epic feat and damage reduction questions. [Archive] - Wizards Community

epic feat and damage reduction questions. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Asmodeous
10-20-04, 08:39 AM Got a couple of questions that are stumbling our gaming group. Would like other peoples opinions and advise please!

1). Stacking metamagic feats and improved metamagic. Improved metamagic reduces the spell level by one of any metamagic feat to a minimum of +1 spell level. With a feat such as extend, which is only +1 spell level. But, if I decide to doulbe extend a spell, raising the effective spell level to +2, then does improved metamagic work and reduce the overall spell level back to +1?

2). Epic weapons and damage reduction. With magic damage reduction such as for example, a suit of armor with the invulnerablility enhancement, (+3 modifier 5/magic damage reduction). is it assumed that an epic weapon can automatically bypass magic damage reduction seeing it is really, just a stronger magic weapon? Also, are there any other damage reductions that epic weapons automatically bypass such as admantite, alignment, cold iron, silver etc?
Doomhawk
10-20-04, 12:39 PM 1) I believe you're using the old version of Improved Metamagic. Look in the 3.5 DMG, it describes the way that Improved Metamagic works now (it's much more balanced than it was before). With the new feat, a double-extended spell will indeed be +1 level (although under the old feat it would still be +2).

2) An epic weapon is by definition a magic weapon - an epic weapon is weapon with an enhancement bonus of +6 or greater, a magic weapon is a weapon with an enhancement bonus. Since all weapons with enhancement bonus +6 or greater have an enhancement bonus, all epic weapons are magic weapons. However, epic weapons do not bypass anything on their own. (Of course, a +6 Holy sword still bypasses /good reduction.)
Asmodeous
10-21-04, 12:14 AM 1). we are using the 3.5 srd for the epic handbook as our reference for epic rules. its so confusing trying to work out what version of all these books, srds and errata's is the latest. thanks for the heads up.

2). That's pretty much how we thought regarding the magic damage reduction. But the various books we have are not very clear when it comes to damage reduction and epic weapons. would be very handy if you knew what book/errata/srd/version this info is found it, because we couldn't find it.
sparkster4242
10-21-04, 01:51 AM 1a) under 3.5 rules, you cannot apply Extend Spell twice, tho it has been suggested that you should be allowed to if you take the feat more than once.

1b) Improved Metamagic (3.5) reduces the total level-adjustment of the modified spell by 1, so a double-extended spell would have a total +3 level-adjustment (2 + 2 - 1 = +3).

1c) you seem to be thinking of the 3.0 version of Improved Metamagic - it reduced the level-adjusments of _all_ your metamagic feats by 1, to a minimum of +1. in that case, a double-extended spell would have a +2 to slot-level, because the level-adjustment of Extend Spell has already been reduced to the minimum possible (((2 - 1) + (2 - 1)) = +2).

2) any epic weapon which can bypass DR X/Epic can also bypass DR X/magic, because such a weapon would have a +6 enhancement bonus. a +1 (or greater) enhancement bonus is needed to bypass DR X/magic, and +6 certainly qualifies.

2b) there isnt really anything special about epic weapons that lets them cut through DR. Some DR is based on enhancement bonus, some on material, alignment, etc... - an epic weapon still has to have the right alignment, material, or enhancment bonus to penetrate a creature's DR.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Asmodeous 10-20-04, 08:39 AM	Got a couple of questions that are stumbling our gaming group. Would like other peoples opinions and advise please! 1). Stacking metamagic feats and improved metamagic. Improved metamagic reduces the spell level by one of any metamagic feat to a minimum of +1 spell level. With a feat such as extend, which is only +1 spell level. But, if I decide to doulbe extend a spell, raising the effective spell level to +2, then does improved metamagic work and reduce the overall spell level back to +1? 2). Epic weapons and damage reduction. With magic damage reduction such as for example, a suit of armor with the invulnerablility enhancement, (+3 modifier 5/magic damage reduction). is it assumed that an epic weapon can automatically bypass magic damage reduction seeing it is really, just a stronger magic weapon? Also, are there any other damage reductions that epic weapons automatically bypass such as admantite, alignment, cold iron, silver etc?
Doomhawk 10-20-04, 12:39 PM	1) I believe you're using the old version of Improved Metamagic. Look in the 3.5 DMG, it describes the way that Improved Metamagic works now (it's much more balanced than it was before). With the new feat, a double-extended spell will indeed be +1 level (although under the old feat it would still be +2). 2) An epic weapon is by definition a magic weapon - an epic weapon is weapon with an enhancement bonus of +6 or greater, a magic weapon is a weapon with an enhancement bonus. Since all weapons with enhancement bonus +6 or greater have an enhancement bonus, all epic weapons are magic weapons. However, epic weapons do not bypass anything on their own. (Of course, a +6 Holy sword still bypasses /good reduction.)
Asmodeous 10-21-04, 12:14 AM	1). we are using the 3.5 srd for the epic handbook as our reference for epic rules. its so confusing trying to work out what version of all these books, srds and errata's is the latest. thanks for the heads up. 2). That's pretty much how we thought regarding the magic damage reduction. But the various books we have are not very clear when it comes to damage reduction and epic weapons. would be very handy if you knew what book/errata/srd/version this info is found it, because we couldn't find it.
sparkster4242 10-21-04, 01:51 AM	1a) under 3.5 rules, you cannot apply Extend Spell twice, tho it has been suggested that you should be allowed to if you take the feat more than once. 1b) Improved Metamagic (3.5) reduces the total level-adjustment of the modified spell by 1, so a double-extended spell would have a total +3 level-adjustment (2 + 2 - 1 = +3). 1c) you seem to be thinking of the 3.0 version of Improved Metamagic - it reduced the level-adjusments of _all_ your metamagic feats by 1, to a minimum of +1. in that case, a double-extended spell would have a +2 to slot-level, because the level-adjustment of Extend Spell has already been reduced to the minimum possible (((2 - 1) + (2 - 1)) = +2). 2) any epic weapon which can bypass DR X/Epic can also bypass DR X/magic, because such a weapon would have a +6 enhancement bonus. a +1 (or greater) enhancement bonus is needed to bypass DR X/magic, and +6 certainly qualifies. 2b) there isnt really anything special about epic weapons that lets them cut through DR. Some DR is based on enhancement bonus, some on material, alignment, etc... - an epic weapon still has to have the right alignment, material, or enhancment bonus to penetrate a creature's DR.