Entice Gift - bleeping useless? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Entice Gift - bleeping useless? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ShadowDragon8685
02-19-06, 02:11 AM So, I was building a 10th level Wizard, and I have the Spell Compendium. As this allows me access to a whole crapload of spells, I've been taking advantage of it. One spell in particular, however, irks me, because it's a lot more useless than I thought.

Entice Gift
Enchantment [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Bard 2, Greed 2, Sorc/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard
Range: Close (25 ft. +5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One Creature
Duration: 1 Round
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You enchant a creature so that it feels suddenly compelled to give you what it is holding when you cast this spell. On the creature's next action, it moves as close to you as it can get in a single round and offers you the object as a standard action. This spell allows you to act out of turn and accept the "gift" if the creature reaches you to hand you the object (assuming you have a free hand and can accept it). The subject defends itself normally and acts as it wishes on subsequent rounds, including attempted to get the object back if desired. If the subject is prevented from doing as the spell compels, the spell has no effect. For example, if the subject is paralyzed and cannot move or drop the item, nothing happens.

Okay, really... What's the bloody point? Sure, it might disarm someone in combat, but as long as I'm using Will Save spells, I'd rather just hit them with a Phantasmal Killer and stand a chance of slaying them outright. I was hoping this would be a more social spell, like Suggestion, only limited to 'convincing' people that I'd appreciate a gift of whatever they're holding...

I donno, I'm on a rant, maybe... Tweak it, lose it, or use it as-is?
Shaggy_Shaggs
02-19-06, 02:19 AM It has more use in combat than just disarming someone.
On the creature's next action, it moves as close to you as it can get in a single round and offers you the object as a standard action.
Not as close to you as it wants to be, not as close to you as its better judgement suggests, but as close to you as it can get.

Work your positioning carefully and use the spell to force an enemy to approach you through a gauntlet of several allies' threatened spaces, so they can butcher it with AoOs. :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: And if it survives, hey, it gives up the item too. :devil: Sounds handy to me. :cool:

Edit: Oh, and as a bonus, there's the fact that they're not using their round fighting back. ;)
OneSidedDice
02-19-06, 02:42 AM I could see a few uses for it.

You could use it as a readied action to disrupt an enemy's spell with a material component. Ready to cast when he reaches for his component pouch, so he'll have to walk over and hand you the pouch, or at least the component, if he fails the save. (Granted using a Will-dependent spell on a spellcaster is not a great idea, but it's an option).

It also has possibilities for thievery. Pay someone with a sack of gold, then have him turn right around and hand it back. Follow up with invisibility.

There are also many times when causing an opponent to give you what he's holding can be useful. If you need to recover an item from a bad guy, or if he's holding a hostage, for example.
Shaggy_Shaggs
02-19-06, 02:51 AM Hostage rescue :thinks: ... that is an outstanding idea. And here when I play goodguys in hostage situations I've just tried to work out some way to knock out or kill the hostage-taker before he can react. :nonono:
ressurrector
02-19-06, 02:53 AM I can think of some evil ways to use that if silent/stilled, mainly for RPing though. :D
BardicEvil
02-19-06, 03:03 AM My, that's a shiny item that will trigger all those explosives positioned to bring down the castle... gimme.

Disarming is one use, but what about that cure crit potion the BBEG was planning on drinking to extend the encounter. Or any staves, wands, etc.

Is the bad guy's MO to swoop in, grab the object of the quest, taunt the players and leave? Interrupt that plan and then kick him int he shins for the fun of it. :)

Evil use? Can't get that pesky artifact that you need to put all your evil plans in motion? Wait for the good guys to get it, then have them turn it over. What are they going to do, gank their own rogue to keep him from handing it over?

I can see lots of uses for this spell, it just requires knowing when and how to use it.
ShadowDragon8685
02-19-06, 03:55 AM Well...

Okay, some of those are funny, especially the "Flurry of AoOs" trick. :)

I have a friend with 20-foot reach, Combat Reflexes, six arms, wielding a longspear, a tower shield, and three miselanious pointy things. Arranged right, that could make them walk through a quisanart. :)

However, I just wish it was a bit more like Suggestion. I mean, when you hear "Entice Gift", it sounds like you can convince the nobleman to give the flower or gift he was going to give to the princess to you, and have him not think later (as in, six seconds later), that he didn't mean to give it to you. As it is now, he might give it to you, look funny, then draw his sword, calling you a witch.
OneSidedDice
02-19-06, 04:29 AM See if your DM will let you research, or allow into the game, a spell that's 2-3 levels higher that produces that exact effect.
Daergal_the_Black
02-19-06, 05:23 AM See if your DM will let you research, or allow into the game, a spell that's 2-3 levels higher that produces that exact effect.

