ECL 18 suggestions? [Archive] - Wizards Community

ECL 18 suggestions? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Honcheight
12-24-07, 07:48 AM My friend is running a game, ECL 18 characters, and pretty much total character creation freedom.

There will be 4 of us in the party.

One plans on making a Rogue/Invisible Blade,

the other a Fighter/Kensai,

and the last a law abiding knight-esque character that becomes a Robin Hood by night.

Now, I know some casters are needed, and considered a Clerical Lich [though they get one-hit wonders, nothign really AoE dmg].

I don't find we'll really need that high much need for casters, and the Rogue/Invisble Blade might turn towards Sorcerer multiclass or something.

I was considering the Ultimate Assassin!

Now from what I know, they're are 3 Assassin classes;

Whisperknives [for halflings, or if DM allows it, small/medium creatures, this is like the dual dagger thrower Assassin]
Chameleons [for the human/changeling/doppleganger thing, but I consider this a more social Assassin]
Assassins [for everyone else, but I like death attack :D]

Now I have two layouts for how this can go;

Rog3/ Fgt2/ Mnk1/ IB5/ WK4/ Asn3

or

Rog5/ Fgt2/ Mnk1/ IB5/ Asn5

I find the second one works well, considering Whisperknives are usualy a 10 or nothing class.

I think the idea of beign able to fight under any circumstance with the whole DEX/INT/WIS to AC makes up for the Multiclassing strain.

What do you guys think..?
metalmayhem80110
12-25-07, 01:55 PM There is only one problem with both of your builds, they use monk. Lawful assasins USUALLY don't work...

I'd concider going rogue/psi war into shadow mind (Or whatever it's called out of the complete adventurer) and Lurker.

Those builds are usually REALLY scary.
Honcheight
12-25-07, 08:23 PM I forgot to say it'd be Ex-monk. I was planning on the character being Neutral.

As an Ex-Monk i cannot progress any further, but I retain what I've learnt, which is useful I find, even for just 1 level.

Edit: your build intrigues me however, I'll look into it.
Belkar
12-26-07, 02:04 PM ECL 18???????

Um. Wizard. Straight Wizard. Yeah. You'll be able to control countries and decide the fates of the weak. Level 9 spells, man... LEVEL 9!!!! You can bend reality and the fabric of the universe with that.

[cough]

Anyway... assassins... assassins...

I say, look at the Lurk from Comlete Psionics. High level lurk builds give you massive kill-power, sneakiness, and zero alignment restrictions.
Honcheight
12-26-07, 04:38 PM I was looking for more Martial. Wizards are lame, old DMPC ruined them. Plus I hate starting casters/manifesters above 5th level.

I think I'll stick with my builds, considering so far people I've spoken [on and off forums] seem to only favor magic/psionics.

I just want to play a martial dude, with skill honed, not borrowed from the weave or whatever.
Ziggaraut
12-26-07, 04:50 PM At 18, any straight caster works well. If your making a melee I would suggest +1 or +2 LA, just for fun.
Cartigan
12-26-07, 04:55 PM Assassin?

Ranger 5/Assassin 5/Ghost Faced Killer 8

Editor's Warning: I am a complete idiot and have no idea what I am doing, ever.
AlanBruce
12-26-07, 05:03 PM Have you considered the Nathzarune Rakshasa from MMIII? I don't have the book right now with me, but they make for excellent assassins. In fact, assassin is their favored class an automatically apply for it.
LostPassWordDoesNotWork
12-26-07, 05:45 PM Spellthief 2 / Ranger 1 / Ninja 1 / Rogue 2 / Assassin 5 / Dread Commando 5 / Swordsage 1 / Dark Creature LA 1
Add another +2d6 sneak via stance, and some items for another +3d6 sneak as well. There are favored enemy boosters in the MiC, but I don't know them off the top of my head.

Total: +10d6 sneak attack, +4d6 Sudden Strike.
Move full speed while hiding and/or move silently, charge/run with half the normal hide/move penalty, reduce armor penalties by 4, evasion, improved uncanny dodge, the right to claim you steal items and memories (and buff spells), handy save boosting maneuvers from the diamond mind school, low level spell casting to fill some gaps, hide in plain sight, +5 initiative, +8 to hide, +6 to move, favored enemy (humans?) and +11 BAB (only 2 behind a pure rogue).

