Ethics issue. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ethics issue. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
B4_life
06-10-07, 02:16 PM I'm a level 7 halfling rogue (real original, i know), and me and my party managed to get marshall (basically, sergeants in our campain) in the army of the local Baron. We are currently in a campaign to annihilate a rebellion (their lord decided to side with another country's king).

At the last game session, we were ordered (along with a big detachment of knights) to go and destroy a small village, and to kill everyone in it, including women and children. I thought it was unnaceptable, but since i couldnt convince our lord not to do it, i rode ahead of the main column and told the local inhabitants to flee. When we arrived, we kille dthe defenders (a couple of peasants with pitchforks, basically) and destroyed everything, but fortunately the civilians had fled.

Now, this means i was in direct violation of orders, and if im caught doing it again, i will probably be in direct antagonism with the other characters of my party. should I, for the good of the story, stop doing what i'm doing?

Oh, and onnly for the fun factor: our party is composed of a centaur, a half orc, a dwarf and a halfling (me). pretty weird sight in a human world, and im having some difficulty giving orders (i'm what, three feet tall?).
Optimized_Commoner
06-10-07, 02:32 PM I'm a level 7 halfling rogue (real original, i know)

There are favoured classes for a reason, some combinations just work.

Now, this means i was in direct violation of orders, and if im caught doing it again, i will probably be in direct antagonism with the other characters of my party. should I, for the good of the story, stop doing what i'm doing?

Oh, and onnly for the fun factor: our party is composed of a centaur, a half orc, a dwarf and a halfling (me). pretty weird sight in a human world, and im having some difficulty giving orders (i'm what, three feet tall?).

Talk to your DM and the other Players Out of Character. Find out why the DM is including lawful evil missions in the game and how the other players feel about your character violating orders.

This problem needs discussion with people who know more than us internet folk. I can't give you the answers you need, for those you must look to your group.
stefan_mi
06-10-07, 02:43 PM Just curious -- what's your rogue's alignment?

I think it's fine -- you are playing your character the way you see him reacting to this situation, right? Maybe your character would steal money from a rich man, but might leave an anonymous gift on the doorstep of a poor family... and killing helpless non combatants just isn't his style.

should I, for the good of the story, stop doing what i'm doing?

I think your PC is a part of the story... and what he decides to do when faced with an ethical dilemma like whether or not to allow innocents to be killed is as important as whatever the DM has planned.
Krusk
06-10-07, 02:49 PM That honestly sounds like some very good roleplay, I just wanted to congradulate you on a job well done.

Don't change anything "For the sake of the campaign" you might just be altering how things happen. So long as your DM is half decent you should have a very interesting campaign. now instead of just mindlessly doing what the generals say. you get to battle the corrupt noble, save the peasents, and lead an uprising. OR you get to flee from the overpowering warlord, who is constantly sending assassins after you, while you look for the one magic item that can destroy him once and for all.
Zaver
06-10-07, 03:18 PM I think your PC is a part of the story... and what he decides to do when faced with an ethical dilemma like whether or not to allow innocents to be killed is as important as whatever the DM has planned.

Seconded. D&D isn't a play that the DM has written and it's up to the players to play their parts. If you're ever faced with a choice that you feel your character would go against what is expected, then do it. Unless you game with a bunch of jerks it shouldn't even be a problem for you to do what you think you have to.
Paladin_Hiroshi
06-20-07, 01:58 PM I am guessing your alignment is good, possibly chaotic...

But this is not 'ruining the DM's campaign' but awesome roleplaying. Your character is having dilemas about killing and murdering innocents, but also needs to serve his lord.

This is the sort of situation that DM's love to have occur naturally without any railroading or anything!

I think you should continue and then, if caught, chances are your party, (depending on your alignment), will step in to help you. Maybe other soldiers will? And thus begins the revoloution!!!!!!!!! :D Keep at it ;)
Ack
06-20-07, 03:21 PM This reminds me of a novel I was reading where the main character (this is a sci-fi story) was ordered to raze a village which had managed to perform some minor act of sabotage to an invading force.

So she had a shuttle land in the middle of the village, whereupon she sternly told the village head exactly what her orders were. Then she left. After having the entire force do a complete equipment check ("We don't want anything going wrong that might force us to disobey orders.") which took several hours, she then led the strike on the village and flattened it.

Strangely enough, all the inhabitants had fled.

Funny, that. :D
Matthew77
06-20-07, 04:20 PM If your alignment was LN, LE or NE, I could see this being a bit of an ethical dilemma.

Otherwise, I think you did exactly what your character would have done.
Ayra
06-20-07, 05:38 PM You're a rogue, next time you disobey orders, do it so they won't find out it was you. I am, like the rest, curious of your alignment but I am of the opinion that in this case, even an evil aligned person could have problems with razing the town and its villagers. Being evil doesn't mean you mindlessly slaughter innocents, it can mean a lot of things. You may just limit yourself to casting spells of the evil descriptor, for instance. You may even decide to only kill (or torture) political leaders you don't agree with, regardless of what they have done. This doesn't mean you have to kill innocent villagers if razing their town was enough.

Anyway, I think you did a great job and should definitely keep it up. Subtly try to talk to your party about it, ask them what they think of the killings. If you feel like their honest answers are opposing your views then maybe you could try and convince them if they are good RPers, try and stick with them for the sole purpose of saving lives (which would be awesome!) or decide to leave the party if you want to cooperate with them.

