Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dragonseth 03-22-06, 12:43 PM	Just curious how this is handled elsewhere... When one of our characters dies, we have a choice: Either, we get to strip his body and sell his stuff, and the new guy comes in dirt poor, Or his stuff poofs and the new guy comes in with equipment good for his level How do people in other groups handle this normally? Just curious.
erc1971 03-22-06, 01:01 PM	That is looking at things from a Metagaming perspective. In reality, your characters would no know someone is going to march along and replace him. The real questions are how much respect for the dead do your characters have? What is custom for taking care of the dead? In Egypt, many were buried with thier belongings so they could be taken with them in the afterlife. In good old America, the dead make a will so thier family gets thier stuff ;) So most likely, it would be whether to bury your dead companion's items with him, or use them to carry on good deeds in his name. As for a new character joining the party - that is what the wealth guides in the DMG are for - so new characters can get outfitted properly to start. Eric
Keebler_the_Elf 03-22-06, 01:22 PM	I think the point the OP is making is from an OOC perspective. In the past I have played the same way. If the group takes the dead character's items, then they are responsible for outfitting the new character when he walks in. If the group puts the dead body into the ground with his posessions, then the new character uses the tables in the DMG to find out starting wealth, and the DM adjusts it if he feels his campaign is more/less than the table. Then the group meets the new player nicely outfitted and he/she joins up. I don't think we ever have looted a dead comrade and gotten a new player full of stuff. Actually I don't think we have ever looted a dead comrade at all, we always send them off in full armor/equipment etc.
wonlee76 03-22-06, 02:31 PM	I really hate option I (looting and selling) since this causes PCs who are lucky enough to survive to have slightly inflated wealth for their level while replacement PC is dirt poor unless the group metagames and gives the profits they earned from the dead PC to the dirt poor new PC. Option II is the "fairer" method though makes little sense to leave the former PC's body with all of his belongings. What I do is a form of Option II. The group loots the dead PC, sells enough of that loot to Raise Dead the PC, PC retires quietly (with whatever is left of his loot) and new PC gets introduced at full wealth for his level -1 level of his former PC (1/2 way to next level) since I don't want players to make a new PC as a way to get out of the level loss penalty associated with being raised/ressed. In the alternative, bury the dead PC with all his stuff so that new PC comes in fully loaded. Raise Dead is not prohibitively expensive (Under 8k gold iirc from an NPC, 5k only if from the party cleric) to get done. Death isn't permanent in D&D. What is permanent is losing a level from Raise Dead/Ress. True Ress usually costs too much at the low-mid levels to get done due to the 25k costs.
jaydubyadub 03-22-06, 04:03 PM	See this... this is why you write a background that includes your next of kin. =P It's easy if the character is a monk, cleric, or paladin - just donate everything to a church or monestary of their diety / order. Otherwise, give them magical weapons to the dead NPC's family. Who knows, Redgar may be dead, but little Redgar Jr. might join your party one day.
OravennasBrother 03-22-06, 06:44 PM	Depending on the location there may be very specific laws concerning the belongings of the deceased. Aside from that it is "Meta-gaming" on the part of the DM to penalize a player's character because the other player's characters looted a body. After all, looting the dead is a staple of D&D :D
Ashok_Lal 03-22-06, 11:49 PM	option 3: My charicter has a will that tells the party to bring me back to life! Im happy to loose the level. Otherwise my body will be stripped before i have a chance to hit the ground. Thay will make me pay for the raise dead but its not so bad as we have a cleric who just reached high enough level to cast it.
Mitchell 03-23-06, 01:15 AM	I let the players decide what they are going to do with dead guy's stuff and let the new character come in with wealth according to character level spent however they want it. If the survivors want to give the new guy an item or two, that's their perogative. If they want to keep it all or sell it or whatever, that's fine too. I will periodically check things out and run an adjustment adventure or two where I give out a little more or less to compensate. I can always throw in a little something targetted towards the new guy if I fell they are lagging behind, and I can always go light if I feel the party is ahead of the curve. The only things that are worth full value are the things that they keep to use (and are fully charged, when applicable) anyway. If they sell off dead guy's gear because they don't need it, they aren't getting all of his value anyway.
