Elf or Half-Elf wizard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Elf or Half-Elf wizard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Faeirlyte
09-18-06, 10:49 AM If you wanted to create a wizard and you wanted the race to be either elf or half-elf, which would you choose and why? Trying to even out a campaign which includes:

Dwarf fighter
Human cleric
Human ranger

Thanks!
CryoSilver
09-18-06, 10:58 AM I would go for the elf, simply because at lower levels, you may run out of spells, and your proficiency with bows would allow to shoot and move in the same round, and toting a longsword, even if you hope never to have to use it, may save you once or twice.
LCD2YOU
09-18-06, 10:59 AM Grey Elf Wizard for the +2 to Intelligence. There are other mods so be careful.

Starting out at 1st level with a 20 Intelligence is great. First take Spell Focus in Something to give a +1 to the DCs. Your Int bonus gives you what, 3(?) 1st level spells AT 1ST LEVEL!

For the rest, Grease and Magic Missle do wonders.

Your spell DCs are 15 + Spell Level and 16 + Spell level for the School you have the Focus in.

A sleep spell, if you have the Enchanment school Focus has a Will DC of 17. That will drop an Ogre (who is affected by Sleep BTW).

My :twocents:
trapspringer
09-18-06, 02:10 PM ...Unless your DM is running a campaign with a focus on NPC interaction, elf is a better bet.

If you are going to be diplomatic about things, there are enough feats that as a half elf you can tear up on some social checks.

Otherwise, grey elf is an excellent choice for a wizard because of the above reasons.
AZNsupermarket
09-18-06, 03:07 PM Elves for three reasons:
1) elf wizard substitution levels (races of the wild) - supposed to be very good with planar wizard substitution levels (planar handbook)

2) elven subraces with bonuses to int:
a)Gray Elf: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +2 Int, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104
b)Fire Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.17
c)Sun Elf: +2 Int -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.15
3) half-elves are an underpowered race.
GnomeMade
09-18-06, 05:51 PM Elf. Better spot checks, listen checks, immunity to sleep effects, better weapons, favored class wizard anyway, and even if you took the standard elf, dex bonus is very helpful to casting that spell before the orcs charge you, helps your armor class and later you can take weapons finesse if your strength isn't that hot.

Also, roleplaying an elf wizard can be fun. You might keep checking to make sure the humans haven't dropped dead with their puny lifespans. You may treat them like children that you have to watch after so they don't run out in front of carts. (To be in right mindset, keep in mind that a dog- 'man's best friend' ages a lot faster than a human...if you get a puppy when you are a child, it's dying of old age when you are a young adult...an elf may have had a few human friends whose family lines they look after in the same manner- or they may have never left the elven lands and these are the first humans they've ever seen!)

You may comment on your reveries to them as though you were critiquing a movie. You may keep trying to tell the dwarf jokes to cheer him/her up. You may feel you have to stop and smell the flowers to get back to feeling normal (Example: I hear that some humans have to drink tea in the morning to wake up, me I have to jump in an icy creek...nothing says morning like panicked fish zipping away!)

As a half elf, you can roleplay being torn between two worlds, but you know of both worlds...it's not as fun to discover what you already know. Only go half elf if you want to be angsty... and if you want to do that, you might as well be a half aquatic elf who has never been able to go underwater and see the cities of their elven half...then they have a reason to adventure- they may have heard of powerful items or spells that would allow a person to breath under water. :D
Seraphine_Harmonium
09-18-06, 06:31 PM I think it's been made pretty clear. Elves as a race are just better than half-elves. It's an unfortunate truth, and one of the things that was almost better about 2e. Race restrictions on classes, while they were bad, at least made playing a half-elf worth it.
DarkNick
09-18-06, 07:06 PM Even though eleves are probably better mechnically, I would still prefer to be a half-elf. I don't know why, I just don't like elves that much.
Seraphine_Harmonium
09-18-06, 07:40 PM Even though eleves are probably better mechnically, I would still prefer to be a half-elf. I don't know why, I just don't like elves that much.
You have every right to prefer half-elves. We cannot, however, tell the OP what he/she (you never know online) should prefer. All we can do is point out mechanics and roleplaying opportunities, then let the OP decide for him/herself.
Jackmojo
09-18-06, 07:49 PM 2) elven subraces with bonuses to int:
a)Gray Elf: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +2 Int, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104
b)Fire Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.17
c)Sun Elf: +2 Int -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.15

Also Check on getting the Feat which allows an elf to use Int at first level for bonus HP and adds extra HP with each metamagic feat selected.