The saving lives thing would basically mean that you join any mission, but in order to save lives you act as some sort of a spy, or found an underground organization set to prevent the lives of innocents to be killed the Lord you are serving now.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
B4_life 06-10-07, 02:16 PM	I'm a level 7 halfling rogue (real original, i know), and me and my party managed to get marshall (basically, sergeants in our campain) in the army of the local Baron. We are currently in a campaign to annihilate a rebellion (their lord decided to side with another country's king). At the last game session, we were ordered (along with a big detachment of knights) to go and destroy a small village, and to kill everyone in it, including women and children. I thought it was unnaceptable, but since i couldnt convince our lord not to do it, i rode ahead of the main column and told the local inhabitants to flee. When we arrived, we kille dthe defenders (a couple of peasants with pitchforks, basically) and destroyed everything, but fortunately the civilians had fled. Now, this means i was in direct violation of orders, and if im caught doing it again, i will probably be in direct antagonism with the other characters of my party. should I, for the good of the story, stop doing what i'm doing? Oh, and onnly for the fun factor: our party is composed of a centaur, a half orc, a dwarf and a halfling (me). pretty weird sight in a human world, and im having some difficulty giving orders (i'm what, three feet tall?).
Optimized_Commoner 06-10-07, 02:32 PM	I'm a level 7 halfling rogue (real original, i know) There are favoured classes for a reason, some combinations just work. Now, this means i was in direct violation of orders, and if im caught doing it again, i will probably be in direct antagonism with the other characters of my party. should I, for the good of the story, stop doing what i'm doing? Oh, and onnly for the fun factor: our party is composed of a centaur, a half orc, a dwarf and a halfling (me). pretty weird sight in a human world, and im having some difficulty giving orders (i'm what, three feet tall?). Talk to your DM and the other Players Out of Character. Find out why the DM is including lawful evil missions in the game and how the other players feel about your character violating orders. This problem needs discussion with people who know more than us internet folk. I can't give you the answers you need, for those you must look to your group.
stefan_mi 06-10-07, 02:43 PM	Just curious -- what's your rogue's alignment? I think it's fine -- you are playing your character the way you see him reacting to this situation, right? Maybe your character would steal money from a rich man, but might leave an anonymous gift on the doorstep of a poor family... and killing helpless non combatants just isn't his style. should I, for the good of the story, stop doing what i'm doing? I think your PC is a part of the story... and what he decides to do when faced with an ethical dilemma like whether or not to allow innocents to be killed is as important as whatever the DM has planned.
Krusk 06-10-07, 02:49 PM	That honestly sounds like some very good roleplay, I just wanted to congradulate you on a job well done. Don't change anything "For the sake of the campaign" you might just be altering how things happen. So long as your DM is half decent you should have a very interesting campaign. now instead of just mindlessly doing what the generals say. you get to battle the corrupt noble, save the peasents, and lead an uprising. OR you get to flee from the overpowering warlord, who is constantly sending assassins after you, while you look for the one magic item that can destroy him once and for all.
Zaver 06-10-07, 03:18 PM	I think your PC is a part of the story... and what he decides to do when faced with an ethical dilemma like whether or not to allow innocents to be killed is as important as whatever the DM has planned. Seconded. D&D isn't a play that the DM has written and it's up to the players to play their parts. If you're ever faced with a choice that you feel your character would go against what is expected, then do it. Unless you game with a bunch of jerks it shouldn't even be a problem for you to do what you think you have to.
Paladin_Hiroshi 06-20-07, 01:58 PM	I am guessing your alignment is good, possibly chaotic... But this is not 'ruining the DM's campaign' but awesome roleplaying. Your character is having dilemas about killing and murdering innocents, but also needs to serve his lord. This is the sort of situation that DM's love to have occur naturally without any railroading or anything! I think you should continue and then, if caught, chances are your party, (depending on your alignment), will step in to help you. Maybe other soldiers will? And thus begins the revoloution!!!!!!!!! :D Keep at it ;)
Ack 06-20-07, 03:21 PM	This reminds me of a novel I was reading where the main character (this is a sci-fi story) was ordered to raze a village which had managed to perform some minor act of sabotage to an invading force. So she had a shuttle land in the middle of the village, whereupon she sternly told the village head exactly what her orders were. Then she left. After having the entire force do a complete equipment check ("We don't want anything going wrong that might force us to disobey orders.") which took several hours, she then led the strike on the village and flattened it. Strangely enough, all the inhabitants had fled. Funny, that. :D
Matthew77 06-20-07, 04:20 PM	If your alignment was LN, LE or NE, I could see this being a bit of an ethical dilemma. Otherwise, I think you did exactly what your character would have done.
Ayra 06-20-07, 05:38 PM	You're a rogue, next time you disobey orders, do it so they won't find out it was you. I am, like the rest, curious of your alignment but I am of the opinion that in this case, even an evil aligned person could have problems with razing the town and its villagers. Being evil doesn't mean you mindlessly slaughter innocents, it can mean a lot of things. You may just limit yourself to casting spells of the evil descriptor, for instance. You may even decide to only kill (or torture) political leaders you don't agree with, regardless of what they have done. This doesn't mean you have to kill innocent villagers if razing their town was enough. Anyway, I think you did a great job and should definitely keep it up. Subtly try to talk to your party about it, ask them what they think of the killings. If you feel like their honest answers are opposing your views then maybe you could try and convince them if they are good RPers, try and stick with them for the sole purpose of saving lives (which would be awesome!) or decide to leave the party if you want to cooperate with them. The saving lives thing would basically mean that you join any mission, but in order to save lives you act as some sort of a spy, or found an underground organization set to prevent the lives of innocents to be killed the Lord you are serving now.