Darkuwa 03-23-06, 01:28 AM	The items stay. By the time its unbalanced to have them remain the characters can afford reserections.
b3jsd73jfx 03-23-06, 01:40 AM	Option 4: Depends on how the character dies. For instance, our one fighter killed a thief who had contingeny: fireball cast on himself when he died. Well when the fireball went off, it kill our fighter. Because of the fact it was a fireball that killed the player, he had to roll for each magical item on his body to see if it would blow up as well. To be honest, i've never actually had a situation where it comes down to that. Either we resurrect the person who died or a player has turned evil, killed someone, and stolen their loot in the middle of the night.
xanadu 03-23-06, 01:45 AM	LOOT THE CORPSE :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh
was_fired 03-23-06, 02:18 AM	I always went with a loot the dead method myself. Then again PCs in my game tend to end up with subpar wealth thanks to poor random treasure rolls so it balances out. New characters past level 2 or 3 have their wealth randomly generated until it roughly hits their required value for their level. They can then sell any item they had for 1/2 its worth to custom fit items to their tastes or just to give them a gold supply (in the case of the many many scroll rolls that even fighters get).
Khisanth Magus 03-23-06, 01:47 PM	Provided the person's belongings survive their death(which in the campaign i'm in right now it rarely happens...the DM just generally says that whatever blew up the person's body blew up the magical items with it), or the party takes whatever magical items they can carry from the body. On the other hand, 90%+ of our party's accumulated wealth has been gotten this way. The DM gives us absolute crap for loot(yet the bad guys always manage to have good equipment...that dissapears when they die), so we have to completely rely on the loot from our own party members...I mean, heck, the only cure potions the party has are the emergency ones my fighter brought in at creation(we havn't seen a town in like 3 months of playing, both in and out of game).
Lincoln Hills 03-24-06, 05:59 PM	Ain't it funny how this group of four (or whatever) diverse people have absolute, to-the-death loyalty to their comrades and sure knowledge that there are such things as ghosts and the afterlife... yet they have absolutely no respect for the property rights of their buddies the instant that buddy is dead? Cleric: Alas, poor What's-yer-name, I was not in time, OK, enough mourning, let's divide up his stuff. I've thankfully only had to deal with the situation two or three times, but in no case did our group roll the naked body in a hole and start squabbling over our "friend's" most cherished possessions. I know that's the most "pragmatic, logical" thing to do from the out-of-game standpoint, but it's pretty ghoulish.
taradusis 03-26-06, 11:02 AM	In my game there was a town with a church that would rent a chest to store junk in.A will attached to the chest said who should be notified in case of death and the party would deposit only magic items into the memento chest,the rest was divvied up as a reward for "proper burial".
Leap_UK 03-26-06, 11:09 AM	Personally I go with the "bury/burn with their personal items" (so staffs for wizzies, armour and main weapon for fighters etc)
Mist of Shadows 03-26-06, 02:02 PM	We have done a bit of both the bury them with weapons in the past and bit of loot them and bury the body with a master work sword instead or nothing. It depends mostly on the party and how they came together and how well liked the person was. The last person that died was a beloved friend so they carted her body back for burial or raising of the dead. There was no discussion of looting her. Other times the dm has tossed the party together and we don't really get along so yeah we looted the body of gold and magical items and kept the ones we wanted. We sort of kept a good number of the items we wanted and the rest went to the general sell to other adventurers where we found them. We have once or twice in 20 years or so had a new pc come in dirt poor and have to supply them with equipment, they were a ex-slave we freed. They normally got a weapon from the party loot bin and maybe some magical defense item that no one else could use. But we by no means gave the perfect stranger vast amounts of wealth. We also kept watch on the new person for a long time. That could be because the dm was evil and liked to include players in his evil. So new people were watched until they proved themselves. We have also looted the bodies of characters and raised them. Used spells and such things to change the appearance of the items and lied saying we had to sell the loot to pay for the raise dead. The dm in our game stays out of the deviding of loot. Not to say that the level of thieves that target pcs doesn't increase a lot if one character is being horribly greedy. I see no reason to have a player come in dirt poor with no reason. Though we also have a rule that says only 1st level pcs or monsters with 1 class level can join the game. Meaning that if a person needs a new character they run a few solo adventures to gain the loot and exp to be around the level of the pcs. That's where ecl's and monster hd are nice. We do this because it gives the people more of a connection to their characters and you don't suddenly have some general or something for the king (level 10) character head off adventuring that wasn't made until five minutes ago. Most of the pcs in the games I play in are cautious paraniod people so dead pcs aren't all that common.