It is not the best possible build available, but its something that does not cast 5th level spells.

Dark Shadow-walker Whisper Gnome
Rogue 10 / Assassin 1 / Dread Commando 5 / Dark Creature LA 1 / Shadow-Walker LA 1
Highlights: HiPS, +4 dex, +20 hide, +10 move, immune to cold, a few of spell-like abilities (darkness, DDoor, and others), +6d6 sneak, +3d6 sudden, the whole -4 to ACP & no panalty to hide/move while walking about, +5 initiative, +12 BAB, evasion, and improved uncanny dodge.

Something real close to this build is what I used to break +125 to hide, 'immune' to blindsight and stuff like it. It also had over +30 to initiative and 13d6+ sneak/sudden. ...And it used a Splitting shortbow. :D

Fighting her could be turned into a simple boolean.
( HasArcaneSight || HasAtWillDaylight || ImmuneToCritsButNotBecauseItIsUndead ) ? ShadowsShouldFlee = true; : PoorGuyIsDoomed = true;
Honcheight
12-26-07, 06:27 PM I'm not looking for LA race, simple Human will do :D
Honcheight
12-26-07, 06:29 PM Spellthief 2 / Ranger 1 / Ninja 1 / Rogue 2 / Assassin 5 / Dread Commando 5 / Swordsage 1 / Dark Creature LA 1
Add another +2d6 sneak via stance, and some items for another +3d6 sneak as well. There are favored enemy boosters in the MiC, but I don't know them off the top of my head.

Total: +10d6 sneak attack, +4d6 Sudden Strike.
Move full speed while hiding and/or move silently, charge/run with half the normal hide/move penalty, reduce armor penalties by 4, evasion, improved uncanny dodge, the right to claim you steal items and memories (and buff spells), handy save boosting maneuvers from the diamond mind school, low level spell casting to fill some gaps, hide in plain sight, +5 initiative, +8 to hide, +6 to move, favored enemy (humans?) and +11 BAB (only 2 behind a pure rogue).

It is not the best possible build available, but its something that does not cast 5th level spells.

Dark Shadow-walker Whisper Gnome
Rogue 10 / Assassin 1 / Dread Commando 5 / Dark Creature LA 1 / Shadow-Walker LA 1
Highlights: HiPS, +4 dex, +20 hide, +10 move, immune to cold, a few of spell-like abilities (darkness, DDoor, and others), +6d6 sneak, +3d6 sudden, the whole -4 to ACP & no panalty to hide/move while walking about, +5 initiative, +12 BAB, evasion, and improved uncanny dodge.

Something real close to this build is what I used to break +125 to hide, 'immune' to blindsight and stuff like it. It also had over +30 to initiative and 13d6+ sneak/sudden. ...And it used a Splitting shortbow. :D

Fighting her could be turned into a simple boolean.
( HasArcaneSight || HasAtWillDaylight || ImmuneToCritsButNotBecauseItIsUndead ) ? ShadowsShouldFlee = true; : PoorGuyIsDoomed = true;

I like your Warrior Assassin build, but when I said 5th, I meant character level, not spell level, just for the record.
Dravda
12-28-07, 02:21 PM I was looking for more Martial. Wizards are lame, old DMPC ruined them.

I'm sorry to hear of your loss.:weep:

Anyways, if you wanted a twist, you could go with a Slayer of Domiel (BoED): a good-aligned assassin!

-Count Dravda
metalmayhem80110
12-30-07, 08:59 PM I'm sorry to hear of your loss.:weep:

Anyways, if you wanted a twist, you could go with a Slayer of Domiel (BoED): a good-aligned assassin!

-Count Dravda

Good assasin? Those arn't very fun to play, especially when you see a temples donation bowl... Especially when it's nice and full and ready to be looted....

As mentioned earlier, the spellthief is interesting to try just for fun.

