epic feats [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

epic feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Infernostrider
01-12-08, 05:03 PM heya, i'm a DM with a druid player and i was looking for stuff she might be able to use, she's new so i showed her to SRD 3.5

now i'm looking through the epic feats, and although it'll take ages for us to even get close to a level of what you'd need for what i'm gonna ask, but i'm just really curious!!!!!

using Dragon Wildshape and the appropriate size increasing feats for wildshape, would you be able to wildshape into any great wyrm? and is it really usefull to be able to wildshape into any monster the MM's can provide?

thanks!
Avatar of Kokusho
01-13-08, 07:01 AM Dragon Wild Shape is no longer an epic feat, though the epic version, IIRC, allows you access to the supernatural abilities.

I tell you that if you want to get the most out of Wild Shape, Master of Many Forms is probably your best bet. You get access to half the epic feats' forms through the class.
BigGus
01-13-08, 07:30 AM heya, i'm a DM with a druid player and i was looking for stuff she might be able to use, she's new so i showed her to SRD 3.5

now i'm looking through the epic feats, and although it'll take ages for us to even get close to a level of what you'd need for what i'm gonna ask, but i'm just really curious!!!!!

using Dragon Wildshape and the appropriate size increasing feats for wildshape, would you be able to wildshape into any great wyrm? and is it really usefull to be able to wildshape into any monster the MM's can provide?

thanks!

Yes, you can wildshape into any great wyrm, except the epic dragons (prismatic and force) from the ELH (listed under epic monsters in the SRD), because they're colossal+ by great wyrm level. And a good thing too, since the prismatic great wyrm's CR is 66. That'd be a bargain of an epic feat...

Is it useful? Yes, but the highest CR of any colossal great wyrm that I know of is 27 for a gold dragon, and you have to be level 27 to take dragon wild shape. So you have to as powerful yourself as the dragon is before you can WS into it; you gain in versatility but not in power.
BigGus
01-13-08, 07:32 AM Dragon Wild Shape is no longer an epic feat, though the epic version, IIRC, allows you access to the supernatural abilities.

This is news to me! Where was the nonepic DWS published?
Fatalis_902
01-13-08, 07:44 AM This is news to me! Where was the nonepic DWS published?

Draconimicon. It allows the Druid to WS into a small or medium dragon, and grants the supernatural abilities, but not any spell-like, of the dragon. Somewhat useful, but the size limit is a bit of a turn off.
BigGus
01-13-08, 08:16 AM Ah, thanks.
Infernostrider
01-13-08, 09:05 AM it doesn't really matter, we only use core books (new players, relatively new DM), and will eventually step up to a bit form the SRD 3.5, but nothing else.

thanks though
BrianMc223
01-13-08, 03:50 PM Wouldn't you have to to have as many levels as the dragon has hit dice? That makes it MUCH less useful.

Also, Dragon Wildshape in the ELH states only the MM1 dragons as options for your form, and Dragon Wildshape in the Draconomicon specifically limits your size to medium. So thats why you can't turn into an Epic Dragon. (You could probably get a DM to change that text in ELH, because the HD already make it so restrictive.)
Infernostrider
01-14-08, 11:39 AM i AM the DM in this group bud ;) but yea it does sound reasonable, to limit what you can change into to a similar power level...isn't that the general wild shape limit already? need to be the same level as the creature has hit dice?
BigGus
01-15-08, 07:38 AM i AM the DM in this group bud ;) but yea it does sound reasonable, to limit what you can change into to a similar power level...isn't that the general wild shape limit already? need to be the same level as the creature has hit dice?

Yeah, you're right, I'd forgotten that. So actually you have to be 36th level before you can WS into your first great wyrm (white), and 41st level before you can become all of them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Infernostrider 01-12-08, 05:03 PM	heya, i'm a DM with a druid player and i was looking for stuff she might be able to use, she's new so i showed her to SRD 3.5 now i'm looking through the epic feats, and although it'll take ages for us to even get close to a level of what you'd need for what i'm gonna ask, but i'm just really curious!!!!! using Dragon Wildshape and the appropriate size increasing feats for wildshape, would you be able to wildshape into any great wyrm? and is it really usefull to be able to wildshape into any monster the MM's can provide? thanks!
Avatar of Kokusho 01-13-08, 07:01 AM	Dragon Wild Shape is no longer an epic feat, though the epic version, IIRC, allows you access to the supernatural abilities. I tell you that if you want to get the most out of Wild Shape, Master of Many Forms is probably your best bet. You get access to half the epic feats' forms through the class.
BigGus 01-13-08, 07:30 AM	heya, i'm a DM with a druid player and i was looking for stuff she might be able to use, she's new so i showed her to SRD 3.5 now i'm looking through the epic feats, and although it'll take ages for us to even get close to a level of what you'd need for what i'm gonna ask, but i'm just really curious!!!!! using Dragon Wildshape and the appropriate size increasing feats for wildshape, would you be able to wildshape into any great wyrm? and is it really usefull to be able to wildshape into any monster the MM's can provide? thanks! Yes, you can wildshape into any great wyrm, except the epic dragons (prismatic and force) from the ELH (listed under epic monsters in the SRD), because they're colossal+ by great wyrm level. And a good thing too, since the prismatic great wyrm's CR is 66. That'd be a bargain of an epic feat... Is it useful? Yes, but the highest CR of any colossal great wyrm that I know of is 27 for a gold dragon, and you have to be level 27 to take dragon wild shape. So you have to as powerful yourself as the dragon is before you can WS into it; you gain in versatility but not in power.
BigGus 01-13-08, 07:32 AM	Dragon Wild Shape is no longer an epic feat, though the epic version, IIRC, allows you access to the supernatural abilities. This is news to me! Where was the nonepic DWS published?
Fatalis_902 01-13-08, 07:44 AM	This is news to me! Where was the nonepic DWS published? Draconimicon. It allows the Druid to WS into a small or medium dragon, and grants the supernatural abilities, but not any spell-like, of the dragon. Somewhat useful, but the size limit is a bit of a turn off.
BigGus 01-13-08, 08:16 AM	Ah, thanks.
Infernostrider 01-13-08, 09:05 AM	it doesn't really matter, we only use core books (new players, relatively new DM), and will eventually step up to a bit form the SRD 3.5, but nothing else. thanks though
BrianMc223 01-13-08, 03:50 PM	Wouldn't you have to to have as many levels as the dragon has hit dice? That makes it MUCH less useful. Also, Dragon Wildshape in the ELH states only the MM1 dragons as options for your form, and Dragon Wildshape in the Draconomicon specifically limits your size to medium. So thats why you can't turn into an Epic Dragon. (You could probably get a DM to change that text in ELH, because the HD already make it so restrictive.)
Infernostrider 01-14-08, 11:39 AM	i AM the DM in this group bud ;) but yea it does sound reasonable, to limit what you can change into to a similar power level...isn't that the general wild shape limit already? need to be the same level as the creature has hit dice?
BigGus 01-15-08, 07:38 AM	i AM the DM in this group bud ;) but yea it does sound reasonable, to limit what you can change into to a similar power level...isn't that the general wild shape limit already? need to be the same level as the creature has hit dice? Yeah, you're right, I'd forgotten that. So actually you have to be 36th level before you can WS into your first great wyrm (white), and 41st level before you can become all of them.