taradusis 04-05-06, 10:38 PM	Did you make a decision on wills--funeral exspences?Treasure division is always tricky,does your party have a kitty or community chest?Perhaps a secure place or person to hold your stuff,really important to have a backup spellbook and a grubstake put aside? :)
dragonseth 04-05-06, 10:51 PM	Actually, our DM decided to have our group keep the loot the dead guy had. We just assume that there is adequate gear to have a proper funeral. Thanks for the input on this, our DM apparently saw this thread.
jasper 04-06-06, 08:27 AM	loot the dead. new guy comes with 3 potions of clw, and maybe a magic weapon. If the group is magic heavy and has stuff the new pc can use, then only 3 CLW. Look a to me a new pc is npc who has fallen into the group, or a old pc who had a bad run of luck and taking the adventure trail again to get wealth again. Wills and other stuff only work if the players allow it. Sorry I don't care if the halfling wanted the ring to go to his cousin Sam. That wiseacre is not here and he can ask me for the ring if and when I return to the shire.
nightwing 04-06-06, 10:27 AM	In my campaigns, how characters treat their fallen comrades is very important: word gets around. Here is what society in general expects of adventurers in order of preference: 1. It is expected that all adventurers (including the slain one) will contribute equally to raising a fallen comrade if possible. Once that is done, all his remaining wealth and equipment should be returned to him. 2. If that is not possible because they are too poor or because there is no one available to work the appropriate magic, the remaining characters should take the body to the nearest appropriate temple/church to have him buried. It is right and proper for characters to use the fallen comrade's equipment if they need it in the course of returning the body, but then all of the fallen comrade's remaining equipment and wealth should be delivered to his family. Burial costs should be in proportion to the party's wealth (perhaps 10% of total party wealth), and every member should be expected to contribute to the burial costs. This reflects that wealthier, more powerful people have more elaborate coffins, gravesites, and monuments in their honor than poorer, less successful adventurers. 3. If the body can not be returned to civilization it should be buried "in the field" and his equipment and wealth should be carried until it can be returned to the deceased's family. 4. If the fallen's family or next of kin can not be found, his wealth and equipment should be donated to some cause or institution that he would have approved of. If characters fail to do these things, it is likely that word will spread, earning the adventurers a bad reputation, resulting in less cooperation from the community, and fewer volunteers, hirelings, cooperative NPC's. It may even result in higher prices for food, lodging, and equipment as locals come to resent the party's mistreatment of the dead.
Tiran 04-06-06, 02:59 PM	It's not a videogame. He has his own set of equipment when the character is made.
kelvinaw273 04-06-06, 03:53 PM	Well, I think it is a BIG blindspot in D&D settings and in the RPing of players and the background research of DMs (gosh, I just insulted all players, all DMs and WotC in one sentence) that one of the most fundamental features of any culture has been completely ommitted from all aspects of the rules: Funurary Traditions. That is, how to bury the dead. How you treat the dead depends on whether they were an enemy or a friend. If they were an enemy, then in most traditions, anything goes. That's cool by D&D, and works ok. But what about friends? Look at the way the Ancient Egyptians, or the Celts, laid their dead to rest with all their riches and arms. Look at how the Fellowship dealt with the fallen Boromir in LOTR. Most Funurary traditions work along the principal of: You CAN take it with you - in fact, you'll need it where you're going! In such culture, stripping your dead friends is an Evil act, even a crime. You may argue that in Western Christian culture this isn't the case. I'll agree - all their earthly goods should of course be handed to their next-of-kin. In yet other cultures (such as Romany) the goods of the deceased should be destroyed to stop their spirit hanging around as a ghost. Now imagine the situation, your companion is dead and they have all this expensive gear. PC1: OK lets strip him - I bags the magic sword. PC2: What?! but he'll need that to fight the demons! PC1: What demons? PC2: The ones lurking in the Desert of Forever. I tell you, you take that sword, you're condemning his soul. PC3: Well, I say we take his gold to his mother. He always said he wanted her to have the fruits of his adventuring. PC4: What, so his spirit can come back and haunt her? Better to bury it with him! PC1: {thinlking about grave robbing later} Yeah, good move ... PC2: The ones lurking between him and the afterlife - unless he is well armed, they'll have his soul before
Nephlite 04-06-06, 04:16 PM	Just curious how this is handled elsewhere... When one of our characters dies, we have a choice: Either, we get to strip his body and sell his stuff, and the new guy comes in dirt poor, Or his stuff poofs and the new guy comes in with equipment good for his level How do people in other groups handle this normally? Just curious. We usually have more options: If I included yours: 1. Guys dies, we can revive him and he keeps stuff. Maybe minus money it costs to revive unless we have group cash for this purpose. 2. Strip body and revive him, but that might anger him and leave him poor 3. Don't strip body and bury it (waste but some people respect the dead). 4. Sell stuff and guy rolls new character with money according to guidelines in DMG. 5. Stuff poofs and new guy has guideline money 1. makes sense: why should you steal from a party member. 2. Possible, but destroys group trust. 3. Possible; some people respect dead. 4. Most logical, though you should roleplay meeting new guy. 5. Non-logical world. Destroys any consistency in the game.
