Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Oriktheflint 12-17-07, 11:02 PM	My DM has given my D&D group warning that he will be remaking an adventure he made called the tower of terror where players are more afraid for there sanity than there lives. The base for the dungeon is a labyrinth of permanently invisible walls covered by mirrors protected my walls of force covered by illusions to make them look like walls. And all this is made by a god so it cant be permanently despelled. he also mentioned he would be putting one monster in the dungeon a ancient colossal red dragon. The other players in the group have to bring back characters they ran it with last time and all ended up with some form of mental problem and some will have to make a roll to see if the go berserk when they enter if they fail they will start attacking anything in sight. Also so I need to make a lvl 27 character that can hopefully survive. Anyone have any tips or suggestions on what I could do? because my only character before now is a lvl 4 monk and a lvl 1 cleric.
Worshiper_of_Moradin 12-17-07, 11:46 PM	Wait a minute. The walls are permanently invisible, with mirrors covering them which are protected by walls of force which are made to like like normal walls......what's the point in that?
happy_fuzzy 12-17-07, 11:51 PM	I would say go to the CharOp boards and have them help you out but at level 27 their builds would probbly blow your mind, unless of course you have xperiance beyond those other two characters, if not I would stick with a straight druid, wizard, or cleric if its core, if its beyond core inform us what books you have please
Oriktheflint 12-18-07, 12:30 AM	Wait a minute. The walls are permanently invisible, with mirrors covering them which are protected by walls of force which are made to like like normal walls......what's the point in that? The point is that there illusions everywhere some are like one-way mirrors one side nothing, other side wall and if someone dispels the illusion we have a hall of mirrors which make navigation harder and so we have to cast a second dispel magic to get rid of the walls of force and then when we smash the mirrors we cant see where the walls are. Originally there were no monsters in the maze and was built to make the character and/or the player go insane. one of our characters kept getting trapped by a illusions. So over all this is going to be hard to get thru alive or withou a mental condition.
Straw_Man 12-18-07, 01:02 AM	Binder. Delver Nar makes you immune to Wis damage. And you can do it with a one level dip with Impoved Binding iirc.
Shadowshimmer 12-18-07, 07:39 AM	How about playing a Minotaur? Don't have the documentation in front of me but don't they get a whole bunch of pluses for being in any kind of maze/labyrinth? A 27th level Minotaur fighter/barbarian has the potential to be a formidable character and the maze bonuses will help you at least have a good chance of surviving.
Etarnon 12-18-07, 08:42 AM	Thanks for an easy one. My advice, and exactly what I would do: Bail on this game. No lie. This is DM vs players. I'm not buying his dungeon, or philosophy. No way would i join that game, and I've put up with a LOT of crappy DMs, running even crappier games, for the sake of friendship. If my best gaming buddy of over 14 years came to me with this idea, I'd tell him, "no way am I wasting my time rolling a character for that."
toucanbuzz 12-18-07, 11:09 AM	"Made by a god so it can't be dispelled" translates from DM talk to "the DM wants complete control." Lame. Sounds like your DM wants you to walk through every trap along a preset route. At your levels, you should have access to some pretty crazy spells and abilities. True Seeing + Disintigrate should make short work of those pesky walls, and if your DM says you can't, call shenanigans. And if you're afraid of insanity, have your local sorcerer/mage stock up on Mind Blank spells (good for 24 hours). True Seeing should also work on those illusions, so none of this getting trapped by illusions. D&D is designed so there's a counter to everything, and once the DM starts shooting you down to tell you that you must do it his way, you're in trouble! As for a 27th level character, criminy. The whole point of starting at low levels is to get familiar with your character and his abilities. Good luck on keeping track of all the character can do.
Dusken 12-18-07, 12:56 PM	Seriously, find a copy of Grimtooth's Dungeon of Doom and give it to him. At least you will be entertained in death. Or run the scenario that comes with the colossal red dragon figure if he wants death by dragon. I don't play games that begin with epic level characters. I'll join one that started less than epic and has some history, but never first out the gate. This sounds bad, starts bad, will end bad. Try to talk the other players into rolling up 3rd level characters and hand them with a copy of Barrow of the Forgotten King to your GM.