Whereas I was thinking of asking for a 1st-level spell that just makes them walk over to me, through all the AOOs. Then (if they live through the flurry of free attacks) I just use Suggestion on them the next round so that they "want" to give me their sword.
Shaggy_Shaggs
02-19-06, 05:44 AM I've been thinking it over, and you might be able to do the gauntlet trick solo (or make it even nastier doing it with a group).

Prebuff with Expeditious Retreat ahead of time so you can keep your distance (forcing the enticed target to use up all his movement to walk straight to you, no going around). Use a couple Summon Monster spells (preferably high level spells to call multiple slightly lower-level monsters) and order 'em to line up and ready actions to attack the guy when he gets within reach. Then hit him with your Entice Gift, and each of your pets will get two swings at him, one for the ready action and one for AoO when he leaves threatened space. :devil: And of course your party members, if you have them, can set up more attacks the same way. Hmmm... Dual Strike and Double Hit with readied action and AoO waiting... :plotting:
ShadowDragon8685
02-19-06, 06:50 AM Sounds more like "Entice Suicide" the way you guys put it. :)

I just wanted a way to get peeps to give me their stuffz.
Shaggy_Shaggs
02-19-06, 07:05 AM Sounds more like "Entice Suicide" the way you guys put it. :)
I like shredding things in amusing, unexpected ways.
I just wanted a way to get peeps to give me their stuffz.
Well, there's always Dominate Person. Or if you want to be really low level about it, Charm Person will set 'em friendly and from Friendly it's only a DC 20 Diplomacy check to get to Helpful... you could just ask.
Haml337
02-19-06, 08:56 AM A bard spell? Well... if this can be used for hostage rescue, you know I'm going to use it for more mundane means. I'm going to go into a tavern find the guy with the hottest gal in his lap and cast away.

Who needs a wingman when you cast spells?
Twisted Puppy
02-19-06, 11:23 AM The use of the spell IS narrow. It will only be memorized when the BBEG has a specific target in mind. It's best used when the BBEG wants a weapon the characters have. It has the added advantage of putting the target in range of touch range spells, while they have handed over their weapon or shield.