The name escapes me and the firewall here at the office blocks the main site so I can't check the list myself (if I recall correctly its in the PGtF as a regional feat for Sun Elves).

Jack

EDIT: Feat is "Mind over Body" and its in FRCS and PGtF only available at first level.
Crimson_Concerto
09-18-06, 08:45 PM Honestly, I don't think either race makes a good Wizard. Half-Elves are pretty bad in general, and the Elves' -2 CON does not combine well with a D4 HD. However, if you have to pick one, I agree that elf is probably the better option. Just watch out for your HP, mmkay?
LCD2YOU
09-18-06, 10:02 PM Here's a 28 Point Grey Elf Wizard:

Str 10 (12 -2 (4))
Dex 12 (10 +2 (2))
Con 10 (12 -2 (4))
Int 20 (18 +2 (16))
Wis 10 (10 (2))
Cha 8 (8 (0))

HP 4

Feat: Spell Focus, Enchantment

With an 8 Charisma and 10 Wisdom, they'll either come across as an aloof, always right, know it all that somehow never remembers what someone just said or a somewhat bumbling absent minded stereotype of a nerdy professor. They are not dumb in either case but they talk so fast in an almost "stream of consciouness" fashion. They think so fast that they arrive at a conclusion and have already had the entire conversation in their head. That means they will forget or not even hear what others are saying. In most cases they won't even want to return to the subject as their mind has already moved on.
igotsmeakabob!!
09-18-06, 10:57 PM Half-Elves are underpowered. Unless your DM gives them human skill-points (4 at 1st level and 1 every level thereafter) they won't be worth taking. Some people give them the human bonus feat instead. I'm not sure if thats making them overpowered.
DarkNick
09-18-06, 11:06 PM You have every right to prefer half-elves. We cannot, however, tell the OP what he/she (you never know online) should prefer. All we can do is point out mechanics and roleplaying opportunities, then let the OP decide for him/herself.

:thinks:

Didn't the original poster say "If you wanted to create a wizard and you wanted the race to be either elf or half-elf, which would you choose and why?"
I was answering their question as in I would choose half elf because I don't like elves much. Whats wrong with that? I never told them what to prefer. I told them what I prefer.
Callista
09-19-06, 12:09 AM With an 8 Charisma and 10 Wisdom, they'll either come across as an aloof, always right, know it all that somehow never remembers what someone just said or a somewhat bumbling absent minded stereotype of a nerdy professor. They are not dumb in either case but they talk so fast in an almost "stream of consciouness" fashion. They think so fast that they arrive at a conclusion and have already had the entire conversation in their head. That means they will forget or not even hear what others are saying. In most cases they won't even want to return to the subject as their mind has already moved on.... I think you just described me...
Seraphine_Harmonium
09-19-06, 02:13 AM :thinks:

Didn't the original poster say "If you wanted to create a wizard and you wanted the race to be either elf or half-elf, which would you choose and why?"
I was answering their question as in I would choose half elf because I don't like elves much. Whats wrong with that? I never told them what to prefer. I told them what I prefer.
Oh, you're right. I misread the question slightly. And I really wasn't being critical in the first place.
LCD2YOU
09-19-06, 07:12 AM ... I think you just described me...Welcome to the club.

What I could never understand was why everyone thought I was "stuck up" in middle and High schools. I was blissfully unaware that I was putting people off as I thought everyone thought as fast as I.

Question, when you get angry are you able to communicate or are you like me and sputter and really no be able to even think clearly?
X-Codes
09-19-06, 07:40 AM Here's a 28 Point Grey Elf Wizard:

Str 10 (12 -2 (4))
Dex 12 (10 +2 (2))
Con 10 (12 -2 (4))
Int 20 (18 +2 (16))
Wis 10 (10 (2))
Cha 8 (8 (0))

HP 4

Feat: Spell Focus, Enchantment
Good luck surviving with a +1 initiative, 11 AC and 4 HP. A mildly lucky attack from a goblin's Javelin disables you, and two slightly less lucky attacks of the same nature drop you.

