Elves and Trees [Archive] - Wizards Community

Elves and Trees [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Callista
09-21-04, 12:38 AM I'm currently playing a lv. 1 elven rogue in an outdoor setting. We're in an area where there are a LOT of orcs--more than we can handle, if we stumble into the wrong area.

So I was wondering: How would you handle an attempt by an elven rogue to either escape or create a diversion by climbing up, then jumping from tree to tree, in a relatively dense forest? I'm thinking of trying this, eventually, if it's needed...
GaffeR
09-21-04, 05:46 AM I'm currently playing a lv. 1 elven rogue in an outdoor setting. We're in an area where there are a LOT of orcs--more than we can handle, if we stumble into the wrong area.

So I was wondering: How would you handle an attempt by an elven rogue to either escape or create a diversion by climbing up, then jumping from tree to tree, in a relatively dense forest? I'm thinking of trying this, eventually, if it's needed...

well my dm once had a problem with one character always climbing trees... one day a grey render came, ripped out the tree, and threw it (with the character still on it) an extremely long way:D

if i understand your meaning, you wanna know what the orcs would do? if i were a CE orc i'd light the forest on fire :devil:
that or shoot you down...or lay some sort of tree trap
Callista
09-21-04, 08:15 AM Quite likely. I'm not intending to spend all my time in trees... I just want to know if the average rogue could do it without making a fool of herself (i.e., fall out of the tree, knock herself out, and get killed by the orcs she was trying to get away from).
Joe Khol
09-21-04, 08:15 AM How would you handle an attempt by an elven rogue to either escape or create a diversion by climbing up, then jumping from tree to tree, in a relatively dense forest?

Climb, Balance and Jump skill checks, almost inevitably follwed by the rules for falling damage. :D
The Man from Uncle
09-21-04, 08:54 AM A bit of tumble and rope use (for the conveniant vines that may hang down) might also be a good idea. (I got the idea of you swinging like Tarzan).

I think basically though it will be up to your DM how plausable it is to get from tree to tree. There aren't really rules to cover it as far as i can tell. Could be interesting to think of ways it might work.
Thorak
09-21-04, 09:08 AM The biggest problem is that the Orcs can move just as fast as you can. If you're on the ground. But you're not, you're up a tree making skill checks to keep from falling. And Orcs are single-minded enough to keep hanging out below you, firing arrows at you, until you fall down or they potshot you to death.
Phrennzy
09-21-04, 09:36 AM At least you get some concealment from the branches. 20-50%
Aerunation
09-21-04, 05:44 PM Brachiation is a feat with which I am familiar, because I have a little elf who has long been a tree monkey. In order to use brachiation, which is the ability to move through the trees, from tree to tree, with the feat, at your normal land speed, you must have 6 ranks climb, 6 ranks jump, and STR 13. So I dont think you would be able to just say you are doing it without a lot of high rolls, since it would be emulating a feat you dont have, and because, after all, there is a feat for those who want to do that sort of thing.
annalivvie
09-21-04, 05:46 PM All right then, that post was from me, my significant other has been using my computer and leaving his screen name on here.
Ipsissimus
09-22-04, 03:43 PM I recommend you set up a trap, hire some orcs, and then next time he logs in under your name from your cpu...whack him.

Aerunation has it, Bractication is the best thing for jumping tree to tree and climbing it. You could use spiderclimb as well and rain arrows down from above...very elf like isnt it.

You might want to team up with another ranger (as in shooting from the trees) to create the illusion you are not just 2 ppl, Orcs aren't that smart, especially ones that chase an elf into dense woods.
annalivvie
09-22-04, 05:58 PM See what I mean... Aerunation doesnt have it, AnnaLivvie has it, Annalivvie posted it, her stinky significant just makes it look like her brilliant ideas are his by never signing out when he posts. **wink wink** Ok, I must figure out a way to protect what is mine, and restore my name...
orionm42
09-22-04, 06:46 PM What tactical advantage would you gain by going up into the trees?

Seriously. If you are in a dense forest, I would assume there is sufficient cover / concealment ON THE GROUND (tree trunks, low bushes, branches, etc.) to create a diversion using the bluff skill, get to cover, and then attempt a series of hide / move silently checks to escape.

If you climb the tree, you still need to make the bluff, hide and move silently checks once you are up there (I am assuming you are going to try to sneak away rather than have the orcs be fully aware of you while you try to escape). But you will also need to make the climb and balance checks to avoid falling while moving between the branches.

My advice...stay on the ground!! :D
Vanigo
09-22-04, 06:52 PM Hmm. You know, stringing ropes from tree to tree ahead of time might make an effective scouting tool. Just move from tree to tree rather than go on the ground, and you're much less likely to be spotted. Most people don't look up as much as they look forward. Only problem (other than having to put the ropes there ahead of time, making it pretty much only an option for home ground) is that if anyone notices the ropes, they can cut them down pretty easily.
Cymraegmorgan
09-22-04, 07:58 PM An Elf of the woodsywoods type who is also a Rogue trying to use the upper canopy of an old growth forest to escape, evade, and distract Orcs.