I've had BBEGs use the spell, and I think it's fine as is. OneSidedDice' suggestion of spell research sounds reasonable if you want to modify the spell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ShadowDragon8685 02-19-06, 02:11 AM	So, I was building a 10th level Wizard, and I have the Spell Compendium. As this allows me access to a whole crapload of spells, I've been taking advantage of it. One spell in particular, however, irks me, because it's a lot more useless than I thought. Entice Gift Enchantment [Mind-Affecting] Level: Bard 2, Greed 2, Sorc/Wiz 2 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 Standard Range: Close (25 ft. +5 ft./2 levels) Target: One Creature Duration: 1 Round Saving Throw: Will Negates Spell Resistance: Yes You enchant a creature so that it feels suddenly compelled to give you what it is holding when you cast this spell. On the creature's next action, it moves as close to you as it can get in a single round and offers you the object as a standard action. This spell allows you to act out of turn and accept the "gift" if the creature reaches you to hand you the object (assuming you have a free hand and can accept it). The subject defends itself normally and acts as it wishes on subsequent rounds, including attempted to get the object back if desired. If the subject is prevented from doing as the spell compels, the spell has no effect. For example, if the subject is paralyzed and cannot move or drop the item, nothing happens. Okay, really... What's the bloody point? Sure, it might disarm someone in combat, but as long as I'm using Will Save spells, I'd rather just hit them with a Phantasmal Killer and stand a chance of slaying them outright. I was hoping this would be a more social spell, like Suggestion, only limited to 'convincing' people that I'd appreciate a gift of whatever they're holding... I donno, I'm on a rant, maybe... Tweak it, lose it, or use it as-is?
Shaggy_Shaggs 02-19-06, 02:19 AM	It has more use in combat than just disarming someone. On the creature's next action, it moves as close to you as it can get in a single round and offers you the object as a standard action. Not as close to you as it wants to be, not as close to you as its better judgement suggests, but as close to you as it can get. Work your positioning carefully and use the spell to force an enemy to approach you through a gauntlet of several allies' threatened spaces, so they can butcher it with AoOs. :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: And if it survives, hey, it gives up the item too. :devil: Sounds handy to me. :cool: Edit: Oh, and as a bonus, there's the fact that they're not using their round fighting back. ;)
OneSidedDice 02-19-06, 02:42 AM	I could see a few uses for it. You could use it as a readied action to disrupt an enemy's spell with a material component. Ready to cast when he reaches for his component pouch, so he'll have to walk over and hand you the pouch, or at least the component, if he fails the save. (Granted using a Will-dependent spell on a spellcaster is not a great idea, but it's an option). It also has possibilities for thievery. Pay someone with a sack of gold, then have him turn right around and hand it back. Follow up with invisibility. There are also many times when causing an opponent to give you what he's holding can be useful. If you need to recover an item from a bad guy, or if he's holding a hostage, for example.
Shaggy_Shaggs 02-19-06, 02:51 AM	Hostage rescue :thinks: ... that is an outstanding idea. And here when I play goodguys in hostage situations I've just tried to work out some way to knock out or kill the hostage-taker before he can react. :nonono:
ressurrector 02-19-06, 02:53 AM	I can think of some evil ways to use that if silent/stilled, mainly for RPing though. :D
BardicEvil 02-19-06, 03:03 AM	My, that's a shiny item that will trigger all those explosives positioned to bring down the castle... gimme. Disarming is one use, but what about that cure crit potion the BBEG was planning on drinking to extend the encounter. Or any staves, wands, etc. Is the bad guy's MO to swoop in, grab the object of the quest, taunt the players and leave? Interrupt that plan and then kick him int he shins for the fun of it. :) Evil use? Can't get that pesky artifact that you need to put all your evil plans in motion? Wait for the good guys to get it, then have them turn it over. What are they going to do, gank their own rogue to keep him from handing it over? I can see lots of uses for this spell, it just requires knowing when and how to use it.
ShadowDragon8685 02-19-06, 03:55 AM	Well... Okay, some of those are funny, especially the "Flurry of AoOs" trick. :) I have a friend with 20-foot reach, Combat Reflexes, six arms, wielding a longspear, a tower shield, and three miselanious pointy things. Arranged right, that could make them walk through a quisanart. :) However, I just wish it was a bit more like Suggestion. I mean, when you hear "Entice Gift", it sounds like you can convince the nobleman to give the flower or gift he was going to give to the princess to you, and have him not think later (as in, six seconds later), that he didn't mean to give it to you. As it is now, he might give it to you, look funny, then draw his sword, calling you a witch.
OneSidedDice 02-19-06, 04:29 AM	See if your DM will let you research, or allow into the game, a spell that's 2-3 levels higher that produces that exact effect.
Daergal_the_Black 02-19-06, 05:23 AM	See if your DM will let you research, or allow into the game, a spell that's 2-3 levels higher that produces that exact effect. Whereas I was thinking of asking for a 1st-level spell that just makes them walk over to me, through all the AOOs. Then (if they live through the flurry of free attacks) I just use Suggestion on them the next round so that they "want" to give me their sword.
Shaggy_Shaggs 02-19-06, 05:44 AM	I've been thinking it over, and you might be able to do the gauntlet trick solo (or make it even nastier doing it with a group). Prebuff with Expeditious Retreat ahead of time so you can keep your distance (forcing the enticed target to use up all his movement to walk straight to you, no going around). Use a couple Summon Monster spells (preferably high level spells to call multiple slightly lower-level monsters) and order 'em to line up and ready actions to attack the guy when he gets within reach. Then hit him with your Entice Gift, and each of your pets will get two swings at him, one for the ready action and one for AoO when he leaves threatened space. :devil: And of course your party members, if you have them, can set up more attacks the same way. Hmmm... Dual Strike and Double Hit with readied action and AoO waiting... :plotting:
ShadowDragon8685 02-19-06, 06:50 AM	Sounds more like "Entice Suicide" the way you guys put it. :) I just wanted a way to get peeps to give me their stuffz.
Shaggy_Shaggs 02-19-06, 07:05 AM	Sounds more like "Entice Suicide" the way you guys put it. :) I like shredding things in amusing, unexpected ways. I just wanted a way to get peeps to give me their stuffz. Well, there's always Dominate Person. Or if you want to be really low level about it, Charm Person will set 'em friendly and from Friendly it's only a DC 20 Diplomacy check to get to Helpful... you could just ask.
Haml337 02-19-06, 08:56 AM	A bard spell? Well... if this can be used for hostage rescue, you know I'm going to use it for more mundane means. I'm going to go into a tavern find the guy with the hottest gal in his lap and cast away. Who needs a wingman when you cast spells?
Twisted Puppy 02-19-06, 11:23 AM	The use of the spell IS narrow. It will only be memorized when the BBEG has a specific target in mind. It's best used when the BBEG wants a weapon the characters have. It has the added advantage of putting the target in range of touch range spells, while they have handed over their weapon or shield. I've had BBEGs use the spell, and I think it's fine as is. OneSidedDice' suggestion of spell research sounds reasonable if you want to modify the spell.