28 point buy Gray Elf:
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 8

Because that extra 1 spell can't do everything points in other stats can do, and a Will saving throw DC of 15 is still going to be failed 75% of the time, thanks to the -1 modifier most first-level warriors have. Just aim that Color Spray spell carefully and you can practically skip the encounter in favor of free XP. Don't forget the Toad familiar, either. You don't even have to waste your first level feat on something silly like Spell Focus.
LCD2YOU
09-19-06, 10:09 AM Good luck surviving with a +1 initiative, 11 AC and 4 HP. A mildly lucky attack from a goblin's Javelin disables you, and two slightly less lucky attacks of the same nature drop you.

28 point buy Gray Elf:
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 8

Because that extra 1 spell can't do everything points in other stats can do, and a Will saving throw DC of 15 is still going to be failed 75% of the time, thanks to the -1 modifier most first-level warriors have. Just aim that Color Spray spell carefully and you can practically skip the encounter in favor of free XP. Don't forget the Toad familiar, either. You don't even have to waste your first level feat on something silly like Spell Focus.Hmm, but that's what fighters are for.

Still to improve the odds the Wizard gets their spell off first, this would be the change I'd make:

Str 10
Dex 12
Con 10
Int 20
Wis 10
Cha 8

HP 4

Feat: Improved Initiative

Initiative Modifier: +5

This means that the Wizard has a better than 75% to go first every time. Even if he doesn't, there is only a 50/50 chance at being hit at close range for 1d6 points. The odds are over 90% that they'll be able to get a Sleep spell off against the Goblin. Of course if there are multiple Goblins throwing javelins at the Mage, the chances go down, but not less than 75% on getting a spell off.

Even without the Spell Focus, their Sleep spell has a Will DC of 16. At -1 to Will Saves, the Goblin need a 17 or greater, or 20% chance of staying up. In other words, the Goblin has less than a 10% chance of surviving the encounter. Two Goblins don't fair much better.