RobbyPants 12-19-07, 11:08 AM	"Made by a god so it can't be dispelled" translates from DM talk to "the DM wants complete control." Lame. Sounds like your DM wants you to walk through every trap along a preset route. At your levels, you should have access to some pretty crazy spells and abilities. True Seeing + Disintigrate should make short work of those pesky walls, and if your DM says you can't, call shenanigans. And if you're afraid of insanity, have your local sorcerer/mage stock up on Mind Blank spells (good for 24 hours). True Seeing should also work on those illusions, so none of this getting trapped by illusions. D&D is designed so there's a counter to everything, and once the DM starts shooting you down to tell you that you must do it his way, you're in trouble! No kidding. If any legitimate means of bypassing the maze fails to work, give your DM a toy train and a train conductor's hat. :P Is there any reason you can't simply dimension door (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionDoor.htm) past the maze portions of the maze? I'm not sure you need line of effect to your destination, based on the "if you end up in a solid body" clause of the spell. Failing that, you could probably go ethereal, disintegrate the walls of force, and go straight through the dungeon. If you run out of disintegrates, use a rope trick to rest and get them all back. For that matter, ask the DM if the floor or ceiling are covered with walls of force. If not, you could easily bypass the walls by going through one of those. If your DM insists on thwarting every single spell available to a 27th level caster, suggest he remake his maze for 3rd level adventurers. ;)
trapspringer 12-19-07, 03:47 PM	Props to Shadowshimmer. Minotaur for the win. Natural Cunning (Ex) Although minotaurs are not especially intelligent, they possess innate cunning and logical ability. This gives them immunity to maze spells, prevents them from ever becoming lost, and enables them to track enemies. Further, they are never caught flat-footed. (underline courtesy of trapspringer)
Cifer 12-19-07, 04:18 PM	@Trapspringer Now that's an idea I've got to admit I wouldn't have had...
elondir 12-19-07, 04:47 PM	Ugh, a maze usually plays out like "I go right. Right, right, turn around, right, right, right..." for a long time. One session and it's done. Or just disintegrate the walls, cast passwall or phase door, or go ethereal (unless it's treated with gorgon blood, preventing ethereal passage). Better yet, 27th level is CRAZY powerful. Remember that just because the BBEG is in a maze doesn't mean you have to go through the maze. You can fly over it, disintegrate the ceiling and drop Greater Ruin on the guy before he can get into range. Try scry-and-die tactics. Just avoid the dungeon as much as possible. If he's underground, fill the whole dungeon with water, lava, acid, or whatever you feel like. Greater Teleport to the sanctum. If your DM won't let you, make an epic spell that gets the job done. You could even come up with an epic spell that does something like that. How about a minotaur variant of the warhulk/hulking hurler? Just rip the whole complex out of the ground and hurl it into space.
Sedgewick 01-04-08, 02:39 AM	hmm perhaps some type of blind char with scent, tremorsense blindfight etc? druid? wild shape bat with string attached to party? druid says close your eyes and follow me, screw those mirrors, illusions what not, bat sonar etc, should lead you down the right path. mortal way to bypass this god made magic mind boggling maze without having to worry about dispel dc's etc
metalmayhem80110 01-04-08, 04:20 AM	Yeah, the minotaur idea sounds cool. What I would consider is going minotaur cleric. You can buff yourself WAY up and have it last a LONG time with extend/divine metamagic feats. Plus, you will get up to like 8th or 9th level spells even AFTER the LA!
Zendu 01-04-08, 07:55 AM	Char-op reader skimming other boards here! Although the minitaur idea is a good one, the first rule of Char-op is to NEVER LOSE CASTER LEVELS. This goes double for an epic game, so I suggest a druid. Since the ability is only ex you can just shape shift into a minitaur and have the same results with much better spells.
JerichoAlar 01-04-08, 11:45 AM	what feat/ability lets a druid do monstrous humanoids?
CryoSilver 01-04-08, 12:45 PM	The interesting things aboutmazes with one entrance and one exit, is that if you put you hand on a wall as soon as you enter and keeping walking with your hand on the wall, you WILL eventually find the exit, because you're just tracing the perimeter. Just make sure you do it as SOON as you enter, or else it's worthless.
Fitz10019 01-04-08, 01:37 PM	The interesting things aboutmazes with one entrance and one exit, is that if you put you hand on a wall as soon as you enter and keeping walking with your hand on the wall, you WILL eventually find the exit, because you're just tracing the perimeter. Just make sure you do it as SOON as you enter, or else it's worthless. This assumes the exit is on the same level as the entrance, and isn't a hole/ramp/stairs somewhere in the middle.
Gimmak_Sawtooth 01-04-08, 02:35 PM	you are just one small bag full of chalk sticks, a stick and some rope away from ruining this maze. chalk on stick shile walking through the maze to mark where you've been (hold it against the wall) mark forks with arrows. other than that go with whatever you like for a class.
