Eldritch Glaive / Haste [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eldritch Glaive / Haste [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gfreese
05-05-07, 11:11 AM Hi all,

I am playing a Warlock with the Eldritch Glaive invocation.

I wanted to buy Boots of Speed (Haste effect) to get an extra attack at my full BAB.

My DM said it would NOT work because the EG invocation is a "full round action" instead of me taking an "full attack action."

Is my DM right? Is he misinterpreting the text? Is he just being a donkey?

Help please.
Vicerious
05-05-07, 11:43 AM The general consensus is that yes, your DM's right. As a full-round action, Eldritch Glaive allows the warlock to make a number of touch attacks as allowed by his base attack bonus and to threaten the squares around him for a round. Extra attacks from other sources, such as haste, would not be applicable.

It's a similar concept to say, scorching ray. As a standard action, a mage can cast scorching ray to fire a number of rays (ranged touch attacks) based on his caster level. Extra attacks from things like haste would not grant an extra touch attack, and thus another ray.

It's easier to think of Eldritch Glaive as a self-contained spell in this regard. As a full-round action, you get to make a number of touch attacks equal to the number you'd be able to make in a full attack as indicated by your base attack bonus, but it is not in itself a full attack action, nor are you actually using a full attack action.
Toloran
05-05-07, 11:45 AM The general consensus is that yes, your DM's right. As a full-round action, Eldritch Glaive allows the warlock to make a number of touch attacks as allowed by his base attack bonus and allow the warlock to threaten the squares around him for a round. Extra attacks from other sources, such as haste, would not be applicable.

It's a similar concept to say, Scorching Ray. As a standard action, a mage can cast Scorching Ray to fire a number of rays (ranged touch attacks) based on his caster level. Extra attacks from things like haste would not grant an extra touch attack, and thus another ray.

It's easier to think of Eldritch Glaive as a self-contained spell in this regard.

This is correct. All Eldritch Glaive cares about is what your BAB is, not what your full attack pattern is.
Tempest Stormwind
05-05-07, 11:57 AM The key to figuring this out for yourself is in the wording:If your base attack bonus is +6 or higher, you can (as part of the full-round action) make as many attacks with your eldritch glaive as your base attack bonus allows.Note how it doesn't say "you may make a full attack" or anything. Also, strictly speaking, you can't use the glaive for anything other than damaging touch attacks.

You use the invocation, which is a full round action that creates the glaive and lets you make touch attacks once (twice with +6, three times with +11, four times with +16), and the glaive persists when it isn't your turn for AoO purposes. This doesn't involve a full attack anywhere, so it can't be used with things like Haste.

Similar wording, by the way, exists with certain Tome of Battle maneuvers that grant multiple attacks but aren't full attacks -- Wolf Fang Strike, Steel Wind/Mithral Tornado/Adamantine Hurricane, Avalanche of Blades, and so on. Those will not gain additional attacks from Haste as no full attacks are being made. Other maneuvers that *do* explicitly say they grant full attacks (Flashing Sun, Time Stands Still) would function with Haste effects.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gfreese 05-05-07, 11:11 AM	Hi all, I am playing a Warlock with the Eldritch Glaive invocation. I wanted to buy Boots of Speed (Haste effect) to get an extra attack at my full BAB. My DM said it would NOT work because the EG invocation is a "full round action" instead of me taking an "full attack action." Is my DM right? Is he misinterpreting the text? Is he just being a donkey? Help please.
Vicerious 05-05-07, 11:43 AM	The general consensus is that yes, your DM's right. As a full-round action, Eldritch Glaive allows the warlock to make a number of touch attacks as allowed by his base attack bonus and to threaten the squares around him for a round. Extra attacks from other sources, such as haste, would not be applicable. It's a similar concept to say, scorching ray. As a standard action, a mage can cast scorching ray to fire a number of rays (ranged touch attacks) based on his caster level. Extra attacks from things like haste would not grant an extra touch attack, and thus another ray. It's easier to think of Eldritch Glaive as a self-contained spell in this regard. As a full-round action, you get to make a number of touch attacks equal to the number you'd be able to make in a full attack as indicated by your base attack bonus, but it is not in itself a full attack action, nor are you actually using a full attack action.
Toloran 05-05-07, 11:45 AM	The general consensus is that yes, your DM's right. As a full-round action, Eldritch Glaive allows the warlock to make a number of touch attacks as allowed by his base attack bonus and allow the warlock to threaten the squares around him for a round. Extra attacks from other sources, such as haste, would not be applicable. It's a similar concept to say, Scorching Ray. As a standard action, a mage can cast Scorching Ray to fire a number of rays (ranged touch attacks) based on his caster level. Extra attacks from things like haste would not grant an extra touch attack, and thus another ray. It's easier to think of Eldritch Glaive as a self-contained spell in this regard. This is correct. All Eldritch Glaive cares about is what your BAB is, not what your full attack pattern is.
Tempest Stormwind 05-05-07, 11:57 AM	The key to figuring this out for yourself is in the wording:If your base attack bonus is +6 or higher, you can (as part of the full-round action) make as many attacks with your eldritch glaive as your base attack bonus allows.Note how it doesn't say "you may make a full attack" or anything. Also, strictly speaking, you can't use the glaive for anything other than damaging touch attacks. You use the invocation, which is a full round action that creates the glaive and lets you make touch attacks once (twice with +6, three times with +11, four times with +16), and the glaive persists when it isn't your turn for AoO purposes. This doesn't involve a full attack anywhere, so it can't be used with things like Haste. Similar wording, by the way, exists with certain Tome of Battle maneuvers that grant multiple attacks but aren't full attacks -- Wolf Fang Strike, Steel Wind/Mithral Tornado/Adamantine Hurricane, Avalanche of Blades, and so on. Those will not gain additional attacks from Haste as no full attacks are being made. Other maneuvers that do explicitly say they grant full attacks (Flashing Sun, Time Stands Still) would function with Haste effects.