But any Wizard who doesn't have fighter support learns quickly they are a cannon protected by an egg shell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Faeirlyte 09-18-06, 10:49 AM	If you wanted to create a wizard and you wanted the race to be either elf or half-elf, which would you choose and why? Trying to even out a campaign which includes: Dwarf fighter Human cleric Human ranger Thanks!
CryoSilver 09-18-06, 10:58 AM	I would go for the elf, simply because at lower levels, you may run out of spells, and your proficiency with bows would allow to shoot and move in the same round, and toting a longsword, even if you hope never to have to use it, may save you once or twice.
LCD2YOU 09-18-06, 10:59 AM	Grey Elf Wizard for the +2 to Intelligence. There are other mods so be careful. Starting out at 1st level with a 20 Intelligence is great. First take Spell Focus in Something to give a +1 to the DCs. Your Int bonus gives you what, 3(?) 1st level spells AT 1ST LEVEL! For the rest, Grease and Magic Missle do wonders. Your spell DCs are 15 + Spell Level and 16 + Spell level for the School you have the Focus in. A sleep spell, if you have the Enchanment school Focus has a Will DC of 17. That will drop an Ogre (who is affected by Sleep BTW). My :twocents:
trapspringer 09-18-06, 02:10 PM	...Unless your DM is running a campaign with a focus on NPC interaction, elf is a better bet. If you are going to be diplomatic about things, there are enough feats that as a half elf you can tear up on some social checks. Otherwise, grey elf is an excellent choice for a wizard because of the above reasons.
AZNsupermarket 09-18-06, 03:07 PM	Elves for three reasons: 1) elf wizard substitution levels (races of the wild) - supposed to be very good with planar wizard substitution levels (planar handbook) 2) elven subraces with bonuses to int: a)Gray Elf: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +2 Int, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104 b)Fire Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.17 c)Sun Elf: +2 Int -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.15 3) half-elves are an underpowered race.
GnomeMade 09-18-06, 05:51 PM	Elf. Better spot checks, listen checks, immunity to sleep effects, better weapons, favored class wizard anyway, and even if you took the standard elf, dex bonus is very helpful to casting that spell before the orcs charge you, helps your armor class and later you can take weapons finesse if your strength isn't that hot. Also, roleplaying an elf wizard can be fun. You might keep checking to make sure the humans haven't dropped dead with their puny lifespans. You may treat them like children that you have to watch after so they don't run out in front of carts. (To be in right mindset, keep in mind that a dog- 'man's best friend' ages a lot faster than a human...if you get a puppy when you are a child, it's dying of old age when you are a young adult...an elf may have had a few human friends whose family lines they look after in the same manner- or they may have never left the elven lands and these are the first humans they've ever seen!) You may comment on your reveries to them as though you were critiquing a movie. You may keep trying to tell the dwarf jokes to cheer him/her up. You may feel you have to stop and smell the flowers to get back to feeling normal (Example: I hear that some humans have to drink tea in the morning to wake up, me I have to jump in an icy creek...nothing says morning like panicked fish zipping away!) As a half elf, you can roleplay being torn between two worlds, but you know of both worlds...it's not as fun to discover what you already know. Only go half elf if you want to be angsty... and if you want to do that, you might as well be a half aquatic elf who has never been able to go underwater and see the cities of their elven half...then they have a reason to adventure- they may have heard of powerful items or spells that would allow a person to breath under water. :D
Seraphine_Harmonium 09-18-06, 06:31 PM	I think it's been made pretty clear. Elves as a race are just better than half-elves. It's an unfortunate truth, and one of the things that was almost better about 2e. Race restrictions on classes, while they were bad, at least made playing a half-elf worth it.
DarkNick 09-18-06, 07:06 PM	Even though eleves are probably better mechnically, I would still prefer to be a half-elf. I don't know why, I just don't like elves that much.
Seraphine_Harmonium 09-18-06, 07:40 PM	Even though eleves are probably better mechnically, I would still prefer to be a half-elf. I don't know why, I just don't like elves that much. You have every right to prefer half-elves. We cannot, however, tell the OP what he/she (you never know online) should prefer. All we can do is point out mechanics and roleplaying opportunities, then let the OP decide for him/herself.
Jackmojo 09-18-06, 07:49 PM	2) elven subraces with bonuses to int: a)Gray Elf: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +2 Int, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104 b)Fire Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.17 c)Sun Elf: +2 Int -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.15 Also Check on getting the Feat which allows an elf to use Int at first level for bonus HP and adds extra HP with each metamagic feat selected. The name escapes me and the firewall here at the office blocks the main site so I can't check the list myself (if I recall correctly its in the PGtF as a regional feat for Sun Elves). Jack EDIT: Feat is "Mind over Body" and its in FRCS and PGtF only available at first level.
Crimson_Concerto 09-18-06, 08:45 PM	Honestly, I don't think either race makes a good Wizard. Half-Elves are pretty bad in general, and the Elves' -2 CON does not combine well with a D4 HD. However, if you have to pick one, I agree that elf is probably the better option. Just watch out for your HP, mmkay?