Elsydeon 01-04-08, 03:58 PM	Run. If you won't run, you're going to find any attempts to circumvent or 'beat' the maze unsuccessful, so don't try. Make something with high saves that can become dragon immune and suffer through the ride.
LordTarmos 01-04-08, 05:25 PM	Run. If you won't run, you're going to find any attempts to circumvent or 'beat' the maze unsuccessful, so don't try. Make something with high saves that can become dragon immune and suffer through the ride. Why run he gave this guy most of the information he needs to totally bone this dungeon Find out what the other characters are playing then coordinate with them to prepare for the dungeon First prep a character against a red dragon easy Drow sorcerer specializing in conjuration or a druid Feats Rapid spell to cast summoning as free action metamagic specialization in conjuration to take rapid spell to cost of zero levels (the feat that adds +4 to str and con on all summoned creatures) with ability to cast Energy immunity "fire"(24 hour spell total immunity 1 energy type) Next ring of freedom of movement (cannot be grappled) Ring of mighty summons all summoned creature get max hitpoints. Drow will have decent spell resistance against any spells Dragon will undoubtedly have true seeing so other spells need to be protection types spells and spells to get rid of side effects from other members of the group example Berserk characters (wand of calm emotion) also some high level summon spells I suggest summon Elemental Monolith I think in complete arcane If dragon in the air have it fight a air monolith should take its eyes from the group and a long while to kill If dragon is on the ground as I think it will be in a cave have it grapple with a Earth monolith monoliths strenth should well exceed dragons have the rest of the group help to kill dragon hold hand out to ine side touch the wall and follow it stay on the path Have a cleric cast find the path (spell) and lead you through the mazehow very you like this is easy. Just save your big spells for the dragon At 27 you should have plenty of money to buy anything you need set yourself up with bracers to pevent energy damage, acid, cold, electrical, and sonic. Barrier spells and interference spells are nice to keep enemies away from you. Sorry ran out of time But you get the idea think your way through it, it is easy when they give you this much info. and also make sure you take some other metamagic feats for extra damage
LordTarmos 01-04-08, 05:30 PM	also make sure you and your party beef up your will saves example(cloak of resistance +5) wisdom enhancement +6 etc, if he allows it one of the best items is a Belt of magnificence +6 also as a sorcerer or druid you will already have high save progression but still increase it as much as possible he has already told you that you will need this. with statement about sanity.:)
Elsydeon 01-04-08, 06:07 PM	I wasn't telling the character to run, I was telling the player to run. This sounds like a bad game in the works.
Saiyamantis 01-04-08, 07:52 PM	Build a ghost psion, and disintegrate your way through the maze. When you find dragon, use your draining touch to drain its Dexterity, followed by its Wisdom ,then possess the unconscious paralyzed body with your malevolence. Thanks to this strategy, my equipment list now includes "Paragon Tarrasque body."
1red13 01-04-08, 10:31 PM	I would gather that the the whole wall fiasco with godly permananced walls of force and mirrors and such is to prevent people from blasting through the walls or passing through them magically. That being said it sure doesn't prevent you from using true seeing, xray, tremorsense or some other detection. The minotaur character is an imaginative thought though i suspect it may be short circuited by a railroady dm. Taking a creature type that is immune to fire would be a good first step. I know i wouldn't be too keen on starting the adventure to make an initial save and find out my character creation was all for naught. Especially at twenty seventh level. That's either a long time character thrown under the bus in one fell swoop or a lot of character creation time gone to waste.
happy_fuzzy 01-04-08, 10:32 PM	what feat/ability lets a druid do monstrous humanoids? A dip into master of many forms PrC , complete adventurer.
UltimateReality 01-04-08, 10:38 PM	The base for the dungeon is a labyrinth of permanently invisible walls covered by mirrors protected my walls of force covered by illusions to make them look like walls. And all this is made by a god so it cant be permanently despelled. Pfft. What a n00b -- he didn't even have the dungeon located 10,000 ft above the earth's surface? (That handles dispel nicely...) Or on another plane that's inhospitable to your party's survival? When my DM did this, all the walls -- and floors -- were of force. And invisible. Other than the advice already given, my only suggestion is a lot of beer -- for the players, not the characters. :P You'll need something to entertain yourselves with after you die in the first 20 minutes. :D
doozie 01-04-08, 10:55 PM	Ask the DM if he will allow you to play David Bowie. Roll up a caster. In the first session, encourage your party members to sing along with you "what kind of magic spell to use?" Then regardless of whatever spell is actually appropriate, cast Otto's Irresistable Dance. On everything. While singing "dance magic dance!" Don't forget to proclaim yourself the Goblin King. Your DM wants an insane game. Play along. Play along so hard that he never wants an insane game ever again.
