Eagle's Splendor + Turn Undead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eagle's Splendor + Turn Undead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
quill18
02-28-08, 11:45 AM Would Eagle's Splendor increase your maximum uses of Turn Undead per day during that 1 min/level duration?

Example: Cleric with CHA 12 has already used his 4 (3+CHA mod) turn attempts. He then buffs himself with Eagle's Splendor and uses Turn Undead twice more before the spell expires.

Casting Eagle's Splendor later in the day has no effect as his (buffed) maximum of 6 turnings has already been reached.
DyloniusFunk
02-28-08, 12:03 PM Would Eagle's Splendor increase your maximum uses of Turn Undead per day during that 1 min/level duration?

Example: Cleric with CHA 12 has already used his 4 (3+CHA mod) turn attempts. He then buffs himself with Eagle's Splendor and uses Turn Undead twice more before the spell expires.

Casting Eagle's Splendor later in the day has no effect as his (buffed) maximum of 6 turnings has already been reached.

I belive you are correct. And it looks like the RAW agrees.

Eagle’s Splendor
Transmutation
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Pal 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes

The transmuted creature becomes more poised, articulate, and personally forceful. The spell grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Charisma, adding the usual benefits to Charisma-based skill checks and other uses of the Charisma modifier. Sorcerers and bards (and other spellcasters who rely on Charisma) affected by this spell do not gain any additional bonus spells for the increased Charisma, but the save DCs for spells they cast while under this spell’s effect do increase.

Note the Bold and Italic parts. The Bold part says that anything that benefits from Charisma benefits from the spell. However you'll notice in the Italic part it says specifcally that extra spells are not gained for casters who use CHA as thier casting stat. I think if Turn Undead were not affected by the spell it would be specifically stated in the description.
narack
02-28-08, 12:46 PM I think if Turn Undead were not affected by the spell it would be specifically stated in the description.

Correct.
Merestil Haye
02-28-08, 01:14 PM There is a discussion in the FAQ on how changing abilities affects a character's stats. The example used is Turn Undead. You might want to check it out - it's in the Cleric section.
quill18
02-28-08, 01:23 PM There is a discussion in the FAQ on how changing abilities affects a character's stats. The example used is Turn Undead. You might want to check it out - it's in the Cleric section.

Care to give me the remotest indication of which FAQ you mean? There's a FAQ in the forum, but I don't think it covers this. There's the WotC knowledge base, but I can't find anything related with my search terms. Similarly, a Google search returns an excess of trash -- if the answer is in there, I can't see it.

EDIT: This forum's FAQ has a link to the official FAQ. Even KNOWING THE TITLE OF THE PAGE, I was unable to find it via google. I blame D&D Online.

Anyway, the short answer is: It works exactly as described above.
Josheva
02-28-08, 02:41 PM I feel that I have read somewhere that only *constant* ability score changes affect uses per day. For example, a ring that gives +2 charisma while worn would give additional uses per day, but the eagle's splendor spell would not. Does anyone know where I might have read this? I may look into it later.
Demithor
02-28-08, 03:07 PM Uhm, I vaguely remember something about when your charisma drops, the total per day also drops down to it's usual level (obviously). Which means that if you have 5 uses of Turn Undead per day, get a charisma increase for a total of 7 attempts, then use 4 of these, charisma bonus drops, you now have one attempt left... Get it?

Ugh, my brain's On/Off switch is jammed midway today. What I'm trying to say, is, that extra turning attempts per day due to temporary charisma increase are used up last.

Been a while since I read up on it though, so you might want to make sure beyond my slurred words. *wink*
[Edit] And my possible total confusion on the matter.
quill18
02-28-08, 03:18 PM Again, to clarify -- this is the OP and I have found the answer referenced in the official FAQ.

Eagle's Splendor (and other CHA boosts, no matter how temporary) will allow you to exceed your normal daily limit.

EXAMPLE:

Cleric with CHA 12 has 4 uses per day.
Cleric has used three charges. 1 use left.

Cleric gains Eagle's Splendor and can now turn up to three times.
Cleric turns twice more, for a total of 5 times today. 1 use left.