My favorite assasin type build is the greatsword wielding psionic rogue, if you do it right you can get something like a 5-8d6 sneak attack. Than you use your magically enchanted vorpal and flaming weapon, so we're up to 11d6. Than you use greater psionic weapon for +4d6 on that attack, so now we're up to 15d6. All of this ISN'T including any powers from the psychic warrior. You could probably clear 18d6 easily with the proper selection of powers.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Honcheight 12-24-07, 07:48 AM	My friend is running a game, ECL 18 characters, and pretty much total character creation freedom. There will be 4 of us in the party. One plans on making a Rogue/Invisible Blade, the other a Fighter/Kensai, and the last a law abiding knight-esque character that becomes a Robin Hood by night. Now, I know some casters are needed, and considered a Clerical Lich [though they get one-hit wonders, nothign really AoE dmg]. I don't find we'll really need that high much need for casters, and the Rogue/Invisble Blade might turn towards Sorcerer multiclass or something. I was considering the Ultimate Assassin! Now from what I know, they're are 3 Assassin classes; Whisperknives [for halflings, or if DM allows it, small/medium creatures, this is like the dual dagger thrower Assassin] Chameleons [for the human/changeling/doppleganger thing, but I consider this a more social Assassin] Assassins [for everyone else, but I like death attack :D] Now I have two layouts for how this can go; Rog3/ Fgt2/ Mnk1/ IB5/ WK4/ Asn3 or Rog5/ Fgt2/ Mnk1/ IB5/ Asn5 I find the second one works well, considering Whisperknives are usualy a 10 or nothing class. I think the idea of beign able to fight under any circumstance with the whole DEX/INT/WIS to AC makes up for the Multiclassing strain. What do you guys think..?
metalmayhem80110 12-25-07, 01:55 PM	There is only one problem with both of your builds, they use monk. Lawful assasins USUALLY don't work... I'd concider going rogue/psi war into shadow mind (Or whatever it's called out of the complete adventurer) and Lurker. Those builds are usually REALLY scary.
Honcheight 12-25-07, 08:23 PM	I forgot to say it'd be Ex-monk. I was planning on the character being Neutral. As an Ex-Monk i cannot progress any further, but I retain what I've learnt, which is useful I find, even for just 1 level. Edit: your build intrigues me however, I'll look into it.
Belkar 12-26-07, 02:04 PM	ECL 18??????? Um. Wizard. Straight Wizard. Yeah. You'll be able to control countries and decide the fates of the weak. Level 9 spells, man... LEVEL 9!!!! You can bend reality and the fabric of the universe with that. [cough] Anyway... assassins... assassins... I say, look at the Lurk from Comlete Psionics. High level lurk builds give you massive kill-power, sneakiness, and zero alignment restrictions.
Honcheight 12-26-07, 04:38 PM	I was looking for more Martial. Wizards are lame, old DMPC ruined them. Plus I hate starting casters/manifesters above 5th level. I think I'll stick with my builds, considering so far people I've spoken [on and off forums] seem to only favor magic/psionics. I just want to play a martial dude, with skill honed, not borrowed from the weave or whatever.
Ziggaraut 12-26-07, 04:50 PM	At 18, any straight caster works well. If your making a melee I would suggest +1 or +2 LA, just for fun.
Cartigan 12-26-07, 04:55 PM	Assassin? Ranger 5/Assassin 5/Ghost Faced Killer 8 Editor's Warning: I am a complete idiot and have no idea what I am doing, ever.
AlanBruce 12-26-07, 05:03 PM	Have you considered the Nathzarune Rakshasa from MMIII? I don't have the book right now with me, but they make for excellent assassins. In fact, assassin is their favored class an automatically apply for it.
