Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Adamaro23 08-28-07, 06:57 AM	Somehow this happened, 2 of the other players convinced me to play a Dwarf (like them), and it's became my favorite character. We all have Phalanx Fighting, Shield Wall, and Formation Expert. In addition we are Mountain Dwarves (Scarred Lands), Mountain Dwarves get +2 on all attack rolls when within 5ft. of another Mountain Dwarf...:D We have: Fighter 5 (me, going for Dwarven Defender) AC 28 (32 if next to them) Cleric 5 -AC 27 (31 if next to us) Paladin 5 -AC 28 (30 if next to us Also we are all taking Leadership at 6th for more Mountain Dwarves with Phalanx Fighting and Shield Wall, plus the prestige class the paladin is going for gives him a cohort (our flag bearer). In addition i'm working my way up to get Commander Auras :) . I was wondering if anyone has ever been able to do this before, if so are there any good tips you could give me for playing this? (also any reccomendations on a weapon? we're using heavy steel shields)
Solian 08-28-07, 07:05 AM	fighting in tight quarters is a fantastic way to deal with this, and is a great tactic, though if you find yourselves out in the open too much, try and lead your opponents into a tight space (e.g. an alleyway if in a If your found out in the open though, against rogues, then your more than likely going to be ambushed and killed swiftly as they split you up from each other, which is easily done with an inventive DM. fortification Armour helps against those pesky things because they can't get their sneak attacks against you and are so dealing minimal damage each round, especially with your AC. Spell casters will do the same (fireball is a great weakness because your all so close, as is things that move you away from your allies, e.g. sctatter trap from phb 2) so be sure to carry round a few dispel magic stuff or gain SR through magical items or PrC's. Hope that helps with your Dwarves. -Solian
Shadowhowler 08-28-07, 10:38 AM	Yeah... you guys are a enemy spellcasters dream. Slow, ponderous, and all clumped together. Boom.
darkneolink 08-28-07, 11:12 AM	you guys need to get someone to cast antimagic field or get an item that can mimic the effect of one so you'll be safe from the spellcasters
DrMorganes 08-28-07, 11:52 AM	At the cost of hamstringing any magical enhancements they may have (like the aforementioned Fortification on their armor), neutralizing any casting ability possessed by their little phalanx, and still keeping them entirely vulnerable to non-magical traps (c.f., Combat Trapsmith PrC in Complete Scoundrel)? I'll pass. Antimagic fields are a two-edged sword, and can do as much harm as good. Besides, there are enough spells (Orb of Insert Energy Type, ferinstance) that are unaffected by AMF to make this a VERY sketchy tactic at best.
Ack 08-28-07, 12:27 PM	And all a mage has to do is perform the age-old trick of magically shrinking a boulder and using a sling to send it into the anti-magic field...
Prince_of_Parkness 08-28-07, 01:14 PM	There was this feat I read in some random splat book, "Close order fighting". It gave you the benefits of cover when within 5ft of an ally
Meep326 08-28-07, 01:32 PM	One of the cohorts is a rogue... and they train for Teamwork Evasian (Heroes of Battle) and all of them gain evasian. And the only real way the rogues are going to gain sneak attack (if they fight in a square formation) is by feinting.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 08-28-07, 02:51 PM	are there any good tips you could give me for playing this? Yes, try to look surprised when NPC enemies decimate your ranks by hammering nine kinds of **** out of you with AoE damage spells.
Meep326 08-28-07, 03:17 PM	Yes, try to look surprised when NPC enemies decimate your ranks by hammering nine kinds of **** out of you with AoE damage spells. Read my above post as to how to avoid that?