Mist of Shadows 04-07-06, 05:48 PM	:censored: Said by Nightwing If characters fail to do these things, it is likely that word will spread, earning the adventurers a bad reputation, resulting in less cooperation from the community, and fewer volunteers, hirelings, cooperative NPC's. It may even result in higher prices for food, lodging, and equipment as locals come to resent the party's mistreatment of the dead. How is word supposed to get around? I'm sorry but if the only people that saw the character fall are the pcs and they take pains to alter the equipment. Unless it's something really unquie then fencing it shouldn't be an issue. They aren't going to tell the people what happened to the equipment. The characters mother doesn't have any idea how much gold her son had. He ran away to go adventuring after all. You faught with the pc you bled for that loot as well as him so by rights it should be yours when he dies. As for stripping the character and bringing him back that's bad form. As for not bringing him back cause you want his loot also bad form. As for things going puff (and he wasn't a pariiond wizard that actually worked out the spells to do that. Or signed some sort of pact of something, then that's when I leave a game cause it's just blantantly stupid.(imnsho) As for having the next character come in dirt poor that really hurts the guy that just lost his old character because really I'm not giving a 50,000 gp magical item to a guy I just met 5 minutes ago. This is not gamers Not even close. (stupid :censored: movie) any ways. As for funeral cost it depends on the pcs. I have traveled with people that would be lucky if I buried them in a wooden box let alone a funeral that cost me 10% of the party wealth. That's up there for stupid things in my book. Now if the characters want to give the guy a lavish funeral then by all means let them :) It's a great way to drain some of the money from the pcs. But you shouldn't set a cost on a funeral. As a dm you should say it costs this much and this much to be buried here here and here or with this type of coffin or this type of thing. But it's not your job to tell the pcs how they have to bury the party member. On the other hand :) If the party member was say a cleric :) His temple might send people after his magical items and loot. They could argue that everything that belonged to the cleric now belongs to the church. This might be legal in some places or it might not be. You still have to deal with it. Npcs shouldn't react to things they can't witness though. Funerals are only as nice as the party or family of the dead guy pays for. As for the guy needing the weapons in the after life you don't in standard dnd. But that could change. 150,000 gold and one evil act for damning a guy's soul to oblivian (which my character may or may not even believe in.) I can always kill a whole bunch of creatures in his name to repent. Besides who ever said I would leave him without a weapon ? :) I just want his super magical weapon. He can have this nice masterwork sword that was his fathers but never used cause it wasn't magical. That's a better weapon for him in the afterlife anyways isn't it? ;) It just depends on the pcs, the dm should stay out of it. Unless you have a player that tanks a character in a way you feel is metagaming. For example if he has been wanting to play a new character and has a magical item that he wants to give to another player so he figures out a way to die so he can play his new character and have his friend get the item. In that case you should take steps to have something go wrong with the plan. (Shouldn't happen much but you never know.)