LCD2YOU 09-18-06, 10:02 PM	Here's a 28 Point Grey Elf Wizard: Str 10 (12 -2 (4)) Dex 12 (10 +2 (2)) Con 10 (12 -2 (4)) Int 20 (18 +2 (16)) Wis 10 (10 (2)) Cha 8 (8 (0)) HP 4 Feat: Spell Focus, Enchantment With an 8 Charisma and 10 Wisdom, they'll either come across as an aloof, always right, know it all that somehow never remembers what someone just said or a somewhat bumbling absent minded stereotype of a nerdy professor. They are not dumb in either case but they talk so fast in an almost "stream of consciouness" fashion. They think so fast that they arrive at a conclusion and have already had the entire conversation in their head. That means they will forget or not even hear what others are saying. In most cases they won't even want to return to the subject as their mind has already moved on.
igotsmeakabob!! 09-18-06, 10:57 PM	Half-Elves are underpowered. Unless your DM gives them human skill-points (4 at 1st level and 1 every level thereafter) they won't be worth taking. Some people give them the human bonus feat instead. I'm not sure if thats making them overpowered.
DarkNick 09-18-06, 11:06 PM	You have every right to prefer half-elves. We cannot, however, tell the OP what he/she (you never know online) should prefer. All we can do is point out mechanics and roleplaying opportunities, then let the OP decide for him/herself. :thinks: Didn't the original poster say "If you wanted to create a wizard and you wanted the race to be either elf or half-elf, which would you choose and why?" I was answering their question as in I would choose half elf because I don't like elves much. Whats wrong with that? I never told them what to prefer. I told them what I prefer.
Callista 09-19-06, 12:09 AM	With an 8 Charisma and 10 Wisdom, they'll either come across as an aloof, always right, know it all that somehow never remembers what someone just said or a somewhat bumbling absent minded stereotype of a nerdy professor. They are not dumb in either case but they talk so fast in an almost "stream of consciouness" fashion. They think so fast that they arrive at a conclusion and have already had the entire conversation in their head. That means they will forget or not even hear what others are saying. In most cases they won't even want to return to the subject as their mind has already moved on.... I think you just described me...
Seraphine_Harmonium 09-19-06, 02:13 AM	:thinks: Didn't the original poster say "If you wanted to create a wizard and you wanted the race to be either elf or half-elf, which would you choose and why?" I was answering their question as in I would choose half elf because I don't like elves much. Whats wrong with that? I never told them what to prefer. I told them what I prefer. Oh, you're right. I misread the question slightly. And I really wasn't being critical in the first place.
LCD2YOU 09-19-06, 07:12 AM	... I think you just described me...Welcome to the club. What I could never understand was why everyone thought I was "stuck up" in middle and High schools. I was blissfully unaware that I was putting people off as I thought everyone thought as fast as I. Question, when you get angry are you able to communicate or are you like me and sputter and really no be able to even think clearly?
X-Codes 09-19-06, 07:40 AM	Here's a 28 Point Grey Elf Wizard: Str 10 (12 -2 (4)) Dex 12 (10 +2 (2)) Con 10 (12 -2 (4)) Int 20 (18 +2 (16)) Wis 10 (10 (2)) Cha 8 (8 (0)) HP 4 Feat: Spell Focus, Enchantment Good luck surviving with a +1 initiative, 11 AC and 4 HP. A mildly lucky attack from a goblin's Javelin disables you, and two slightly less lucky attacks of the same nature drop you. 28 point buy Gray Elf: Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 8 Because that extra 1 spell can't do everything points in other stats can do, and a Will saving throw DC of 15 is still going to be failed 75% of the time, thanks to the -1 modifier most first-level warriors have. Just aim that Color Spray spell carefully and you can practically skip the encounter in favor of free XP. Don't forget the Toad familiar, either. You don't even have to waste your first level feat on something silly like Spell Focus.
LCD2YOU 09-19-06, 10:09 AM	Good luck surviving with a +1 initiative, 11 AC and 4 HP. A mildly lucky attack from a goblin's Javelin disables you, and two slightly less lucky attacks of the same nature drop you. 28 point buy Gray Elf: Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 8 Because that extra 1 spell can't do everything points in other stats can do, and a Will saving throw DC of 15 is still going to be failed 75% of the time, thanks to the -1 modifier most first-level warriors have. Just aim that Color Spray spell carefully and you can practically skip the encounter in favor of free XP. Don't forget the Toad familiar, either. You don't even have to waste your first level feat on something silly like Spell Focus.Hmm, but that's what fighters are for. Still to improve the odds the Wizard gets their spell off first, this would be the change I'd make: Str 10 Dex 12 Con 10 Int 20 Wis 10 Cha 8 HP 4 Feat: Improved Initiative Initiative Modifier: +5 This means that the Wizard has a better than 75% to go first every time. Even if he doesn't, there is only a 50/50 chance at being hit at close range for 1d6 points. The odds are over 90% that they'll be able to get a Sleep spell off against the Goblin. Of course if there are multiple Goblins throwing javelins at the Mage, the chances go down, but not less than 75% on getting a spell off. Even without the Spell Focus, their Sleep spell has a Will DC of 16. At -1 to Will Saves, the Goblin need a 17 or greater, or 20% chance of staying up. In other words, the Goblin has less than a 10% chance of surviving the encounter. Two Goblins don't fair much better. But any Wizard who doesn't have fighter support learns quickly they are a cannon protected by an egg shell.