DrMorganes 08-28-07, 03:25 PM	Evasion still allows for full damage on a failed save. Dwarves - and dwarven fighters at that - are not known for their high DEX scores and mad Reflex Save bonuses. Sure it will help, but you're all making you saving throws individually. Honestly, you'll just die tired from all the dodging. Any rogue worth his salt also knows better than to engage a phalanx of heavily-armored dwarves head-on. They have far more (and far better) ways of dealing with your little turtle than melee. We save that for the coup de graces at the end...
otakutaylor 08-28-07, 03:45 PM	wow.... I just made a character out of bordom 2 days ago and I think she'd have been a great addition to your team (if she could stay alive, low AC naturally) Read over your Heroes of Battle and Check out War Weaver. Even if your weaver is a hireling/cohort/whatever She'll be amazing. One action (at level 7 a move action no less) everyone in your party who's all tightly pacted surrounding your caster gains bears' strength or bulls endurence or something equally awesome. Heck even something like invisibility suddenly your dwarven slow moving kill-wall dissapears. only to reappear just slightly over there, killing everything in it's path. As for a defence against casters, you could have that same character either specialize in counter-spells if she's not buffing the party or find some good items for your party that will lessen the damage. She'd walk around with a tone of Dispel Magic and False life or something to stop any bad spells or temporarily repair the damage. Also check out the Teamwork benefits in heroes of battle and PHB2 I think. since you've got a lot of similar characters you'll qualify for a few of them easier than most parties. As for a weapon, I don't know of anything you might like better than something else, but any character you've got who doesn't normally stand on the front line, but the second one (a cohort, your flag-bearer fo rinstance) should have a reach weapon so s/he can still poke enemies past your shield wall. and if you don't know check heroes of battle for those banners/flags that hang off of reach weapons (though you likely already know that) Take a peek at Bard, Dragon Shaman and Marshal (PHB2 and Mini's handbook) their aura's are really useful if you stay together. Like you seem to be. A good thing to remember, you'll likely be delaying until the last person's turn each round then going all at once. Which unfortunatly means you're probably going last or close to it each combat. Take a few minutes and work out some typical battle stratagies for combat ahead of time so you don't have to spend half an hour thinking out what you're going to do each battle. Oh and props on finding a good use for commander auras~
Adamaro23 08-28-07, 04:51 PM	I agree with putting fortification on our armors, Dou you think that we'd be safe with a wand of Dispel Magic?
Adamaro23 08-28-07, 06:58 PM	Or a wand of Globe of Invulnerablility Lesser?
dknight100 08-28-07, 08:04 PM	One thing to make you all a little more deadly would be investing in boots of striding and springing or flying carpets, in order to get your movement up. Flying carpets would be best, but are rather expensive - they would let you fly @ 40ft (doubling your movement), and you would be flying. Other than that, you'll be wanting resistances, and generally things to help you vs ranged magic.
Adamaro23 08-29-07, 12:58 AM	The problems about the Boots is that all of us need them... They've all spent their money, i'm the only one left to spend gold. And i'm looking at around 6,000gp. And also about the carpet, we wanted to stay like a traditional Phalanx. So none of us ever want to fly.
8for47 08-29-07, 01:34 AM	Do you have access to the Tome of Battle? I'm asking because Dwarven Defenders are too easily countered by backing up 5 ft. Whereas going Warblade and taking stuff from White Raven and/or Stone Dragon would certainly fit your theme as well as giving you more options tactically. Additionally the Deepstone Sentinal is a Dwarf only Prestige Class that is similar to the Dwarven Defender but you are able to 5ft step or move without losing your class abilities. You may want some ranged options, Heavy Repeating Crossbow screams Dwarf to me and would make for an interesting opening salvo or would go to good use if things decide not to close with you. Having a Dwarven War Drummer (Bard) cohort would certainly come in useful as they buff the entire team as well, give him two weapon fighting and use two heavy maces as his drum sticks and give him a big kettle drum that he uses as his instrument.
LoneStranger 08-29-07, 03:09 AM	I don't really have any advice, I just wanted to congratulate your group on having that many people who like Dwarves all in one place. *sniff* It's so beautiful man, I can't believe it.