Rabid Dire Wolverine 01-04-08, 11:52 PM	Are the characters supposed to be afraid for their sanity, or the players? Seriously, at level 27 you have a myriad of ways to get by whatever he throws at you, any of the previous strategies will do. I'm going to guess your DM won't let you use them, spelling out a poor game, but even then the whole adventure just turns into a single fight with a dragon. Whoop-dee-doo.
monai75 01-05-08, 12:39 AM	Dude there is a reason it is called 1st level, Because you start from there! You call yourself an "inexperienced player" and you are about to play in a game where you needs a character who is level 27?! I am not even gonna touch this wall of mirrored illusions. This DM needs some help. Does he happen to be a bit "inexperienced" as well? Sounds like whatever he is up to I agree with almost everyone o this thread. I would not give a session like that the time of day. I do however find it interesting that everyone I am reading seems to know, or have gamed with people I can only call Ridiculous DM's. I guess we have all been there. One of the First rules of D+D you want to learn about and start practicing early on, Stay away from guys and games like this. Start off where you are supposed to. Get together with a group of other friends who want to play as well. Read the books and do it up! You are going to have your fair share of interestingly strange people who you do not even want to be around, but you give them a chance anyway due to the fact that we all know how wrong it is to judge someones gaming abilities by the way they Look right? Either way as a long time gamer and a pretty choosy DM/player I would have to say just from hearing the premises of the game, I would leave this one alone.
John Paul Stoddard 01-05-08, 12:53 AM	My advice Make camp and just stay in the same place. No mater what your Dm say, just reply My character Starts a fire to cook lunch, My character sits down and reads a book, My character Makes his/her bed and takes a nap.
Senevri 01-05-08, 09:41 AM	Ug. at 27th level, an ordinary Great Wyrm Red is a speedbump. Use Prying Eyes, Greater to find a path through the labyrinth, then timestop, teleport to the correct location, Assay SR+Dimension Lock, Maw of Chaos, and finally put the critter in a Prismatic Sphere. He probably won't fit in a force cube, but if he extrudes outside the sphere, well that's just too bad for him. Oh, and just for kicks, use Limited Wish to give him -7 to his next save.
LordTarmos 01-07-08, 05:23 PM	I wasn't telling the character to run, I was telling the player to run. This sounds like a bad game in the works. How can you say this, it could be interesting, depending on the dm. He sounds like he is telling eveeryione up front what to expect, I think thats pretty cool of a dm. It is when he does this after you start the game where you look for a new dm, the dm you look out for does not roll dice and makes crap up as you go along, this guy is doing it from the beginning which is ok. But unless he does something awesome, I have to say it is not very imaginative, and could mean a very weak game, I would not waste my time on it unless he has shown considerable dm'ing skills in the past, because it sounds easy and lame, let's face it at 27th level dragons are a push over unless the dm adds to them.
Elsydeon 01-07-08, 09:26 PM	His telling everyone what to expect reeks of arrogance to me. He thinks he's 'beaten' the group. And when he finds out that isn't true he'll Deus Ex Screw you until he has beaten you. Just my personal experience.
twad 01-08-08, 12:21 AM	Thanks for an easy one. My advice, and exactly what I would do: Bail on this game. No lie. This is DM vs players. I'm not buying his dungeon, or philosophy. No way would i join that game, and I've put up with a LOT of crappy DMs, running even crappier games, for the sake of friendship. If my best gaming buddy of over 14 years came to me with this idea, I'd tell him, "no way am I wasting my time rolling a character for that." Yes, follow this advice.
Sereetha 01-08-08, 12:33 PM	I agree with the DM vs. PLAYER idea. If that is the case where he is going to allow you to be 27th, I would suggest focusing on the cleric. That way when you are generating from Epic {20th+} tell your DM that everything you have done has been in the name of your God. In the conversation ask him if your God will allow you to speak and act on his behalf when the demand for his presence runs too high. If so, ask him if you can have 1 rank for Proxy. Dieties and Demi-Gods page 54. You may get lucky and the DM will say yes. This will give you Demi-God status. If he is experienced he should not have a problem considering before 27th lvl, most players are seeking accension or immortality anyways. Good-Luck