Climb check, then Hide, then Move Silently, with DCs of ten.

If she wants to create a diversion, then add Perform(Mimic/Throw Voice) and repeat the above sequence.

Seems like your character could manuever with ease the upper branches.
orionm42
09-22-04, 08:42 PM I still think she puts herself at a tactical disadvantage by taking to the trees because of the following:

1) She needs to make more checks to move the same distance. If she is in the trees, she must make balance and jump checks to avoid falling. Additionally, if she falls, she will need to make a tumble check to avoid damage. On the ground, these checks are unnecessary. More checks = more chances to fail, fall and take damage.
2) If she falls and is noticed, she could be at a tactical disadvantage because she will likely land prone (again, if she doesn’t make a successful check). If a battle begins, she will need to burn a move to stand up.
3) If she is noticed and a battle ensues, she is a sitting duck and will get clobbered with ranged attacks. Additionally, if her party joins the battle while she is still in the trees, she won’t be able to flank and will lose chances at sneak attack damage.
4) If she is noticed and battle ensures, she is limited to making ranged attacks. While she is in the trees, the DM may rule she takes a penalty on her ranged attacks because she needs to balance while she shoots. The DM may also rule she takes penalties to balance checks as she tries to move between the branches with both hands full (for example, holding her loaded bow).

It may come down to how the DM adjudicates cover / concealment. I would rule the tree trunks and ground cover provide sufficient cover to attempt hide checks. Similarly, the canopy provides shade and areas of reduced light (concealment), which would allow her to move between cover without penalty. In other words, I would rule her chances of hiding are no greater in the branches than they are on the ground.

IMHO, I still think she is better off on the ground. But again, it may come down to how the DM rules.
SnowbearK
09-22-04, 11:44 PM I used to play a halfling rogue/lasher who dual-wielded whips with the Extending property. It wasn't until I asked my DM for a red and blue costume made of spidersilk that he smacked me with his DMG.
SoulLord
09-23-04, 12:32 PM well it depends.

If the orcs have already spotted you climbing trees is a bad strategy as you lose your dex bonus to climb.

if they have not spotted you yet you could try it as a means to hide and keep an eye on them as they usually wont be looking up.

what you dont want to do is to start jumping from tree to tree as your speed wont match that of the orcs.

And you can fail and fall for a sure dead.