Adamaro23 08-29-07, 07:31 AM	I really like the idea of the Dwarven War Drummer. And after looking over the Warblade/Crusader i'm wondering, can you do maneuvers/stances without the weapon assoicated with your Martial Discipline? I've read over Tome of Battle three times, and haven't been able to find an answer. Also if you could point me to the page that says you can/can't that would be very helpful. And I think Crusader (with White Raven and Devoted Spirit) is more "ally helping" than Warblade with White Raven and Stone Dragon. Unless there's something i'm missing...
Shadowhowler 08-29-07, 08:47 AM	I really like the idea of the Dwarven War Drummer. And after looking over the Warblade/Crusader i'm wondering, can you do maneuvers/stances without the weapon assoicated with your Martial Discipline? I've read over Tome of Battle three times, and haven't been able to find an answer. Also if you could point me to the page that says you can/can't that would be very helpful. And I think Crusader (with White Raven and Devoted Spirit) is more "ally helping" than Warblade with White Raven and Stone Dragon. Unless there's something i'm missing... Yeah... you don't HAVE to use the disciplines prefered weapons to use your maneuvers and stances... those are just the weapons traditionaly associated with the disciplne... and some classes (like swordsage) and some feats grant you bonues when you use the discipline's favored weapons. I can't point you to the page right now... don't have the book in front of me... but I 100% promise you... you could use the 'Stone Bones' Attack maneuver just as well with a dagger of a spiked chain or whatever as you could with Stone Dragons favored weapons. As for a Crusader being more 'helpfull' to ally's then Warblade... no, you didn't miss anything. With Devoted Spirit on their side, Crusaders make EXCELENT 'battle buddies' to have around. I'm just not a very big fan of the mechanic they use to keep track of and regain their maneuvers... it's kinda wonky. However, a Crusader would be VERY at home in your pile of Dwarves.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 08-29-07, 10:20 AM	Read my above post as to how to avoid that? Read the rules as to how it can only be somewhat mitigated, not nullified?
Empirate 08-29-07, 11:57 AM	This Phalanx would become even more fun if all of you began taking levels in Devoted Defender! Has it been updated to 3.5 (don't have my CW handy...)?
Krusk 08-29-07, 12:52 PM	I would suggest boots of haste to speed your group up when you try to move places. Fortification armor to cancel out the rogues who might try to break your ranks. and two rings to help with casters. First rings of elemental resistance. Switch them out as needed, and they should help against your low touch AC -orb of X- and your low reflex saves -Fireball-. Second get a ring of spell turning, to counteract people who target you with save or die spells. you might want to consider a sorcerer cohort to sit in the middle of your group. His job can be to be the dedicated counterspeller spending all of all combats with a readied dispell magic greater to deal with casters.
Ack 08-29-07, 01:20 PM	I don't really have any advice, I just wanted to congratulate your group on having that many people who like Dwarves all in one place. *sniff* It's so beautiful man, I can't believe it. Represent, man! Represent! :D (Dwarves are seriously my favourite kick-ass race) :fight!: Though I would suggest you use Stone Plate (Races of Stone) to get around any use of Heat Metal :D (Stone Plate - the armour that screams Dwarf :D)
Dog_O_War 08-29-07, 01:36 PM	Man that is something I have always wanted to do, but could never convince more than one player to try it. Like 8for47 said, Tome of Battle. You don't even need to take levels in those classes, just the feat (Martial Study) will often be enough. That and if I were you I would most definately go the White Raven path.
Divokej 08-29-07, 07:42 PM	What are you going to do about horse calvalry? (I'm not trying to bring you down, just well, they're phalanx killers.) I hope you have a good fighter who can work outside of the 'zone of death' that is the group. (I would suggest a psychic warrior with spiked chain, combat reflexes and stand still.)
