, perhaps, if you'd still like a Werebear.
Siegfreid_the_Cleric 02-14-08, 06:15 PM	well the way he is working out so far his hp has doubled, and i can always cast the spells by shifting out of hybird, but he is looking decent so far...
gixanthrax 02-19-08, 08:09 AM	I'm currently building a feral dwarven cleric, because I think that the LA+1 is bearable for the combat bonuses this gives. aplus 2 to wis is nice too. Let's see how my DM is going to like that....
NordicBirch 02-19-08, 10:21 AM	well the way he is working out so far his hp has doubled, and i can always cast the spells by shifting out of hybird, but he is looking decent so far... Would you mind posting the build? Stats, levels, BAB etc. Would be helpful to know a bit more about the subject under discussion :)
narack 02-19-08, 12:22 PM	your BAB would be really low. ya right, since when +16 str lower your Bab.
M-bark 02-19-08, 12:28 PM	ya right, since when +16 str lower your Bab. Remember that Str is not included in BAB, BAB fully depends on your racial HD and class levels. ;) Of course, increases in Str can make up for lost BAB.
narack 02-19-08, 12:28 PM	Were Bear stat HD : Extra 6D8 +30 AC : + 7 Nat armor AND -1 size(animal or hybrid form) DR : 15/silver (animal or hybrid form) Speed : 40' (animal or hybrid form) Reach : 10' (Hybrid form) Space : 10'X10' (animal or hybrid form) Feats : Iron will + 3 feat of your choice +16 STR (animal or hybrid form) +2 DEX (animal or hybrid form) +8 CON (animal or hybrid form) +2 WIS (All form) +4 swim checks (animal or hybrid form) Control Shape(WIS) become innate skill. Curse of Lycanthropy (Su) Any humanoid or giant hit by a werebear’s bite attack in animal or hybrid form must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or contract lycanthropy. Bear Empathy (Ex) Communicate with bears and dire bears, and +4 racial bonus on Charisma-based checks against bears and dire bears. Alternate Form (Su) A werebear can assume the form of a brown bear or a bear-humanoid hybrid. Improved Grab (Ex) To use this ability, a werebear must be in bear form and must hit with a claw attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. +3 LA
NordicBirch 02-19-08, 03:08 PM	How about the cleric side? What's your cleric level?
Exposed_Wires 02-19-08, 07:23 PM	If you're going to be a werebear, you might as well not be a cleric. Be a fighter or barbarian. Then you get feats or rage, respectively. Cleric only benefits from more levels in cleric so you get spells and better turning. Making a lycanthrope cleric is just a waste.
Drackthor 02-20-08, 04:31 AM	You've been playing them wrong. Playing a cleric in 5 easy steps Step 1: Get Full Plate and, a Mace, and Buckler Step 2: Buff the hell out of yourself with cleric spells- Bulls Strength and such starting out later into Divine Power and Righteous Might (or was it diving might and righteous power...?) Step 3: Smash Face Step 4: Repeat as desired. Step 5: Make your Character's name Jozan. Fixed for what we all do when we play Clerics.
Siegfreid_the_Cleric 02-20-08, 01:34 PM	well then let me warm my scanner up and i'll get his page up
M-bark 02-20-08, 03:23 PM	Cleric only benefits from more levels in cleric so you get spells and better turning. Making a lycanthrope cleric is just a waste. Only if not handled correctly. Clerics with fewer spells can still make great characters. Also, great roleplaying oppurtunities!
Exposed_Wires 02-21-08, 03:59 PM	Only if not handled correctly. Clerics with fewer spells can still make great characters. Also, great roleplaying oppurtunities! I don't know if playing a manbear has any more roleplaying capacity than a grizzled human. There are a few more hardships to overcome such as being a diseased monster, but that doesn't come up much in a dungeon. Less angry villagers. Still, I think a character like this would be better suited as a paladin or monk, maybe.
Legdiwena 02-21-08, 06:11 PM	You don't need control shape skill if you're a natural lycan. Naturals have full control, afflicted ones need the skill.