Post/Author/DateTime

Post

honeynuggets 02-11-04, 03:14 PM

I was having a hell of a time figuring out Spot checks for Encounter Distance and it turns out I was "blending" information from Spot vs Hide checks which are totally different. Here is my current understanding so that other people can search for this info. Thanks to Jindl who explained it to me. So here it is. Normally, you don't need to make a Spot check to see someone unless the target has made a Hide check. That is to say, both parties automatically Spot each other at the maximum visible range of the terrain you are in. The determination of the distance between two parties in an encounter uses the Spot check to determine distance even though niether party may be Hiding. This is a special use of the Spot skill and that is why you have to roll it even though the others may not be Hiding. So, the Spot checks being rolled in the Msg Board duels are different from the Spots checks used to determine the distance between random encounters. If there are no obstructions at all and adequate lighting then you automatically both Spot each other as soon as there is a Line of Sight between you. This happens indoors or on perfectly flat and unobstructed terrain. As for the maximum distance possible I still don't know that. If you are in Grasslands...as soon as two parties are within 660 feet of each other (the maximum distance roll from the table in the DMG 3.0 which is used again in the DM Screen 3.5) they can Feasibly see each other. The roll to determine the actual random distance is to account for variables like: luck, distractions, and line of sight since there are random obstacles. If the result is 480 feet then that is the first opportunity that obstructions, luck, distractions, etc. allow a Line of sight between the parties. Then, you use the base DC 20 and apply the modifiers from the table to it. The Encounter Distance Spot modifiers are Not the same as the Spot vs Hide modifiers. The Encounter Distance Spot modifier does Not include the infamous -1/10 ft modifier. The -1/10 ft distance Spot modifier Only applies to Spot vs Hide checks. The Only modifiers for the Encounter Distance Spot check are those listed on the table 3.2 in the DMG AND the Special Hide modifiers in the paragraph above the table. YES, there are Special Hide modifiers that Only apply to Encounter Distance Spot checks! They are: 1. Base DC is no longer 20 but rather DC 25+Hide skill 2. Hiding parties can only move at half speed and take a -2 Spot penalty. So if we go back to the example of the Guard on the Castle wall and the Elven Ranger casually strolling in the vast Grasslands surrounding the Castle here is how it would play out. 1. Grassland > roll 6d6 x 20 ft results in 480 feet at which time the Ranger casually strolls out from behind a wagon on his way to the market and they can both see each other. 2. They both attempt a DC 20 (base DC) Spot check to see each other. Modifiers from table 3.2 DMG v3.0 are the only ones applied. 3. The castle Guard is not moving so the Ranger gets a +5 penalty to his DC. We'll say it's noon so that's the only modifier. 4. The Ranger makes a DC 25 Spot check 5. The Guard makes a DC 20 Spot check 6. If they both fail then neither notice the other and they can try again if their distance halves at some point. There is no other mention of being able to Retry besides this so that suggests that random obstacles block the Line of sight once again after that window of opportunity. Now, if the Elven Ranger had been a PC trying to sneak up to the castle using his Hide skill then it would play out like this. 1. Grassland > roll 6d6 x 20 ft results in 480 feet at which time the Ranger happens to creep out from behind a wagon on his way to the castle and they can both feasibly see each other. 2. The castle Guard is not moving so the Ranger gets a +5 penalty to his Spot DC. The Elven Ranger also takes a -2 penalty to his Spot check since the act of Hiding interferes with his Spotting for the purposes of determining Encounter Distance Spot checks ONLY. We'll say it's midnight on a moonlit night. So table 3.2 grants the Elven Ranger a +5 bonus to his spot check for having low light vision. 3. The Ranger is moving so the Guard doesn't take a stillness penalty to his Spot DC. The Guard takes a moonlight penalty of +5 to his Spot DC. The Guard's base DC for his Spot check also rises to DC 25+8 (Ranger's Hide skill) since the Ranger is trying to Hide. 4. The Ranger needs to make a 22 on his Spot check 5. The Guard needs to make a 38 on his Spot check Voila!! The rules finally make sense!