Iczer 08-29-07, 09:29 PM	Represent, man! Represent! :D (Dwarves are seriously my favourite kick-ass race) :fight!: Though I would suggest you use Stone Plate (Races of Stone) to get around any use of Heat Metal :D (Stone Plate - the armour that screams Dwarf :D) Rock to mud.
LoneStranger 08-30-07, 01:20 AM	Represent, man! Represent! :D (Dwarves are seriously my favourite kick-ass race) :fight!: Though I would suggest you use Stone Plate (Races of Stone) to get around any use of Heat Metal :D (Stone Plate - the armour that screams Dwarf :D) Nah, Mountain Plate as Dwarven Defenders. You ain't gettin anywhere in a hurry but that's the point. Slap on both "levels" of Heavy Armor Optimization that helps get you into Fortress Dwarf territory.
Adamaro23 08-30-07, 02:18 AM	Nah, Mountain Plate as Dwarven Defenders. You ain't gettin anywhere in a hurry but that's the point. Slap on both "levels" of Heavy Armor Optimization that helps get you into Fortress Dwarf territory. This is what our Paladin did. He's the "damage-dealing" person in the group. I'm more-or-less the party's meatshield. But for my upcoming companion (leadership), should he be: 1. A Bard, mostly for countersong, but the extra's are nice. 2. An Artificer, mostly for Use Magic Device so he can use wand of Globe of Invulnerability, lesser. 3. A Ranger, focusing on ranged (rapid shot, manyshot,etc..) from behind the formation. 4. Another Fighter heading towards Dwarven Defender, but based on massive damage. The problem is the last two won't help us vs. spellcasters... But it wouldn't be bad to have more damage based melee fighters. I really like the idea of the bard. Also, i've looked over all the prestige classes, but i'm still going to be a Dwarven Defender. One last thing that might be funny if you're familiar with them... I'm going to introduce the idea that each of us in our group should roleplay our Dwarves like the characters in the A-Team :D.
dknight100 08-30-07, 02:38 AM	lol, do the A-team man, do the a team. The real question is who of your dwarves will manage to be Faceman and murdock?
Adamaro23 08-30-07, 02:54 AM	lol, do the A-team man, do the a team. The real question is who of your dwarves will manage to be Faceman and murdock? Murdock is most likely the Paladin surprisingly, he's the only one based on killing. Faceman will probably be the Bard should I get him. We'll have B.A. Baracus as the Artificer if I don't get a Bard I'd probably be Hannibal (I'll have leadership) I'm not so sure about who the Cleric would be...
Ack 08-30-07, 04:49 AM	Rock to mud. Does anyone actually memorise that spell these days? :P
Adamaro23 08-30-07, 08:00 PM	But again, what class should my follower be?
Dog_O_War 08-30-07, 11:41 PM	The bard's morale bonuses are redundant since you are that mountain dwarf race with the morale bonus; what you need is a spotter. Take a ranger with the distracting shot option to pelt foes and to give you flanking bonuses; with the cleric there you could have the ranger shoot spell casters with held actions to disrupt spell-casting, and the cleric can cast silence on javelins for the ranger to throw to further disrupt spell-casting. I would go with ranger, as they get search as a class skill and dwarves can detect stonework traps without having to actively look, so you have the added benefit of some trap detection without having to take it to the face.