Cleric loses Eagle's Splendor.
Since 5 is greater than or equal to 4, Cleric can no longer Turn Undead.

Cleric gains Eagle's Splendor again. 5 is less than 6, so the Cleric can now turn once.
Josheva
02-28-08, 04:05 PM Come to think of it, I believe that the idea I mentioned earlier was related to spellcasting. Temporary bonuses, such as those provided by eagle's splendor, do not give you bonus spells, while constant bonuses, such as the afore-mentioned ring, do. I am unsure as to whether or not this rule carries over to use per day abilities.
Merestil Haye
02-28-08, 09:11 PM Come to think of it, I believe that the idea I mentioned earlier was related to spellcasting. Temporary bonuses, such as those provided by eagle's splendor, do not give you bonus spells, while constant bonuses, such as the afore-mentioned ring, do. I am unsure as to whether or not this rule carries over to use per day abilities.When an ability changes, the new modifier affects everything related to that ability except for those things that the rules or the source of the change explicitly exclude.

A bard does not get bonus spells from Eagle's Splendour because the spell says you do not, and for no other reason. A Bard does get increased bonus spells from a Cloak of Charisma, because the Cloak says nothing about denying the Bard that benefit.
quill18
02-29-08, 09:28 AM A bard does not get bonus spells from Eagle's Splendour because the spell says you do not, and for no other reason. A Bard does get increased bonus spells from a Cloak of Charisma, because the Cloak says nothing about denying the Bard that benefit.

So presumably this also increases the level of spells you can cast? I.E. a Cleric with Wis 14 and a Periapt of Wisdom +6 could cast spells all the way up to level 9?

Sweeeeeeet...
Merestil Haye
02-29-08, 10:06 AM So presumably this also increases the level of spells you can cast? I.E. a Cleric with Wis 14 and a Periapt of Wisdom +6 could cast spells all the way up to level 9?

Sweeeeeeet...With the epic Improved Spell Capacity and Improved Heighten Spell feats, up to 10th level. Until someone breaks or steals the periapt. Then you're stuffed. So take good care of it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
quill18 02-28-08, 11:45 AM	Would Eagle's Splendor increase your maximum uses of Turn Undead per day during that 1 min/level duration? Example: Cleric with CHA 12 has already used his 4 (3+CHA mod) turn attempts. He then buffs himself with Eagle's Splendor and uses Turn Undead twice more before the spell expires. Casting Eagle's Splendor later in the day has no effect as his (buffed) maximum of 6 turnings has already been reached.
DyloniusFunk 02-28-08, 12:03 PM	Would Eagle's Splendor increase your maximum uses of Turn Undead per day during that 1 min/level duration? Example: Cleric with CHA 12 has already used his 4 (3+CHA mod) turn attempts. He then buffs himself with Eagle's Splendor and uses Turn Undead twice more before the spell expires. Casting Eagle's Splendor later in the day has no effect as his (buffed) maximum of 6 turnings has already been reached. I belive you are correct. And it looks like the RAW agrees. Eagle’s Splendor Transmutation Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Pal 2, Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Creature touched Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes The transmuted creature becomes more poised, articulate, and personally forceful. The spell grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Charisma, adding the usual benefits to Charisma-based skill checks and other uses of the Charisma modifier. Sorcerers and bards (and other spellcasters who rely on Charisma) affected by this spell do not gain any additional bonus spells for the increased Charisma, but the save DCs for spells they cast while under this spell’s effect do increase. Note the Bold and Italic parts. The Bold part says that anything that benefits from Charisma benefits from the spell. However you'll notice in the Italic part it says specifcally that extra spells are not gained for casters who use CHA as thier casting stat. I think if Turn Undead were not affected by the spell it would be specifically stated in the description.
narack 02-28-08, 12:46 PM	I think if Turn Undead were not affected by the spell it would be specifically stated in the description. Correct.
Merestil Haye 02-28-08, 01:14 PM	There is a discussion in the FAQ on how changing abilities affects a character's stats. The example used is Turn Undead. You might want to check it out - it's in the Cleric section.
quill18 02-28-08, 01:23 PM	There is a discussion in the FAQ on how changing abilities affects a character's stats. The example used is Turn Undead. You might want to check it out - it's in the Cleric section. Care to give me the remotest indication of which FAQ you mean? There's a FAQ in the forum, but I don't think it covers this. There's the WotC knowledge base, but I can't find anything related with my search terms. Similarly, a Google search returns an excess of trash -- if the answer is in there, I can't see it. EDIT: This forum's FAQ has a link to the official FAQ. Even KNOWING THE TITLE OF THE PAGE, I was unable to find it via google. I blame D&D Online. Anyway, the short answer is: It works exactly as described above.
Josheva 02-28-08, 02:41 PM	I feel that I have read somewhere that only constant ability score changes affect uses per day. For example, a ring that gives +2 charisma while worn would give additional uses per day, but the eagle's splendor spell would not. Does anyone know where I might have read this? I may look into it later.
Demithor 02-28-08, 03:07 PM	Uhm, I vaguely remember something about when your charisma drops, the total per day also drops down to it's usual level (obviously). Which means that if you have 5 uses of Turn Undead per day, get a charisma increase for a total of 7 attempts, then use 4 of these, charisma bonus drops, you now have one attempt left... Get it? Ugh, my brain's On/Off switch is jammed midway today. What I'm trying to say, is, that extra turning attempts per day due to temporary charisma increase are used up last. Been a while since I read up on it though, so you might want to make sure beyond my slurred words. wink [Edit] And my possible total confusion on the matter.
quill18 02-28-08, 03:18 PM	Again, to clarify -- this is the OP and I have found the answer referenced in the official FAQ. Eagle's Splendor (and other CHA boosts, no matter how temporary) will allow you to exceed your normal daily limit. EXAMPLE: Cleric with CHA 12 has 4 uses per day. Cleric has used three charges. 1 use left. Cleric gains Eagle's Splendor and can now turn up to three times. Cleric turns twice more, for a total of 5 times today. 1 use left. Cleric loses Eagle's Splendor. Since 5 is greater than or equal to 4, Cleric can no longer Turn Undead. Cleric gains Eagle's Splendor again. 5 is less than 6, so the Cleric can now turn once.
Josheva 02-28-08, 04:05 PM	Come to think of it, I believe that the idea I mentioned earlier was related to spellcasting. Temporary bonuses, such as those provided by eagle's splendor, do not give you bonus spells, while constant bonuses, such as the afore-mentioned ring, do. I am unsure as to whether or not this rule carries over to use per day abilities.
Merestil Haye 02-28-08, 09:11 PM	Come to think of it, I believe that the idea I mentioned earlier was related to spellcasting. Temporary bonuses, such as those provided by eagle's splendor, do not give you bonus spells, while constant bonuses, such as the afore-mentioned ring, do. I am unsure as to whether or not this rule carries over to use per day abilities.When an ability changes, the new modifier affects everything related to that ability except for those things that the rules or the source of the change explicitly exclude. A bard does not get bonus spells from Eagle's Splendour because the spell says you do not, and for no other reason. A Bard does get increased bonus spells from a Cloak of Charisma, because the Cloak says nothing about denying the Bard that benefit.
quill18 02-29-08, 09:28 AM	A bard does not get bonus spells from Eagle's Splendour because the spell says you do not, and for no other reason. A Bard does get increased bonus spells from a Cloak of Charisma, because the Cloak says nothing about denying the Bard that benefit. So presumably this also increases the level of spells you can cast? I.E. a Cleric with Wis 14 and a Periapt of Wisdom +6 could cast spells all the way up to level 9? Sweeeeeeet...
Merestil Haye 02-29-08, 10:06 AM	So presumably this also increases the level of spells you can cast? I.E. a Cleric with Wis 14 and a Periapt of Wisdom +6 could cast spells all the way up to level 9? Sweeeeeeet...With the epic Improved Spell Capacity and Improved Heighten Spell feats, up to 10th level. Until someone breaks or steals the periapt. Then you're stuffed. So take good care of it.