kelvinaw273 04-08-06, 04:36 AM	:censored: How is word supposed to get around? I'm sorry but if the only people that saw the character fall are the pcs and they take pains to alter the equipment. Unless it's something really unquie then fencing it shouldn't be an issue. They aren't going to tell the people what happened to the equipment. The characters mother doesn't have any idea how much gold her son had. He ran away to go adventuring after all. You faught with the pc you bled for that loot as well as him so by rights it should be yours when he dies. Depends on the beliefs of the characters in question, really. If they are a mercenary bunch who don't give a fig for the gods or the afterlife, this is cool. As for stripping the character and bringing him back that's bad form. As for not bringing him back cause you want his loot also bad form. As for things going puff (and he wasn't a pariiond wizard that actually worked out the spells to do that. Or signed some sort of pact of something, then that's when I leave a game cause it's just blantantly stupid.(imnsho) As for having the next character come in dirt poor that really hurts the guy that just lost his old character because really I'm not giving a 50,000 gp magical item to a guy I just met 5 minutes ago. This is not gamers Not even close. (stupid :censored: movie) any ways. Agreed. As for funeral cost it depends on the pcs. I have traveled with people that would be lucky if I buried them in a wooden box let alone a funeral that cost me 10% of the party wealth. That's up there for stupid things in my book. Now if the characters want to give the guy a lavish funeral then by all means let them :) It's a great way to drain some of the money from the pcs. But you shouldn't set a cost on a funeral. As a dm you should say it costs this much and this much to be buried here here and here or with this type of coffin or this type of thing. But it's not your job to tell the pcs how they have to bury the party member. Now, this depends on whether a bunch of people who annoy supernatural creatures (demons, gods etc) and face death on a regular basis really care what heppens to their souls after death. If you have just earned the emnity of Set, Apophis and three major demons, would you want to hack off Annubis, whose job it is to escort your soul safely into the next life, as well? I mean it's your call, really. But in a world where you might get a raise dead spell cast on you, being in good keeping with the gods can count for A LOT. On the other hand :) If the party member was say a cleric :) His temple might send people after his magical items and loot. They could argue that everything that belonged to the cleric now belongs to the church. This might be legal in some places or it might not be. You still have to deal with it. Npcs shouldn't react to things they can't witness though. Funerals are only as nice as the party or family of the dead guy pays for. As for the guy needing the weapons in the after life you don't in standard dnd. But that could change. 150,000 gold and one evil act for damning a guy's soul to oblivian (which my character may or may not even believe in.) I can always kill a whole bunch of creatures in his name to repent. Besides who ever said I would leave him without a weapon ? :) I just want his super magical weapon. He can have this nice masterwork sword that was his fathers but never used cause it wasn't magical. That's a better weapon for him in the afterlife anyways isn't it? ;) There's a point, and in addition perhaps characters who think ahead could bequeath their items to others, make a will or similar specifying how their wealth should be divided. In a culture that takes it with them, you are not likely to get your father's sword, or else you could have specific 'funeral' goods made just for placing in a coffin with you and specially blessed (of course, that costs money). It just depends on the pcs, the dm should stay out of it. Unless you have a player that tanks a character in a way you feel is metagaming. For example if he has been wanting to play a new character and has a magical item that he wants to give to another player so he figures out a way to die so he can play his new character and have his friend get the item. In that case you should take steps to have something go wrong with the plan. (Shouldn't happen much but you never know.) The DM should advise the players of the traditions of the world, but let them decide the fate of their companion, it is true. But the Dm should also decide on the consequences of their actions. Player 1: I cast raise dead on {player 2} DM: Nothing happens Player 1: What? Player 2: But I want to come back! DM: Yes, but you have to be escorted to the Temple of On for judgement first. Only if you pass will your friends petition to return you to life be heard. I explained all of that in the begining, remember? Player 1: Hang on, but my god Geb isn't the god of the dead, so he can do it anyway, right? DM: No, the gods have a strict pecking order. Your god files a request with Osiris, and if approved at the Temple of On by Isis and