Adamaro23 08-31-07, 01:53 AM	Not that I don't like the ranger, I just don't want to have a third Ranger in the group Here's our group: Fighter 4/Crusader 1 Cleric 5 Paladin 5 Ranger 5 (based on ranged) Ranger 5 (based on TWF) Rogue 5 (based on ranged) The other players are playing the rangers/rogue in spite of us playing dwarves, they HATE dwarves in every way possible. In addition to them not playing the Phalanx of dwarves, they decided to play Chaotic Neutral since we're all Lawful Good, and decided not to pick dwarven as a known language... So now they can roleplay their hatred in-game... They're sorta being jerks about it, we (dwarves) asked if they would be dwarves, they said no, and we were fine with that. And now they're mad at us because WE are doing it. The DM is having all of us start off knowing each other already, The cleric is my little brother (in game), the paladin is an old friend of our father, and when we left our dwarven halls of Burok Torn we left our even younger brother there for more training (until I get leadership). The problem the DM is having is trying to figure out why us Dwarves are hanging out with these rangers/rogue... Anyway just informing you of what's in the party already, I just really need to plan ahead of time for my Leadership companion. Would it be so terrible to have another Fighter but based on dealing tons of damage, because currently the Paladin's the only damage-dealer in our Phalanx, i'm the meatshield that taunts opponents to hit me, and the cleric heals. (don't worry about the dispute between us players, we'll get it worked out before game starts)
Shadowhowler 08-31-07, 09:39 AM	Hm... I can't offer suggestions as to your player-party problems... But for your 'little brother' cohort... I'd go with some kinda Arcane Caster, most likely a Wizard. All of your other Dwarf characetrs are harty, battle tested melee types... you youngest brother could be sorta meek by Dwarf standereds... small and not as strong... but blinding intelegent. If he looks up to his older brothers... he would want to adventure with them... and prove to them his worth, even if it be threw a differant path then they. He could stay inside your formation, protected, and work magic at your foes and counterspell magic directed at you. Also, your party does not have an arcane caster... so, it would be VERY usefull to have one. Later, he can even craft magic items for his 'family'. Anyway... just a thought.
re1oaded 08-31-07, 11:34 AM	I dare you to say this: Dwarves, tonight we dine in hell!
Dog_O_War 08-31-07, 05:55 PM	Man, the others hate dwarves eh? You should abandon them in the night as no dwarf worth his booze would put up with them; if it comes down to a fight (as most DMs dread, and this can wreck the game) make sure 'your' side doesn't start it; besides I bet they don't hate dwarves that much as none of the rangers have favored enemy; dwarf. This is most likely because they still want to be campaign effective and don't have an ounce of RP or party comradere in their blood. Like I said; don't start any fights, just finish them. As much as I hate to lose out on what may be potentially a good game, a hostile atmosphere is worse if it continues to exist. A suggestion for your 'little brother' cohort: same class you are. and maybe take the [I]mentor feat from DMG II instead to show a closer bond than normal with him. Perhaps he could use a polearm from the rear rank, eventually taking lunging strike? Also, if you're still worried about mage protection, the silence spell cast on a thrown weapon is still really effective, and you don't even need to hit for it to work.
LoneStranger 09-01-07, 01:34 AM	Yeah that's kinda annoying with people coming up with a reason for their characters to give other people's characters garbage in game. Just remember to keep an eye on how they fight in battles so when they do try to start something, you'll have an idea of how to counter it. Also remember that if they do resort to infighting your group should never land the first blow, but the last one. Basically let them start the fight but have your "side" finish it. Hopefully it won't come to that though.
Dog_O_War 09-01-07, 09:21 PM	hehe given the hitpoint slant in favor of the dwarves, the rangers most likely unwilling to get close enough for the rogue to gain flanking bonuses (and thus sneak attack, let alone hit) it should be pretty easy. Go team dwarf.
Divokej 09-02-07, 03:03 PM	Bard, he should be a bard. He can sing fighting songs, drinking songs and if you're all broke he can sing money songs. He can UMD, like the artificer; he can also do the ranged, like the ranger. Not so much the massive damage, though if you went to the CharOp boards I bet you could get some help.
Callista 09-02-07, 09:47 PM	Hey, I just wanted to say I think you guys have a good thing going. Sounds like it's going to be fun!
Divokej 09-03-07, 12:39 AM	Oh, let us know how the strife is solved. I'm curious. Thank you.
roggwil 09-25-07, 05:18 PM	To give your chracters some spell defense buy a scarab of protection giving you spell resistance 15, normally it has 12 charges against death attacks therefore re the DMG a scarab with only one charge would be worth a 12th or 3,166gp :eek: