Evasion Rule Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Evasion Rule Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
teclis22
09-07-07, 04:36 PM Sorry folks if this is in the wrong forum

Aloah.

Quick question regarding Evasion.

Is it like Uncanny dodge in the sense that if you already have uncanny dodge and get it a 2nd time it becomes improved uncanny dodge ?

Example would be:

Monk with evasion. Then 2 Level in shadow dancer and gets evasion again. Does it get upgraded to improved Evasion ?

Thanks alot in advance.

Best regards

Tec
perdera
09-07-07, 04:50 PM No, Evasion + Evasion = Evasion (unless specifically noted in that classes/PrC's Evasion description)
StevenO
09-07-07, 09:23 PM The technical answer is unfortunately no unless it says otherwise. It may be a houserule but I'd allow Evasion from a PrC to stack with a base class evasion to grant improved evasion. It seems that the evasion + evasion = improved evasion is a common PrC feature in some books but is ignored in others. A second reason to allow it is to simplify things. Classes that grant evasion typically have good Reflex Saves so stacking them should get you great a great reflex save meaning you make most of your saves so the "improved" part of evasion is never an issue; with improved evasion that unexpected save failure is no longer the death sentence it could otherwise be. A DM planning on sending a Maximized Fireball into a party generally should expect an evasion character to take no damage with the rest getting singed, the problem is that 5% of the time that "guarenteed" save fails with dire consequences that could actually derail your future plans.

Making Improved Evasion reasonably accessable (having evasion as a class ability twice seems reasonable) to high Reflex characters just makes them play more consistently which it typically a good thing. The biggest downfall of Improved Evasion is when it fall on those who have poor reflex saves as it basically turns all their failed saves (which could be most of them) into standard successes. Over the range of 20 saves to a 60 dmg fireball: with improved evasion a character making 90% of their saves take 60 dmg less than the 120 they'd take without IE (vs 660 without any evasion) but a character that makes 30% of their saves takes 420 dmg with IE when they'd normally take 840 with just evasion and 1020 without any evasion.
Some_call_me_Tim
09-07-07, 10:37 PM While Steven makes a good argument, I tend not to allow things like that because it makes staying with a single class not necessary to get the cool features.

A full rogue needs to be 10th level before he can get improved evasion. With such a rule a rogue/shadowdancer would get it at 9th. That makes a two level dip very appealing. Having to wait until you're a rogue 7/shadowdancer 10 makes straight rogue look pretty darned good (at least until 10th level).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
teclis22 09-07-07, 04:36 PM	Sorry folks if this is in the wrong forum Aloah. Quick question regarding Evasion. Is it like Uncanny dodge in the sense that if you already have uncanny dodge and get it a 2nd time it becomes improved uncanny dodge ? Example would be: Monk with evasion. Then 2 Level in shadow dancer and gets evasion again. Does it get upgraded to improved Evasion ? Thanks alot in advance. Best regards Tec
perdera 09-07-07, 04:50 PM	No, Evasion + Evasion = Evasion (unless specifically noted in that classes/PrC's Evasion description)
StevenO 09-07-07, 09:23 PM	The technical answer is unfortunately no unless it says otherwise. It may be a houserule but I'd allow Evasion from a PrC to stack with a base class evasion to grant improved evasion. It seems that the evasion + evasion = improved evasion is a common PrC feature in some books but is ignored in others. A second reason to allow it is to simplify things. Classes that grant evasion typically have good Reflex Saves so stacking them should get you great a great reflex save meaning you make most of your saves so the "improved" part of evasion is never an issue; with improved evasion that unexpected save failure is no longer the death sentence it could otherwise be. A DM planning on sending a Maximized Fireball into a party generally should expect an evasion character to take no damage with the rest getting singed, the problem is that 5% of the time that "guarenteed" save fails with dire consequences that could actually derail your future plans. Making Improved Evasion reasonably accessable (having evasion as a class ability twice seems reasonable) to high Reflex characters just makes them play more consistently which it typically a good thing. The biggest downfall of Improved Evasion is when it fall on those who have poor reflex saves as it basically turns all their failed saves (which could be most of them) into standard successes. Over the range of 20 saves to a 60 dmg fireball: with improved evasion a character making 90% of their saves take 60 dmg less than the 120 they'd take without IE (vs 660 without any evasion) but a character that makes 30% of their saves takes 420 dmg with IE when they'd normally take 840 with just evasion and 1020 without any evasion.
Some_call_me_Tim 09-07-07, 10:37 PM	While Steven makes a good argument, I tend not to allow things like that because it makes staying with a single class not necessary to get the cool features. A full rogue needs to be 10th level before he can get improved evasion. With such a rule a rogue/shadowdancer would get it at 9th. That makes a two level dip very appealing. Having to wait until you're a rogue 7/shadowdancer 10 makes straight rogue look pretty darned good (at least until 10th level).