LostPassWordDoesNotWork 12-26-07, 05:45 PM	Spellthief 2 / Ranger 1 / Ninja 1 / Rogue 2 / Assassin 5 / Dread Commando 5 / Swordsage 1 / Dark Creature LA 1 Add another +2d6 sneak via stance, and some items for another +3d6 sneak as well. There are favored enemy boosters in the MiC, but I don't know them off the top of my head. Total: +10d6 sneak attack, +4d6 Sudden Strike. Move full speed while hiding and/or move silently, charge/run with half the normal hide/move penalty, reduce armor penalties by 4, evasion, improved uncanny dodge, the right to claim you steal items and memories (and buff spells), handy save boosting maneuvers from the diamond mind school, low level spell casting to fill some gaps, hide in plain sight, +5 initiative, +8 to hide, +6 to move, favored enemy (humans?) and +11 BAB (only 2 behind a pure rogue). It is not the best possible build available, but its something that does not cast 5th level spells. Dark Shadow-walker Whisper Gnome Rogue 10 / Assassin 1 / Dread Commando 5 / Dark Creature LA 1 / Shadow-Walker LA 1 Highlights: HiPS, +4 dex, +20 hide, +10 move, immune to cold, a few of spell-like abilities (darkness, DDoor, and others), +6d6 sneak, +3d6 sudden, the whole -4 to ACP & no panalty to hide/move while walking about, +5 initiative, +12 BAB, evasion, and improved uncanny dodge. Something real close to this build is what I used to break +125 to hide, 'immune' to blindsight and stuff like it. It also had over +30 to initiative and 13d6+ sneak/sudden. ...And it used a Splitting shortbow. :D Fighting her could be turned into a simple boolean. ( HasArcaneSight \|\| HasAtWillDaylight \|\| ImmuneToCritsButNotBecauseItIsUndead ) ? ShadowsShouldFlee = true; : PoorGuyIsDoomed = true;
Honcheight 12-26-07, 06:27 PM	I'm not looking for LA race, simple Human will do :D
Honcheight 12-26-07, 06:29 PM	Spellthief 2 / Ranger 1 / Ninja 1 / Rogue 2 / Assassin 5 / Dread Commando 5 / Swordsage 1 / Dark Creature LA 1 Add another +2d6 sneak via stance, and some items for another +3d6 sneak as well. There are favored enemy boosters in the MiC, but I don't know them off the top of my head. Total: +10d6 sneak attack, +4d6 Sudden Strike. Move full speed while hiding and/or move silently, charge/run with half the normal hide/move penalty, reduce armor penalties by 4, evasion, improved uncanny dodge, the right to claim you steal items and memories (and buff spells), handy save boosting maneuvers from the diamond mind school, low level spell casting to fill some gaps, hide in plain sight, +5 initiative, +8 to hide, +6 to move, favored enemy (humans?) and +11 BAB (only 2 behind a pure rogue). It is not the best possible build available, but its something that does not cast 5th level spells. Dark Shadow-walker Whisper Gnome Rogue 10 / Assassin 1 / Dread Commando 5 / Dark Creature LA 1 / Shadow-Walker LA 1 Highlights: HiPS, +4 dex, +20 hide, +10 move, immune to cold, a few of spell-like abilities (darkness, DDoor, and others), +6d6 sneak, +3d6 sudden, the whole -4 to ACP & no panalty to hide/move while walking about, +5 initiative, +12 BAB, evasion, and improved uncanny dodge. Something real close to this build is what I used to break +125 to hide, 'immune' to blindsight and stuff like it. It also had over +30 to initiative and 13d6+ sneak/sudden. ...And it used a Splitting shortbow. :D Fighting her could be turned into a simple boolean. ( HasArcaneSight \|\| HasAtWillDaylight \|\| ImmuneToCritsButNotBecauseItIsUndead ) ? ShadowsShouldFlee = true; : PoorGuyIsDoomed = true; I like your Warrior Assassin build, but when I said 5th, I meant character level, not spell level, just for the record.
Dravda 12-28-07, 02:21 PM	I was looking for more Martial. Wizards are lame, old DMPC ruined them. I'm sorry to hear of your loss.:weep: Anyways, if you wanted a twist, you could go with a Slayer of Domiel (BoED): a good-aligned assassin! -Count Dravda
metalmayhem80110 12-30-07, 08:59 PM	I'm sorry to hear of your loss.:weep: Anyways, if you wanted a twist, you could go with a Slayer of Domiel (BoED): a good-aligned assassin! -Count Dravda Good assasin? Those arn't very fun to play, especially when you see a temples donation bowl... Especially when it's nice and full and ready to be looted.... As mentioned earlier, the spellthief is interesting to try just for fun. My favorite assasin type build is the greatsword wielding psionic rogue, if you do it right you can get something like a 5-8d6 sneak attack. Than you use your magically enchanted vorpal and flaming weapon, so we're up to 11d6. Than you use greater psionic weapon for +4d6 on that attack, so now we're up to 15d6. All of this ISN'T including any powers from the psychic warrior. You could probably clear 18d6 easily with the proper selection of powers.