Ma'at, Anubis escorts his soul back to his body and Osiris empowers him with life. Player 2: Ok, how do I get to the Temple of On? DM: A servant of Anubis takes you. Player 2: Ok, where is this servant? DM: He hasn't showed yet. Player 2: Hey, Anubis, you have a customer! DM: You hear a growling, slavering sound. Just out of reach is [describes horrible demon] that is clearly waiting for you to leave the surroundings of your corpse. Your link to the body is growing weak. Player 1: Oh sod, where is Anubis? What does he look like? DM: He's the jackel-headed black dude - you know, the one there were all those statues of in the temple you sacked? Player 3: That was a temple of Anubis? DM: Yep. Player 4: They were in that tomb complex, too, weren't they? DM: The one you broke into and looted, yes. Player 2: Oh frag ... I'll draw my sword and get ready to fight. DM: What sword? Looking down you can see your body has been stripped already. Looks like {Player 4} the other fighter couldn't wait to get hold of that +2 Keen longsword of yours. You know he always liked it ... How good are you at unarmed combat? Player 2: Mwah! DM: Oh, looks like a Jackel Headed guy has just showed up. Player 2: Thank God you're here ... Servant: Really ... hey, don't I recognise you? Player 2: I've never seen you before, honest. Servant: Oh yeah, you were one of the 'friends' of Thenk the Just! Player 2: Oh yeah, Thenk, he was one swell guy ... Servant: He certainly was - half the demons in the underworld, and him and me had to fight our way through with him in just his jockstrap! You bastards didn't even leave him a dagger, nothing! No funeral to drive off the demons, no grave goods, it was a miracle we both made it! And the Boss told me to tell you he is NOT HAPPY with you or your friends. He knows the High Priest was corrupt, but you didn't have to smash the statues, did you? Player 2: Yeah, I'm sorry about that ... Servant: And as for the tomb ... you know the curse? That's him over there {jerks thumb at the demon}. So I've got orders not to intervene. If he can get you, he can have you. I'm off to On now, so if you can make it, good for you. If not, well {shrugs} no skin off my nose. Player 2: You bastard ... DM: Reap what you sow, boy, reap what you sow ....
stabs 04-08-06, 05:29 AM	I let the PCs loot the body if they want, and the new guy comes in with standard wealth. It came up a while ago with a PC who's been annoying me with constant Metagaming. His old character had died, and he bought wealth for his new character assuming he could get all his old characters items. However, there was an NPC Cleric of Kelemvor present. (Kelemvor is a god of the dead, and does not approve of looting. He wasn't a DMPC, note, he was just in that building at the time) The conversation went something like: Him: "I loot the body." Me: The cleric lowers his blade towards you "Stay thy hand, lest you lose it!" Him: OoC: But I'll get my old stuff eventually right? Me: Didn't you just spend 19000 gold on stuff? Him: But (>.> i boght it hoping i could get Prom's old stuff too.) Other PC: you thought wrong dude Me: Uh, try to think in character. Your guy wouldn't know that he didn't need to buy Bracers of Dex. I'm not actually stopping you OoC, just the Kelemvite is. (who was about half the PC's level) The other (smart) PC then told the Kelemvite that he'd give the dead guy a proper burial, proceeded to carry off the body, and loot him out of sight -_^
Mist of Shadows 04-08-06, 01:21 PM	kelvinaw273 The DM should advise the players of the traditions of the world, but let them decide the fate of their companion, it is true. But the Dm should also decide on the consequences of their actions. Oh I agree with the consiquinces and your comment about the god of the dead being rather hacked off about looting his temple. My pcs have never been stupid enough to loot temples. As for the fathers sword you're probably right but specially blessed grave goods are a great idea. I mean I wouldn't want my friend to not have anything in the afterlife. I like the idea of the priest of the dead saying don't loot the dead.
kelvinaw273 04-09-06, 11:40 AM	It should be noted that among cultures where goods were buried with the dead grave robbing was considered the lowest crime imaginable. Where half the dungeons are undead-haunted catacombs, it doesn't say much for most PCs does it?
Mist of Shadows 04-09-06, 01:11 PM	Not really no :) But if we had morals we wouldn't be adventurers we would be off farming or being a merchant er well farming anyways. I know I would dig up graves for magical items. But well doesn't mean it's not icky, but it's the pcs choice if what they want to do with loot.
kelvinaw273 04-09-06, 05:00 PM	Not really no :) But if we had morals we wouldn't be adventurers we would be off farming or being a merchant er well farming anyways. I know I would dig up graves for magical items. But well doesn't mean it's not icky, but it's the pcs choice if what they want to do with loot. No Morals? I must remembeer that the next time I play a paladin. Or a good cleric. Or a character of any good alignment.