SoulLord

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Callista 09-21-04, 12:38 AM	I'm currently playing a lv. 1 elven rogue in an outdoor setting. We're in an area where there are a LOT of orcs--more than we can handle, if we stumble into the wrong area. So I was wondering: How would you handle an attempt by an elven rogue to either escape or create a diversion by climbing up, then jumping from tree to tree, in a relatively dense forest? I'm thinking of trying this, eventually, if it's needed...
GaffeR 09-21-04, 05:46 AM	I'm currently playing a lv. 1 elven rogue in an outdoor setting. We're in an area where there are a LOT of orcs--more than we can handle, if we stumble into the wrong area. So I was wondering: How would you handle an attempt by an elven rogue to either escape or create a diversion by climbing up, then jumping from tree to tree, in a relatively dense forest? I'm thinking of trying this, eventually, if it's needed... well my dm once had a problem with one character always climbing trees... one day a grey render came, ripped out the tree, and threw it (with the character still on it) an extremely long way:D if i understand your meaning, you wanna know what the orcs would do? if i were a CE orc i'd light the forest on fire :devil: that or shoot you down...or lay some sort of tree trap
Callista 09-21-04, 08:15 AM	Quite likely. I'm not intending to spend all my time in trees... I just want to know if the average rogue could do it without making a fool of herself (i.e., fall out of the tree, knock herself out, and get killed by the orcs she was trying to get away from).
Joe Khol 09-21-04, 08:15 AM	How would you handle an attempt by an elven rogue to either escape or create a diversion by climbing up, then jumping from tree to tree, in a relatively dense forest? Climb, Balance and Jump skill checks, almost inevitably follwed by the rules for falling damage. :D
The Man from Uncle 09-21-04, 08:54 AM	A bit of tumble and rope use (for the conveniant vines that may hang down) might also be a good idea. (I got the idea of you swinging like Tarzan). I think basically though it will be up to your DM how plausable it is to get from tree to tree. There aren't really rules to cover it as far as i can tell. Could be interesting to think of ways it might work.
Thorak 09-21-04, 09:08 AM	The biggest problem is that the Orcs can move just as fast as you can. If you're on the ground. But you're not, you're up a tree making skill checks to keep from falling. And Orcs are single-minded enough to keep hanging out below you, firing arrows at you, until you fall down or they potshot you to death.
Phrennzy 09-21-04, 09:36 AM	At least you get some concealment from the branches. 20-50%
Aerunation 09-21-04, 05:44 PM	Brachiation is a feat with which I am familiar, because I have a little elf who has long been a tree monkey. In order to use brachiation, which is the ability to move through the trees, from tree to tree, with the feat, at your normal land speed, you must have 6 ranks climb, 6 ranks jump, and STR 13. So I dont think you would be able to just say you are doing it without a lot of high rolls, since it would be emulating a feat you dont have, and because, after all, there is a feat for those who want to do that sort of thing.
annalivvie 09-21-04, 05:46 PM	All right then, that post was from me, my significant other has been using my computer and leaving his screen name on here.
Ipsissimus 09-22-04, 03:43 PM	I recommend you set up a trap, hire some orcs, and then next time he logs in under your name from your cpu...whack him. Aerunation has it, Bractication is the best thing for jumping tree to tree and climbing it. You could use spiderclimb as well and rain arrows down from above...very elf like isnt it. You might want to team up with another ranger (as in shooting from the trees) to create the illusion you are not just 2 ppl, Orcs aren't that smart, especially ones that chase an elf into dense woods.
annalivvie 09-22-04, 05:58 PM	See what I mean... Aerunation doesnt have it, AnnaLivvie has it, Annalivvie posted it, her stinky significant just makes it look like her brilliant ideas are his by never signing out when he posts. wink wink Ok, I must figure out a way to protect what is mine, and restore my name...
orionm42 09-22-04, 06:46 PM	What tactical advantage would you gain by going up into the trees? Seriously. If you are in a dense forest, I would assume there is sufficient cover / concealment ON THE GROUND (tree trunks, low bushes, branches, etc.) to create a diversion using the bluff skill, get to cover, and then attempt a series of hide / move silently checks to escape. If you climb the tree, you still need to make the bluff, hide and move silently checks once you are up there (I am assuming you are going to try to sneak away rather than have the orcs be fully aware of you while you try to escape). But you will also need to make the climb and balance checks to avoid falling while moving between the branches. My advice...stay on the ground!! :D
Vanigo 09-22-04, 06:52 PM	Hmm. You know, stringing ropes from tree to tree ahead of time might make an effective scouting tool. Just move from tree to tree rather than go on the ground, and you're much less likely to be spotted. Most people don't look up as much as they look forward. Only problem (other than having to put the ropes there ahead of time, making it pretty much only an option for home ground) is that if anyone notices the ropes, they can cut them down pretty easily.
Cymraegmorgan 09-22-04, 07:58 PM	An Elf of the woodsywoods type who is also a Rogue trying to use the upper canopy of an old growth forest to escape, evade, and distract Orcs. Climb check, then Hide, then Move Silently, with DCs of ten. If she wants to create a diversion, then add Perform(Mimic/Throw Voice) and repeat the above sequence. Seems like your character could manuever with ease the upper branches.
orionm42 09-22-04, 08:42 PM	I still think she puts herself at a tactical disadvantage by taking to the trees because of the following: 1) She needs to make more checks to move the same distance. If she is in the trees, she must make balance and jump checks to avoid falling. Additionally, if she falls, she will need to make a tumble check to avoid damage. On the ground, these checks are unnecessary. More checks = more chances to fail, fall and take damage. 2) If she falls and is noticed, she could be at a tactical disadvantage because she will likely land prone (again, if she doesn’t make a successful check). If a battle begins, she will need to burn a move to stand up. 3) If she is noticed and a battle ensues, she is a sitting duck and will get clobbered with ranged attacks. Additionally, if her party joins the battle while she is still in the trees, she won’t be able to flank and will lose chances at sneak attack damage. 4) If she is noticed and battle ensures, she is limited to making ranged attacks. While she is in the trees, the DM may rule she takes a penalty on her ranged attacks because she needs to balance while she shoots. The DM may also rule she takes penalties to balance checks as she tries to move between the branches with both hands full (for example, holding her loaded bow). It may come down to how the DM adjudicates cover / concealment. I would rule the tree trunks and ground cover provide sufficient cover to attempt hide checks. Similarly, the canopy provides shade and areas of reduced light (concealment), which would allow her to move between cover without penalty. In other words, I would rule her chances of hiding are no greater in the branches than they are on the ground. IMHO, I still think she is better off on the ground. But again, it may come down to how the DM rules.
SnowbearK 09-22-04, 11:44 PM	I used to play a halfling rogue/lasher who dual-wielded whips with the Extending property. It wasn't until I asked my DM for a red and blue costume made of spidersilk that he smacked me with his DMG.
SoulLord 09-23-04, 12:32 PM	well it depends. If the orcs have already spotted you climbing trees is a bad strategy as you lose your dex bonus to climb. if they have not spotted you yet you could try it as a means to hide and keep an eye on them as they usually wont be looking up. what you dont want to do is to start jumping from tree to tree as your speed wont match that of the orcs. And you can fail and fall for a sure dead. SoulLord